What else is there - Seriously

[TrustIt]

Here is one transformation, Robert, for dr. Joe. This story spoke to me, I can relate. Less than 5 min.

if i may post one more of the dispenza testamonials. it covers so much and our bodies are so incredible. again, you can binge watch these on youtube on his channel.

success stories are the most encouraging and supportive thing i do for myself!

 

[Sita]

Gretchen's story is amazing!

I used to lift weights for many years but stopped about one and 1/2 years ago. I did it at home not at the gym, still have all I need here for doing it. Recently I got this crazy idea to start lifting again and to get stronger. I don't want to be skinny anymore or have abs, just to get stronger, that's all. I'm so out of shape now but I started small a few weeks ago by doing just a few squats and some stretching every other day for about 10 min/session. Feels so good. I'll increase gradually.

Thanks for posting this, Trustit. It helps me stay motivated.

 

[miffybunny]

Great post Miffybunny. You mentioned personality traits and there is something about the traits of TMS sufferers that perplexes me. As far as being a people pleaser or a goodist, I feel I might be the opposite, and due to my ruminating nature I have come up with a possible reason for this. I’m wondering if you or others reading this have an opinion. It’s occurred to me that I might keep myself out of situations where I have to do excessive ‘nice’ things for others or have to be overly responsible. It’s almost as though I possess the opposite characteristics (some of them, anyway) of the typical TMSer, but the reason might be that I actively avoid these situations. Confrontation is not my strong point. I know this issue isn’t highly important, and one can certainly have TMS possessing one trait only, but I do think about it. I suppose this could be construed as my looking for reasons I don’t fit the model, but really it’s more of an observation. Hopefully this makes sense.

I agree with everything @plum wrote but I just wanted to add a couple more angles to this topic:

1.) As @plum astutely points out, it can be a trap looking for reason why you're "different" from other humans with chronic pain (their symptoms are different, I've had it longer, they didn't have surgery like me...bla bla bla...I've heard them all). Don't fall into that trap.

2.) Personality traits, like adverse childhood events (trauma) simply put a person at higher risk for developing TMS. It is only one piece of the puzzle and circumstantial evidence. These are also nuanced categories. Some people have terrible abuse in childhood for ex. (neglect, physical, sexual) and others have more subtle trauma that is like death of a million paper cuts (growing up with an ill parent, the death of a parent, competitive siblings, a narcissistic mom, high expectations ) etc. All of that can lead to cumulative stress and internal pressure. Add the personality type to the mix, and the brain is bound to go into fight or flight eventually. Another piece of the circumstantial evidence puzzle is adulthood stressors and daily life stressors (doing a job you despise, a bad marriage, etc.)

3.) Getting back to specific personality traits, everything you describe @tgirl, of being non confrontational and avoidant fits the profile. When we don't assert ourselves and our needs, when we don't set boundaries that align with our core values, we are essentially betraying ourselves. When we worry about "rocking the boat" or "ruffling feathers", we are subconsciously putting others' needs and values above our own. That ties into people pleasing...caring more about others than we do ourselves. It is a form of self betrayal that leads to incredible emotional repression (rage) and internal pressure. Simply put, it's exhausting!!! The underlying core belief is "I'm not worthy" ("I don't deserve certain things") ...basically I'm not good enough to even take up space in this world. That is the core falsely held belief and it shows up a ton in TMS sufferers. It almost always stems from childhood and some kind of message that we internalized. The message may have been "don't disturb the waters" if you grew up with stressed out parents who may have had their own problems. In that example a child learns to hold things in and not bother their parents for fear of rejection or punishment.

 

[Duggit]

tgirl said:
↑

[T]here is something about the traits of TMS suffers that perplexes me. As far as being a people pleaser or a goodist, I feel I might be the opposite . . . . I’m wondering if you or others reading this have an opinion. It’s occurred to me that I might keep myself out of situations where I have to do excessive ‘nice’ things for others or have to be overly responsible. It’s almost as though I possess the opposite characteristics (some of them, anyway) of the typical TMSer, but the reason might be that I actively avoid these situations. Confrontation is not my strong point. . . . I suppose this could be construed as my looking for reasons I don’t fit the model . . . .
​

My opinion, tgirl, is that you "fit the model" exactly. I will explain by referring to an interview that Alan Gordon did with Laura Seago (of the Curable app) on her "like mind like body" podcast. The interview is titled We're All Just A Bundle of Neural Pathways.

