What else is there - Seriously

[RogueWave]

RogueWave - thank you very much for such a clarifying response. I personally believe repressed emotions are an issue for me, given my very traumatic childhood.

Having said that, a huge, enormous challenge for me is my fear of the symptoms. And my personal experience is that when my fear increases, my pain is worse which feeds the vicious pain-fear cycle.

When my symptoms are high, especially if they get worse, I find it damn near impossible to not fear the symptoms. Any suggestions on how to overcome this challenge?

It’s really great that you have identified how important losing the fear of your symptoms is!

And if you feel that therapy may be necessary by all means pursue it. But I tend to look at it like this: A traumatic childhood mainly primes the nervous system to be in a constant fight or flight state. In other words, your body has ‘practiced’ it for a long time, so it’s very easy for it to be in it.

You can do a deep dive into all the actual instances of how this occurred, but the primary thing is to understand that that is what happened. You have a very clear reason for how your TMS originated, and this helps your mind to accept it as the diagnosis.

As far as not fearing the symptoms, just keep in mind they’re all fixable! I think I mentioned this in a previous post, but I had a patient with a severe history of panic attacks. She ended up curing herself of them one day by looking back, and realizing none of them had ever actually harmed her. She did no special therapy, took no meds, or anything extreme. She simply had a sudden realization that they were never really harmful, even though they felt horrible, and she constantly feared them coming.

When she realized no harm at ever come from them, she finally had had enough. And she said ‘I just stopped caring whether they came or not!’ And she never had another one. Fear is the fuel, and the fuel had finally run out

So read success stories of other people to give you confidence, but just keep in mind while symptomscan be extremely uncomfortable, they will not harm you. Dr. Abraham Lowe would always tell his patients ‘your symptoms are distressing, but they’re not dangerous.’ This differentiation is extremely important, because the more the subconscious believes the threat to be severe, the more stress chemicals it is going to release. And the less intense it perceives the threat, the less stress chemicals it’s going to release, which will allow the symptoms to fade away.

Also, anyone reading my posts please keep in mind that I dictate most of them, so I don’t always have time to proofread them. So I apologize for any grammatical or spelling errors!

 

[warren23]

RogueWave - more super helpful feedback, thank you! Today was an example of my own divided mind at work - absolutely bizarre, but honestly I take hope from it. I was in serious, brutal pain and deeply fear-stricken much of the day, honestly to the point where I think a mental health professional might say I was having a clinical disassociation from reality. I was barely functional this afternoon, and even more overwhelmed by fear. Finally, my fear got so great, that was the bigger problem for me than the pain. The fear was so great I could barely breath - short, shallow breaths and I was anything but living in the present. It was a siege of fear - my only goal was to get to the next moment alive.

Then, I drove home and felt a little better when I got here. That was followed with a conversation with my wife about an impromptu trip over the 4th to the Colorado Mountains. I would NEVER have previously considered this type of trip, being too rigid and unwilling to get outside my box, especially with the terrible pain I had had. Never mind that we live in Denver!

Then, I laid down and started very carefully reading page after page of this thread, including multiple posts by both you and Hillbilly. As I read, my fear started dropping, my symptoms lessened materially from maybe an 8 to 4-5. I headed for the gym, and even though I still had some pain, I was able to complete the work-out without a lot of fear.

More and more, for me anyway, I see this is largely a game of overcoming my FEAR of the symptoms and life, for that matter!!!!!

 

[warren23]

One thing I noticed from my original significant healing from TMS, and which repeatedly holds true through all the minor hiccups that have followed, is that certain feelings arise when TMS is truly accepted. These feelings include:

extreme confidence
invincibility
awe at yourself
feeling like you are on cloud 9
extreme resilience - even if my whole family died, I'd be ok
profoundly believing in TMS all over again, in an epiphanic state almost on the level of a religious experience

These feelings and TMS symptoms never occur simultaneously. It's impossible because they seem to be opposites, I guess. They are all the opposite of fear.

