1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this link: http://go.tmswiki.org/newprogram
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What else is there - Seriously

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by eskimoeskimo, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

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  2. RogueWave

    RogueWave Well known member

    Thanks for posting this. That is some excellent, 'to the point' advice. Abraham Low was the first person I ever read in medicine who lent no credence at all to complexes, or whatever other diagnoses were around at the time. This isn't to say that past experiences don't play a part in getting us to the point of TMS, but rather I think he realized that we can get mired in the label and prognosis that comes with them. And since you can't change the past, a lot of us can get stuck in it as an excuse for staying stuck in what is going on now, mentally and emotionally.

    When I was learning meditation from my favorite Taiwanese doctor, most of us Westerners wanted to know the next step, or the next thing to do. He'd always give us this look and say 'Do? Nothing. The body will UNdo!' Simple words, but like Tatvamassi stated, harder for analytical, type A people like me to grasp. And personally I think this is also a huge consequence of societal pressure to always achieve, do more, etc, which is yet another reason chronic pain has skyrocketed even though life is physically easier for most of us than it was even 50 years ago.

    @BloodMoon, I think @miffybunny answered that perfectly! All I can add is that I had many, many 'setbacks' during my recovery. Learning to accept whatever symptom you have in the moment can be difficult, but like anything can be done with consistent practice. I do remember several times feeling particularly awful, but dragging myself to the grocery store because I needed food, and seeing something being pushed around in a wheelchair with something incurable like severe Down Syndrome. As much as I hate to say it, it felt like a needed slap in the face. I'd immediately feel like 'why am I feeling so sorry for myself??' and suddenly I'd feel better physically and mentally. This was early on but it showed me how powerful a change of thought/attitude can be in a short amount of time.

    Also as a quick aside, 'Tatavamassi' is Sanskrit for the phrase 'That Art Thou.' It's derived from Hindu beliefs, but to go in-depth is off topic here. I talk about Alan Watts a lot because he explains Zen Buddhism and Hinduism very clearly from a Western perspective, and how their views can be used to 'let go' as Tatvamassi is talking about. So if anyone is having trouble doing this, all of Watts's lectures are on youtube. I do not want to overcomplicate the healing process any more than it already is for some of you, but if anyone is looking for a little more insight into things, it would be worth checking out. There is a 2 part lecture series on there by him called 'What Life Is About' that is pure gold.
    Balsa11, TrustIt, BloodMoon and 2 others like this.
  3. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is simply gorgeous. What a wonderful way of viewing and treating yourself kindly. ❤️
  4. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    Fabulous thread. I’m especially taken by how different my understanding is of it now as compared to the first time I read it. As I have said before in this current thread, I truly didn’t understand TMS at all back then. I thought I did but I was way off base. I see similar misunderstandings in the critical, cynical posts of people who are stuck. This is why it’s so valuable to hear different explanations, because eventually one will get through and then with time, you come to see the common thread running through them all.

    Again, the misunderstanding is evident. Tattvamassi’s posts are first class.

    Thanks @Miller for reposting these.
  5. BloodMoon

    BloodMoon Beloved Grand Eagle

    Many thanks for posting the above link @Miller. I've spent some of the day today reading all of tattvamasi's postings. I found this particularly helpful:

    "You have to sort of find the "gentle way" of doing things. Not only in regards of dealing with TMS, but in everything you do. But you can't tell people to relax like it is something they can DO. It can be learned, yes, but you can't DO it, just like you can't will yourself to fall asleep, it has to happen. You can gently make things so that you get sleepy and eventually fall asleep, but you can't DO it like you pick up a bag. The more you TRY to fall asleep, the more you obsess over it, the worse it gets. Until you get so tired that you just let it go and eventually fall asleep. But then it just happens, you see, you didn't DO it. To fall asleep requires you to fully trust the process, and that is the opposite of anxiety."

    Finding "a gentle way" ties in with what @miffybunny posted about treating your brain as if it were a puppy with...kindness and patience.

    This resonates with me as, even when I'm just lying on my day bed watching TV, I may look relaxed to others, but I've just realised that I'm not...I'm totally restless inside. It's a wonder I'm able to sleep at night, but the answer to that is that, ever since my teenage years, sleep has been a refuge for me; as tattvamasi says, it's because I totally trust the process of falling asleep.
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  6. tgirl

    tgirl Well known member

    BloodMoon, I can totally relate to you. I always look relaxed and so together, yet much of the time I’m anxious or nervous feeling inside. It’s awful.

    I read all of Tattvamassi’s posts as well and found them encouraging; there is hope in doing nothing, just letting go. I think this is where I fall short, I am always trying to fix my attitude, fix my anxiety, fix my sensations, fix my fear, fix, fix, fix. This isn’t the answer, I know this, and so many people on this site have explained it eloquently and in different ways. I promise, I will get it even though it seems to be taking me an insufferable amount of time.
    BloodMoon likes this.
  7. BloodMoon

    BloodMoon Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi tgirl,

    Before I had to stop working because of my symptoms, I used to come home and talk to my husband about the 'soap opera'-like office politics that I was having to cope with at work. And I remember that at one point, not knowing what to do to help and/or comfort me, he touched my head and said that he wished I could "take it easy in there". That was over 20 years ago and at the time I obviously knew I was tense and stressed, but I simply didn't know how to do that; I was at a complete loss as to how to profoundly "take it easy".
    I so agree! And I too am a 'fixer', and it's my downfall. Intellectually/consciously I too do 'get it', but it's like the penny's dropped on the outside, but not as yet on the inside.