You said you avoid situations where you "have to do excessive 'nice' things for others or have to be overly responsible," and this is because "[c]onfrontation is not my strong point." Here is what Alan Gordon said in the interview about neural pathway pain, which is the same thing as Sarno called TMS and TMS equivalents: "[E]veryone who develops neural pathway pain by definition on some primitive level doesn't feel entirely safe in the world. Maybe it's something as simple as learning early on that certain emotions were not OK. So when those emotions come up, your brain is like 'danger!' Or maybe you grow up in an environment where intimacy wasn't OK. So anytime you feel close to someone . . . danger. Or maybe you grew up where confrontation was scary. Whatever it is, there's something where on a primitive level you don't feel all the way safe." (I added the emphasis.)

The interviewer then asked: "So it might not be immediately obvious what's happening and what the connection is?"
Gordon responded: "Exactly. And that's one of the things that we're doing with patients--targeting what it is that their brain is perceiving as dangerous, and then we're trying to teach their brain that this thing that they learned was dangerous is actually safe."

In response to a question about the role of fear in chronic pain, Gordon said this: "I don't even look at the pain as something to stamp out. I look at it more as a barometer for how safe the primitive brain feels. It's just the body and the brain's way of letting us know that the primitive brain feels unsafe. Pain is a danger signal, and it's the fear and the preoccupation around the pain that determines whether or not this danger signal stays activated or shuts off. So one of the things we want to do is we want to target whatever it is that the brain is perceiving is dangerous - whether it's certain emotions, whether it's intimacy, whether it's confrontation, whether it's chairs . . . (people with back pain actually start to see chairs as dangerous) . . . ." (Again, I added the emphasis.)

The full podcast interview, where Gordon further explains his treatment approach, is available on iTunes or Google Podcasts. Of course, his approach is well laid out in his new Pain Recovery Program available on this website, but the podcast interview adds useful overall perspective (or so I think, anyway).

 

[TrustIt]

I agree with everything @plum wrote but I just wanted to add a couple more angles to this topic:

1.) As @plum astutely points out, it can be a trap looking for reason why you're "different" from other humans with chronic pain (their symptoms are different, I've had it longer, they didn't have surgery like me...bla bla bla...I've heard them all). Don't fall into that trap.

2.) Personality traits, like adverse childhood events (trauma) simply put a person at higher risk for developing TMS. It is only one piece of the puzzle and circumstantial evidence. These are also nuanced categories. Some people have terrible abuse in childhood for ex. (neglect, physical, sexual) and others have more subtle trauma that is like death of a million paper cuts (growing up with an ill parent, the death of a parent, competitive siblings, a narcissistic mom, high expectations ) etc. All of that can lead to cumulative stress and internal pressure. Add the personality type to the mix, and the brain is bound to go into fight or flight eventually. Another piece of the circumstantial evidence puzzle is adulthood stressors and daily life stressors (doing a job you despise, a bad marriage, etc.)

3.) Getting back to specific personality traits, everything you describe @tgirl, of being non confrontational and avoidant fits the profile. When we don't assert ourselves and our needs, when we don't set boundaries that align with our core values, we are essentially betraying ourselves. When we worry about "rocking the boat" or "ruffling feathers", we are subconsciously putting others' needs and values above our own. That ties into people pleasing...caring more about others than we do ourselves. It is a form of self betrayal that leads to incredible emotional repression (rage) and internal pressure. Simply put, it's exhausting!!! The underlying core belief is "I'm not worthy" ("I don't deserve certain things") ...basically I'm not good enough to even take up space in this world. That is the core falsely held belief and it shows up a ton in TMS sufferers. It almost always stems from childhood and some kind of message that we internalized. The message may have been "don't disturb the waters" if you grew up with stressed out parents who may have had their own problems. In that example a child learns to hold things in and not bother their parents for fear of rejection or punishment.

Something profound hit me a couple of days ago that was very insightful in evaluating my self-worth and how that is related to my symptoms. On the surface, I thought of myself as ok in the self-esteem department. Then I began thinking through my relationships, I was astounded (and completely unconscious of all of it) at the judgement and criticism I have of myself. So much regret began to surface as I thought about all my lifelong relationships. I could have been a better mother; a better daughter; a better sibling; a better wife; a better friend...so many instances when I could have done something differently, something kinder, something more helpful. I do tell myself now that I did the best I could at that time under those circumstances, but it certainly pushes the guilt and shame buttons and boom...symptoms! When we know better, we do better. Until then, we are innocent.

 

[tgirl]

Miffybunny and Duggit. Thank you both for your thoughtful responses. I will reread them for sure.

 

[Balsa11]

I think you are right when you say not to let it become a form of self-sabotage. In the past when I read that TMS people had a such and such personality I immediately thought, well I don’t totally fit into that definition, so maybe this isn’t me. I think I have enough other traits, such as years of strange symptoms that just went away, and so on, that I can let go of the personality trait portion of the TMS definition.

It is interesting when you ask are TMS traits born or made. I agree, who knows and maybe it doesn’t matter, but still interesting.

