What else is there - Seriously

[eskimoeskimo]

Just to clarify I wasn't trying to say that it's no use listening to Joe Dispenza simply because he is not a PhD. I'm not hung up on credentials. Rather, I mentioned that he's a chiropractor because this is a forum built on a premise that in part says chiropractors have got it all wrong as goes chronic pain. Not that a chiropractor - or anyone else for that matter - can't have some wisdom to impart. That wasn't my point.

Regardless of his credentials, I do think he misrepresents the science and in my opinion misunderstands quantum mechanics. It's just not my cup of tea. So what?

 

[Miller]

@eskimoeskimo

You've got to start paying more attention to the message and less attention to the "packaging"

Claire Weekes, Sarno, Joe Dispenza, Mosley + whatever his name is, John Kehoe and every other mind body expert EVER are ALL SAYING THE SAME THING.

But they have to package it a little differently, add their own unique "approach" otherwise they couldn't write a book or sell a program... good luck to anyone selling a one-page book containing the 100 or so words that every single approach has in common.

Can you see that? Can you find the thread that joins all the advice you are being given. Can you challenge your brain to not take everything so literally and stop "throwing the baby out with the bath water" so to speak?

The good news is it is WAY too late for you to follow any prescriptive program or set of instructions from anyone. You are actually way beyond that intellectually now when it comes to the topic of TMS and mindbody medicine. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as you have more control over your path and the outcome.

You are one of the rare people who has to really figure this out for themselves, so that in the end you will have found your own way to end this suffering. And once you do it will be so clear to you that nobody will be able to get in your way. You won't find yourself back here saying "I had a relapse and I read Sarno again but it didn't work this time!" because you won't need the reassurance of a book or an expert. You will just know you are okay when you fall down and be able to pick yourself up on your own.

I have no idea why, and I'm sorry you aren't a book cure or a program cure. But you're not. So start working this shit out for yourself.

 

[RogueWave]

@eskimoeskimo

You've got to start paying more attention to the message and less attention to the "packaging"

Claire Weekes, Sarno, Joe Dispenza, Mosley + whatever his name is, John Kehoe and every other mind body expert EVER are ALL SAYING THE SAME THING.

But they have to package it a little differently, add their own unique "approach" otherwise they couldn't write a book or sell a program... good luck to anyone selling a one-page book containing the 100 or so words that every single approach has in common.

Can you see that? Can you find the thread that joins all the advice you are being given. Can you challenge your brain to not take everything so literally and stop "throwing the baby out with the bath water" so to speak?

The good news is it is WAY too late for you to follow any prescriptive program or set of instructions from anyone. You are actually way beyond that intellectually now when it comes to the topic of TMS and mindbody medicine. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as you have more control over your path and the outcome.

You are one of the rare people who has to really figure this out for themselves, so that in the end you will have found your own way to end this suffering. And once you do it will be so clear to you that nobody will be able to get in your way. You won't find yourself back here saying "I had a relapse and I read Sarno again but it didn't work this time!" because you won't need the reassurance of a book or an expert. You will just know you are okay when you fall down and be able to pick yourself up on your own.

I have no idea why, and I'm sorry you aren't a book cure or a program cure. But you're not. So start working this shit out for yourself.

Excellent post! And whether @eskimoeskimo realizes it or not, this is one of the reasons his/her experience is so valuable. Not just for their own healing, but there are other people who haven't posted here, yet are reading all of these posts and are in the same boat. If/when eskimo is able to at least start the healing process, it will be invaluable to anyone also having the same experience, now or in the future.

I love Wim Hof, because he is a regular guy who was stuck in a deep depression after his wife (and mother of his 4 young children), committed suicide without warning one day years ago. He tried everything from counseling, drugs, meds, drinking, religion....none of it got him anywhere. One day while walking through a park in Holland he decided to jump in an icy pond, and when he got out he felt good for the first time in years. Weird, but it worked (and incidentally, now we can understand why from a scientific perspective). He now has +25 world records and is in his 60s, and it all started from that point to literally jump in without so much analysis. He loves to say 'I never had a guru or teacher of any kind! My wisdom came from within!'

When Alan Watts would discuss philosophy with monks from China and Japan, they would often say to him 'You should come and be my student!' And he'd always reply with 'Who was Buddha's teacher?'

My favorite old Taiwanese teacher in school was like Yoda to me. He was a brilliant doctor, and I always asked a million questions. Finally one day he said to me 'You need to go and just treat patients. Make mistakes, and learn from them. Try to answer your own questions before you ask me, but for now, don't ask me anything for the next 4 months.' It worked quite well.

Sometimes when you have no other choice but to rely on yourself, you learn/grow the most.

I continue to look forward to hearing successes (even minor ones) from anyone!

