What else is there - Seriously

[miffybunny]

Hi @Mark1122 ,

Belief mounts with time and practice and evidence. Right now you are in a state of resistance where you are "fighting" the symptoms and yourself, rather than 'allowing" them to just "be". The sensations you are experiencing are not happening "to" you...you are creating them and generating them with our own fearful thoughts. The goal is to reduce fear and there are many interventions for this. A few examples would be: Remind yourself that you are not in danger and you are not dying. Have mantras like "I'm safe", "I''m healthy", " I can do what I want", "These sensations are meaningless", "It's just my brain" etc... Remind yourself that doctors have ruled out the catastrophic and so therefore it's just your brain. This is dynamic pain (symptoms) which are reversible. Another technique is engaging with the fear...tolerating it...letting it be there. Watch it with curiosity. Ask yourself what are you really feeling? What is the fear really about? The focus on the physical is merely a preoccupation....a distraction...a diversion from the real issues. Gradually start challenging your fears by doing activities and tolerating triggers at a low level. Start by imagining certain scenarios or activities and see what comes up. Build up to doing things you fear in tiny doses with no pressure. This will build confidence and hope which are the antidotes to fear. Practice, practice, practice. The more you practice, the more you desensitize these pathways of fear-symptom-fear and cycles of fear - response- avoidance. The goal is to live your day without fear, versus without symptoms. Success hinges on how little you care about the symptoms...how little they affect you. Find areas of your life in which you can feel more empowered...helping someone else for example. Ask yourself, "If I didn't have all these symptoms and anxiety/depression what would I be doing??" When we remove negative habits, it's important to replace them with things to look forward to that give our life meaning (things we really desire).


There is also nothing wrong with consulting a psychiatrist and taking an anti depressant to calm down the rumination and fear response. It is not about the physical whatsoever. It's all about the unconscious anxiety. When one keeps focusing on the physical the pain strategy will continue to have one in its firm clutches. The only way to get off the hamster wheel and to intercept this cycle is by addressing the root causes of the anxiety. We all have an emotional compass and anxiety has a way of covering that up. You can't fight anxiety with more anxiety over your body (health anxiety). It's just trading one maladaptive coping mechanism for another. Identify, explore and feel the underlying emotions without judgment. Allow them to pass through. Your symptoms are temporary just as emotions and thoughts are transient and harmless. Communicate to your brain that emotions are safe and you will disable the mechanism....like taking batteries out of a smoke alarm that keeps going off. You don't have to smash the alarm sending blaringly loud, false signals with a hammer...you take the batteries out.

 

[BloodMoon]

when one is in pain, there is bound to be some depression and anxiety. i'm not sure if anyone really escapes that. and depression alone robs us of our joy. i know that is exactly what has happened to me. the worse i felt, the more depressed i became, the less motivation i had for ANYTHING i use to enjoy. enjoy - in joy - that led to a vicious catch 22. eventually i found myself just getting through another day. that's no way to live. it's a way to die.

oh my, yes! i am an information junkie and i know that my knowledge alone can keep me from experiencing. sometimes i say "i just know too much!" knowledge is a wonderful thing, but until you apply it, it's not worth penny. try swimming from reading books. reading tms books is the same in that we have to DO IT!

These two points you make @TrustIt tie in with the central message of a book I'm reading atm called 'You Can't Afford the Luxury of a Single Negative Thought' by John-Roger and Peter McWilliams. It's a book that gives lots of suggestions as to how to stop living a 'living death'; it gives practical suggestions for decisions and approaches you can make and do to change your life, rather than it being yet another book big on theory with little actual 'how to' or a book so prescriptive that it piles on the pressure (which I think most of us can do without). A lot of it is 'hitting the spot' with me, so I thought I'd just mention it in case it may help someone else like @eskimoeskimo (that is, if he can bear to read yet another TMS type book or hasn't already read it). It's a book with short chapters containing the suggestions, so you can just 'dip into' it when in the mood takes you and re-read things easily in order to go over approaches to reinforce them or remind yourself of them etc. The first 36 pages can be seen here to include the contents list (but, unfortunately, not all of the contents list) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_zmyg7W7qsoC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false (You Can't Afford the Luxury of a Negative Thought). The full contents list can be seen on the amazon preview of the book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cant-Affor...70002&sprefix=you+can't+afford,aps,144&sr=8-1

 

[Dorado]

Thank you for chiming in Dorado. I’m feeling so lost and dejected. It is nice that so many people try to help. But I’ve been doing this for so long. The pain has never lessened in all these years. I’m not sure I should visit here anymore. I tried again to delete my account but no one gets back to me. I’ve been in pain for so long. I can remember posting essentially the same despairing message to this same site ... a year ago, 2 years ago, 7 years ago! Do I know anything more about TMS now than I did then? Not really, no. Not getting better when TMS people keep telling me it’s possible - for me too - has been torturous. I do not know how to coexist with these symptoms, this pain, this despair. If my parents weren’t alive I’d end it all without hesitation. Where can I go from here? The pain is too great.

