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Your thoughts on deep emotional work and its' importance to recovery.

I have read a lot about the manifestation law of assumption in that anything you believe to be true will eventually harden into fact and it leans itself nicely into TMS.

What do I want? To be be pain and symptom free again, so what I would tell myself everyday is that I am fine with no pain and symptom free whenever that negative thought or feeling would arise.

Negative thoughts about anything will trigger your fight or flight due to worry and importance you put them in. I would acknowledge it but start to focus on the positive things!
 
I'd like to hear more view points too, @JanAtheCPA.

So the reason I brought this up is there is some messaging inconsistency on the importance of emotional work. I'd say most, like Dr. Schubiner and others, feel it's an essential part of recovery. But notably, Alan Gordon doesn't really make emotional work part of his program.

I honestly don't want to start a debate about who's right and who's not. Both have contributed greatly to the TMS world and we need different approaches. I agree with the 'smorgasbord approach' of taking what works for you.

My unscientific view is that emotional work & emotional discovery are very important. Yes, learning that 'feeling our feelings' is safe is a very big part of that. But I think it goes beyond that. When combined with the educational aspects of TMS work, exploring our emotional world can open up gateways that make real changes in our brain. I had a big breakthrough with my very stubborn CFS after doing JournalSpeak.

That doesn't mean deep emotional work is right for everyone and there's no denying that many people have recovered without it. As mentioned, it's also important to have the right mindset when doing it. Things like self-compassion and internalizing messages like 'I'm not broken' and 'there's nothing to fix' need to be at the forefront of our minds.

Here are a few studies that show a clear connection between emotions and pain.

Pain and Emotion: A Biopsychosocial Review of Recent Research
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3152687/#:~:text=Psychological%20research%20demonstrates%20that%20greater,empathy%2C%20attachment%2C%20and%20rejection (Pain and Emotion: A Biopsychosocial Review of Recent Research - PMC).

What Is the Relationship between Pain and Emotion? Bridging Constructs and Communities
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7578761/#R5 (What Is the Relationship between Pain and Emotion? Bridging Constructs and Communities - PMC)

Daily Fluctuations In Feelings Of State Shame Are Associated With Greater Daily Pain Severity And Interference
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1526590023003012 (Daily Fluctuations In Feelings Of State Shame Are Associated With Greater Daily Pain Severity And Interference - ScienceDirect)

So yeah. There's something there.
 
Cap'n Spanky said:
There's something there.
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I agree with you, Cap’n. Thanks for this discussion. My view is that 100 years from now, how to heal from TMS will be so much more clear. We are the front runners! But the ultimate truth is however someone overcomes TMS— it’s a win for them. Some people have a lot of baggage; some people have less. Whatever works, works. You wish you could advise people so they wouldn’t have to waste time figuring out what works for them— but I guess that’s part of them owning their journey. I have been pretty impressed with the notion that many people get recurring TMS. And after it recurs, most people do want to look into their emotions— even if they resisted it at first (like others have said).
 
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Diana-M said:
I agree with you, Cap’n. Thanks for this discussion. My view is that 100 years from now, how to heal from TMS will be so much more clear. We are the front runners! But the ultimate truth is however someone overcomes TMS— it’s a win for them. Some people have a lot of baggage; some people have less. Whatever works, works. You wish you could advise people so they don’t have to waste time figuring out what works for them— but I guess that’s part of them owning their journey. I have been pretty impressed with the notion that many people get recurring TMS. And after it recurs, most people do want to look into their emotions— even if they resisted it at first (like others have said).
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Well said!
 
I'm not sure what "deep emotional work" means. How deep is deep? I can just relay my personal experience. In my TMS recovery process, I first had a "book cure." So just by recognizing that I had TMS, I was able to get rid of 20 years of fibromyalgia. But I relapsed a few weeks later when I stopped taking the tramadol I had become addicted to. I had to go through a painful withdrawal that my brain did not like at all. So the TMS returned, but I don't know what role physical withdrawal played. At that point I went through Schubiner's workbook Unlearn Your Pain, and did all the writing exercises, which go pretty deep. That got me to about an 80% TMS recovery level. I just kept reading about TMS and I did the SEP. I eventually got to a 100% TMS recovery. About 18 months all together.

But I didn't see a therapist or do deep work on my C-PTSD. I still had the effects of trauma, but it didn't cause TMS. A few years ago I started working on that using self-help techniques. It has improved the quality of my life and my relationships, but my TMS recovery was done without this.