Thank you for all of your insight Plum.

As soon as I read the personality thing it became a really annoying label, probably a vestigial thing from outdated psychoanalysis. Screw labels- they really limit us. The only thing we have in common is somatic repression of emotions. Type A/B doesn't really mean anything much in terms of doing the TMS work.

 

[MariaK]

Maria,

it’s incredibly generous of you to craft such a long post for Eskimo but perhaps because you are new here you don’t truly appreciate how much time, love, explanation and support a good many of us have given to him and countless other people both on the forum and in private. What we have written in this thread is a potent distillation of our many posts (I have almost reached 2,000 messages), and as such offers condensed collective wisdom. Our personal journeys with TMS can easily be accessed by anyone desiring to understand how we reached this point, all our past posts and comments are available for reading.

My own healing ran contra to much of the proscribed advice yet it still delivered me to these same truths. I have shared much of my struggles over the years I have been here and spent hours delving through the minutiae to help others. We all have. We’ve all penned reams about how we’ve healed.

I feel it’s important to clarify this lest you mistakenly believe we are being casual and cavalier when we have been anything but. The people on this forum are some of the most generous, devoted and loving souls I have ever known, and all give grandly of their insights and time. I think this is worthy of respect.

I'm sorry, Plum. I didn't mean any disrespect to you or the other folks who have put so much effort into helping him. I'll take your message to heart.

 

[Balsa11]

You contradicted yourself. You’re already forming the game plan for when the TMS approach fails. Therefore you do not fully believe your problems are from TMS.

You can’t keep your thoughts at bay. Trying will strengthen them. You can however realize they mean absolutely nothing.

This is it people. This is how you “try” for years and years but it just “doesn’t work.” Or even worse “it doesn’t work for ME because I’m special.” The whole problem is what you believe. There is nothing “to do” with TMS. Nothing at all. Every time I’d get freedom from my RSI pain as I was In the home stretch I’d laugh at that. The realization I didn’t need to do ANYTHING. It’s an understanding. A realization.

All the “ if this, then I’ll do this” is the actual problem for most. Instead everyone would like you to wake up to the fact that there is no problem. Most of your problems in life are mind generated. Ever noticed how it appears other people can live a life of very similar circumstances, but they seem happy?

I apologize in advance if this rubs people the wrong way. I feel like this type of explanation would have really accelerated healing in myself if it came from someone I respected.

Basically making happiness conditional stokes the flames. We don't need a reason to be happy

 

[Idearealist]

This thread is EPIC. It's so helpful ... I feel like I am smashing it at the moment, with this thread as motivation that I can do it!

Indeed, this is the thread to end all threads xD. It's been helpful reading about everyone's experiences. Thanks for starting this, @eskimoeskimo.

 

[plum]

I'm sorry, Plum. I didn't mean any disrespect to you or the other folks who have put so much effort into helping him. I'll take your message to heart.

It’s really ok sweetheart. Please be the generous soul you are, the world needs all the kindness we can muster. Your words to Eskimo were lovely and considered. I hope he read and reflected upon them.

With love

 

[TG957]

Tempting. Very tempting.
I like deep cleaning for the same reason. It clears more than muck and grime, it’s cathartic and like all hard work, good for the soul (and body). I find I can work out a good many mental tangles too. My dad finds gardening achieves the same goal but lacking a garden I’m contenting myself with Spring Cleaning the balcony. It’s a horrible grotty job (goddam pigeons) but I love having done it.

I know the feeling. For some reason, cleaning the bathrooms, all those white, smooth, shiny surfaces feels especially meditative to me. Go figure!

 

[Hillbilly]

@Kozas Congratulations! I read your post about taking the long-term, serious approach, and now you will be well on your way. Keep going, don't expect linear results, and you will be fine. You have made a decision with a very firm intention, and this is what is required for lasting change. As mentioned before, the mentality change required is not much different than quitting a substance, losing weight, etc. Gimmicks and fads will only yield short-term results, if any. Consistency is key, even when progress appears to have stalled or gone backwards. I am really looking forward to your success story, no matter how long it is from now.

@eskimoeskimo I have been watching this thread when I have the time to do so, and I hesitate to respond yet again, but as several of us have stated, we feel for you because we've been there. I also decided to respond because I know many other people are reading this thread, so it's not just for you.

You have mastered suffering. This is not to say that you have done this consciously, as no one wants to suffer. But you unconsciously practiced the thoughts, words, feelings of suffering so often that you have become extremely efficient at it. You just haven't realized how much you do this, and/or haven't put enough energy into changing it, or you wouldn't be here.

Practice of anything, good or bad, just makes you better at that thing. At some point it becomes effortless, like a high level dancer or pro athlete.

