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What else is there - Seriously

Hi @Kozas,

1.) You may be trying to shift focus but it sounds like your fear is still very high around symptoms. You need to believe they are brain induced and harmless and temporary. Are there still doubts you are harboring that this is TMS?...because doubt will hold us back in making progress.

2.) Antibiotics are not the cause of your present symptoms and pain. Your brain is looking for a reason but that is not it. When you regret decisions you made that were based on the knowledge you had at the time, that is self abuse and you are bullying yourself, which puts your brain into fight or flight. The antibiotics are totally irrelevant to the TMS you have today. There is nothing to feel guilt about.

3.) The acne is affecting your self image and creating all sorts of distorted, false beliefs about yourself and your self worth. Again you are bullying yourself here and not seeing yourself accurately .

4.). By comparing yourself now to before, you are resisting and fighting the present moment. By going back to the past, it is disempowering you in the present. Stay in this moment, accept yourself in this moment, and have a positive outlook for the future. If things were better in the past, they will be again. Everything in life is temporary. It is us and our thoughts that keep renewing and recreating the negative on a moment to moment basis. Your pain is temporary and so are your thoughts! You have control over your thoughts and if you want to keep renewing the subscription to the magazine, so to speak.

5.). This situation of suffering is not something that "happened" "to" you. It's an ongoing state that your brain and mind has created over time through your own thoughts. You can reverse this programming and these learned habits of the brain and body. They are simply thought habits. Put the symptoms and pain into the construct of thought. They are false alarms stemming from the alarm function in your brain. When you communicate to your brain that you are safe, when you begin finding joy and meaning in your life (focusing on your actual life and not your body), the TMS ceases to have a purpose...the brain loses it's grip on the strategy. It realizes that it no longer needs to alert you, distract you , or "protect" you. We create our own luck and our body is an extension of our mind. When we are highly anxious, it alters our physiology, including our skin. The more you can engage in life on your terms, the faster your brain will get out of fight or flight . The body will calm down on it's own as a natural result.


I’m sure some of you must be thinking omg it’s her again, but here I am. I sometimes get so depressed and anxious ( either/or/both) that I feel sick and it ties in with nasty leg nerve sensations. I don’t know which comes first. It’s all demoralizing. There are times I feel I really have control of this, putting all the great advice you guys have given in this thread to use, and feel a bit happier. Sometimes I feel it’s an over sensitized nervous system and other times my mind goes to some awful disease.
As I’ve mentioned I’ve been tested pretty thoroughly and nothing can be found. My doctor said I’ve been tested for everything. He has suggested that I try Zoloft as he doesn’t know what else to say. I’ve heard both good and bad things about it. I’m not sure why I haven’t given it a shot other than I’ve tried antidepressants before and they did nothing. I know you can’t specifically recommend that I take it, but a general opinion would be welcome.,
 
I’m sure some of you must be thinking omg it’s her again, but here I am. I sometimes get so depressed and anxious ( either/or/both) that I feel sick and it ties in with nasty leg nerve sensations. I don’t know which comes first. It’s all demoralizing. There are times I feel I really have control of this, putting all the great advice you guys have given in this thread to use, and feel a bit happier. Sometimes I feel it’s an over sensitized nervous system and other times my mind goes to some awful disease.
As I’ve mentioned I’ve been tested pretty thoroughly and nothing can be found. My doctor said I’ve been tested for everything. He has suggested that I try Zoloft as he doesn’t know what else to say. I’ve heard both good and bad things about it. I’m not sure why I haven’t given it a shot other than I’ve tried antidepressants before and they did nothing. I know you can’t specifically recommend that I take it, but a general opinion would be welcome.,

Anything that helps reduce anxiety is a good thing and that includes anti depressants (like Zoloft or Prozac for example), meditation, visualization, walks in nature, yoga, taking a bath, watching a funny movie. Your number one job is to chill out, so to speak, so you can do the work. However that looks like for you is totally fine. There's no right or wrong, just teaching the brain you are safe and it can let go of the TMS.
 
I’m sure some of you must be thinking omg it’s her again, but here I am. I sometimes get so depressed and anxious ( either/or/both) that I feel sick and it ties in with nasty leg nerve sensations. I don’t know which comes first. It’s all demoralizing. There are times I feel I really have control of this, putting all the great advice you guys have given in this thread to use, and feel a bit happier. Sometimes I feel it’s an over sensitized nervous system and other times my mind goes to some awful disease.
As I’ve mentioned I’ve been tested pretty thoroughly and nothing can be found. My doctor said I’ve been tested for everything. He has suggested that I try Zoloft as he doesn’t know what else to say. I’ve heard both good and bad things about it. I’m not sure why I haven’t given it a shot other than I’ve tried antidepressants before and they did nothing. I know you can’t specifically recommend that I take it, but a general opinion would be welcome.,

Hi, @tgirl , how are you doing now?

