What else is there - Seriously

[BloodMoon]

This thread has been interesting (thanks all), and speaks to the complexity of the mind/body and healing (or not). The entry of diabetes into the discussion thread reminded me of a fascinating case study of patients with Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly Multiple Personality) in which a patient's physiological condition (blood sugar level, or blood pressure, or visual acuity) would change immediately as they entered another of their alter personality states -- one that was diabetic, or hypertensive, or myopic. In another study, researchers monitored the brain scans of a patient with DID who could instantaneously switch to an alter personality state that experienced blindness, and all the brain activity in the visual processing area would immediately cease despite the person's eyes being open.

Especially interesting to read that they could switch to an altered personality state that experienced blindness. I know someone who was diagnosed with so called 'functional disorder' https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/fnd/ (Functional Neurological Disorder - NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders)) - she's gone blind in one eye and partially blind in the other eye for no apparent physical reason. Tests apparently determined that she should be able to see properly, but she can't.

 

[richard13]

I know someone who was diagnosed with so called 'functional disorder' https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/fnd/ (Functional Neurological Disorder - NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders))

Thanks BloodMoon. That article is encouraging in that the FND field seems to have a more holistic understanding of the phenomena, and has evolved beyond its psychodynamic origins (in a similar way, maybe, as the TMS understanding of chronic pain has evolved) Not surprisingly, chronic pain and other TMS equivalents accompany FND, which itself may be one. The treatment of retraining the brain and looking at the emotional role seems the same. Smiled at the historical note that the disorder had been neglected by clinicians/researchers since no physical findings (MRI, EEG, etc.) Am glad all of this is getting more open minded attention.

I hope that the person you referenced is able to regain their eyesight.

 

[Dorado]

@eskimoeskimo, what’s up? How are you feeling now? Please remember that you belong here as much as anyone else and we are always here to help! Happy to talk through anything.

 

[RogueWave]

Ive been to chiropractor, orthomanual, multiple fysio's, nerve specialist who did some tests and an EMG of my right arm (ullnar nerve i think), multiple psychiatrists (1 where i finally stuck now looking at old painds), doctors. Ive had 2x EKG and 1 x heart monitor at home. I had MRI on right shoulder and spine. Which were all fine. Ive been in a treatment in hospital for chronique pain a couple of months working with an ergonomic person and a fysio and psychiatrist. And ive been in rehab clinic a few years ago.

Thanks for the thorough background. Do you mind if I ask what the rehab was for..? Also, you’ve mentioned TMS, but then you listed quite a few other docs and imagings and you’ve had, so where does TMS fall into the timeline? Is it the most recent thing you’ve done, or was it somewhere in the middle of all this?

 

[Mark1122]

Thanks for the thorough background. Do you mind if I ask what the rehab was for..? Also, you’ve mentioned TMS, but then you listed quite a few other docs and imagings and you’ve had, so where does TMS fall into the timeline? Is it the most recent thing you’ve done, or was it somewhere in the middle of all this?

TMS was before the MRI of my back and the EMG but after everything else. Rehab was for alcohol, sleeping pills (benzo's/valium), gambling

The weird thing is when i grab my right elbow with left hand and hold myu elbow straight infront of me at the same height of my shoulder and then press outwards and a bit up while holding it steady with my left hand my shoulder head hurts like a *******. IS that normal with TMS? And with the pain getting a lot worse i start to get dizzy.

I must note that my right shoulder was dislocated 4-5 years ago. There was a dent in my shoulder head on the photo back then but the doctor said that isnt a problem.

 

[TrustIt]

Miffybunny, I’m wondering if you developed anxiety when you had your symptoms. I think I became so upset and obsessed about my sensations that I developed really bad anxiety in addition to the symptoms. It was probably underlying for years, but man it’s awful and it’s difficult to get rid of. It all becomes so much. People probably heal differently, but I’m not sure how I’m supposed to do it yet.

I developed anxiety on top of sinus and digestive issues. Then was diagnosed with a thyroid disorder. Anxiety is fear and affects the adrenal glands putting the body into fight flight. What is helping me most right now is doing things that balance the cortisol that is being produced. It's basic. There are other things one can do but what works for me is taking Holy Basil morning and evening. Also magnesium at bedtime. This has made it easier for me personally to shift my focus and calm my mind enough to address it all as TMS. We are all just looking for relief and if a natural plant can help with at least some of it, I say try it. And keep telling your body you are ok.

 

[TrustIt]

Hi @RogueWave ,

Yes Joe Dispenza delves into this topic in "Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself" and "You Are the Placebo". I definitely took away a few gems from his work while going through the process.

I had the same thought about Joe Dispenza's work. Some of the points @RogueWave makes I also learned from several workshops with Dr Joe and his books. Thank you @RogueWave for your excellent thoughtful and helpful posts! Thank you too @miffybunny!

 

[eskimoeskimo]

@eskimoeskimo, what’s up? How are you feeling now? Please remember that you belong here as much as anyone else and we are always here to help! Happy to talk through anything.