So I guess my answer is: I don't know. (shrug emoji) I learned a lot about myself in the process.
 
Good point Ellen. What is “deep emotional work”? When I think of it I think it’s digging deep at your trauma, childhood, etc. I’ve done this. It hurt but I’m not sure this was what the helped me recover from various symptoms. I believe changing my habits and influencing my mindset in a positive way really helped. I still do emotional work but it’s not “deep”.
 
@Ellen
Thanks for your story! ( I’m not sure I ever really heard it all laid out, with timing and everything.) I have followed your advice for the last year and I always like to know people’s stories. It helps me. At any rate, I would say, Schubiner and the SEP totally qualify as doing deep emotional work.
 
Diana-M said:
@Ellen
Thanks for your story! ( I’m not sure I ever really heard it all laid out, with timing and everything.) I have followed your advice for the last year and I always like to know people stories. It helps me. At any rate, I would say, Schubiner and the SEP totally qualify as doing deep emotional work.
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Yes agree. Schubiner definitely goes deep. I’ve tried his ISTDP.
 
I understand Ellen. On the other hand, I've done so much psychotherapy...and I had a few therapists, different techniques etc. I moved a lot so that's why. I also had C - PTSD. I got sick of the therapy at a certain point. And started to read self-help books. And then I got sick of reading all these books. Meditation and letting go of all the reading, techniques, thinking about it, journaling about it...helped me the most. Basically, I relaxed and felt better.

I do my best to stay away from negative things, people, stories etc. I keep close to cheerful individuals, happy and laid-back people and I'm doing much better now. It's done on purpose, I mean I'm careful and pay attention to my surroundings, outside and also inside (thinking patterns). Is it positive? Then, it's OK. Is it negative? Then, I'm out of there.

This is an interesting thread.
 
Sita said:
I do my best to stay away from negative things, people, stories etc. I keep close to cheerful individuals, happy and laid-back people and I'm doing much better now. It's done on purpose, I mean I'm careful and pay attention to my surroundings, outside and also inside (thinking patterns). Is it positive? Then, it's OK. Is it negative? Then, I'm out of there.
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Yes to all of this!
 
Cap'n Spanky said:
I'd like to hear more view points too, @JanAtheCPA.But notably, Alan Gordon doesn't really make emotional work part of his program.
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In his and Alon Ziv's podcast they showed some Gordon's sessions where emotional work was involved. Something like talking to the inner child as I remember. So I imagine it's not in the program, but was in his sessions.

I think what makes it so hard to determine how important the emotional work is, is that the pain itself becomes traumatic and gets in the way of the work.
 
Ellen said:
I'm not sure what "deep emotional work" means. How deep is deep? ....
..... At that point I went through Schubiner's workbook Unlearn Your Pain, and did all the writing exercises, which go pretty deep.
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Good question, @Ellen. It is a rather ambiguous term. I made a feeble attempt at describing it in my original post: "For example, expressive writing (like JournalSpeak), Emotional Awareness Expression Therapy, and other kinds of therapy would fall in this category. Even sitting quietly and experiencing our emotions at a deep level would count."

SEP and the exercises in Dr. Schubiner's book would certainly qualify. I think @HealingMe had a good description.
 
Sita said:
I understand Ellen. On the other hand, I've done so much psychotherapy...and I had a few therapists, different techniques etc. I moved a lot so that's why. I also had C - PTSD. I got sick of the therapy at a certain point. And started to read self-help books. And then I got sick of reading all these books. Meditation and letting go of all the reading, techniques, thinking about it, journaling about it...helped me the most. Basically, I relaxed and felt better.
Click to expand...
My image of someone new coming to the TMS world is a person whose had little or no therapy and has spent little time exploring their emotions or trauma. But as you and others point out, that's not necessarily true. I can totally understand why you got burned on the therapy (and self help). Not that it's equivalent, but I've gotten overwhelmed by intense journaling and similar exercises. There's been a few times where it's put me in a dark place and I needed a break.

There's a time for deep emotional exploration and there's a time to move on and live our lives. I've also found that mindfulness meditation is a great way to stay in-touch with my emotions and stay in balance.

Sita said:
I do my best to stay away from negative things, people, stories etc. I keep close to cheerful individuals, happy and laid-back people and I'm doing much better now. It's done on purpose, I mean I'm careful and pay attention to my surroundings, outside and also inside (thinking patterns). Is it positive? Then, it's OK. Is it negative? Then, I'm out of there.
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That's very wise! I know I should be that way, but I'm bad about getting sucked into the political news and such. I get my dopamine/adrenaline outrage fix. LOL!
 