 

[Idearealist]

Well doctors and surgeons and pain management and the medical industry as a whole, profit in the billions and usually cause more harm, so I'm not sure what your point is there. I disagree that his books are pseudoscience (at the very least they illustrate the possibility of humans to overcome seemingly dire diagnoses). Neither are the testimonials of real and regular people with brain tumors, lung cancer, colon cancer, and an array of diseases who got better. No one is saying that Dispenza is the only source of info. or that one needs to spend money attending his events. Just because he has a marketing plan with bells and whistles, does not invalidate the very real stories of recovery, nor does it negate the research in neuroscience. His books cost me a couple of dollars and the videos on YT are free. I don't need to travel to an exotic location for that. I'd also far rather spend time in Italy getting a vacation and a course, as opposed to being in the hospital on ketamine or in the Mayo Clinic spending 40K (like a guy I know) only to leave broke and with zero hope. If Dispenza is not your cup of tea..no worries ! All you need is Sarno at the end of the day...or Dr. Schubiner or Alan Gordon...take your pick (or all). I read many books while I was struggling and took what resonated for me and threw out what didn't. I focused on the success stories on the wiki (also free), not the naysayers. Ultimately it's a personal journey and you have to figure out what makes sense to you. Many concepts are repeated but said in different ways and from different angles. Each person receives the info differently. The core principles are all the same though and I've listed them ad nauseam in this thread. If you keep focusing on why something or someone is "wrong" or "unproven", then you are missing the entire point, which is your actual life. It's not about them or the "approach". It's about you and why your brain is creating this pain to begin with and how to unlearn the habit. In a nutshell, "you do you Boo" lol.

My point is this: BS is BS, whether it comes under the heading of allopathic medicine, alt medicine, new age healing or whatever else. His treatment of quantum physics is text-book pseudoscience. The observer effect — which seems to be the basis of his metaphysics — doesn't mean that consciousness is affecting quantum phenomena; it means that the action of measuring quantum phenomena changes its behavior. So Dispenza's premise is false — at least in the physics department. Also, Dispenza is/was a student/follower of JZ Knight - a bonafide cult leader who claims to be a conduit for an ancient 35,000-year-old being that battled Atlanteans, or whatever. I'm tempted to say you can't make this shit up, but apparently you can.

I get that books are cheap, but he does peddle all sorts of products and hosts expensive seminars and workshops. It strikes me as predatory. I'm down with literally everyone else you mentioned, and I think Claire Weekes, Abraham Low, and even wild man Wim Hof are all brilliant and helpful in their own unique ways. None of these other people make/made sweeping, unsubstantiated claims about the nature of reality, health or wellness.

Before I get voted off the island, I'll just state my final concern/criticism of Joe Dispenza and those like him: allowing pseudoscience/grifting into the TMS paradigm has the potential to put people off to it, which would be a damn shame. It seems common for people to come here desperate, disillusioned, and perhaps nearly defeated after so many failed approaches to alleviate their suffering. Analytical and empircally-oriented types might see that we're discussing people and ""theories"" that are pretty woo-y and conclude that TMS is just more of the same. I don't want that to happen. Basically, "I'm through with the woo, boo." (lol)

 

[miffybunny]

Hi @Idearealist ,

As I already said, if he is not your cup of tea that's fine. I actually just watched a testimonial of a 21 yr. old kid named Zachary, who survived a school shooting where many of his friends he grew up with were killed. His best friend commit suicide after the shooting and he was considering it himself. He goes into detail about his recovery (feeling that he was "different" and could not get better, the feeling of nothing happening and not being able to do the work etc), but he persisted and is essentially a new person with a new lease on life. The concepts they covered very much mirrored Sarno etc. but just packaged differently. Even if you don't buy into a word Dispenza says, the fact remains that people get better and overcome unreal states of disease and despair by surrendering and having self compassion and doing the emotional work. One of the requisites for this approach is having an open mind and positive outlook. So you want to dismiss Dispenza because he's woo woo or you think him a charlatan. That's totally fine but it's foolish imo to dismiss all those peoples success stories. It "strikes me as predatory" that surgeons perform unnecessary and useless surgeries like spinal fusions (check out Dr. Hanscom for that topic) or pain management doctors make a killing in ketamine clinics and getting people hooked on opiates. Ultimately there is no guru or teacher or doctor out there who can do it. Only you can liberate yourself from your self created prison. There are 2 paths. Take responsibility and the hero's journey , or criticize and blame others and stay in the victim story. It truly does come down to that. "You do you, with or without the woo, Boo".

 

[BloodMoon]

Hi @miffybunny,

I decided to read your success story, which gives a lot of information about your journey consulting medics etc., before doing TMS, and (for those who haven't read it) the following re how you recovered:

"You could call this knowledge therapy. Once you have read and amassed the knowledge, it becomes a matter of putting it into practice….changing chronic thought patterns. One must shift their focus from the physical to the psychological. This requires no money, but merely patience and persistence.

Stay with me here. We are conditioned in our society to look towards the medical community to fix what ails us. What is woefully neglected however, is the role of the MIND. All chronic pain stems from the brain but the brain is neuroplastic. More and more research is emerging about the science of the brain and its role in our overall wellbeing and healing. There is no “miracle” when you hear about people who have spontaneous remissions of diseases. The miracle lies in their own change of mindset. There is nothing mystical about it. It comes down to understanding the mind body connection and choosing your thoughts. After suffering in the depths of hell for over 6 years, I can say I am fully recovered. I can wear sneakers, sky high heels, I can walk as far as I want, and exercise… live a totally normal life. And you can to."