Thank you for chiming in Dorado. I’m feeling so lost and dejected. It is nice that so many people try to help. But I’ve been doing this for so long. The pain has never lessened in all these years. I’m not sure I should visit here anymore. I tried again to delete my account but no one gets back to me. I’ve been in pain for so long. I can remember posting essentially the same despairing message to this same site ... a year ago, 2 years ago, 7 years ago! Do I know anything more about TMS now than I did then? Not really, no. Not getting better when TMS people keep telling me it’s possible - for me too - has been torturous. I do not know how to coexist with these symptoms, this pain, this despair. If my parents weren’t alive I’d end it all without hesitation. Where can I go from here? The pain is too great.

 

[Balsa11]

I'm sorry you're still struggling. If any, what psych meds have you tried? Also, what's your sleep pattern and physical activity usually like? Try to take more mental rest breaks and have a healthy lifestyle. Please don't get bogged in depression, it makes pain linger. Your mental health can affect your physical health so please don't go it all alone.

 

[Balsa11]

I do not know what you mean by "give the body an ideal internal environment."

Is this choosing different thoughts and feelings? Isn't that the exact opposite of what Claire Weekes and Abraham Low advocate?

It's finding positive sensory cues, like visualizing something happy or doing something that makes you happy, and truly enjoying it. Even naps or distractions are nice if done in an easygoing and lighthearted matter.

One thing that helps me with unexpected flare-ups is imagining myself feeling so light that there is no "weight" on my shoulders in terms of sensation.

Also thinking of what is going right in my body, ie body gratitude was and still is really eye opening for me. This is like reframing without trying to reframe! Our bodies can teach us so much if we're willing to listen!

Even spacing out for a few seconds can lift the fog, and the pain shifts, and you realize it's TMS again. Basically your mood becomes an indicator of mindbody pain so they're cuing each other.

 

[Balsa11]

I do not understand the leap from saying that health has much more to do with 'environment' than mainstream medicine yet tends to recognize, to saying that the relevant 'environment' here is a kind of psychological environment. In fact you go further than that, to describe the relevant environment here as a kind of psychological precursor ... a sort of fundamental outlook or frame of being which is itself a kind of antecedent even to psychology. I don't get how you get there from what you said about environment and homeostasis. Couldn't the relevant 'environment' be an environment of inflammation or nutritional imbalance or rampant yeast or a dearth of dopamine etc. I suppose you'll say that all of these too would be downstream of some fundamental psychological environment. But I'm not seeing how you get to that conclusion with such certainty.

Forgive if I'm misunderstanding you. I'm sure I am. But to say that to get better from chronic pain or anxiety or depression, "you have to change who you are as person, for a majority of the day" strikes me as implausible. Is this any different from the "push through it," "stiff upper lip" modality which was so prevalent for so many decades and, I think, added to the suffering of so many? Aren't outlooks and thoughts themselves subject to the influence of environment and brain chemistry and disease? Isn't this one of the epiphanies of mindfulness meditation: that we are not the author of our thoughts? I don't view thoughts as some neutral territory where we can just choose to think what we like and then over time reap the benefits of choosing better thoughts. CBT for example is a kind of indirect way of affecting our thought patterns over the long term. But it's nowhere near as simple as saying 'be a different person until I feel like a person who is better.' I do not believe that we have it in our gift to make ourselves anew everyday like you say. I think we are very much subject to the constraints and of our body and environment. Can we affect who we are with intention over time? I guess, to an extent. But if you're telling me that the way for me to get out of chronic pain and depression is to start being today, this minute, every minute, a person who is not in chronic pain and depression ... then I don't really know what you're saying.

The one key difference is relaxing rather than just pushing through. The key is to find a balance between taking mental rest breaks and life as normal. Listen to your gut. Every day will be different.

 

[TrustIt]

Sorry everyone

i don't think you need to apologize. you have stated your case, your frustration, very clearly and are obviously intelligent and articulate and sincerely looking for help. i don't see you as negative and argumentative as much as desperate and probably depressed. and, as someone has already said, you have started a helluva thread here! i know i am getting something from it and i'm sure others are as well. i think it's healthy to bring up what is deep and real for each of us, whether anyone else agrees or not. we are all here, hopefully, to help each other find relief....however that is accomplished. we can't help being interested in resolving any pain and discomfort we are experiencing, and the more severe it is, the more interested we become bc we NEED to figure it out! that "interest" keeps us locked in and instead of getting what we want, we get what we focus on (i.e. are most interested in). i posted something to that effect in another post, but it gave me a lightbulb moment. i wish you the best, eskimoeskimo. what if you just try to establish the belief that "it is possible" to heal, rather than trying to convince your stubborn subconscious that you absolutely will. it obviously doesn't believe you quite yet. i hear you!!!! hang in there!

 

[Balsa11]

In that sense, distractions and interests are useful as long as they are truly fulfilling and not just a means to a end pain wise.

If a belief is too vague, it's fun to look for real evidence, like moments of calm, natural healing from little scratches, mindset shifts, and the somatic stuff taught by Alan Gordon here.

