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The Presence Process - Share Experiences & Ask Questions

I have no addiction to the drug otherwise I wouldn't have leftover pills in the drawer. I'm not keen on taking any drugs. Over the last year I have been taking less and less of my migraine reliever drug. It'll be a major achievement when I can avoid them altogether. There's something stopping me throwing these pills out though. Fear? As for other addictions I would say food was mine. Eating is definitely my way of suppressing the discomfort Brown talks about. I think it will take more than a 10 week stint to sort that out.

I hadn't thought about messages being an opportunity for growth until I read the book. I could recognise that certain people would push my buttons but I hadn't ever linked the emotions I felt to the past. I was too caught up in the drama.

Speaking of which I have to do my 15 minutes breathing. It's nearly bedtime in my country. ;)
 
I enjoy reading about your experiences. Thanks!

That's good to hear you aren't addicted to that drug. That's a particularly difficult one to deal with, I hear.

Yeah, fear would be the only thing keeping the migraine drug from being thrown out. But I'm guessing that you'll resolve that emotional pattern at some point and eventually realize you don't need it anymore. So it's probably no big deal.

Food's a tricky one. I'm a tall, skinny guy, so it's not so obvious that I use food to stuff emotions sometimes. I knew I did, to some extent. Realization got into my heart the other day, though, so I stopped eating my snack that I usually have after dinner. I'm always conflicted about removing some of my food intake, because I drop some pounds off of me when that happens. I like my normal weight, but it seems like I get a little too skinny when I don't eat as much. Oh well. I suppose that's just fear.
 
Hey everyone, I've just joined this forum, probably because I am going through 'confusion' at the moment. Even though there is a voice saying I should stop discussing about my experiences (as PP suggests), it feels safe to speak here . I've completed 2 sessions so far. My last one ended less than a month ago. Brian, I believe we might be on the same track:). For now I only want to say hi and break the ice, as I see the discussion stopped last month. I was wondering when will you start your 3rd Brian?
 
Bogdan,

Great to have you!

So you've completed two PPs. That's some good progress! It's always good to hear about others' experiences with the process.

I've had the same thought about "maybe I shouldn't be sharing my experiences so much." I had that thought around the last part of my 2nd process. However, I didn't take too much stock in the thought, because I know that this is a slow process and things will work their way out. I discuss this stuff so I can share with others, and I discuss it to get more info on it. Sometimes, more info helps me in my process. Now, I will say, there is a part of me that discusses this stuff to feel better about myself, too. And that's what I'm dealing with now in my 3rd presence process.

I'm currently on Week 4 in this 3rd process. I'll give an update in my next post.

Confusion is good. It means some emotions are processing causing the confusion. I'm not sure how much confusion I've experienced during this process, because I'm not always certain what "confusion" entails. All I know is that when I'm not sure what to do, or I'm feeling like I'm not making progress, I just keep going and keep doing what I've been doing. Sometimes, I'll get impulses to do certain things, and I'll follow those impulses if I sense that they're healthy. I'll share one of those impulses in my next post. But generally, I just keep on doing what I've been doing. If a person is solely wanting to use a group for support, that's not a problem. Because if his addiction is to the support, he simply sets his intent to resolve the emotional signature causing it, then stretches out how often he uses the support. Pretty simple. I'll share how I finally overcame my big addiction in the next post.
 
UPDATE: WEEK 4, 3RD PRESENCE PROCESS (Addiction Resolved!)

So, I started my 3rd PP with a private group of guys online. But they were starting sooner than expected. In stead of my 3-week break, I only got a 1-week break between PPs. But check out what happened...

I was feeling kind of like I wasn't making progress, because my addiction was still happening. It was a little discouraging. The second PP we do is usually when we address whatever our major addiction is. Mine was porn and masturbation addiction. I remembered reading in TPP that an addiction that's lasted a really long time may take quite a while to resolve. So, I reminded myself that I'd had this addiction since I was 12 (23 years), and it would probably take a while. I'd been limiting myself to once a week. While reading Being Our Companion (the follow-up book to The Presence Process), I saw that Michael Brown talks about addiction and parasitic energetic entities (that's a more Eastern way of saying "demons," but they see them a little differently than we do). They attach to our emotional energy in our heart and drive some of our thoughts and behaviors in order to get a high off of us, more or less. That's what the addiction is about. It's not us. It's not what we want to do. We're being used.