I’m so sorry you’re still in a great deal of pain. Nobody truly wants to end it all - they just want their pain to end. When was the last time you felt enjoyment, even if only for a fleeting second? Maybe when you had a bite of your favorite food, saw a picture of a cute animal, heard a familiar song, etc.?

I once fell in love with someone whom I believed I could “fix,” until I realized that I could not fix her - and she likely resents me for trying so hard. But as someone who was in suffocating pain myself and felt deep empathy as well as a need to present healing solutions I wished someone else would give me, I didn’t know how to walk away (even when I couldn’t manage my own life due to anxiety, I always knew how to give other people solid advice, manage a successful career, etc. - nobody knew how messed up I truly felt).

I later fell in love with a seriously cool person who was so absolutely in love with life and being alive that it captivated me, but I realized that he could not fix me. Even so, I could still be inspired by him. We can always inspire and support one another. Please know we’re here for you, even if we can’t fix everything for you.

Regarding the individual who was totally in love with life, we met during my very dark phase that lasted well over a decade. I fantasized about suicide regularly, but it took years and years for me to finally realize that it stemmed from anxiety I was never taught to manage. I was so full of emotional nerves that my moods were constantly swinging all over the place. I rarely felt sustained enjoyment - I only felt danger, resentment, confusion, etc. The fact that people enjoy living was beyond me!

I can’t give you all the answers because it’s all so individualized, but I can tell you my own story and offer guidance based on those experiences. For what it’s worth, I went from wishing I’d develop cancer in my twenties and dying (so I didn’t have to end it all myself) to wanting to live indefinitely. I’ve shared my story with you before, so I won’t bore you with the same details, but I am so glad I’m here today. And even my perception of relationships have changed - whether romantic, friendly, or whatever: I don’t need someone to fix me and I don’t need to fix anyone else, I just want to experience life in the most fulfilling way possible and continue to grow and evolve. That’s it.

Your parents are the reason you’re sticking around. That’s more than I could say: only thing holding me back was a fear of failing and permanently disfiguring myself - more anxiety on top of my existing load of anxiety. I didn’t even care about my parents, who I now know would probably die if I killed myself, because I was completely convinced that everyone was better off without me. You do value things about life and you haven’t given up yet; otherwise, you wouldn’t be reaching out to me. What are your goals?

 

[eskimoeskimo]

I'm sorry you're still struggling. If any, what psych meds have you tried? Also, what's your sleep pattern and physical activity usually like? Try to take more mental rest breaks and have a healthy lifestyle. Please don't get bogged in depression, it makes pain linger. Your mental health can affect your physical health so please don't go it all alone.

Hi Balsa. I've tried many, many psych meds. Too many to list here. I've never felt any effects, even at high doses well above the fda recommended limit. My sleep is regular and I walk at least a few miles each day.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

i don't think you need to apologize. you have stated your case, your frustration, very clearly and are obviously intelligent and articulate and sincerely looking for help. i don't see you as negative and argumentative as much as desperate and probably depressed. and, as someone has already said, you have started a helluva thread here! i know i am getting something from it and i'm sure others are as well. i think it's healthy to bring up what is deep and real for each of us, whether anyone else agrees or not. we are all here, hopefully, to help each other find relief....however that is accomplished. we can't help being interested in resolving any pain and discomfort we are experiencing, and the more severe it is, the more interested we become bc we NEED to figure it out! that "interest" keeps us locked in and instead of getting what we want, we get what we focus on (i.e. are most interested in). i posted something to that effect in another post, but it gave me a lightbulb moment. i wish you the best, eskimoeskimo. what if you just try to establish the belief that "it is possible" to heal, rather than trying to convince your stubborn subconscious that you absolutely will. it obviously doesn't believe you quite yet. i hear you!!!! hang in there!