I think what might help 'strugglers' like me would be to hear a bit more about your journey, if you're willing to share, e.g. what a 'day in the life' of the recovering miffybunny entailed...What were the day to day 'mechanics' of how and what you did to accomplish the profound changing of your mindset? I think I read that you got help with caring for your son and are now happily re-married so they were major things that you did, but what were the daily steps you took on your 'journey'?...I know you didn't meditate, but what, concretely, did you do to change?

Quintin Crisp once said in relation to seeing a movie that was made about his life that, yes, it was his story, but it was his story with all the boring and mundane bits removed...and I think the answer lies for we 'strugglers' in the mundane process(es) that you, and others like you, went through to recover.

 

[miffybunny]

Hi @BloodMoon,

I'll try to provide an overview of the nitty gritty mechanics, if you will, but keep in mind that we have individual minds and everyone's journey will look a bit different. There was a lot of trial and error, and it wasn't a linear process at all....quite zig zaggy and a bit of a roller coaster ride at times. I persisted on this path, however, because I KNEW with every fiber of my being I was going in the right direction. I didn't have a road map but I knew which roads would take me where I did not want to go, so I avoided those pitfalls. I'll try to list here my action steps that became part of my new way of life. As you rightly point out, it was extremely banal and tedious most of the time, punctuated with occasional epiphanies and a - ha moments. Life is an endless journey and TMS recovery is part of that journey. I've shared in many posts on the wiki, the areas that I needed to address (as does everyone) but I'll try to provide more detailed examples in no particular order:

1.) After I had absorbed the education piece (read the books etc.), I just needed confirmation from an MD that my CRPS was still brain based (TMS). Dr. Schubiner confirmed it for me in a one minute call and I knew I had to do the work but I was also thrilled to do so! I was where I was....bedridden, debilitated and suicidal. You've got to start somewhere though!! I had therapy once a week with a TMS therapist. This helped me to identify the emotions I was repressing, over arching emotional themes throughout my life, and my core narrative (the story I had about myself). I had to become really honest with myself and face those ugly emotions. I learned that it didn't make me a bad person to have them or feel them. By acknowledging them and feeling them, they could get discharged and didn't need to keep taking those somatic pathways in the body as a means of expression. On a day to day basis, I would check in with my emotions (especially when symptoms were flaring because I knew they were messengers to pay attention to my inner world). I learned to set boundaries and assert myself more. I started thinking about how I really wanted to live because up until that point my life had been one of self betrayal, which turned into feeling "trapped". So I started exploring those themes. I did not journal or meditate, but I simply became more self aware.

2.) On a daily basis I became very aware and cognizant of my thoughts and behaviors (what Dr. Schubiner calls pain reprocessing). I pulled the curtain back to see what my brain was doing and I started catching myself in these negative thought patterns that were so ingrained and automatic. This took practice and effort. I would reach for better feeling thoughts but most of all more accurate thoughts. I started talking back to that inner critic voice that was endlessly trying to bring me down. It was tedious and annoying. I had to do it a thousand times a day probably. Then the behavioral part... I lived as normally as I possibly could, given my limitations, and acted "as if" I was fine, because the truth was, I was fine!!! I never spoke about my symptoms or complained about them. I took satisfaction in every little thing I did...no matter how trivial (going from bedridden to getting around in the house, doing a bit of housework...no matter how trivial). I kept challenging my fears and tolerating them by engaging in life....the banality of life. I found small ways of making myself feel more safe and calm. I used a lot of affirmations and mantras (most I made them up...like "F it", "it's just TMS', "It's just your brain", "you can't hurt yourself", "patience and persistence", "Shift focus"" you don't fool me TMS" etc. I also kept an "Evidence Sheet" where I compiled evidence for why this was just TMS and proof I was making progress. I would refer to it often especially when doubt or fear would creep in.

3.) Doubt is an insidious thing, so even though I had unwavering belief in TMS, I had many doubts about my own abilities. I wondered if I was too far gone. I had no examples of others with CRPS who got better at the time. Doubt was pervasive in my life so I had to get really specific and look at those areas of doubt and challenge those. I made the decision that if I had to be the first person to overcome CRPS than I would, and I would help others, This motivated me tremendously. I watched and read tons of success stories and testimonials in various places. I figured if other humans could do it so could I. I was not separate from the human race. I avoided support groups and the medical mill like the plague. I wasn't going to buy into my false beliefs anymore. This also ties into our false beliefs. By dismantling false beliefs and seeing my situation more accurately, my thought habits changed. When my thought habits changed to more allowing and open ones, I generated less stress and tension in the body.

4.). I took full responsibility. I created this pain and so I would uncreate it. No one was coming to save me and I was ok with that. It actually felt empowering. The pain and sensations were harmless and I no longer gave them respect or import.