I let that sit in my head and heart for a few days, maybe a week or so, then I commanded out the parasitic entities audibly. I also downloaded this contract that I printed and signed which basically said I was taking back all rights I might have given away to parasitic entities (because we must open ourselves up to let them in). I used to have to deal with parasitic entities in other people regularly for a while, so I was pretty familiar with this stuff. It hadn't worked on me in the past, because I wasn't doing the emotional work required. But now that I was doing the emotional work, I figured it couldn't hurt to try that out. Nothing happened immediately--sometimes the parasitic entities can take up to a week to release while the emotions are processing.

So, I also had an impulse to read a second book about the school Summerhill in England. It's about a school where kids and adults (faculty) are equals, and everyone votes on the rules and no one is made to do anything they don't want to do. It's called a democratic school (or free school). It's mostly a boarding school. It's amazing what being raised in freedom does for children's emotional development. I had started reading this book about the same time all of this was going on. While reading it, some emotions surfaced and I cried a couple of times (that's integration occurring). Then, while listening to music in my car, the music brought out some more of the emotions and they integrated. I laughed and cried happy tears and I could feel my heart in my chest burning (in a good way). After that happened, I noticed that my son no longer triggered my anger, because the anger he was triggering was no longer there. It usually was triggering lots around my son, but it was gone now. I could actually enjoy my son for a change! Now, sure, he still triggers a little bit of my anger, but this other anger he's triggering is very, very minute, so it's hardly affecting me. I also noticed that the impulses to do my addiction weren't coming up anymore either. So, that anger was driving the addiction.

One more thing must be said, though. I remembered that there was always fear underneath anger. So I asked Presence/God to bring out the fear for processing. Some of that processed toward the end of my second PP (right before all of this happened). So, as the fear and anger processed, the addiction went away. Oh, and one other note is that when I started this 3rd PP, I set my intent to connect my breathing and say the conscious response as often as I could think to do it throughout the day. I saw how important that was. That's really helped. All of this has caused me to feel much better and more confident now. It's easier to let emotions surface now, too.

Now, get this--the emotions integrated right around the 3rd-week mark after I finished my 2nd PP. For me, I almost didn't recognize the 3-week break period was ending when these emotions integrated, because I was on Week 2 of my 3rd PP. lol TPP specifically says to take a 3-week break after dealing with an addiction in the second PP. Everything came together perfectly as it needed to and pulled those emotions to the surface so I could integrate them. Life with my son is much easier now, and it's so nice not to have that addiction anymore. What's cool is my next addiction is popping up (it just has to do with insecurity and being liked by people). Now I get to deal with that one, and I'm really excited about that. Seeing one addiction's emotional pattern resolve makes it so exciting to deal with the next one, because I've experienced how it works.

Cool stuff!
 
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Boston Redsox said:
I found all the different weekly affirmations ridiculous. Why we could not do the breathing without those insane mantras
Click to expand...

I laughed knowingly when I read this but all kidding aside here is what Michael Brown says about the mantras or Presence Activation Statements:

Throughout The Presence Process we are given Presence Activation Statements. One of their functions is assisting us to awaken ourselves from this habitual mental dream state. They assist us to build the muscle empowering us to remain mentally present, alert, and conscious. This muscle is built in the same manner we build muscles in the physical body. To build muscles in our physical body we participate in strenuous activities. These activities break down the structure of our muscles. We then relax and allow the muscles to rebuild themselves, to callous. As they do, they take on a form that is bigger and stronger; this is of course as long as the body is provided with sufficient nutrition to support the procedure.

The same procedure unfolds during our repetition of the Presence Activator Statements. When we attend to our mental repetition, we work the mental muscle enabling us to anchor our awareness in the present moment. Then we relax our efforts. This period of relaxation appears as forgetting, or becoming unconscious of our thought processes again. These experiences of forgetting are an essential part of the procedure. By the repetition of remembering and forgetting, and then remembering again, we are building a muscle, a powerful mental muscle. As this mental muscle strengthens it empowers us with the ability to withdraw our attention from where it is anchored to our past or projected future.