Thank you. I appreciate your support and encouragement. Definitely depressed, no question.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

These two points you make @TrustIt tie in with the central message of a book I'm reading atm called 'You Can't Afford the Luxury of a Single Negative Thought' by John-Roger and Peter McWilliams. It's a book that gives lots of suggestions as to how to stop living a 'living death'; it gives practical suggestions for decisions and approaches you can make and do to change your life, rather than it being yet another book big on theory with little actual 'how to' or a book so prescriptive that it piles on the pressure (which I think most of us can do without). A lot of it is 'hitting the spot' with me, so I thought I'd just mention it in case it may help someone else like @eskimoeskimo (that is, if he can bear to read yet another TMS type book or hasn't already read it). It's a book with short chapters containing the suggestions, so you can just 'dip into' it when in the mood takes you and re-read things easily in order to go over approaches to reinforce them or remind yourself of them etc. The first 36 pages can be seen here to include the contents list https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_zmyg7W7qsoC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false (You Can't Afford the Luxury of a Negative Thought)

I have read it. Thank you though

 

[eskimoeskimo]

I’m so sorry you’re still in a great deal of pain. Nobody truly wants to end it all - they just want their pain to end. When was the last time you felt enjoyment, even if only for a fleeting second? Maybe when you had a bite of your favorite food, saw a picture of a cute animal, heard a familiar song, etc.?

I once fell in love with a woman whom I believed I could “fix,” until I realized that I could not fix her - and she likely resents me for trying so hard. But as someone who was in suffocating pain myself and felt deep empathy as well as a need to present healing solutions I wished someone else would give me, I didn’t know how to walk away (even when I couldn’t manage my own life due to anxiety, I always knew how to give other people solid advice, manage a successful career, etc. - nobody knew how messed up I truly felt).

I later fell for a seriously cool guy who was so absolutely in love with life and being alive that it captivated me, but I realized that he could not fix me. Even so, I could still be inspired by him. We can always inspire and support one another. Please know we’re here for you, even if we can’t fix everything for you.

Regarding the individual who was totally in love with life, we met during my very dark phase that lasted well over a decade. I fantasized about suicide regularly, but it took years and years for me to finally realize that it stemmed from anxiety I was never taught to manage. I was so full of emotional nerves that my moods were constantly swinging all over the place. I rarely felt sustained enjoyment - I only felt danger, resentment, confusion, etc. The fact that people enjoy living was beyond me!

I can’t give you all the answers because it’s all so individualized, but I can tell you my own story and offer guidance based on those experiences. For what it’s worth, I went from wishing I’d develop cancer in my twenties and dying (so I didn’t have to end it all myself) to wanting to live indefinitely. I’ve shared my story with you before, so I won’t bore you with the same details, but I am so glad I’m here today. And even my perception of relationships have changed - whether romantic, friendly, or whatever: I don’t need someone to fix me and I don’t need to fix anyone else, I just want to experience life in the most fulfilling way possible and continue to grow and evolve. That’s it.

Your parents are the reason you’re sticking around. That’s more than I could say: only thing holding me back was a fear of failing and permanently disfiguring myself - more anxiety on top of my existing load of anxiety. I didn’t even care about my parents, who I now know would probably die if I killed myself, because I was completely convinced that everyone was better off without me. You do value things about life and you haven’t given up yet; otherwise, you wouldn’t be reaching out to me. What are your goals?

Thank you Dorado. You're right that I don't want to die, I want the pain to end. But I have very little to no hope that it will end by any other means. I feel like I've endured it for as long as I can now. I too worry that I might fail and end up trapped in an even worse hell than this one. But this is intolerable. Despite being a hypochondriac and an atheist, I've prayed for cancer. Like you were, I am baffled that anyone could enjoy living. That adds to the confusion and angst of being in so much pain.

I can't remember the last time I felt thoroughgoing joy, untinged by the pain and despair regarding the pain. The best I can say is that occasionally the despair is slightly less for a fleeting second. Food, music, laughter. People often then say to pursue those things more fervently, seek joy, meaning, a sense of purpose. Make those things more important than pain or the alleviation of pain. I guess a fleeting second is supposed to become a minute is supposed to become an hour, a day, a new way of life. I have pursued this time and time again.

My goals? I assume you mean other than getting out of pain which, if I'm honest, is my only goal at this stage. I know in this modality that it's not supposed to be, but I've never found a way to not have that as my goal. I want the pain to stop. Desperately. I understand the view that this is the attitude that keeps it stuck, but in 10 years I've not figured out any other way. Outcome independence seems impossible to me. I'm not saying it is impossible, but that's how it seems to me.