If you are suffering, when is the last time you felt any of the above feelings? I'm guessing not for a loooong time. Maybe they even feel foreign. They can be difficult to manufacture, though, I admit. But it seems this is how we ought to live.

Great post, and I felt this way when I resolved other TMS symptoms.

 

[RogueWave]

Excellent progress! I always tell patients ‘once you finish this process you’re going to be able to live your life differently.’ All the work to overcome TMS is absolutely applicable to life in general!

Confidence and fear, and the chemicals in the body that cause them, cannot co-exist. One will win. And the one you feed with attention is the one that will p

 

[warren23]

this site is barely running.

Excellent progress! I always tell patients ‘once you finish this process you’re going to be able to live your life differently.’ All the work to overcome TMS is absolutely applicable to life in general!

Confidence and fear, and the chemicals in the body that cause them, cannot co-exist. One will win. And the one you feed with attention is the one that will p

Rogue - thank you - so true that confidence and fear cannot coexist. I have less fear now and a little more confidence, but my fear is not gone.

A couple more questions:

1) Because of my huge change in mindset (thanks largely to you and Hillbilly, at this point), I am going to going to live my life as normally as possible. This is going to be a big change for me, and I am a little intimidated after 2+ years, but I have been convinced I cannot put my life on the shelf any longer waiting for the symptoms to lessen. To do so only adds to my output of stress chemicals and pain. This means no more avoiding trips and social engagements as a start. In your experience, should I go "The Full Monty" , or be selective so as to not overdo it in a way that would be counterproductive?

2) How do I approach exercise? Despite the intense pain at times, I have continued to life weights, takes a palates class every Friday, ride a stationary bike and occasionally go for hikes. I assume I should continue? Because my pain is in my left leg, calf and foot, anything that requires me to vigorously move my left leg hurts.

 

[Ellen]

profoundly believing in TMS all over again, in an epiphanic state almost on the level of a religious experience

Yes! I've described TMS recovery as the closest I've come to a religious experience

 

[Booble]

Bump on RogueWave’s absolutely brilliant repost 5 years ago from Hillbilly. This is arguably the best explanation I have ever seen as to why I have had TMS Symptoms most of my life, and how to get rid of them.

THIS IS F-ING BRILLIANT.
This is really the crux of it, isn't it? The real diagnosis of "broken will and cowardice."
The dwelling on your sickness or pain rather than living.
"What you are likely doing wrong is avoiding life. Specifically, you are avoiding discomfort." So true.
Normal discomfort that everyone feels.
But for us (ok, for me not you) the discomfort of not being perfect.
The Sarno stuff can help us see where this fear comes from and lets us release the anger from being forced into being perfect and that can help set us free. But ultimately, it's up to us to decide that WE ARE FINE and normal and human and can go live life. Because being imperfect is perfect(ly) human.

Thanks for reposting all of this. It's surely a great reminder.

 

[TrustIt]

It’s really great that you have identified how important losing the fear of your symptoms is!
As far as not fearing the symptoms, just keep in mind they’re all fixable! I think I mentioned this in a previous post, but I had a patient with a severe history of panic attacks. She ended up curing herself of them one day by looking back, and realizing none of them had ever actually harmed her. She did no special therapy, took no meds, or anything extreme. She simply had a sudden realization that they were never really harmful, even though they felt horrible, and she constantly feared them coming.

When she realized no harm at ever come from them, she finally had had enough. And she said ‘I just stopped caring whether they came or not!’ And she never had another one. Fear is the fuel, and the fuel had finally run out

This also happened for me! Panic attacks sent me to the ER and I never go to doctors! They are awful. Then I saw an animation online explaining what happens during a panic attack and the minute I realized they are not harmful, I never had another one. Fear is such a liar! It's at the bottom of EVERYTHING!

 

[Booble]

this site is barely running.


Rogue - thank you - so true that confidence and fear cannot coexist. I have less fear now and a little more confidence, but my fear is not gone.