5.). I practiced Outcome Independence like it was my religion lol. My life would no longer be controlled by symptoms. I did not use symptoms as my guideline. I measured and judged my days by how little the symptoms affected me. Success hinged on indifference to symptoms. I disarmed and neutralized triggers by doing everything I was scared of (very gradually with no pressure ...graded exposure). If all I did in a day was make my kids school lunches, then that was fine ( I had been bedridden for weeks so you have to start somewhere!)

6.). I stopped regretting the past and projecting into the future. I learned in therapy that, that was self abuse. They were really bad habits I had. I stopped treating myself like crap and just did my best, whatever that looked like.

7.) I looked for ways to have more fun and relaxation in my life, even if they were silly things like watching a movie or calling a friend or going to Sephora. That helped counteract the fight or flight/freeze response that had become my default state of being.

8.) I decided that my body was symbolically telling me "you can't go another step". (the pain was worst in my feet and knees...not a coincidence!) so I knew I had to make drastic practical changes. I didn't want to make my life a monument to my son's autism or stay in a lackluster marriage. I reached new levels of acceptance of myself and others (like my younger son) and didn't resist what "was". I accepted. I got help because I could not go on mentally or physically the way I had been going for over a decade any longer. I went through a divorce which was scary and stressful and drawn out, but I was at peace because I was finally being true to myself. I live much more in alignment with my own needs and values now. That has resulted in less inner conflict and cognitive dissonance and repression. I lost a ton financially, but I gained things that money can't buy....peace, love, joy, connection, meaning.

9.) In a nutshell I tried to re engage with life as normally s possible...accepting the good, the bad and the ugly and being really ok with who I am. No routines or prescriptive steps. I just lived my life but with a new state of mind and intention.

On a side note, there were MANY "setbacks" and times I would get discouraged and demoralized. I had to go through it and learned to view setback as opportunities to practice. It's simple but not easy!!

I hope this was detailed enough!

 

[BloodMoon]

@miffybunny - a big thank you! I've read your reply several times and am letting it all percolate into me.

 

[BloodMoon]

Hi @miffybunny. I awoke this morning having done a lot of 'percolating' over night and found myself with some burning questions re point 5 -- outcome independence. When, say, for instance, your knees were excruciatingly painful and you simply couldn't carry on and physically do the things you wanted to do, what did you do instead? Did you switch to something else that you could physically do despite your knees, did you go somewhere else in you head in your imagination, e.g. did you lie in your bed imagining you could walk and stand in the kitchen and make your sons' packed lunches (like a rehearsal), did you put your attention on a part of your body that didn't hurt to show your brain that because you weren't paying attention to your knees that you knew that there was nothing wrong with them and you knew what it was up to, and, if so, did any of that actually ever work at all?

I ask all this because I keep being stymied with pain in my hips and legs. I no longer ever think that the pain is due to anything other than TMS and I pay no attention to it, but in response my brain keeps, literally, flooring me with a debilitating/disabling increase in intensity of pain...When it forces me to take to my bed - often for anything from a few days to over 4 to 7 months at a time - I have endeavoured to keep going physically in other ways, e.g. I get my husband to bring me vegetables on a tray for me to prepare them for dinner...but then my brain has given me pain in my wrist and thumb, which becomes so excruciating that it feels like a truck has run over it and I simply cannot continue chopping/peeling. And when in the past I have somehow managed to keep chopping and peeling, my wrist and thumb just gets worse by then seizing up; for 4 months last year I couldn't physically move my wrist to, for example, wash the opposite armpit or brush my hair etc., with my dominant hand.

I'm not unhappy in my marriage, I'm retired and, for all intents and purposes, can and should potentially be able do whatever I like (current pandemic restrictions permitting) so I don't think the message from my brain is that I can't/shouldn't carry on with my life/circumstances as they are, but nevertheless my brain is stopping me from doing so. Any thoughts/suggestions from your own experience or in general regarding this would be gratefully received.

 

[BloodMoon]

I continue to look forward to hearing successes (even minor ones) from anyone!

Further to - and I guess connection with my post to @miffybunny above - does the following count as a bit of minor 'success' and, if so, I would be grateful for any suggestions as to how to do something in response to it (apologies that I go into a lot of detail, but I do so as I'd like other 'strugglers' like me to know that they are not alone in suffering severely) :

A few weeks ago, half asleep at night, I turned over in bed - wham! - sudden pain in my left thigh. Got up the next day - got on with life despite the pain - moved around, sat, stood, read a book, chatted with my husband, meditated, watched some telly (I'm a Brit, hence 'telly' ), listened to some music etc. By the evening - I get up from my chair and - wham!! - the pain in my thigh was suddenly absolutely @£!!%*!! excruciating...I struggle to climb the stairs to get to my bed. I then need to urinate during night, every step's excruciating to get to the bathroom (so my husband brings a commode into my bedroom for next time I "need to go"). I can't sit on the toilet or the commode properly due to the pain in my thigh; I cry out in pain - I simply can't help it. I'm a side sleeper but I find that I can only lie on my back in bed due to the pain and lying on my back makes me cough and I get very little sleep. During the daytime, I can't weight-bear or walk, but I get on with other things from my day bed - composing letters, phoning people etc. This carries on for 4 days. I bravely (got to give myself some praise here!) resist taking prescription pain killers so as not to give my brain the wrong message. It's virtually impossible to ignore the pain though because it's absolutely 'SHOUTING' at me, but I continue to try my best to do so; however, sometimes (especially when I'm try to sleep) I focus on it and observe it (which, from past experience too, helps to a certain extent when nothing else does)...