If I pretend for a second that I have other goals, imagining another version of myself who doesn't have these symptoms and this depression ... I think I would want to achieve some things. I won't list them out here now, but I know what they are. Goals related to career, social life, love life, family life, artistic goals, etc. And I have made this list. I mean literally written it out. And then made it my aim to pursue those things regardless of symptoms. I'd say that was my strategy for basically all of my 20s. And now that I'm 31, those goals have only receded into the distance, the pain and depression are as bad or worse than ever before, and I'm totally and completely, physically and spiritually, exhausted, bitter, hopeless, and afraid.

Much of your experience sounds so like mine. I want to believe that I can get better like you did. I've read your messages many hundreds of times, trying to rekindle any hope in myself. The approach you outline sounds plausible to me, but I don't know what else I can do to try to live it. How else can I try? What the hell am I missing?

 

[Balsa11]

Hi Balsa. I've tried many, many psych meds. Too many to list here. I've never felt any effects, even at high doses well above the fda recommended limit. My sleep is regular and I walk at least a few miles each day.

Hmm. I've found in terms of mindset, switching things up can be fun. So like a different kind of workout or routine can sometimes get me out of a rut. Consistency isn't easy but variety is doable.

 

[Balsa11]

Thank you Dorado. You're right that I don't want to die, I want the pain to end. But I have very little to no hope that it will end by any other means. I feel like I've endured it for as long as I can now. I too worry that I might fail and end up trapped in an even worse hell than this one. But this is intolerable. Despite being a hypochondriac and an atheist, I've prayed for cancer. Like you were, I am baffled that anyone could enjoy living. That adds to the confusion and angst of being in so much pain.

I can't remember the last time I felt thoroughgoing joy, untinged by the pain and despair regarding the pain. The best I can say is that occasionally the despair is slightly less for a fleeting second. Food, music, laughter. People often then say to pursue those things more fervently, seek joy, meaning, a sense of purpose. Make those things more important than pain or the alleviation of pain. I guess a fleeting second is supposed to become a minute is supposed to become an hour, a day, a new way of life. I have pursued this time and time again.

My goals? I assume you mean other than getting out of pain which, if I'm honest, is my only goal at this stage. I know in this modality that it's not supposed to be, but I've never found a way to not have that as my goal. I want the pain to stop. Desperately. I understand the view that this is the attitude that keeps it stuck, but in 10 years I've not figured out any other way. Outcome independence seems impossible to me. I'm not saying it is impossible, but that's how it seems to me.

If I pretend for a second that I have other goals, imagining another version of myself who doesn't have these symptoms and this depression ... I think I would want to achieve some things. I won't list them out here now, but I know what they are. Goals related to career, social life, love life, family life, artistic goals, etc. And I have made this list. I mean literally written it out. And then made it my aim to pursue those things regardless of symptoms. I'd say that was my strategy for basically all of my 20s. And now that I'm 31, those goals have only receded into the distance, the pain and depression are as bad or worse than ever before, and I'm totally and completely, physically and spiritually, exhausted, bitter, hopeless, and afraid.

Much of your experience sounds so like mine. I want to believe that I can get better like you did. I've read your messages many hundreds of times, trying to rekindle any hope in myself. The approach you outline sounds plausible to me, but I don't know what else I can do to try to live it. How else can I try? What the hell am I missing?

Instead of making it in terms of pain, return your attention to what you love and care about. Treat yourself. Be kind to yourself. Think about what you can do. This includes your body's involuntary, autonomous functions etc. You can write, think, share your story, etc.

Goals should be flexible, not set in stone. Maybe you've already healed from whatever started this. What was the very first thing that triggered your TMS? Sometimes the anxiety generalizes and gets triggered by more things based on sensitivity and avoidance.

If there is no rhyme or reason for you to be unhappy(as in a completely random, illogical pain trigger), you can look for something good. If something is hurtful, that needs more support, but you can still enjoy good things. Be aware of moments of helplessness and uncertainty or when staying upset feels more "comfortable". It's hard to let go of unconscious stories but brief pauses and nonjudgemental awareness are where it's at.

Do something that surprises you everyday and look at things from a new angle. Find ways to short circuit negative thinking and feel comfortable in your own skin. A little reduction is the way to go, no matter the ups and down. It's not about achieving or failing. Drugs etc. manage symptoms but are not a substitute for a healthy life.