The above quote is from Being Our Companion that Brian mentions above. It's sort of like an FAQ for the Presence Process.

Bogdan said:
Hey everyone, I've just joined this forum, probably because I am going through 'confusion' at the moment. Even though there is a voice saying I should stop discussing about my experiences (as PP suggests), it feels safe to speak here .
Click to expand...

BrianC said:
I've had the same thought about "maybe I shouldn't be sharing my experiences so much."
Click to expand...

Welcome, Bogdan. This same issue has crossed my mind more than a few times but it's still a free country so what the heck. I think the confusion you are experiencing involves one's basic resistance. You are not alone. I couldn't make head nor tail of some of the writing during the first read through but decided to just go for it. As I read and go through each week, I feel less confused. If I do feel any resistance I acknowledge that it's all part of the deal and unconditionally accept these feelings along with all of my other ones, be they good or bad.

I'm in Week 7 now, still coming across the messengers and noticing how I react to them. I haven't yet mastered how to respond as opposed to reacting but learning to be patient with the PP. Patience doesn't come naturally to me.

An example: A couple of weeks ago some school boys started to throw objects at the front of my house. Eventually they throw a stone and it broke a window. I monitored the comings and goings of the kids and finally spotted the culprit. I notified the school and police but the latter couldn't do much in terms of the criminal damage because I hadn't seen the boy throw the stone on the day the window got broken. I did not remain calm nor rational during this whole episode. In fact I wrote some rather scathing and defensive emails to the school. I've had all the glass in my front door replaced with much stronger and safer glass (the original shattered and before I knew it was on the floor I stepped on one of the shards). I'm considering having some basic CCTV equipment installed as we've had a history of problems with this school over the years. This is me reacting and not responding.

Amongst all this drama my intent was to feel something. Then I read the activation statement for this week: I feel safe now. So presumably these boys are messengers. As much as I'd like to ring their necks my instructions are not to shoot the messengers but to dismiss them and concentrate on the message (insight):

I am under attack. I feel vulnerable and unprotected.

So this is how it must have felt growing up in a home with one physically violent parent, another parent who turned a blind eye and a sibling with a mental health disorder.

Re: Summerhill School. Brian I happened to meet one of its graduates a few years back. This person had a few life challenges of their own including depression. For a different take on the topic of freedom you might like to listen to the podcast mentioned in this thread
http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/existential-therapy-part-2-freedom.3120/

Well done on resolving your addiction, BTW. I would think the insecurity you are working on now was lurking underneath that addiction. But then again I'm no expert.
 
Getting ready for my 3rd PP.

I began reading the book again. I will start my 3rd PP when I get to the first week chapter. Do you guys re-read the book as I do before you start your PP? Or do you commence simply by reading only the first week instructions and ignore what's written before that in the book?

I'm going through some hard times at the moment because I am integrating my love definition. I came out a long relationship about 7 months ago and suffered from this break up until I met another girl in September. This girl is very beautiful, but she is 7 years younger than me. She is disconnected from her feelings and she always talks about how she doesn't feel anything (she doesn't feel anything for me either). Despite this, I chose to move in with her after just 2 weeks of knowing her. Silly isn't it? We kissed the first day we met, but I could tell she did that out of inertia. She is lonely too. She said she doesn't feel for me but at the same time she doesn't want to lose me because she sees something in me. I knew I will go straight to hell if we move together, since she obviously doesn't love me the way I 'think' I do. So yes, now everything became hellish as she is ignoring me quite a lot and I feel alone and dumped again:)). It's funny in a way, but painful. My mother left me alone many times, so I'm not surprised. We live in the same flat, different rooms, but I got to the point where I can't face her anymore as I see how disconnected she is from me. The feeling is strong. I feel it, but it feels as if will never go away. I feel so alone and hopeless. I also feel old sometimes (27 haha). I have to choose consciously to feel something unbearable. And I do, but I can't deny the fact that I want this to go away, even if I know I should love this feeling.