But then, at one point, it suddenly becomes all too much, too overwhelming; I'm absolutely exhausted with it all and it (the pain)/my brain breaks me. I cry, I sob, I yell and I tell my husband that I can't carry on like this, I can't take it, I've been here so many excruciating times before...With this kind of enormous intensity of pain I have always ended up being bedridden for ages (4 to 7 months at a time, on numerous occasions) over the last 23 or so years, and I want it to end and I want to end it all. I cry that I don't have a life etc., etc....I cry, I sob and I cry and I sob 'my heart out' some more for quite some time. I somehow manage to get ready for bed whilst crying and sobbing and wailing...I crawl into bed and lie very uncomfortably on my back. I eventually stop crying and then I sleep reasonably well despite the coughing and the blocked nose and headache from crying, and the intense pain...and then in the morning - voila! - the pain in my thigh is hugely better and continues to get better to the extent that, miraculously, by the next day it has virtually disappeared and I can go back to ignoring it and get on with the chores (that I am normally able to push myself to do, despite my other TMS symptoms).

So, in the light of this strange sort of 'success' - if I can call it that - I could do with some advice @RogueWave. This experience/process I went through seems to me to be the opposite of 'outcome independence'...My pain/brain shouted and screamed and shouted and it broke me and my intention to ignore the pain. I succumbed to it...but this 'failure' turned out to be a 'success' of sorts (albeit that all of my other symptoms carry on regardless of what TMS techniques I use and despite the crying and sobbing and yelling episode and my trying my utmost to ignore them and to 'get on with life'). What do you think/suggest I need to do in the light of this 'chink of light' possibly 'at the end of the tunnel'? I can't magic up a crying and sobbing session every day, but it seems that I need some kind of release mechanism. In the past, to no avail, I've tried all sorts of things...To name but a few... journalling, cold showers (Wim is great but, sadly, the cold didn't work for me), smashing plates, yelling, beating the living daylights out of some pillows with a tennis racket (before I ever had wrist pain), CBT and person centred counselling (the latter years ago, at which I spent a lot of the time crying for some inexplicable reason, which didn't bring any real or lasting relief to me or my symptoms at the time). Do I need to go for 'primal scream' sessions I wonder (even though primal scream has gone out of fashion and possibly therefore doesn't work and there is only one place in the England that does it now) or is there something simpler that I can do for myself; what do you think? I would greatly appreciate your input @RogueWave and would, of course, welcome any helpful input from others.

 

[miffybunny]

Hi @BloodMoon ,

I'll get back to you on both sets of questions later this evening !

 

[Balsa11]

@eskimoeskimo

You've got to start paying more attention to the message and less attention to the "packaging"

Claire Weekes, Sarno, Joe Dispenza, Mosley + whatever his name is, John Kehoe and every other mind body expert EVER are ALL SAYING THE SAME THING.

But they have to package it a little differently, add their own unique "approach" otherwise they couldn't write a book or sell a program... good luck to anyone selling a one-page book containing the 100 or so words that every single approach has in common.

Can you see that? Can you find the thread that joins all the advice you are being given. Can you challenge your brain to not take everything so literally and stop "throwing the baby out with the bath water" so to speak?

The good news is it is WAY too late for you to follow any prescriptive program or set of instructions from anyone. You are actually way beyond that intellectually now when it comes to the topic of TMS and mindbody medicine. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as you have more control over your path and the outcome.

You are one of the rare people who has to really figure this out for themselves, so that in the end you will have found your own way to end this suffering. And once you do it will be so clear to you that nobody will be able to get in your way. You won't find yourself back here saying "I had a relapse and I read Sarno again but it didn't work this time!" because you won't need the reassurance of a book or an expert. You will just know you are okay when you fall down and be able to pick yourself up on your own.

I have no idea why, and I'm sorry you aren't a book cure or a program cure. But you're not. So start working this shit out for yourself.

@eskimoeskimo Don't let a "not book cure", "not program cure", or "rare people" label get you down. Just believe in yourself because you can for the heck of it.

 

[Balsa11]

Further to - and I guess connection with my post to @miffybunny above - does the following count as a bit of minor 'success' and, if so, I would be grateful for any suggestions as to how to do something in response to it (apologies that I go into a lot of detail, but I do so as I'd like other 'strugglers' like me to know that they are not alone in suffering severely) :