Please don't let your wellbeing and happiness be subject to condition. Now is the time for unconditional self compassion.

 

[Idearealist]

Thank you Dorado. You're right that I don't want to die, I want the pain to end. But I have very little to no hope that it will end by any other means. I feel like I've endured it for as long as I can now. I too worry that I might fail and end up trapped in an even worse hell than this one. But this is intolerable. Despite being a hypochondriac and an atheist, I've prayed for cancer. Like you were, I am baffled that anyone could enjoy living. That adds to the confusion and angst of being in so much pain.

I can't remember the last time I felt thoroughgoing joy, untinged by the pain and despair regarding the pain. The best I can say is that occasionally the despair is slightly less for a fleeting second. Food, music, laughter. People often then say to pursue those things more fervently, seek joy, meaning, a sense of purpose. Make those things more important than pain or the alleviation of pain. I guess a fleeting second is supposed to become a minute is supposed to become an hour, a day, a new way of life. I have pursued this time and time again.

My goals? I assume you mean other than getting out of pain which, if I'm honest, is my only goal at this stage. I know in this modality that it's not supposed to be, but I've never found a way to not have that as my goal. I want the pain to stop. Desperately. I understand the view that this is the attitude that keeps it stuck, but in 10 years I've not figured out any other way. Outcome independence seems impossible to me. I'm not saying it is impossible, but that's how it seems to me.

If I pretend for a second that I have other goals, imagining another version of myself who doesn't have these symptoms and this depression ... I think I would want to achieve some things. I won't list them out here now, but I know what they are. Goals related to career, social life, love life, family life, artistic goals, etc. And I have made this list. I mean literally written it out. And then made it my aim to pursue those things regardless of symptoms. I'd say that was my strategy for basically all of my 20s. And now that I'm 31, those goals have only receded into the distance, the pain and depression are as bad or worse than ever before, and I'm totally and completely, physically and spiritually, exhausted, bitter, hopeless, and afraid.

Much of your experience sounds so like mine. I want to believe that I can get better like you did. I've read your messages many hundreds of times, trying to rekindle any hope in myself. The approach you outline sounds plausible to me, but I don't know what else I can do to try to live it. How else can I try? What the hell am I missing?

Eskimo, if you don't mind me asking, where is the pain and how severe is it? You've mentioned moments of normalcy when laughing, enjoying food, etc, but has there ever been stretches where you were less consumed by the pain?

I'm around your age so I totally understand feeling like goals are less obtainable as time goes on.

 

[Mark1122]

Hi @Mark1122 ,

Belief mounts with time and practice and evidence. Right now you are in a state of resistance where you are "fighting" the symptoms and yourself, rather than 'allowing" them to just "be". The sensations you are experiencing are not happening "to" you...you are creating them and generating them with our own fearful thoughts. The goal is to reduce fear and there are many interventions for this. A few examples would be: Remind yourself that you are not in danger and you are not dying. Have mantras like "I'm safe", "I''m healthy", " I can do what I want", "These sensations are meaningless", "It's just my brain" etc... Remind yourself that doctors have ruled out the catastrophic and so therefore it's just your brain. This is dynamic pain (symptoms) which are reversible. Another technique is engaging with the fear...tolerating it...letting it be there. Watch it with curiosity. Ask yourself what are you really feeling? What is the fear really about? The focus on the physical is merely a preoccupation....a distraction...a diversion from the real issues. Gradually start challenging your fears by doing activities and tolerating triggers at a low level. Start by imagining certain scenarios or activities and see what comes up. Build up to doing things you fear in tiny doses with no pressure. This will build confidence and hope which are the antidotes to fear. Practice, practice, practice. The more you practice, the more you desensitize these pathways of fear-symptom-fear and cycles of fear - response- avoidance. The goal is to live your day without fear, versus without symptoms. Success hinges on how little you care about the symptoms...how little they affect you. Find areas of your life in which you can feel more empowered...helping someone else for example. Ask yourself, "If I didn't have all these symptoms and anxiety/depression what would I be doing??" When we remove negative habits, it's important to replace them with things to look forward to that give our life meaning (things we really desire).