A couple more questions:

1) Because of my huge change in mindset (thanks largely to you and Hillbilly, at this point), I am going to going to live my life as normally as possible. This is going to be a big change for me, and I am a little intimidated after 2+ years, but I have been convinced I cannot put my life on the shelf any longer waiting for the symptoms to lessen. To do so only adds to my output of stress chemicals and pain. This means no more avoiding trips and social engagements as a start. In your experience, should I go "The Full Monty" , or be selective so as to not overdo it in a way that would be counterproductive?

2) How do I approach exercise? Despite the intense pain at times, I have continued to life weights, takes a palates class every Friday, ride a stationary bike and occasionally go for hikes. I assume I should continue? Because my pain is in my left leg, calf and foot, anything that requires me to vigorously move my left leg hurts.

Jumping in (sorry!).
I used to force myself to accept every invitation and make sure that I go. I'd force through the discomfort that would generally start an hour or two before the interaction and the first 5 or 10 or 15 minutes of the event. Often I would use little tricks like I would eat a little something before going out to dinner (because I have a fear of getting dizzy and fainting), I would bring water with me well before people used to carry around water bottles. When it was really hot out I'd bring a wet paper towel and secretly hold it in my hands so I could cool my face and neck if needed. I kept an Advil with me because of my fear of having a (women's) pain attack due to an unfortunate event that had happened while out at a lodge after hiking in NH one time. Sometimes just having my props would be enough and I didn't need them or have to think about them. They were backups that made me feel safe so I could just live like a normal person. Like I think you experienced before, thinking about going to the event is waaaay more uncomfortable then when you are actually at the event. By then we are usually fine!
Ideally we should not need/use these tricks but they helped me through to get past any potential actual physical issues that might crop up.

 

[Mani]

@eskimo never got better

I'm scared I won't be able to do it

 

[cafe_bustelo]

@eskimo never got better

I'm scared I won't be able to do it

You don't actually know that. Instead of fixating on the people who have stopped posting (which actually doesn't mean anything about whether or not they recovered), why not spend your time with the overwhelming number of success stories that you can find nowadays? A big part of my recovery in the past couple months has just been listening and learning to those, often while doing something else enjoyable so I'm not just fixating on getting better.

 

[warren23]

@eskimo never got better

I'm scared I won't be able to do it

I have thought the same thing, especially as my symptoms got even worse. However, with the help of Rogue Wave and and Hillbilly, I now realize it's time to shift gears and focus far less on the symptoms, though that is extraordinarily difficult to do. Just finished the audio version of Claire Weekes "Hope and Help for Your Nerves". I now realize I really have what she calls "nervous illness", which has led to the symptoms. Not a body problem .

 

[warren23]

Jumping in (sorry!).
I used to force myself to accept every invitation and make sure that I go. I'd force through the discomfort that would generally start an hour or two before the interaction and the first 5 or 10 or 15 minutes of the event. Often I would use little tricks like I would eat a little something before going out to dinner (because I have a fear of getting dizzy and fainting), I would bring water with me well before people used to carry around water bottles. When it was really hot out I'd bring a wet paper towel and secretly hold it in my hands so I could cool my face and neck if needed. I kept an Advil with me because of my fear of having a (women's) pain attack due to an unfortunate event that had happened while out at a lodge after hiking in NH one time. Sometimes just having my props would be enough and I didn't need them or have to think about them. They were backups that made me feel safe so I could just live like a normal person. Like I think you experienced before, thinking about going to the event is waaaay more uncomfortable then when you are actually at the event. By then we are usually fine!
Ideally we should not need/use these tricks but they helped me through to get past any potential actual physical issues that might crop up.

Yes, Booble, appreciate your post. I went to an event tonight and stood for 2 1/2 hours. Hurt the whole time, though a couple of beers sure helped me. I felt very fearful before I went and not well afterwards. I just learned about Claire Weekes’ concept of “nervous illness”, and it dominated much of the evening for me.

 

[cafe_bustelo]

Yes, Booble, appreciate your post. I went to an event tonight and stood for 2 1/2 hours. Hurt the whole time, though a couple of beers sure helped me. I felt very fearful before I went and not well afterwards. I just learned about Claire Weekes’ concept of “nervous illness”, and it dominated much of the evening for me.