 

[TrustIt]

It's amazing when your brain finally recognizes and remembers again that joy is homeostasis, but it takes practice to stay that way. Pay attention to when it happens

yes JOY!!! when one is in pain, there is bound to be some depression and anxiety. i'm not sure if anyone really escapes that. and depression alone robs us of our joy. i know that is exactly what has happened to me. the worse i felt, the more depressed i became, the less motivation i had for ANYTHING i use to enjoy. enjoy - in joy - that led to a vicious catch 22. eventually i found myself just getting through another day. that's no way to live. it's a way to die.

 

[TrustIt]

Yes, but what about
"I tried the TMS work and it didn't work!"
You: "Ok, then we can rule out TMS as a cause"

You know that body and mind is so complex that we barely know how it really functions... what if somebody tried anti-inflammantories but dose was too low? What if dose was okay, but he/she should take it for longer? What if those specific anti-inflammantories were not working, but other anti-inflammantory drugs would work? What if there was some other problem when the person was taking anti-inflammantory and that's why it didn't helped then, but maybe they would work now? What if there are new anti-inflammantory drugs that works better?

wow, one can "what-if" themselves into a lot of trouble, kozas! that mind that wants to stay in the future to hopefully avoid any unpleasantness, leaves the "now" moment vacant and things only change NOW. chemicals in the body that are generated by the mind are occurring NOW. the mind always wants to time travel....back to ruminate over regrets, or forward to anticipate events - positive and negative. either way, the are all stories since neither is happening NOW. the brain can not distinguish between a real event and one you are creating in your mind. it's always NOW for the brain. so either will activate the chemicals that then help or harm homeostasis.

 

[TrustIt]

I can tell that you, like Eskimo, are intelligent and analytical. Normally this is a good thing, but with TMS it can work against you (it definitely did with me...Try having WebMD in your head!). As Dr. Abraham Low stated, over-analysis and self diagnosis are 2 of the biggest ways to sabotage healing, because they perpetuate the cycle we are trapped in.

oh my, yes! i am an information junkie and i know that my knowledge alone can keep me from experiencing. sometimes i say "i just know too much!" knowledge is a wonderful thing, but until you apply it, it's not worth penny. try swimming from reading books. reading tms books is the same in that we have to DO IT!

 

[TrustIt]

Secondly, you are entirely incorrect about the brain being ‘malleable’ only to small degree. It’s more than I can type, but you want to look into neuroplasticity, psychoneuroimmunolgy, and epigenetics. They are all newer areas of science that point to mind/body connections and possibility.

yes...dr. joe dispenza and bruce lipton are out front, imo, with these things you mention @RogueWave. so much of your advice is covered in their books and videos. thank you for bringing it to more people's attention as it is new to many.

 

[Idearealist]

wow, one can "what-if" themselves into a lot of trouble, kozas! that mind that wants to stay in the future to hopefully avoid any unpleasantness, leaves the "now" moment vacant and things only change NOW. chemicals in the body that are generated by the mind are occurring NOW. the mind always wants to time travel....back to ruminate over regrets, or forward to anticipate events - positive and negative. either way, the are all stories since neither is happening NOW. the brain can not distinguish between a real event and one you are creating in your mind. it's always NOW for the brain. so either will activate the chemicals that then help or harm homeostasis.

Most definitely. I feel like I'm the King of what-ifs and "yes, buts."

 

[miffybunny]

yes...dr. joe dispenza and bruce lipton are out front, imo, with these things you mention @RogueWave. so much of your advice is covered in their books and videos. thank you for bringing it to more people's attention as it is new to many.

This! When we are kids and learn to ride a bike, we don't analyze...there's a letting go and a leap of faith that we don't fall off our bike. Intellectualizing is a common defense mechanism to cope with anxiety but it just keeps us stuck.

 

[Mark1122]

This! When we are kids and learn to ride a bike, we don't analyze...there's a letting go and a leap of faith that we don't fall off our bike. Intellectualizing is a common defense mechanism to cope with anxiety but it just keeps us stuck.

Yeah i guess that might be my problem too. When i first got anxiety i didnt evn have heart palpitations or this exhaustion and i still was scared of my heart. Now i do have a lot of symptoms and i try to have faith in being healthy i even went jogging again yesterday, while feeling at my worst ever, with good faith but it still went wrong. Did i not believe enough? My heart started acting up and i was dizzy and i stopped running and got a bit scared. Once home i felt sick and was very light headed and dizzy. I felt like passing out a couple of times, the only thing that worked was sitting with my head in the palm of my hands for 15-20minutes until i got a bit better.

But yeah i did get scared again and doubted if i was really healthy it's so hard... Because i feel that if im wrong about this i could die because i wear out my body so much.

I just can't have this blind faith, i can, but after stuff gets too bad i lose it again.

Maybe i should go jog with valium in my system or something i dont know anymore, i even think about doing a stress test to see if it's in my head so to speak. Because if i'm wrong i feel like it could go really bad for me.