A few weeks ago, half asleep at night, I turned over in bed - wham! - sudden pain in my left thigh. Got up the next day - got on with life despite the pain - moved around, sat, stood, read a book, chatted with my husband, meditated, watched some telly (I'm a Brit, hence 'telly' ), listened to some music etc. By the evening - I get up from my chair and - wham!! - the pain in my thigh was suddenly absolutely @£!!%*!! excruciating...I struggle to climb the stairs to get to my bed. I then need to urinate during night, every step's excruciating to get to the bathroom (so my husband brings a commode into my bedroom for next time I "need to go"). I can't sit on the toilet or the commode properly due to the pain in my thigh; I cry out in pain - I simply can't help it. I'm a side sleeper but I find that I can only lie on my back in bed due to the pain and lying on my back makes me cough and I get very little sleep. During the daytime, I can't weight-bear or walk, but I get on with other things from my day bed - composing letters, phoning people etc. This carries on for 4 days. I bravely (got to give myself some praise here!) resist taking prescription pain killers so as not to give my brain the wrong message. It's virtually impossible to ignore the pain though because it's absolutely 'SHOUTING' at me, but I continue to try my best to do so; however, sometimes (especially when I'm try to sleep) I focus on it and observe it (which, from past experience too, helps to a certain extent when nothing else does)...

But then, at one point, it suddenly becomes all too much, too overwhelming; I'm absolutely exhausted with it all and it (the pain)/my brain breaks me. I cry, I sob, I yell and I tell my husband that I can't carry on like this, I can't take it, I've been here so many excruciating times before...With this kind of enormous intensity of pain I have always ended up being bedridden for ages (4 to 7 months at a time, on numerous occasions) over the last 23 or so years, and I want it to end and I want to end it all. I cry that I don't have a life etc., etc....I cry, I sob and I cry and I sob 'my heart out' some more for quite some time. I somehow manage to get ready for bed whilst crying and sobbing and wailing...I crawl into bed and lie very uncomfortably on my back. I eventually stop crying and then I sleep reasonably well despite the coughing and the blocked nose and headache from crying, and the intense pain...and then in the morning - voila! - the pain in my thigh is hugely better and continues to get better to the extent that, miraculously, by the next day it has virtually disappeared and I can go back to ignoring it and get on with the chores (that I am normally able to push myself to do, despite my other TMS symptoms).

So, in the light of this strange sort of 'success' - if I can call it that - I could do with some advice @RogueWave. This experience/process I went through seems to me to be the opposite of 'outcome independence'...My pain/brain shouted and screamed and shouted and it broke me and my intention to ignore the pain. I succumbed to it...but this 'failure' turned out to be a 'success' of sorts (albeit that all of my other symptoms carry on regardless of what TMS techniques I use and despite the crying and sobbing and yelling episode and my trying my utmost to ignore them and to 'get on with life'). What do you think/suggest I need to do in the light of this 'chink of light' possibly 'at the end of the tunnel'? I can't magic up a crying and sobbing session every day, but it seems that I need some kind of release mechanism. In the past, to no avail, I've tried all sorts of things...To name but a few... journalling, cold showers (Wim is great but, sadly, the cold didn't work for me), smashing plates, yelling, beating the living daylights out of some pillows with a tennis racket (before I ever had wrist pain), CBT and person centred counselling (the latter years ago, at which I spent a lot of the time crying for some inexplicable reason, which didn't bring any real or lasting relief to me or my symptoms at the time). Do I need to go for 'primal scream' sessions I wonder (even though primal scream has gone out of fashion and possibly therefore doesn't work and there is only one place in the England that does it now) or is there something simpler that I can do for myself; what do you think? I would greatly appreciate your input @RogueWave and would, of course, welcome any helpful input from others.

Another relapse, chill out for a little while, improvise, adapt, overcome. If the crying helped the pain release maybe find something that helps you vent your emotions like continuing to move gently even with spasms (to help the bloodflow) etc. It's nice to be back in the swing of things, to get back to what you were doing and continue life as normal.

 

[miffybunny]

Hi @BloodMoon ,

When I was in excruciating, debilitating pain, my only job was to stay calm in the face of it. I did whatever I could within reason, and within the physical limits I had at that time. Rome is not built in a day lol! I was not yet "indifferent" to symptoms because the physical experience was so overwhelming and dominant at that point. As long as I wasn't panicking and putting my brain into flight or fight, that was already a big deal. Just getting to the bathroom was hard at that time. So little by little I just did what I could. At that time I didn't do much visualizing. I mostly stayed in the moment. Visualizing was way too big a leap at that point and it would only serve to create a stark contrast between my fantasy and my present reality. Basically it would have caused me pressure and invalidated what I was going through in that moment. Instead, I endeavored to accept the moment and choose to believe that like all moments, this was not forever. I had to believe that this was not going to be the rest of my life. If the only thing I did was organize my socks drawer, then I would take satisfaction that I completed a task despite my fear and discomfort. Gradually I did a bit more every day...but I just did what I could with no goal or pressure attached to it. I let myself off the hook essentially, which allowed my brain and nervous system to calm down. I created a general feeling of safety in my life through my thoughts and actions. There were times when it felt like absolutely nothing was happening but I knew that it would pay off and my future reality would reflect the work I was doing in the present. I kept reminding myself "I'm good", 'It's just my brain", "We will figure it out", "It will get the message eventually". I didn't go other places in my head or focus on neutral body parts at that time. For some people those hacks are helpful. I didn't really do those but sometimes I would take a deep breath.