There is also nothing wrong with consulting a psychiatrist and taking an anti depressant to calm down the rumination and fear response. It is not about the physical whatsoever. It's all about the unconscious anxiety. When one keeps focusing on the physical the pain strategy will continue to have one in its firm clutches. The only way to get off the hamster wheel and to intercept this cycle is by addressing the root causes of the anxiety. We all have an emotional compass and anxiety has a way of covering that up. You can't fight anxiety with more anxiety over your body (health anxiety). It's just trading one maladaptive coping mechanism for another. Identify, explore and feel the underlying emotions without judgment. Allow them to pass through. Your symptoms are temporary just as emotions and thoughts are transient and harmless. Communicate to your brain that emotions are safe and you will disable the mechanism....like taking batteries out of a smoke alarm that keeps going off. You don't have to smash the alarm sending blaringly loud, false signals with a hammer...you take the batteries out.

Thanks i will try to follow your advice i think i will build up certain stuff so i dont get to the point all gets too much and i lose faith again. And i will try to look at my symptoms without fear, altough lately hardbut i think i need to slow down a bit.

 

[Dorado]

I’ve also just entered my thirties, but I still feel young and like there is time for me to achieve far more than I already have. I can try to illustrate this with personal examples to show you exactly how I manage this, but it’s all so individualized. Ultimately, a lot of this helped me stop focusing on symptoms and simply get back to living - which was critical to my story.

I was totally miserable throughout much of my twenties, so I try to see this new decade as a time of opportunity. I haven’t physically aged much, but what matters is how I act and feel. Nobody made stupid “old” jokes when I turned 30, which is sort of unusual because that seems to be the norm with our generation (where people often feel “old” at like, 24 - ahhh!), but I just feel okay about where I’m at and time itself right now. I live in a big city and I feel very entertained and - even if I'm technically alone - I never truly feel alone.

Does anxiety about deadlines and timelines make you feel bad? Do you like your surroundings? Personally - and this may not be thing your thing - I would be depressed in the suburbs or a more rural area. Do you connect with your community? Are you bored? Boredom was a huge anxiety and depression trigger for me. Is there somewhere else you’d rather be? What would help you feel like you had more opportunities? Perhaps it’s less about where you live and more about something else. What do you think?

I stumbled upon a Reddit post many years ago during my dark times with a list of reasons to not commit suicide. Some posters were offended that it involved minor activities. “Since when is eating ice cream during the summer going to cure someone from depression?” But as someone who once had a major depressive disorder diagnosis myself, it’s exactly what I needed to hear because I do in fact live for the little things, and I think that’s been my saving grace.

I may not be able to fix everything I’m unhappy with right now, but I can go grab an Earth cake pop at Starbucks and just feel better as I walk down my favorite street. Maybe an episode of South Park from 1998 will have me laughing in a matter of minutes. I don’t put pressure on myself to achieve every goal today and I’m in a place I truly love. Such moments give me the relief required to take a deep breathe and muster up the energy to do the bigger work the next day. Antidepressants can certainly help other people, but like you, I was failed by a lot of the traditional MDD treatments.

I apologize if this all sounds trivial or not relevant. I’m focusing on this because the posts above all contain great advice and many of the same things I’d say. Is there anyone you enjoy talking to? What mindset do the people around you have about their thirties and goals? Is the pressure of being “happy” or fulfilling specific goals weighing you down?

No pressure to respond if this isn’t fitting. You’re not alone and it’s not uncommon to feel this way about goals being less achievable over time.

 

[Kozas]

I don't want to hijack this thread again, but what when pain is pretty much the only really bad thing in your life? I'm exactly the same age as eskimo, I have constant pain and that's only thing holding me up. I have plenty of goals, but to be honest even archieving them is not that fun because, well I'm constantly in pain. I was depressed through my twenties, thanks to mindfulness meditation I learned to 'live with my pain' but it's daily, hourly, or even minute by minute, second by second struggle. I watch Dan Buglio video and yeah I can be opptimistic and don't think about pain. For 2 minutes. Maybe 5. But then, I think about it again.
Recently I found science study, when they found out that pain from reflux can be written in neural pathways(I have abdominal and teeth/jaw pain). And I'm pretty sure it's what happened to me, bad doctors cured my reflux after two years(I found better one and she gave me pills that were much more effective for reflux), my reflux was gone but pain not. So at least that's that. But I still struggle to not think about pain, or be neutral to it, even when I live wonderful life. I don't want to die, like I wanted in my 20's but pain severely impacts my life nonetheless.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

Eskimo, if you don't mind me asking, where is the pain and how severe is it? You've mentioned moments of normalcy when laughing, enjoying food, etc, but has there ever been stretches where you were less consumed by the pain?