You have every right to feel and think the way you do. This is not a judgment of you personally. But it it this constant repetition, and validation of that repetition, that is keeping you suffering.

I love to read personal stories about people who have healed themselves of ailments, whether TMS-related or not, because the individual process is fascinating. Recently I listened to an in-depth story of someone who healed themselves from later-stage cancer after regular treatments failed her. She said one day amidst all the suffering, chemo side effects, depression, and potentially impending death that she decided to take matters into her own hands. The first thing she did was to carry a notebook around and make a quick note every single time she had a negative thought about anything. Very quickly she filled the notepad up, and she was shocked to find out how often she really thought/felt awful things (understandably so!). This was her first turning point, because she finally became self-aware that a vast majority of her thoughts/feelings were destructive. She became the observer.

And as we've mentioned repeatedly, thoughts and feelings create chemical releases in the body, which over time causes dysfunction, and then influence thoughts and feelings, and the cycle continues.

She then decided she was going to meditate every day, even if only for a few minutes, and she wouldn't get up from that meditation until she consciously changed how she felt. Sometimes she could do this quickly, sometimes it took over an hour. She said many times she felt as though she wasn't making progress, and sometimes even felt that she was fighting a losing battle. But she kept going, little by little, every day. She created strength when she thought she had none. She'd catch herself slipping back into old thoughts and feelings throughout the day, and she'd shift them as well as she could. She was never able to do this 100% of the time, but she kept trying. After a full year of this approach, her body slowly started to heal. She had stopped all drug treatments before taking this on herself, because they weren't working very well, and they were causing too many side effects, so this change wasn't due to any medicine. Within another year or so she was cancer free.

This is just one story, one process. Is everyone's healing approach going to be the same? Of course not. But the underlying process IS the same. Anyone here who has shared their healing stories have one major thing in common: We all became aware of how we were keeping ourselves stuck, took responsibility for our thoughts/feelings/actions, and put the time and energy into changing those things. Not for a few months or a few weeks, but for good. Can I do this 100% of the time? No. But it wasn't necessary to do 100% to heal. When you have the self-awareness to catch yourself slipping into old patterns, you can stop it faster the more you practice it.

Not everyone will heal in the same way, which is why things can get confusing with so many opinions. But if you look deeper, you'll see the commonalities in all of the approaches.

We have also discussed at length the ways in which people sabotage recovery (these things are very clearly listed in 'Mental Health Through Will Training' (MHTWT):

Romanticism and Intellectualism in thinking, Defeatism, and Self-Diagnosis (not fully accepting a TMS diagnosis is a from of self-diagnosis) just to name of few of the major ones.

This thread alone is littered with you doing all of them, repeatedly. You are constantly trying to validate how you feel, and your current situation, but in doing so you will just get more of the same.

You keep mentioning all the possibly terrifying things that can come from your symptoms, but in all this time, how many of them have come to fruition? You're still alive. In all the times I had intense heart palpitations, I never had a heart attack. It wasn't until I got to the point where I'd start laughing when it happened that they started to go away. There is always a 'what if' with anything. Nothing is totally safe if you really want to look at things that way. The choice in how you view it is yours, but until you recognize that fear is winning, and consciously try to change that in whatever way you can, you will remain stuck. And not just change it once and go 'why am I not healed yet?' but over and over, thousands of times if necessary, until you un-train the old habit and create a new one.

In fact in MHTWT, there is an entire chapter called 'The patient wants the ends of health, not its means.'

Making these changes when you are suffering can be very difficult, but it's not impossible. I also like to watch weight-loss success stories, because they are inspiring. Do you think someone with hundreds of pounds to lose will see changes every day once they start on their process? Of course not. But they keep going because the bigger picture is always kept in mind.

Permanent change takes a level of decision, discipline, and intention greater than the addiction to your current situation.

So take all of that high-powered acumen, intelligence, and frustration you have, and look ONLY at yourself. Read all your posts, but imagine they are from someone else, and maybe you'll start to see your pattern. Take full stock of absolutely all your thoughts, feelings, words and actions. Become the observer to these things, like @Kozas is just starting to do, and you will have your clear starting point. Then don't wait to feel better to start changing them, just start changing them now, over and over, until it starts to get easier. Practice a new pattern, and sooner or later you will live it without needing to put as much effort into it. Let the healing come from that change, but don't expect it to be fast.

There is no one set way to do this, but we've given a general template to go on. You are extremely sharp, so find your own way if need be. Different approaches work for different people, so find or make yours.