Getting back to visualizations, I do think it can be incredibly helpful in reducing fear around triggers. It sounds to me that while you accept this is TMS, your fear level is still through the roof. I would recommend using visualizations as part of "graded exposure". Rather than imagining yourself frolicking on the beach (which is a stretch), try imagining doing a banal activity with joy and ease. Work your way up from imagining to doing more and more. This gives you practice in tolerating and challenging your fears. In my case I think replacing the negative with something rewarding (an organized sock drawer) was self reinforcing on its own. The end result satisfaction was greater than my fear. So you will need to figure out what works best for you. Imagining is always a first good step though, because it's the lowest level of exposure.

With regards to your second post, your experience does constitute a success, a mini epiphany, and a piece of evidence! Our bodily symptoms are unfelt emotions...a cry from the soul if you will. When you allowed emotions to arise and you actually felt the feeling and let them pass through, you were communicating to the brain that you could handle the emotions. In that moment you had left repression mode. The relief of that was reflected in your body. There's a big difference between freaking out over symptoms and actually feeling intense emotions. Sometimes we need to cry or write an "F You" letter to someone to get that stuck emotion out of the body. Other times we just need to be aware and let it go. There are no rules. As long as you are paying attention to your emotional world in an emotionally "competent" way (expressing them if needed verbally or in writing, simply feeling them, being aware, letting them go) then these emotions stop getting somatized and stop taking on those somatic pathways. Instead they get addressed and discharged. It renders the TMS useless and the TMS cease to heave a purpose, and thus exist. Your symptoms are temporary and so are your emotions!

 

[BloodMoon]

@miffybunny Wow! – I can’t thank you enough for taking the time and trouble to address my questions – super super helpful.

When I was in excruciating, debilitating pain, my only job was to stay calm in the face of it.

Yes, that is what I usually do too. My recent sobbing and wailing episode, I can see now, involved ‘resistance’ – I was utterly despairing that, judging from my past experience of episodes of such excruciating pain, I would be bedridden for weeks to months on end. My heart sank to my boots. I couldn't feign acceptance / nonchalance; I was resisting and despairing at the potential of yet another long confinement and disability and lack of sleep, more than at enduring the pain (albeit the pain is hard to bear)…

So, you are dead right when you say:

It sounds to me that while you accept this is TMS, your fear level is still through the roof.

Instead, I endeavored to accept the moment and choose to believe that like all moments, this was not forever. I had to believe that this was not going to be the rest of my life.

The above gives me encouragement that I’m actually doing something right because I don’t ever believe that I will remain bedbound for the rest of my life as a result of such excruciatingly painful episodes like I experienced the other week -- I guess that’s because experience has taught me that I do eventually get better from them and I believe they are TMS. (In the past, I would have been googling such things as DVT to try to establish what was going on with my thigh.) However, that said, I can see that I don’t “accept the moment” – I despair at being bedbound. I would accept being bedbound if I knew it was only going to be for a few days or even a few weeks, but I can see that I’m fearful of the curtailing of what I can physically do for months on end. Also, I don’t think about it often, but I know that I inwardly despair at the thought of having to endure these kind of episodes for the rest of my life -- even though I know that that doesn’t make sense because I do believe that they are caused by TMS, but then I guess that’s because I haven’t managed to release my other less debilitating TMS symptoms.

I kept reminding myself "I'm good", 'It's just my brain", "We will figure it out", "It will get the message eventually".

I’m going to take your advice and do the above from now on, and the following:

I would recommend using visualizations as part of "graded exposure". Rather than imagining yourself frolicking on the beach (which is a stretch), try imagining doing a banal activity with joy and ease. Work your way up from imagining to doing more and more. This gives you practice in tolerating and challenging your fears. In my case I think replacing the negative with something rewarding (an organized sock drawer) was self reinforcing on its own. The end result satisfaction was greater than my fear.

I too am a person who gets satisfaction from having an ordered socks drawer! I never thought of visualizing myself doing a banal activity with joy and ease – That makes so much more sense to do as part of a ‘graded’ recovery…After all, if one weren’t just imagining an activity but actually going to doing an activity, it wouldn’t be wise to, say, go straight to lifting the heaviest weights in a gym, when you’ve never lifted anything more than a can of baked beans before! Such a good suggestion!

In your previous post to me you wrote:

I did not use symptoms as my guideline.

Although this comment was made in a slightly different context, contemplating it has made me realise that I use my symptoms to control my graded activity; that is, I do things until the pain or other symptoms come on or at the point when I’m physically hurting too much to carry on, in other words, until they are either disabling me or at the point of being so intense that I need to lie down to reduce the pain. In the light of this, I am going to stop activities before I'm even approaching hurting a lot, because if I do that it would tell my brain what a TMS-free person’s day would feel like as I've forgotten what it's like to be symptom free. (I say that I am going to stop activities 'before I'm even approaching hurting a lot' because I actually hurt all over all the time and I wouldn't do anything at all if I didn't ignore the discomfort...I'm actually so good at not taking any conscious notice of the discomfort that it's not until I have a massage or if I've done a meditation where you systematically put your attention at what 'sensations' are going on in one section of your body at a time, that I become profoundly aware of all the discomfort.)