Please be a bit more gentle with yourself! Even the opening line of your post is self-deprecating :). I was looking for Abraham Low's discussions on what he calls 'defeatism,' and a good concise discussion came up on the Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_International (Recovery International - Wikipedia)): ""Temperamental lingo" describes language related to judgments of right and wrong, and the use of defeatist language when discussing symptoms. When discussing symptoms, temperamental lingo includes the use of adjectives such as "intolerable," "uncontrollable," "unbearable," and similar language that places an emphasis on the dangerous and fatalistic implications of feelings, impulses, or thoughts."

As @miffybunny has written, ultimately it is about losing the fear. And it is fascinating how we experience how deeply entrenched it can be once we start working on shifting out of it. I used to say 'I feel like it's part of my DNA!' I know you've been working on this awhile, but please don't lose sight of the bigger picture and any progress you've made. It's so, so easy to forget progress when you've had a bad day, days, week, etc. But bring the focus back to how far you've come vs how far you have to go, and it will lighten the load a bit.

I've heard this idea referred to as 'upstream' vs 'downstream', and I might have discussed it before, but it bears repeating here. And believe it or not, Arnold Schwarzenegger helped open my eyes to it.

In an interview he said 'When I came to this country, I decided I wanted to be the highest paid actor in Hollywood, but I couldn't act, and could barely speak English. The dream seemed impossible." (Insert your own seemingly insurmountable problem, like curing TMS, here :)). He figured it would take X amount of time, and he'd have to take English lessons, have a perfect muscular body, etc. So he said he'd be in the gym for hours, doing grueling workouts, but he'd be smiling all the time. The other guys working out asked "Why are you smiling??' and he said "because every rep gets me one step closer to my goal.' So in his own head, maybe it would take 10,000 reps of an exercise and he'd get there. So instead of thinking 'oh I still have more to do....one, two, three' he'd be thinking '10,000, 9,999, 9,998..." The first way is 'upstream' and requires more energy, and can be exhausting. The second way is 'downstream' and has far more energy behind it.

Yet the workout is the same, only the mindset is different. But it's a huge difference.

"I feel like I don't know what's wrong, and I don't know if it will ever go away.' Defeatist, and 'upstream.'

"I had one full good day today!" 'Downstream', building towards recovery.

"Nothing ever works for this. Everything I try ends up failing." Defeatist. Upstream.

"TMS makes perfect sense, my doctor already told me I'm fine otherwise, and my body can and wants to heal itself.' Downstream.


In the midst of anxiety/depression, this can be difficult to do, but it is possible. When I'd have a bad day (even after a good week!) I'd feel totally defeated/deflated, when in reality I was still making progress. So I learned to look back on some journal entries just to stay confident with how far I'd come.

I hope this helps, and I hope you are doing better.

This is my busiest time of year, but I am checking in from time to time, so I hope to read some updates soon.
 
Hi, @tgirl , how are you doing now?

Please be a bit more gentle with yourself! Even the opening line of your post is self-deprecating :). I was looking for Abraham Low's discussions on what he calls 'defeatism,' and a good concise discussion came up on the Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_International (Recovery International - Wikipedia)): ""Temperamental lingo" describes language related to judgments of right and wrong, and the use of defeatist language when discussing symptoms. When discussing symptoms, temperamental lingo includes the use of adjectives such as "intolerable," "uncontrollable," "unbearable," and similar language that places an emphasis on the dangerous and fatalistic implications of feelings, impulses, or thoughts."

As @miffybunny has written, ultimately it is about losing the fear. And it is fascinating how we experience how deeply entrenched it can be once we start working on shifting out of it. I used to say 'I feel like it's part of my DNA!' I know you've been working on this awhile, but please don't lose sight of the bigger picture and any progress you've made. It's so, so easy to forget progress when you've had a bad day, days, week, etc. But bring the focus back to how far you've come vs how far you have to go, and it will lighten the load a bit.

I've heard this idea referred to as 'upstream' vs 'downstream', and I might have discussed it before, but it bears repeating here. And believe it or not, Arnold Schwarzenegger helped open my eyes to it.

In an interview he said 'When I came to this country, I decided I wanted to be the highest paid actor in Hollywood, but I couldn't act, and could barely speak English. The dream seemed impossible." (Insert your own seemingly insurmountable problem, like curing TMS, here :)). He figured it would take X amount of time, and he'd have to take English lessons, have a perfect muscular body, etc. So he said he'd be in the gym for hours, doing grueling workouts, but he'd be smiling all the time. The other guys working out asked "Why are you smiling??' and he said "because every rep gets me one step closer to my goal.' So in his own head, maybe it would take 10,000 reps of an exercise and he'd get there. So instead of thinking 'oh I still have more to do....one, two, three' he'd be thinking '10,000, 9,999, 9,998..." The first way is 'upstream' and requires more energy, and can be exhausting. The second way is 'downstream' and has far more energy behind it.