I'm around your age so I totally understand feeling like goals are less obtainable as time goes on.

The pain is not severe and never has been. I'd say it maxes out at about 6/10 but averages lower. The pain intensity has never been of much concern to me. It's that it's that at all that I can't tolerate. Sometimes I even like it when the pain intensifies, because then at least it's different.

There have not been any stretches when I was less consumed by the pain. Moments only. Maybe an hour or two occasionally. Certainly never a day

 

[Kozas]

The pain is not severe and never has been. I'd say it maxes out at about 6/10 but averages lower. The pain intensity has never been of much concern to me. It's that it's that at all that I can't tolerate. Sometime I even like it when the pain intensifies, because then at least it's different.

There have not been any stretches when I was less consumed by the pain. Moments only. Maybe an hour or two occasionally. Certainly never a day

Same here. In worst days it's 6/10, usually 5/10, sometimes 4/10. But it's like having someone constantly screaming to your ear. Is it disabling you? No, you can still do everything you want. But nothing is fun when someone is screaming to you constantly. It's nearly impossible to ignore it though, and you kinda forced to listen to it. On one side it's bad that someone if feeling the same thing, but on the other hand it's kinda giving me comfort that while our symptoms are different - our feeling are very similiar, and I'm not the only one in the world feeling like that

 

[eskimoeskimo]

I’ve also just entered my thirties, but I still feel young and like there is time for me to achieve far more than I already have. I can try to illustrate this with personal examples to show you exactly how I manage this, but it’s all so individualized. Ultimately, a lot of this helped me stop focusing on symptoms and simply get back to living - which was critical to my story.

I was totally miserable throughout much of my twenties, so I try to see this new decade as a time of opportunity. I haven’t physically aged much, but what matters is how I act and feel. Nobody made stupid “old” jokes when I turned 30, which is sort of unusual because that seems to be the norm with our generation (where people often feel “old” at like, 24 - ahhh!), but I just feel okay about where I’m at and time itself right now.

I live in a big city (which I don’t explicitly name, although it’s probably obvious which one ). Even during COVID, I’m entertained and surrounded by all walks of life. Plenty of people here are literally many decades older than me and living fulfilling lives that include evolving and developing goals. This can happen anywhere, of course, but my personality requires certain types of stimulation. Some people wouldn’t like my city lifestyle and may genuinely enjoy living in the suburbs or on a farm. For me, I can walk just a few hundred feet from my flat and have access to art galleries, all different types of authentic dishes from around the globe, charity centers, yoga studios with social distancing, etc. I’m honestly not envious when my sibling buys a million dollar house in the suburbs. I don’t feel “left behind” when my siblings get married or have kids because I like what I’m doing, even if I have room to grow. Some people absolutely view me as a bisexual bachelor who works hard and plays hard, but I try to not internalize it. I have to accept that I may or may not do everything I want to do. That’s a risk I’ve had to live with, but I work through it by enjoying lots of other things.

Does anxiety about deadlines and timelines make you feel bad? Do you like your surroundings? Personally - and this may not be thing your thing - I would be depressed in the suburbs or a more rural area. Do you connect with your community? Are you bored? Boredom was a huge anxiety and depression trigger for me. Is there somewhere else you’d rather be? What would help you feel like you had more opportunities? Perhaps it’s less about where you live and more about something else. What do you think?

I stumbled upon a Reddit post many years ago during my dark times with a list of reasons to not commit suicide. Some people were offended that it involved minor activities. “Since when is eating ice cream during the summer going to cure someone from depression?” But as someone who once had a major depressive disorder diagnosis myself, it’s exactly what I needed to hear because I do in fact live for the little things, and I think that’s been my saving grace. I may not be able to fix everything I’m unhappy with right now, but I can go grab an Earth cake pop at Starbucks, call a friend or FaceTime my nephews with stupid filters, and just feel better. Maybe an episode of South Park from 1998 will have me laughing in a matter of minutes. I don’t put pressure on myself to achieve every goal today and I’m in a place I truly love. Such moments give me the relief required to take a deep breathe and muster up the energy to do the bigger work the next day. Antidepressants can certainly help other people, but like you, I was failed by a lot of the traditional MDD treatments.