At the moment I don't know what to do. The more time I spend away from her the worse I feel, but that means I have to ignore her as well. I know she needs me too, I could go to her and love her, she would accept me. However she would never come to me. It's always me who goes to her and re-establishes the connection. But the moment we spend 1 day away from each other, it becomes strange again and we feel disconnected. I tried to talk to her, saying that she could come to me anytime, but she doesn't. I am tired to go to her, I feel as if she uses me.

Well this is just a story, it's irrelevant, but it feels so real. My mind keeps blaming her for becoming so cold and distant after saying she wants to stay next to me. She changed much since we met. She used to call me, text me a lot. Now she stopped and she meets other people, while I remain home alone haha. Never tells me where she goes. Basically we stopped communicating because I wanted to see if she would come to me if I don't go to her. But the strange thing is that if I go to her and give her attention, all comes back to 'normal' for 1-2 days:)).

I am dealing with this feeling of being lonely and dumped for over 7 months now. I completed 2 PPs meanwhile and now I am going into my third. I had long breaks in between, but it feels as if I am stuck and make no progress except that I feel worse (that's good I know). Now I write this here hoping for your support (I am aware of this too). I am still looking for confirmation.

You seem to have integrated your unconscious definition of love much faster Brian:))

Probably it's hard for you to follow my stream of thoughts atm, as I go through confusion and I feel afraid, angry and sad.....so I am going to stop here for now.



Where are you guys from? I'm originally from Romania, but at the moment I live in Edinburgh, UK.
 
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Bogdan said:
Getting ready for my 3rd PP.

I began reading the book again. I will start my 3rd PP when I get to the first week chapter. Do you guys re-read the book as I do before you start your PP? Or do you commence simply by reading only the first week instructions and ignore what's written before that in the book?

I'm going through some hard times at the moment because I am integrating my love definition. I came out a long relationship about 7 months ago and suffered from this break up until I met another girl in September. This girl is very beautiful, but she is 7 years younger than me. She is disconnected from her feelings and she always talks about how she doesn't feel anything (she doesn't feel anything for me either). Despite this, I chose to move in with her after just 2 weeks of knowing her. Silly isn't it? We kissed the first day we met, but I could tell she did that out of inertia. She is lonely too. She said she doesn't feel for me but at the same time she doesn't want to lose me because she sees something in me. I knew I will go straight to hell if we move together, since she obviously doesn't love me the way I 'think' I do. So yes, now everything became hellish as she is ignoring me quite a lot and I feel alone and dumped again:)). It's funny in a way, but painful. My mother left me alone many times, so I'm not surprised. We live in the same flat, different rooms, but I got to the point where I can't face her anymore as I see how disconnected she is from me. The feeling is strong. I feel it, but it feels as if will never go away. I feel so alone and hopeless. I also feel old sometimes (27 haha). I have to choose consciously to feel something unbearable. And I do, but I can't deny the fact that I want this to go away, even if I know I should love this feeling.

At the moment I don't know what to do. The more time I spend away from her the worse I feel, but that means I have to ignore her as well. I know she needs me too, I could go to her and love her, she would accept me. However she would never come to me. It's always me who goes to her and re-establishes the connection. But the moment we spend 1 day away from each other, it becomes strange again and we feel disconnected. I tried to talk to her, saying that she could come to me anytime, but she doesn't. I am tired to go to her, I feel as if she uses me.

Well this is just a story, it's irrelevant, but it feels so real. My mind keeps blaming her for becoming so cold and distant after saying she wants to stay next to me. She changed much since we met. She used to call me, text me a lot. Now she stopped and she meets other people, while I remain home alone haha. Never tells me where she goes. Basically we stopped communicating because I wanted to see if she would come to me if I don't go to her. But the strange thing is that if I go to her and give her attention, all comes back to 'normal' for 1-2 days:)).

I am dealing with this feeling of being lonely and dumped for over 7 months now. I completed 2 PPs meanwhile and now I am going into my third. I had long breaks in between, but it feels as if I am stuck and make no progress except that I feel worse (that's good I know). Now I write this here hoping for your support (I am aware of this too). I am still looking for confirmation.