Wow! This is pure gold. I have been lurking around here for a few weeks and still feel like I’m a little lost at the Smithsonian with all the different forums, subforums, treatment plans and chats. I don’t think much of that is useful to someone who needs to find a plain-spoken voice of reasoned experience on how to heal and get back to life. This post should be printed out and taped to 1,000 couches of wiki members.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

This is really long, because I spent the other night reading the entire 30 page thread. Except for some of the unrelated posts. I still have more to say, but that's for another day. Hopefully, it will help you, Eskimo or someone else.

I think, for me, part of the problem with this approach is that it is so abstract and nebulous. It's very hard for people to explain what helped them. And many times they don't take the time to even try. I've made progress with various symptoms that I've had for 27 years. Physical pain wasn't one of my symptoms until I began to realize I had a mind/body illness. Then it began trying to fool me with all kinds of physical pain. Because pain was never one of my issues, it was plain to see what was happening, especially once I learned what symptom substitution was. Usually I am able to make the pain go away in a matter of seconds, sometimes a few minutes. Mostly by ignoring the symptom and not being afraid it is back and will never go away, etc. This took a laser like focus to learn how to do. I recently had success with my main sticking point, which is my Chronic Fatigues (CFS). I haven't tried most of the things recommended on here or most of the things that you've tried. Yet, I'm making progress, so I know something about what I'm talking about. But despite the progress I've made, I get nothing really from some of the statements from people saying to "just get on with your life" or "accept it" or "just let go". It definitely wouldn't have helped me when I started. And I don't feel it's very useful now. I'm not criticizing other people's truths. People can only share what has worked for them and use the language that means something to them. But I'm saying that, so that you don't judge yourself for not "getting it". In case you are judging yourself.

Also, it seems like people often talk about those ideas as a starting point. And I view them as an end point that you get to through a certain process. I kind of get what people are getting at, because in the past year I've reached a new place of letting go and not thinking about it. But that was through a long process. And I'd have to do a lot of thinking to explain what that process has been. Trying to overcome my illnesses has always had a very abstract quality.

I also don't think that using the approaches on this website are simple or easy. And that if you just did it right, you'd be well. If it were so easy, why are there so many people constantly asking for clarification about how to do it? Why are there people who have thorough knowledge of how it works, who have overcome say 10 or 20 years of severe pain. Only to have a new illness pop up that they struggle to overcome? Why are there so many people who mention they didn't get well, until they found the right book or the right explanation that finally made sense to them? And it's not the same book for everyone. And why do different people have polar opposite beliefs about how it works? My point is that I don't think it is simple or quick or easy. At least, not for everyone. It's one thing if you know that you are actively avoiding doing things people have suggested, eskimoeskimo. But you keep asking "how" (to accept and let go and get on with your life) and I don't seem to see a lot of people taking the time to explain it in detail. People who understand it way better than I do. Maybe they have, repeatedly, in your other posts over the past ten years. And that's why they're so frustrated with you. I only just discovered you a few weeks ago.

If I hadn't already done a ton of my own thinking and analyzing before I found the TMS website, I wouldn't have had any idea what to practice and what to disregard or hold off on. One of the first things I learned was that I'm supposed to figure out what I'm feeling all the time. But I knew that that was just going to keep me stuck in the very thing that was the problem. I needed to uncouple my mind from the reflex to constantly ask what was wrong with me. And that took me a couple years at least, of persistent work. I had been sick for several decades, so it was such a reflex to ask that question. If I hadn't thought for myself, I would have done what the website says and I would have felt worse and not had a clue why and would have likely assumed it was my fault. Like others have mentioned, you need to figure out your own path. I would recommend just letting go of trying to decide if you'll stay on this forum or not, or use this approach or not. Just put the decision on the shelf for a few weeks, if you know how to do that. What helped me to very slowly figure things out, was to take those few moments when I would feel a little better and try to understand what I was doing that made me feel better. It was a very slow process, but it has helped me get well. I know that overanalyzing things can be a problem for a lot of us. But for me, I feel like I have to analyze things until I'm ready not to.

The main thing that has helped me is ignoring the symptom and not fearing it or projecting into the future that it will come back. But that took a lot of practice. Persistent practice. I can't even have mild fear about it or I will have symptoms. I can see how for some people that feels impossible to do, especially with physical pain. And I don't think I would have been able to do it if I had discovered Sarno's books earlier in my illness. I would have been like, "I'm having like half a dozen symptoms all at the same time. I have no idea how to ignore them!" It is only because I reached a point of desperation with my health, where I had to go into a kind of emotionally cut off, compartmentalized state, that I was able to get a tiny bit of relief from my symptoms. I know that is the opposite of what is recommended on this site. But that is what I had to do for several years. Before that I was severely suicidal about the state of my life and how debilitated I was. It suddenly occurred to me, after 15 years of being sick, that I might never get well. I always assumed I'd get well. I obsessed all the time about killing myself. So, I went into a kind of denial. It gave me just enough relief from my symptoms, that I could then learn how to ignore them. I don't see how I could have learned any other way, because I was having so many symptoms and some that I wasn't even aware of. Each of us has our own unique psychology that makes up who were are and what issues are contributing to our illness. And so that is just the truth for me, that I had to cut off like that emotionally. I was in a total crisis. I had a ton of other stressful things that were going on in my life at the same time, that I had no clue were exacerbating my symptoms. And several years later, I learned from reading an article of Dr. Schubiner's sometimes my depression and anxiety were symptoms substitutions. So, I was constantly being bombarded with symptoms and couldn't get relief. Now it helps me, even when I have legitimate reasons to be depressed, to check in with myself to see if it is symptom substitution. I've noticed that a depression will kick in, when I had just been feeling hopeful a few days before or when I was having important insights.

