1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this link: http://go.tmswiki.org/newprogram
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What else is there - Seriously

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by eskimoeskimo, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    I find switching between top down and bottom up (somatic and cognitive) helps reinforce good feelings from both sides
    RogueWave likes this.
  2. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    Acceptance is like a moment to pause before you make a decision. A quick time out like thing
  3. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    Basically I look at my bugs and find the best new approach I can. If you can't figure out why you're hurting, you can put down a breakpoint, and pursue a gentle soothing distraction for a little bit. It's about being kind to yourself by doing yourself right, pushing the envelope of discomfort ever so slightly. I like to think of it as "incremental development" when it comes to the repetitive thought or habit parts and allowing is good for feelings.
  4. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    I'm heading elsewhere. Good luck everyone
  5. Mark1122

    Mark1122 Well known member

    For example, about 6 weeks ago i was really really convinced again that i must have TMS. I had an MRI of shoulder and back and had an EMG i also had an EKG twice and a heart monitor for 2 days.

    So i started a new job, for 3 days a week just to not overdo it. I picked up a guitar, something i really thought before i shouldnt because of my RSI like symptoms. Even though i still had pain ofcourse and still had decent brainfog etc. All went well my pain increased slowly i slowly got more tired but it didnt matter and i felt great. I worked! i played guitar! I even went jogging regularly even though feeling worse which i never tried before. I always went jogging when i quit activity that caused symptoms (for me behind pc, mobile etc) but now i did it at the same time! Did it go as well? no it didn't because i was a lot more tired but i was so happy i said to myself you are running and resuming activity at the same time, great job! The other good part was me not having a lot of anxiety which was great, because i didn't fear the pc etc because i have TMS.

    Well the pain got worse, the exhaustion/brain fog etc got worse, my heart reacted to this by having episodes. I still went on with full believe also still jogging. But then i started to get extreme vertigo almost passing out everything spinning and i got a huge panic attack which i told myself during: its nothing, its just some panic etc, but it didnt stop and it went full blown life fearing panic attack, wouldnt wish it my worst enemies (so to say). I must say at that point i did break again, because what am i going to do ? I feel like complete shit, my heart is reacting like crazy, my panic is back a bit. No i am going to keep this going i wont quit again, put on your shoes and go jog you can do it. Well it went okay ish but had another panic attack. Because my heart reacts a lot i have pain in my left jaw and arm and pressure on my chest, i know probably still a panic attack but it does happen i cant seem to stop that and im not trying to either since this only makes it worse i know that as well. But these symptoms come i cant stop that.

    I just dont know how i can keep going? Like i dont think its physically possible im falling asleep all the time i can barely think anymore, my heart acts up annoyingly. Plus at work i cant have these massive panic attacks obviousely how to live my life as i have TMS with these symptoms, which get a lot less when i stop using my pc etc gradually getting better. But only like 50-60% better. But when i stop i keep myself in this circle? But how do i get past this all?

    I must say that my heart does really scare me again a bit, thats probably bad but i guess i dont really want to die yet even tho i thought so sometimes if i have to deal with all these symptoms. You start to think what if this immense pain and exhaustion is reflecting on my (probably healthy) heart and it gets too much, since it does raelly act up weird a lot. Flutters (sortof electrical shocks), palpitations etc. How do i move on? I am always stuck at this point i really dont know how im able to move past it.

    I wanted to post that here because theres so much good conversation about TMS and i do feel better reading these info pieces but it still doesnt get me past this point of mine, maybe some one knows this point, some one who has been at a similar point. Its all good talking about general ways to deal with TMS but this is my exact point where i get stuck all the time, it might be nice to ook at a real life case i dont know and it would help me a lot obviously.

    Does someone just keeps going? Living their life? How long can u keep full faith when it feels like you are dieing, how is it even possible to live your normal life when things get so bad that you cant look straight cant think straight and have panic attacks outside?

    Always the same: resume activity with full faith and no fear -> pain gets worse -> getting more tired(probably logical when in pain) -> adrenaline kicks in (probably logical when tired) -> stomach bloats/ heart palpitations (probably logical due to adrenaline) -> Panic attacks feeling like complete shit, exhausted and losing faith due to fear of life.
  6. Kozas

    Kozas Peer Supporter

    And good luck to you too. I hope that you find something that brings you at least some relief.
    Marls and BloodMoon like this.
  7. Idearealist