You seem to have integrated your unconscious definition of love much faster Brian:))

Probably it's hard for you to follow my stream of thoughts atm, as I go through confusion and I feel afraid, angry and sad.....so I am going to stop here for now.



Where are you guys from? I'm originally from Romania, but at the moment I live in Edinburgh, UK.
Click to expand...
Your ego is doing all your talking….let go of your ego and you will see the light.
 
Thanks for feedback! I know the ego is doing the talking. That's why I am here...because I DONT know how to let go of it. I think that your ego is talking too btw:)). I know I have a strong mind. I observe my thoughts as much as I can...They are angry and blaming, I observe them for more than 7 months now...All I get so far is confusion (fog) and many thoughts.
 
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Brian, I'm so busy I haven't finished reading the book yet.
I try to balance my time with heavy thinking and light thinking
and believe I feel better when I do the light thinking.
 
Bogdan said:
Thanks for feedback! I know the ego is doing the talking. That's why I am here...because I DONT know how to let go of it. I think that your ego is talking too btw:)). I know I have a strong mind. I observe my thoughts as much as I can...They are angry and blaming, I observe them for more than 7 months now...All I get so far is confusion (fog) and many thoughts.
Click to expand...

Read the book: a new earth awakening to your lives purpose by Eckhart Tolle he explains the ego
 
I read it twice and another two books from him...It's worth mentioning I had a hard childhood and I've been hospitalised and operated without anaesthetics when I was about 3 years old (my parents were not around). There's probably a very strong resistance inside of me, so I suspect I need more time to integrate it. I don't need more literature to understand the ego and that feeling is healing. The reason I am here is because I am not sure if I am feeling the right way. I realised that if I stop breathing and focus on the feeling I get deeper into it and it moves more freely. Sometimes I feel this tingling all around my body as if millions of ants are crawling my skin. But then I have to stop breathing (and I always think I shouldn't do that) or simply ignore breathing and just focus on feeling. And even like this I still have the feeling of being stuck.


I have many voices inside but I am never sure which one is authentic. I am still unsure what integration means after 2 PPs. I'm aware I have a strong ego(s). I observe myself doing and saying things I don't want to do or say. I realise they are not who I am. This should be enough.

I will keep on observing and not judging as much as I can. I will never give up on this. However, lately I have strong doubts about this actually working for me as I deal with the same feeling since I started. It moves inside of me, in my neck, head, stomach, legs. One time I remember I had such a strong pain in my toes that it really felt as if someone is cutting them out off my feet. I stayed with that pain for half an hour or more. I was laughing at myself for doing that. Who would want to feel that when you could stop that pain simply by just moving the toes. Of course I moved them after half an hour and the pain was gone. Staying longer than that creates too much resistance, because I always wonder whether that pain is caused by my position on the floor or is a pain from the past. I had this experience 3 times I think. I always had to move my body after a while as it became numb after sitting still for so long. And I really didn't want to stop the breathing while the pain was still active. I did injured my toe at some point though, when I fell off the motorcycle.

Also, sometimes it's almost impossible to stay still, because this energetic feeling is literally moving my body (head especially). And then there is this saliva problem. I produce a lot of saliva and I have to either swallow or spit it out, or do nothing, but that's distracting. So I always find myself asking whether I should oppose this movement created by the energetic feeling or move according to it. I didn't receive an answer yet. I am tempted to retry holotropic breathing as there is no rule in terms of body movement in that technique. The way the holotropic breathwork practitioners put it is as follows: Express your feelings in any way you feel like expressing them. In my first holotropic experience I screamed and moved my arms in the air because that was what the feeling was suggesting me to do.
 
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Bogdan said:
I read it twice and another two books from him...It's worth mentioning I had a hard childhood and I've been hospitalised and operated without anaesthetics when I was about 3 years old (my parents were not around). There's probably a very strong resistance inside of me, so I suspect I need more time to integrate it. I don't need more literature to understand the ego and that feeling is healing. The reason I am here is because I am not sure if I am feeling the right way. I realised that if I stop breathing and focus on the feeling I get deeper into it and it moves more freely. Sometimes I feel this tingling all around my body as if millions of ants are crawling my skin. But then I have to stop breathing (and I always think I shouldn't do that) or simply ignore breathing and just focus on feeling. And even like this I still have the feeling of being stuck.