I could relate to what you said Eskimo about the place in one of Dr. Sarno's books where he lists like 5 personality types that are TMS types. I think it is on the TMS Wiki page, too. I remember seeing that and saying, "You've just listed like 5 different types of people. From the codependent door mat, to the rage-aholic. Anyone can find themselves in that list." It seemed kind of fishy to me. Not that I think Dr. Sarno was up to anything intentional. But it did make me question the approach a little. Or a mother he mentions, who is pissed off that her husband isn't doing his fair share. And I thought, "Then shouldn't most moms have TMS?" It seemed like he was saying life causes TMS, which wasn't much of an explanation. I didn't want to let myself be healed by a sort of false idea. But I knew I had symptom substitution, so I knew I had TMS. On very rare occasions I could make a connection between an event and symptoms. And I believed that he had helped people. Though, I questioned his statistics a bit, once I found tmswiki and saw how many people were struggling. I didn't have to believe all of it, is what I'm saying. Or need all of it to make sense and fit together. (A hard sell, I know). I just needed to believe there was a psychological cause to my illness.

I know I haven't answered a lot of the "how" question for you, yet either! I need to think about that more. But one important realization for me, is how some of my symptoms are caused by the things I tell myself about my illness. So, if you haven't done it already, maybe it would help you to journal about the negative things you tell yourself in relation to your illness. You mentioned guilt for example. I realized that part of my fatigue was a deep, deep, deep message that I don't deserve this moment. I don't deserve it, because I'm not functioning well and I'm not working. And because I don't deserve to enjoy this moment, I can't ever get any relief, so that I can recharge my batteries and have a little energy. I mean "deep" as in deeply ingrained. It is so sad to think of the negative things I've been telling myself for decades, all while suffering horribly with very little clue how to get out. Judgement and blame just keep me stuck. So, for me, compassion for myself and not being judgemental are keys to getting better.

Thanks for taking the time to write this compassionate message @MariaK

I will think more on what you said

 

[eskimoeskimo]

Indeed, this is the thread to end all threads xD. It's been helpful reading about everyone's experiences. Thanks for starting this, @eskimoeskimo.

Thanks, that's nice of you to say @Idearealist

I hope it does more good than harm for others

 

[eskimoeskimo]

@Kozas Congratulations! I read your post about taking the long-term, serious approach, and now you will be well on your way. Keep going, don't expect linear results, and you will be fine. You have made a decision with a very firm intention, and this is what is required for lasting change. As mentioned before, the mentality change required is not much different than quitting a substance, losing weight, etc. Gimmicks and fads will only yield short-term results, if any. Consistency is key, even when progress appears to have stalled or gone backwards. I am really looking forward to your success story, no matter how long it is from now.

@eskimoeskimo I have been watching this thread when I have the time to do so, and I hesitate to respond yet again, but as several of us have stated, we feel for you because we've been there. I also decided to respond because I know many other people are reading this thread, so it's not just for you.

You have mastered suffering. This is not to say that you have done this consciously, as no one wants to suffer. But you unconsciously practiced the thoughts, words, feelings of suffering so often that you have become extremely efficient at it. You just haven't realized how much you do this, and/or haven't put enough energy into changing it, or you wouldn't be here.

Practice of anything, good or bad, just makes you better at that thing. At some point it becomes effortless, like a high level dancer or pro athlete.

You have every right to feel and think the way you do. This is not a judgment of you personally. But it it this constant repetition, and validation of that repetition, that is keeping you suffering.

I love to read personal stories about people who have healed themselves of ailments, whether TMS-related or not, because the individual process is fascinating. Recently I listened to an in-depth story of someone who healed themselves from later-stage cancer after regular treatments failed her. She said one day amidst all the suffering, chemo side effects, depression, and potentially impending death that she decided to take matters into her own hands. The first thing she did was to carry a notebook around and make a quick note every single time she had a negative thought about anything. Very quickly she filled the notepad up, and she was shocked to find out how often she really thought/felt awful things (understandably so!). This was her first turning point, because she finally became self-aware that a vast majority of her thoughts/feelings were destructive. She became the observer.