    Idearealist Peer Supporter

    Good luck. I hope you find improvement somehow
    RogueWave and BloodMoon like this.
  8. tgirl

    tgirl Well known member

    To anyone who would be so kind as to answer this (RogueWave, Miffybunny). I think my situation has gone on a long time as I ruminate and fixate on it. Essentially my mind is in a loop. I’ve had many other mind/body issues in the past that have resolved. I really want to put an end to all of this and honestly I think I understand the concepts enough to achieve this. My question is as follows: I really have changed my attitude to my sensations and haven’t been ‘freaking out’ and so on. I’m being quite positive, but this attitude is fairly recent (I’ve been positive in the past, but I think I still had an underlying fear). Would it be normal for it to take awhile for everything to settle down even with a positive attitude? I don’t think I’m feeding my body cortisol and adrenaline like I used to. But as I said this is recent.
  9. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes it does take awhile for the brain to shift and consistency and patience are key! The body has a tendency to lag behind a little as well. ALL that matters is your response to symptoms and triggers. Not going into the fear response and not allowing them to preoccupy you for more than a couple of seconds. It takes a lot of practice and repetition in the beginning.
    RogueWave and tgirl like this.
  10. RogueWave

    RogueWave Well known member

    Totally agreed. The deeper parts of the brain aren’t usually meant to change deeply quickly, because if things changed in there changed quickly all the time, we’d all go insane.

    I always wanted to know ‘well, exactly how long will this take?’, but there is no way to know. I just remember it happening in bits and pieces until
    feeling good became new ‘normal’.

    So steer the course! Sounds like you are already on your way :)
    tgirl likes this.
  11. RogueWave

    RogueWave Well known member

    @Mark1122 Would you mind providing a bit more history? As far back in your life as you’d like to go, or course.
  12. Kozas

    Kozas Peer Supporter

    @RogueWave Eskimo decided to try something else, but I want to believe not only that my problem is TMS but that I can heal too. Do you have any advice for person with constant pain? I don't remember how it is to be pain free, and yes I'm thinking about pain almost constantly too, but how to change it? It's always on my mind. It's like mosquito flying near you, when you want to sleep - how can you really ignore it? Sometimes I can ignore it for minute, or two or five, but that's usually my breaking point. Even when I'm doing something else, working, working out, driving, pain is always on my mind(like in the pet shop boys song, to bad that it's pain and not girl ;))
  13. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    It's actually not about "ignoring" the sensations...that's not realistic in the beginning. It's really about remaining calm in the face of them.. You can notice but respond to them and engage with them in a different way...an unconcerned way. Not worrying about them whatsoever since they are harmless and meaningless and just "learned pain" coming from the brain. The more you communicate to the the brain that you're unphased and you are safe, the faster the brain loses it's grip over the tms strategy. In other words, it doesn't feel like you are in any danger so need to keep sending you signals to "alert" you. The sensations of pain or whatever...are messengers. They are there to make you go inward and ask what you are feeling and thinking. The more you can practice shifting from the physical to the psychological (consistently), the faster the brain gets the message you're "safe'. The danger alarm stops going off. Think of it like a smoke detector setting off an alarm but there's no fire...just a faulty battery. Take out the battery and it will stop making noise.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
    Balsa11 likes this.
  14. RogueWave

    RogueWave Well known member

    Agreed! It’s a process, but diffusing the reactions is imperative.

    When I have patients in extreme pain, who are open to TMS but who are in too much pain to get ahead of it, I’ll give them a mild NSAID with the understanding that it’s just a short-term band-aid. But calming the pain that way can help them pull out the pain/stress loop.

    Like Miffy said, it may not be possible to ignore the pain at first. But you can, like Balsa, just start working on re-training your body and mind to relax, even in the midst of pain. It is possible with work.

    I remember driving down the open highway in the Summer when things were at their worst, and even though it should have been a relaxing experience, I kept finding myself with a death-grip on the wheel, clenching my jaw, and other things like that. Not pain, but manifestations of habituated tension nonetheless! It’s amazing what you find when you start to pay attention!
    So I’d catch myself and relax. I’d even send myself reminders on my phone to breathe, undo, relax, etc. After awhile it just becomes more automatic until you break the cycle.

    As an aside, but to add to the point, ever since I’ve recovered I’ve made it a point to take ice baths several days a week. There are physical benefits to this, but I use it to train my mind. I purposely put my body in a very uncomfortable, stressful situation, and deep breathe through it, teaching my body to relax even in that hostile environment. So even in an intense environment, calmness is possible.

    Have you ever read Ace1’s Keys to Healing from the TMShelp forum? He’s an oncologist who had severe pain issues, and cured them with a TMS approach. If you haven’t, here’s the post: http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7765 (TMSHelp Forum - Repeating the keys to healing)

    Again, note the repetition of the idea of using different methods to shift out of fear/tension. There isn’t one magic bullet :)
    Idearealist, BloodMoon and Balsa11 like this.
  15. Kozas

    Kozas Peer Supporter

    Thank you both. I've reread Ace1's Keys to Healing many times already, reading is easy, what's hard is putting that information into practice.
  16. Mark1122

    Mark1122 Well known member

    Hm well,

    I know within my family showing love and affection was not something we did. Also school was the most important thing there was and if doing well in school there was some affection in the form of recognition. But in my case it was mostly negativity about me because i didn't always do good in school. In the end i did finish one of the highest degrees in high school there was but it wasn't alot of fun for me. Also i know my sister (still is) cold as ice like if i wanted to hug her when i was little she would reject me always and i could never play with her and her friends. They teased me too.