I apologize if this all sounds trivial or not relevant. I’m focusing on this because the posts above all contain great advice and many of the same things I’d say. Is there anyone you enjoy talking to? What mindset do the people around you have about their thirties and goals? Is the pressure of being “happy” or fulfilling specific goals weighing you down?

No pressure to respond if this isn’t fitting. You’re not alone and it’s not uncommon to feel this way about goals being less achievable over time.

I have tried many different environments, big cities, rural areas, and everything in between. I thought I needed nature and quiet, I moved to a cabin on top of a mountain in New Mexico. I thought I needed excitement and music and socializing, I moved to the French Quarter in New Orleans. San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, London, Montana, Colorado, Southeast Asia. Different jobs, hobbies, social life, exercise regimes, diets, habits. Cities, mountains, the desert, the tropics, a sailboat in the San Francisco Bay. Nothing changes. And now I'm back in my parents' house. Yes I am bored, unfulfilled, worried about the passage of time. I have tried my damndest to address those things, in the hope that addressing those might be both an end in itself and a way to negate the 'need' for pain and depression. But it has not worked that way. I think the causality runs in the other direction. The depression and pain predate my inability to piece together a fulfilling, meaningful, enjoyable life. I can't find joy because I'm in pain and depressed with no hope of the alleviation of either. Not the other way around. It doesn't matter how many ice cream cones or funny videos I string together. I don't feel 'pressure to be happy.' I feel unhappy. Searingly unhappy.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

Same here. In worst days it's 6/10, usually 5/10, sometimes 4/10. But it's like having someone constantly screaming to your ear. Is it disabling you? No, you can still do everything you want. But nothing is fun when someone is screaming to you constantly. It's nearly impossible to ignore it though, and you kinda forced to listen to it. On one side it's bad that someone if feeling the same thing, but on the other hand it's kinda giving me comfort that while our symptoms are different - our feeling are very similiar, and I'm not the only one in the world feeling like that

Yes, I hate it when someone (invariably someone who has never experienced chronic pain) says "but you can physically do whatever you want. Who cares about a little uncomfortable sensation? It's not even that bad!" If people can be driven to the brink by tinnitus, which is in most cases neither painful nor dangerous, then how is it that people can struggle to understand that constant permanent pain might, uh ... suck. It's like having the flu forever or something. The flu is painful, but it's not excruciatingly painful. It's probably not even 6/10 pain most of the time. But it's miserable. It makes it damn near impossible to feel at ease, let alone feel joy, contentment, whatever. And that only lasts a week. This is a flu that just never ends. I don't know how to live with it. Or increasingly, why to live with it. I'm sorry Kozas that you understand all too well what I'm saying. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

I don't want to hijack this thread again, but what when pain is pretty much the only really bad thing in your life? I'm exactly the same age as eskimo, I have constant pain and that's only thing holding me up. I have plenty of goals, but to be honest even archieving them is not that fun because, well I'm constantly in pain. I was depressed through my twenties, thanks to mindfulness meditation I learned to 'live with my pain' but it's daily, hourly, or even minute by minute, second by second struggle. I watch Dan Buglio video and yeah I can be opptimistic and don't think about pain. For 2 minutes. Maybe 5. But then, I think about it again.
Recently I found science study, when they found out that pain from reflux can be written in neural pathways(I have abdominal and teeth/jaw pain). And I'm pretty sure it's what happened to me, bad doctors cured my reflux after two years(I found better one and she gave me pills that were much more effective for reflux), my reflux was gone but pain not. So at least that's that. But I still struggle to not think about pain, or be neutral to it, even when I live wonderful life. I don't want to die, like I wanted in my 20's but pain severely impacts my life nonetheless.

Yea my concern isn't really that I haven't achieved my goals or that time is passing me by. It's that I know exactly why that's been the case, and I don't see any reason to hope that these reasons are going anywhere. I have achieved some things over this time, but they barely registered because I have much, much more pressing concerns. I don't feel anything really from these successes because it feels like what difference does it make if I'm still in constant pain and believe I always will be.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

This is insane. I've been a member of this forum since May 2014. I've posted over 400 messages and started over 50 threads. Every single one of those threads, going back 7 years now, is exactly the same. "I'm miserable. I can't take this anymore. TMS isn't working. What the f*** am I doing wrong?"

Why in the world would I keep doing this? THIS HAS NEVER WORKED! I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY - ANY!!!! - SUCCESS WITH THIS TMS STUFF!!!

I feel like an idiot.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

I’ve heard it all before. I can’t live with this