And as we've mentioned repeatedly, thoughts and feelings create chemical releases in the body, which over time causes dysfunction, and then influence thoughts and feelings, and the cycle continues.

She then decided she was going to meditate every day, even if only for a few minutes, and she wouldn't get up from that meditation until she consciously changed how she felt. Sometimes she could do this quickly, sometimes it took over an hour. She said many times she felt as though she wasn't making progress, and sometimes even felt that she was fighting a losing battle. But she kept going, little by little, every day. She created strength when she thought she had none. She'd catch herself slipping back into old thoughts and feelings throughout the day, and she'd shift them as well as she could. She was never able to do this 100% of the time, but she kept trying. After a full year of this approach, her body slowly started to heal. She had stopped all drug treatments before taking this on herself, because they weren't working very well, and they were causing too many side effects, so this change wasn't due to any medicine. Within another year or so she was cancer free.

This is just one story, one process. Is everyone's healing approach going to be the same? Of course not. But the underlying process IS the same. Anyone here who has shared their healing stories have one major thing in common: We all became aware of how we were keeping ourselves stuck, took responsibility for our thoughts/feelings/actions, and put the time and energy into changing those things. Not for a few months or a few weeks, but for good. Can I do this 100% of the time? No. But it wasn't necessary to do 100% to heal. When you have the self-awareness to catch yourself slipping into old patterns, you can stop it faster the more you practice it.

Not everyone will heal in the same way, which is why things can get confusing with so many opinions. But if you look deeper, you'll see the commonalities in all of the approaches.

We have also discussed at length the ways in which people sabotage recovery (these things are very clearly listed in 'Mental Health Through Will Training' (MHTWT):

Romanticism and Intellectualism in thinking, Defeatism, and Self-Diagnosis (not fully accepting a TMS diagnosis is a from of self-diagnosis) just to name of few of the major ones.

This thread alone is littered with you doing all of them, repeatedly. You are constantly trying to validate how you feel, and your current situation, but in doing so you will just get more of the same.

You keep mentioning all the possibly terrifying things that can come from your symptoms, but in all this time, how many of them have come to fruition? You're still alive. In all the times I had intense heart palpitations, I never had a heart attack. It wasn't until I got to the point where I'd start laughing when it happened that they started to go away. There is always a 'what if' with anything. Nothing is totally safe if you really want to look at things that way. The choice in how you view it is yours, but until you recognize that fear is winning, and consciously try to change that in whatever way you can, you will remain stuck. And not just change it once and go 'why am I not healed yet?' but over and over, thousands of times if necessary, until you un-train the old habit and create a new one.

In fact in MHTWT, there is an entire chapter called 'The patient wants the ends of health, not its means.'

Making these changes when you are suffering can be very difficult, but it's not impossible. I also like to watch weight-loss success stories, because they are inspiring. Do you think someone with hundreds of pounds to lose will see changes every day once they start on their process? Of course not. But they keep going because the bigger picture is always kept in mind.

Permanent change takes a level of decision, discipline, and intention greater than the addiction to your current situation.

So take all of that high-powered acumen, intelligence, and frustration you have, and look ONLY at yourself. Read all your posts, but imagine they are from someone else, and maybe you'll start to see your pattern. Take full stock of absolutely all your thoughts, feelings, words and actions. Become the observer to these things, like @Kozas is just starting to do, and you will have your clear starting point. Then don't wait to feel better to start changing them, just start changing them now, over and over, until it starts to get easier. Practice a new pattern, and sooner or later you will live it without needing to put as much effort into it. Let the healing come from that change, but don't expect it to be fast.

There is no one set way to do this, but we've given a general template to go on. You are extremely sharp, so find your own way if need be. Different approaches work for different people, so find or make yours.

I'm sorry I can't get on board with this Joe Dispenza cure cancer with positive thinking stuff

 

[eskimoeskimo]

tgirl said:
↑

[T]here is something about the traits of TMS suffers that perplexes me. As far as being a people pleaser or a goodist, I feel I might be the opposite . . . . I’m wondering if you or others reading this have an opinion. It’s occurred to me that I might keep myself out of situations where I have to do excessive ‘nice’ things for others or have to be overly responsible. It’s almost as though I possess the opposite characteristics (some of them, anyway) of the typical TMSer, but the reason might be that I actively avoid these situations. Confrontation is not my strong point. . . . I suppose this could be construed as my looking for reasons I don’t fit the model . . . .
​

My opinion, tgirl, is that you "fit the model" exactly. I will explain by referring to an interview that Alan Gordon did with Laura Seago (of the Curable app) on her "like mind like body" podcast. The interview is titled We're All Just A Bundle of Neural Pathways.