    Regarding seeming to be relaxed on the outside ('chilling out' on the sofa watching TV or whatever) but not actually being relaxed on the inside, I quite coincidently just today read this (from 'In This Moment' by Strosahl and Robinson) :

    "Restless Mind
    Because your nervous system is driven by the dynamic balance between the fight-or-flight response of the SNS and the calming response of the PNS, you experience distinctly different states of mind depending upon which part of your nervous system is running the show. Restless mind is the term we use to describe the mental state when you’re under stress and the SNS is activated. As the name implies, this mode of mind is characterized by hyperactivity, restlessness, low-grade anxiety, and a mild agitation that shows up whenever you stop moving and just stay still."

    I was also reading about babies and little kids, as we know, only having a small capacity to hold in emotions and that's why they release them so often and so easily, but as we grow we're trained not to 'inappropriately' express our emotions and our capacity increases along with our physical development to hold in (and hold on to) those emotions. In relation this, I also recently read and liked the (I think quite soothing) analogy of there being an over-full cup of emotions in our heads and to just allow those syrupy emotions to slowly and gently flow over the edge and down the sides of the cup.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
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  8. Drew

    Drew Peer Supporter

    @tgirl as @Hillbilly points put abs has before u ever thought of leaving all this behind? I was the best actually when I was away from all forums and doubt about health last year I started doubting a lot and ended up back here. If u really get the message from Steve o a if hot @Hillbilly and the top commenters here they are all saying to get back to life. I’m trying and struggling too cause life is the opposite of what I want it to be. I don’t see everyone talking much about that only a few people. But life stressors change us our personalities, then those personality traits stress us more. I was always super confident until the perfect life storms happen now I don’t think I am anymore. And I have a life where I’m desperately trying to achieve things so I can see kinda why my body never relaxes cause my mind never does either. But also coming to forums reminds me even more of my symptoms. Just a thought.
  9. tgirl

    tgirl Well known member

    Hi Drew, I know what you mean about logging onto forums and not just going out and living your life. I definitely go out and live my life, but with a certain amount of anxiety, so I find I need reassurance that I’m ok. I figure maybe someone will say something in a way that will change everything for me, but if I’m honest with myself I’ve absorbed many concepts from some excellent posts on this site and probably have all the knowledge I need. But, again it comes back to reassurance seeking, it keeps you hooked like a drug. I think this is the area maybe you and I have to look at closely. Why don’t we believe that we know enough to let this all go? Is it that we don’t trust ourselves and our own bodies? I do think that at some point reassurance seeking can be counterproductive, but boy it can be difficult to stop.

    You’ve mentioned that you are ‘desperately trying to achieve things’, so maybe you are putting too much pressure on yourself right now. Don’t try to force things or situations and maybe your body and mind will relax more.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
  10. Drew

    Drew Peer Supporter

    Like I 100 % agree haha. We both know it all almost could coach another person on the concepts now but then a hard flare up happens symptoms (the nerve ones we both have the same happen) and it’s like ok back to TMS forum or anxiety videos for reassurance. Rather than just reassuring ourselves.

    it’s tough cause I have notice people mention to go after what makes u happy abs everything that makes me happy atm is something I have to work very very hard for abs put pressure on myself for. For eg: I am actor I would love to work on a film but it requires auditions and callbacks and getting picked so much stress and anxiety etc. so mayb this is out safe place.

    But I think someone here told me once that something outside is scary to us or we don’t like which makes us keep coming back.

    plus the people I have talked to always tell me to go live life and be indifferent to symptoms which after years now becomes really frustrating cause I hve had days without em so when they come back all hope crumbles.

    also the personality stuff resonates like the amount of pressure I put on myself is rediculous but I am very ambitious wanna achieve big things so I don’t know how to not.

    maybe that’s what I need to work on and not the sympotms like everyone here says.

    but as always easy to tell people that I hve nerve issues than “ I hate where I am
    At in life in terms of every aspect from work to relationships to u name it.

    it’s easier to use the excuse I have nerve pain than hey I’m just exhausted with life lol
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  11. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    I've struggled with this from the beginning. There is a lot of new age woo tossed around on this site and it has always made it difficult for me to accept TMS. I'm forever worried that it's just more of the same. Same with Sarno's reliance on Freud. When I look back at Healing Back Pain now I can't believe I ever thought it seemed scientific.
  12. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    I don't think this is in the cards for me, and I can't endure this for another 14 years on the off chance that it might be
  13. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

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  14. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    It probably won't surprise you to know that I had the opposite reaction to @tattvamassi's posts. I feel the same as @Buckeye apparently did.

    The way s/he sounds to me: 'You just don't get it, the truth is right in front of you and you just don't get it, but I get it. I understand the truth and I'm telling it to you. If you get angry at me telling you the truth that's even more evidence that what I'm saying is the truth. So let go. Just let go and accept that I know the truth and then maybe eventually you'll see the light.'
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2021
  15. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    This is hell
  16. Sita

    Sita Well known member

    Eskimoeskimo, how was your experience with meditation? Did you try it for shorter periods of time?

    Take care.
    Balsa11 likes this.
  17. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    Also a good reminder to cut out consuming negative news headlines etc. online
  18. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    Would you stand up for yourself in other life situations?
  19. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    Reminds me of that wonderful acronym
    KISS- Keep It Simple, Silly!
  20. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    It's not going well, I just become more aware of the buzzing in my ears, the pounding of my heart, and the pain in my neck. I know one is supposed to practice allowing these things but I just get more and more anxious.

    You take care too, thanks

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