With regards to your second post, your experience does constitute a success, a mini epiphany, and a piece of evidence! Our bodily symptoms are unfelt emotions...a cry from the soul if you will. When you allowed emotions to arise and you actually felt the feeling and let them pass through, you were communicating to the brain that you could handle the emotions. In that moment you had left repression mode. The relief of that was reflected in your body.

So, although I thought that I was only sobbing and wailing due to my fear of weeks of confinement and, to a certain extent, the pain…I now see that I may, perhaps, have been releasing pent up emotions about other stuff (that I have no conscious idea about).

Sometimes we need to cry or write an "F You" letter to someone to get that stuck emotion out of the body. Other times we just need to be aware and let it go. There are no rules. As long as you are paying attention to your emotional world in an emotionally "competent" way (expressing them if needed verbally or in writing, simply feeling them, being aware, letting them go) then these emotions stop getting somatized and stop taking on those somatic pathways. Instead they get addressed and discharged. It renders the TMS useless and the TMS cease to heave a purpose, and thus exist. Your symptoms are temporary and so are your emotions!

I believe this is where I’m stuck – that is, in how to discharge those emotions. I think that could be the crux of the problem for me…I’ve done “F You” letters, journaling and other things suggested on the forum and in mind/body/TMS books, but the only thing I’ve had an apparent result from is from that spontaneous episode of sobbing and wailing the other week...I think I read somewhere that the Japanese do 'crying therapy', so maybe I should look into that.

Many thanks again for all your help, @miffybunny.

 

[miffybunny]

Hi @BloodMoon ,

I'm glad you found my suggestions helpful! The resistance you describe as your state of being is tied into 2 of the 5 F pitfalls (fear, frustration, focus, fighting , and fixing): frustration and fighting. When we are at war with our brain or ourselves, we perpetuate the fight or flight reaction and it keeps us stuck. The key is to be gentle with yourself and "allowing". Treat your brain , as you would a puppy... with kindness, patience and persistence.

We never bow down to symptoms or use them as a guide. They are irrelevant and simply habits. We put them in the construct of thought. The brain will do all sort of things when it comes to symptoms because it will test you and subvert you time and time again. The goal is to respond with detached curiosity "hmm that's just my brain". We challenge fears and triggers by doing as much as we can without crossing the threshold of fear and panic. If you can only walk 3 steps without fear, then that's what you do...and build up from there so your brain can adjust.

This leads me to the topic of emotions. When symptoms arise we can use them as opportunities for emotional inquiry..."that's interesting, what is this symptom trying to communicate?" Symptoms are always messengers. There's nothing you really have to "do". It's just a matter of allowing emotions to come up and giving them a voice or words, so they don't need to be expressed through the body. Just letting be there, acknowledging them and letting them know you hear them is enough. Having compassion for those emotions will help calm down the brain as well. When we let them be there, so to speak, they pass through on their own without us having to do anything. We ebb and flow with emotions all day long because we are human.

 

[Miller]

https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/why-am-i-still-in-pain-why-doesnt-it-work.8549/ (Why am I still in pain? Why doesn't it work?)

This was the clarification I needed recently

 

[tgirl]

https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/why-am-i-still-in-pain-why-doesnt-it-work.8549/ (Why am I still in pain? Why doesn't it work?)

This was the clarification I needed recently

Ok, I just read it and it’s excellent. Thanks for posting this.

 

[BloodMoon]

Hi @BloodMoon ,

I'm glad you found my suggestions helpful! The resistance you describe as your state of being is tied into 2 of the 5 F pitfalls (fear, frustration, focus, fighting , and fixing): frustration and fighting. When we are at war with our brain or ourselves, we perpetuate the fight or flight reaction and it keeps us stuck. The key is to be gentle with yourself and "allowing". Treat your brain , as you would a puppy... with kindness, patience and persistence.

We never bow down to symptoms or use them as a guide. They are irrelevant and simply habits. We put them in the construct of thought. The brain will do all sort of things when it comes to symptoms because it will test you and subvert you time and time again. The goal is to respond with detached curiosity "hmm that's just my brain". We challenge fears and triggers by doing as much as we can without crossing the threshold of fear and panic. If you can only walk 3 steps without fear, then that's what you do...and build up from there so your brain can adjust.

This leads me to the topic of emotions. When symptoms arise we can use them as opportunities for emotional inquiry..."that's interesting, what is this symptom trying to communicate?" Symptoms are always messengers. There's nothing you really have to "do". It's just a matter of allowing emotions to come up and giving them a voice or words, so they don't need to be expressed through the body. Just letting be there, acknowledging them and letting them know you hear them is enough. Having compassion for those emotions will help calm down the brain as well. When we let them be there, so to speak, they pass through on their own without us having to do anything. We ebb and flow with emotions all day long because we are human.

More for me to let percolate overnight - thank you, @miffybunny.

 

[Miller]

And this thread, even though it does get a bit contentious. Tattvamassi's replies cut through all the BS.

https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/when-i-was-13.8543/ (When I was 13)