    I was still pretty self confident i think till 9-10 years where i got bullied at soccer practise i know that must have had a big negative effect on me because after that i always thought about what people would think of me and i was scared to be outside and meet new people scared not to fit in which ofcourse made it so that i didn't fit in. I also know that in university i didn't even try to connect with people and told myself it was because they weren't my kind of people, but the fact was just that i was too scared to contact someone probably fear of rejection. I quit the first year in uni and went alot on a social chat thing to get in contact with people and also drank every day to ghet the confidence to do so. Here the alcohol abuse really started at age of 18.

    I guess the rest of the story if needed to read is here: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/new-symptom-sortof.23938/ (New symptom (sortof))

    The thing is i know these things i thought about them i work on them with a psychologist but symptoms have only gotten worse for me. With the worst part really being the exhaustion and heart palpitations, when things are bad i feel my heart all the time and it feels uncomfortable, not even talking about the flutters and skipped beats (which feels as such) but i guess it must be because of the high tension in my body since my stomach is realllllyy bloated as well then. So must be sortof anxiety.

    While typing this my pain shoots up in level and i get dizzy and tired feeling i notice.

    But yeah if anybody had an idea how i can keep going i like to hear, maybe better to react on that topic i pasted in this post. Im just stuck once again with fear taking over again i must admit.

    One last thing i drove to work yesterday and i was so dizzy and it makes me so tired. Its only 20minutes driving but due to me already being broken i cant even handle a 20minute drive i really think it was dangerous for me to drive. Then i had some panic and sadly had to take some benzo whichi didnt use for a few months. The benzo makes my pain less and makes me less tired and less panicy (obviously haha)
    RogueWave likes this.
  17. RogueWave

    RogueWave Well known member

    @Mark1122 I’m currently dealing with same family-related issues, so my posts will be minimal until I have more time.

    That being said, I’d like to hear in your own words an explanation of what is going on with you. I’m asking this because I want to see where your understanding is at before suggesting anything else.

    And besides counseling, what else have you tried? Be as specific as possible, please.
  18. Mark1122

    Mark1122 Well known member

    Ah okay no worries, you got to deal with that first for sure, hope you figure that out!

    I don't know anymore. Or i have TMS or something in my right tapezius/ upper right back is wrong radiating through ulnar nerve r something causing exhaustion and thus adrenaline = anxiety and heart palpitations? I guess it's TMS but i doubt sometimes.

    Ive been to chiropractor, orthomanual, multiple fysio's, nerve specialist who did some tests and an EMG of my right arm (ullnar nerve i think), multiple psychiatrists (1 where i finally stuck now looking at old painds), doctors. Ive had 2x EKG and 1 x heart monitor at home. I had MRI on right shoulder and spine. Which were all fine. Ive been in a treatment in hospital for chronique pain a couple of months working with an ergonomic person and a fysio and psychiatrist. And ive been in rehab clinic a few years ago.
  19. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi @Mark1122 ,

    I responded to you in the "New Symptom (sort of) thread. Hopefully I answered some of your concerns there asa starting point. :)
    RogueWave likes this.
  20. richard13

    richard13 Peer Supporter

    This thread has been interesting (thanks all), and speaks to the complexity of the mind/body and healing (or not). The entry of diabetes into the discussion thread reminded me of a fascinating case study of patients with Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly Multiple Personality) in which a patient's physiological condition (blood sugar level, or blood pressure, or visual acuity) would change immediately as they entered another of their alter personality states -- one that was diabetic, or hypertensive, or myopic. In another study, researchers monitored the brain scans of a patient with DID who could instantaneously switch to an alter personality state that experienced blindness, and all the brain activity in the visual processing area would immediately cease despite the person's eyes being open. It was mental/psychological phenomena like this that helped reinforce the TMS paradigm for me. Funny, I guess I did enter an alter personality state, but consciously (and certainly not immediately :banghead:, though eventually more compassionately:)), into one that no longer needs to create chronic pain (think I'll try to stay there!).

    OK, this might be a stretch, but the diabetes discussion also brought up for me a rough analogy to TMS in that Type 1 diabetes, in which the mechanism for making insulin is messed up, may be more in line with the "structural" etiology of chronic pain, and the more prevalent, Type 2, may be more in line with the "psychological" etiology of chronic pain, since emotional states, mind habits, etc. play a role. And oddly, in a similar ratio for both diabetes and chronic pain: roughly about 5% for the one state, and around 95% for the other.

    It will be a lovely day when the knowledge of that ratio for chronic pain becomes well known and the treatment for it becomes guided by that knowledge!
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021

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