I have many voices inside but I am never sure which one is authentic. I am still unsure what integration means after 2 PPs. I'm aware I have a strong ego(s). I observe myself doing and saying things I don't want to do or say. I realise they are not who I am. This should be enough.

I will keep on observing and not judging as much as I can. I will never give up on this. However, lately I have strong doubts about this actually working for me as I deal with the same feeling since I started. It moves inside of me, in my neck, head, stomach, legs. One time I remember I had such a strong pain in my toes that it really felt as if someone is cutting them out off my feet. I stayed with that pain for half an hour or more. I was laughing at myself for doing that. Who would want to feel that when you could stop that pain simply by just moving the toes. Of course I moved them after half an hour and the pain was gone. Staying longer than that creates too much resistance, because I always wonder whether that pain is caused by my position on the floor or is a pain from the past. I had this experience 3 times I think. I always had to move my body after a while as it became numb after sitting still for so long. And I really didn't want to stop the breathing while the pain was still active. I did injured my toe at some point though, when I fell off the motorcycle.

Also, sometimes it's almost impossible to stay still, because this energetic feeling is literally moving my body (head especially). And then there is this saliva problem. I produce a lot of saliva and I have to either swallow or spit it out, or do nothing, but that's distracting. So I always find myself asking whether I should oppose this movement created by the energetic feeling or move according to it. I didn't receive an answer yet. I am tempted to retry holotropic breathing as there is no rule in terms of body movement in that technique. The way the holotropic breathwork practitioners put it is as follows: Express your feelings in any way you feel like expressing them. In my first holotropic experience I screamed and moved my arms in the air because that was what the feeling was suggesting me to do.
Click to expand...
 
Well my mind has always been busy. Sorry but I have to write this:)). I know stories are irrelevant in PP, but I am not really here to ask for your help. More to share my experience. I know you can't really help me. It's just a temporary instinct to share. I will stop at some point.

So... to answer your 'random' question (do you actually read what I write?:))...

I am definitely more present as my 'present' muscle got trained, even though I am still not sure what it means to be present. There are so many things to focus in the present. A person's eyes, voice, gestures, the way I feel, where I am. Can't be aware of all at the same time. That would be ideal. Therefore, I oftentimes find myself unaware of people around me or what they say because I focus on the way I feel. So it's like I am not present for them. I am in the present of how I feel (usually strong feelings) but not enough present to acknowledge other things.

Also I tried not to expect anything from PP and I believe I didn't have much expectations until now. I have to draw a line at some point and I chose to do it now because I have too many doubts about this process and what it means to just be in a postmodern society.

Now I am definitely less reactive and most of the times I don't say anything when I am angry at someone, I just observe the feeling, even though that means I ignore that person.

But I can't say I 'see' the world differently. The only thing that changed is my mind set. So I get a 'high' that I know more, but that happened before, when I studied NLP. After all it's just an implanted mind set. But I change my mind all the time as I never know what I actually want from life except to feel free. Sometimes I feel I am brainwashed, because paying attention to the present moment so far doesn't change much.

All these are good for me as I make movies and therefore I need stories in my life to write scripts. It's a bit contradictory haha. Also I realise that by knowing the truths said my M. Brown I tend to judge people more often. For example, when I look at a smoker, I automatically avoid him/her as my mind can't see that person as authentic. I used to smoke as well. I quit before my second PP. I had a relapse in September but now I stopped again and feel less to no temptation to restart. But I quit several times before anyway.
 
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Hi, Bogdan.

I write books and watch movies so my head is also always busy with plots and ideas.
I try to tune everything out an hour or two before bedtime so my mind isn't too busy.
I hope you can continue to not smoke. It's just a crutch. TMS healing techniques
such as deep breathing and mindfulness are better.
 
Great to hear that! I still trust the PP and I am going to stick with it no matter what for at least a year from now on. I'm sure I can draw a line then and re-evaluate life. If nothing happens then it's maybe a delusion or not for me. It sounds conditional, but I expect a year to change things. I have been following PP's instructions quite well I'd say for 7 months now.
 
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