It may take another repetition, it may take 10 or 15 (but probably not that much), but soon with continued exposure you'll start to not experience the symptoms so strongly with these conditioned triggers. Social events were a huge trigger for me and it's taken me a little while, but I'm finally getting over that and not having an increase in symptoms anymore. Remember that you're totally fine and you're happy to be there! (And if you're not happy to be there, know that symptoms will pass and there's no physical danger to you.)

 

[warren23]

It may take another repetition, it may take 10 or 15 (but probably not that much), but soon with continued exposure you'll start to not experience the symptoms so strongly with these conditioned triggers. Social events were a huge trigger for me and it's taken me a little while, but I'm finally getting over that and not having an increase in symptoms anymore. Remember that you're totally fine and you're happy to be there! (And if you're not happy to be there, know that symptoms will pass and there's no physical danger to you.)

Cafe - we'll see - over the last 2+ years, I have probably been to over 100 events, and my pain was often worse at the event like you. I am hoping this time around will be different because I now know this is part of the recovery process, rather than just powering thru in pain.

 

[cafe_bustelo]

Cafe - we'll see - over the last 2+ years, I have probably been to over 100 events, and my pain was often worse at the event like you. I am hoping this time around will be different because I now know this is part of the recovery process, rather than just powering thru in pain.

It will change! The key is what you said: it’s the TMS knowledge plus a gradual return to life and normal activity.

 

[warren23]

It will change! The key is what you said: it’s the TMS knowledge plus a gradual return to life and normal activity.

Cafe - how did you approach exercise as you were recovering?

 

[cafe_bustelo]

Cafe - how did you approach exercise as you were recovering?

For me it was gradual over a period of weeks/months. But within that period of time there were a few rip off the band aid instances of just committing to going for a run, biking, swimming, playing a game of tennis, where I just said I want to do this and I’m not scared of the symptoms if they come (and they did at first).

I will say I started running regularly for the first time since I was 16 and that helped to show me that nothing was wrong with my body as I had if anything less symptoms most of the time once I started running than I did when I wasn’t moving, which didn’t make sense structurally (I think I did have fairly strong symptoms the first few times I started running, so definitely don’t be thrown off by that). But I kept running regularly since I like how it makes me feel, not really as a TMS thing.

 

[RogueWave]

Well said! @warren23 it’s really an individual journey. During my first go-around with TMS in my 20s (mostly bad chronic Lower back pain and occasional numbness), once I started to really understand TMS I started pushing myself more at the gym, very slowly at first, doing exercises I hadn’t done in a long time like squats and deadlifts.

I would go very light, and I would notice most of the time they wouldn’t aggravate anything, which further proved that I didn’t really have a structural problem, even though I had seen x-rays and knew that my hip on my right side was an inch and a half lower than the hip on my left side.

As my confidence grew, the weights on those lifts started going up, slowly until I eventually lost the fear altogether.

The old adage “the only way out is through” also holds true here. Eventually, you will have to challenge yourself and do things you were scared to do, but just take it at your own pace and don’t try to do it all at once.

I remember reading Dr. Schubiner’s Experience back then two. He was a marathon runner and he had a horrible sciatic pain. When he finally met Dr. Sarno and Dr. Sarno confirmed the TMS diagnosis, he was still in pain, but he decided to just push himself on a run. He ended up getting to about the 8th mile and still had a ton of pain, but he just kept telling himself this is just TMS, it’s not dangerous, and around then the pain disappeared and never came back.

I might have some of the minor details of that story wrong, but you get the idea! He just decided to flat out challenge it, but not everybody Should necessarily approach it that way. It worked for him though.

 

[Lee222]

Tms seems very hit and miss.

Some people seem to do really well and others seem to get nothing out of it, if anything it's a negative for some, including me.

It's almost like there's a lot of arrogance around it and people who it doesn't work for are supposed to keep quiet

The more negative stories the better, they can help people being so naive