You said you avoid situations where you "have to do excessive 'nice' things for others or have to be overly responsible," and this is because "[c]onfrontation is not my strong point." Here is what Alan Gordon said in the interview about neural pathway pain, which is the same thing as Sarno called TMS and TMS equivalents: "[E]veryone who develops neural pathway pain by definition on some primitive level doesn't feel entirely safe in the world. Maybe it's something as simple as learning early on that certain emotions were not OK. So when those emotions come up, your brain is like 'danger!' Or maybe you grow up in an environment where intimacy wasn't OK. So anytime you feel close to someone . . . danger. Or maybe you grew up where confrontation was scary. Whatever it is, there's something where on a primitive level you don't feel all the way safe." (I added the emphasis.)

The interviewer then asked: "So it might not be immediately obvious what's happening and what the connection is?"
Gordon responded: "Exactly. And that's one of the things that we're doing with patients--targeting what it is that their brain is perceiving as dangerous, and then we're trying to teach their brain that this thing that they learned was dangerous is actually safe."

In response to a question about the role of fear in chronic pain, Gordon said this: "I don't even look at the pain as something to stamp out. I look at it more as a barometer for how safe the primitive brain feels. It's just the body and the brain's way of letting us know that the primitive brain feels unsafe. Pain is a danger signal, and it's the fear and the preoccupation around the pain that determines whether or not this danger signal stays activated or shuts off. So one of the things we want to do is we want to target whatever it is that the brain is perceiving is dangerous - whether it's certain emotions, whether it's intimacy, whether it's confrontation, whether it's chairs . . . (people with back pain actually start to see chairs as dangerous) . . . ." (Again, I added the emphasis.)

The full podcast interview, where Gordon further explains his treatment approach, is available on iTunes or Google Podcasts. Of course, his approach is well laid out in his new Pain Recovery Program available on this website, but the podcast interview adds useful overall perspective (or so I think, anyway).

I think it's possible to fit anybody into this 'type' if you're trying to

 

[eskimoeskimo]

I've read that Abraham Low book 60 times and tried to adopt its prescriptions ... not passingly, not fleetingly, and not half-heartedly, but with everything I could muster.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

My worst fear has come to pass. My worst fear is not that something catastrophic should happen of a sudden. Hell I've prayed for a heart attack. My worst fear is that this suffering should continue. And it has. You'll say it's of my own doing, but the interventions based on this premise do not work.

 

[RogueWave]

And yet here you are.

I’m failing to understand your position here. We have plenty of people here who have cured themselves, or who are making progress in the process of, who are sharing their time and energy. Yet you seem to not believe anyone, and even seem to try and make people doubt their own experience.

We have shared stories of other people who have cured themselves through other means. And you don’t believe any of that either.

Do you see the problem here? I don’t know you outside of here, but I’m going to go further and say you’ve probably been keeping yourself in this dynamic for quite some time now. And not just here.

So why are you still here, other than to validate your own misery? I have seen no change in your tone since I’ve been here, which means you haven’t changed at all. And I don’t mean your symptoms.

I have learned over many years of dealing with people that compassion only goes so far. After a certain point it just enables the behavior to continue. I have seen families of drug addicts wiped out financially and emotionally by constantly trying to help, when the addict themselves do nothing other than to go to an expensive rehab, and then just resume the same behaviors once they get out.

Therefore, this will absolutely be my last response to this. Everything has been said already.

The ‘cure’ is in you. Find your OWN way. But no book, person, technique or anything else will matter if you don’t think that that is possible. You will just give up, again and again.

So you’ve tried approaches that didn’t work. So? Does that mean nothing will? No.

Research people healing themselves. There are plenty, and its tremendously inspiring. It’s a start. And it will show you that there isn’t only one way.

I recently read Moorjani’s book ‘Dying to Be Me.’
Here was a woman who is in the hospital with late stage cancer, and just waiting to die. She had sores all over her body, and was just clinging to life. This is extremely well documented in the book. She technically died, had an out of body experience, and in that moment had a realization that her cancer was due to emotional issues. When she was resuscitated, her cancer completely healed in a short period of time. Again this is all documented very clearly with pictures and medical reports. But you’d probably try and deny her story as well, and miss the entire point.

You don’t have to have that experience to get better, but it’s an inspiring story. And it’s just one example.

If you keep doing what you are doing, constantly only focusing on what doesn’t work and why it doesn’t work, and trying to make everyone else wrong, you will stay stuck just like you are now.

But it doesn’t have to be that way.

I really hope to see you make progress and then continue to post here. We all obviously care about you or we wouldn’t be responding.

The choice is yours.