This is such a great discussion--thanks!

Cap'n Spanky said:
Yeah. There seems to be a misconception that there's some magical hidden trauma or piece of emotional baggage, that once uncovered, will be the key to recovery.
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Picking up on this one part: I mostly agree--just like there is a misconception (particularly for folks identifying with TMS for the first time) that there is one exact right way to make progress, or one right next step--if they could just identify that they'd be good (so then the mental machinery churns in motion...).
Part of that connects back to perfectionist tendencies.

BUT, for me, I think there are some 'magical' hidden patterns of trauma and emotional baggage that have been really important to making progress. I've got patterns from childhood that are hard to pin down, but when I have (both by myself and thru a therapist), there has been such huge revelations. That's not to say there is some magic cure and the symptoms immediately disappear (sometime there weren't even symptoms at the time).
It's just that my current responses to life and struggles make a lot of sense when I get in touch with these patterns.
And, then journaling becomes clearer/easier; my reactions and how I treat myself become less bogged down and prone to negativity etc...
 
Bonnard said:
This is such a great discussion--thanks!
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:)

Bonnard said:
Picking up on this one part: I mostly agree--just like there is a misconception (particularly for folks identifying with TMS for the first time) that there is one exact right way to make progress, or one right next step--if they could just identify that they'd be good (so then the mental machinery churns in motion...).
Part of that connects back to perfectionist tendencies.

BUT, for me, I think there are some 'magical' hidden patterns of trauma and emotional baggage that have been really important to making progress. I've got patterns from childhood that are hard to pin down, but when I have (both by myself and thru a therapist), there has been such huge revelations. That's not to say there is some magic cure and the symptoms immediately disappear (sometime there weren't even symptoms at the time).
It's just that my current responses to life and struggles make a lot of sense when I get in touch with these patterns.
And, then journaling becomes clearer/easier; my reactions and how I treat myself become less bogged down and prone to negativity etc...
Click to expand...
I completely agree! It's totally possible that once we process a particular traumatic event or piece of emotional baggage it opens a door to real change. That change may very well lead to recovery from our pain/symptoms. I didn't mean to make a blanket statement and that there are no exceptions (although, it probably sounded that way). It was more of a general misconception I've seen.

I thought this quote from Steven Ozanich was appropriate:
.... people are asking me is if they need to un-Earth the "exact thing" that is causing their TMS symptoms. Probably not.

People seem to feel they are even more deeply flawed if they journal and reflect and can't find out if they were beaten or abused. The inability to discover a severe trauma makes them worry more and angers them even further, on occasion making their TMS worse. They're searching for a holy grail in futility.

If you are digging up some pain in your past that's fine, do it, but beware of psycho-archeology. Don't keep digging for gold in an empty tomb. I've seen therapists keep people crying for months digging up their past, picking at the same things repeatedly. There's a time to dig and a time to put the shovel down and bask in the sunlight, thankful there is work to do, and problems--that really aren't that bad.
https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/seeking-the-grail.529/#post-4098 (Steven Ozanich - Seeking the Grail)
 
Cap'n Spanky said:
:)


I completely agree! It's totally possible that once we process a particular traumatic event or piece of emotional baggage it opens a door to real change. That change may very well lead to recovery from our pain/symptoms. I didn't mean to make a blanket statement and that there are no exceptions (although, it probably sounded that way). It was more of a general misconception I've seen.

I thought this quote from Steven Ozanich was appropriate:
.... people are asking me is if they need to un-Earth the "exact thing" that is causing their TMS symptoms. Probably not.

People seem to feel they are even more deeply flawed if they journal and reflect and can't find out if they were beaten or abused. The inability to discover a severe trauma makes them worry more and angers them even further, on occasion making their TMS worse. They're searching for a holy grail in futility.

If you are digging up some pain in your past that's fine, do it, but beware of psycho-archeology. Don't keep digging for gold in an empty tomb. I've seen therapists keep people crying for months digging up their past, picking at the same things repeatedly. There's a time to dig and a time to put the shovel down and bask in the sunlight, thankful there is work to do, and problems--that really aren't that bad.
https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/seeking-the-grail.529/#post-4098 (Steven Ozanich - Seeking the Grail)
Click to expand...

This thread from Steve is a gem. Definitely one of my bookmarks.
 
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