Yet the workout is the same, only the mindset is different. But it's a huge difference.

"I feel like I don't know what's wrong, and I don't know if it will ever go away.' Defeatist, and 'upstream.'

"I had one full good day today!" 'Downstream', building towards recovery.

"Nothing ever works for this. Everything I try ends up failing." Defeatist. Upstream.

"TMS makes perfect sense, my doctor already told me I'm fine otherwise, and my body can and wants to heal itself.' Downstream.


In the midst of anxiety/depression, this can be difficult to do, but it is possible. When I'd have a bad day (even after a good week!) I'd feel totally defeated/deflated, when in reality I was still making progress. So I learned to look back on some journal entries just to stay confident with how far I'd come.

I hope this helps, and I hope you are doing better.

This is my busiest time of year, but I am checking in from time to time, so I hope to read some updates soon.


RogueWave, thank you so much for asking how I am doing - so thoughtful.

I’d like to say I’m 100 percent, but that wouldn’t be true, not yet anyway. Recently I spoke with my doctor and he said in his tactful way, that I tend to obsess and that Zoloft might be worth a try. I took it for nine days and began to obsess about symptoms I thought I was getting from the the drug. Lol. He remarked that it didn’t sound like a good fit for me and that he could recommend something else. I’ve put that on hold. Talking to him reconfirmed that he feels I’m fine (reassurance seeking). I asked him what I should do, and his answer was “ You’re healthy, meditate”. Lol.

My mindset is definitely better these days. I used to feel panicky about my symptoms almost all the time. Now I force my mind to think of a few positive things about my situation and try to move on, when possible. Unfortunately, I can let my mind wallow in the ‘what ifs’ if I’m not careful. And probably due to my obsessive nature I tend to revert back to googling (not nasty sites, just benign TMS sites), and once in awhile I read posts that I can’t unsee; then I’m back to worrying and ruminating. I suppose I find nerve type symptoms the scariest; although, I have read a number of wonderful success stories as well. I have them jotted down on paper so that I can refer to them during low points.

I’ve had many bizarre symptoms in the past that went away, and some of them I had dealt with for quite awhile as well. They are all totally gone now. Classic TMS.

As well, I suppose it depends on a person’s take on TMS. I feel in my case, I may have gotten myself into a vicious loop, over sensitized my nervous system and now my body is used to this way of being. But having said this, I have times during the day when I feel totally normal and happy. I think for me TMS isn’t as much about repressed emotions as it is about over sensitization and a learned way of reacting. Yes, I had an extremely anxious upbringing etc., but honestly I think I’ve dealt with my past, and I know what my current stressors are (one being pretty large). I need my body to rewire, so to speak, and I’m working on it - some days are better than others. My body will catch up at one point.

The reason it has taken so long for my attitude adjustment is that this positive, non-panicky way of thinking is pretty new for me (over the last few months), and if a person has reacted a certain way for years, it could take longer to undo the Gordian knot. Instead of getting angry about my situation I feel that there is an end in sight. Maybe in the past I thought I was doomed, and I don’t know how anyone can feel hopeful or get better with that mindset.

One question - is the general consensus that central sensitization can be reversed? (I haven’t been diagnosed with that or anything else, but just wondering).

Presently I’m reading a good book by Eckhart Tolle called Stillness Speaks that is all about mindfulness and being present. Someone might find it useful.

People like you, RogueWave, Miffybunny, Plum, and Hillbilly, along with several other people have been incredibly instrumental in changing my mindset to one of hope. I can’t thank you enough.

RogueWave, I hope you are well!
 
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2. I still blame myself. All this started from me taking antibiotics for acne 10 years ago. Maybe it was coincedental, maybe my stomach and jaw/teeth pain started because of it. I don't know, but I feel like it's because of me.
3. It doesn't help that I still have moderate acne. I'm the onle one I know that still struggle with it, well into my thirties. Nothing I ever tried really helped me. It's like everything in my life. No matter how much I try, nothing ever changes. Sometimes only for worse. What girl could love someone so hidious. I will be forever in pain and alone.

may i also suggest that you change your language? you make a number of negative statements that you probably are not even aware you are making. it just feels true. i get it! but here's the thing...our words create thoughts that go on to create emotions that go on to create chemicals. if negative, it creates adrenaline, epinephrine, cortisol. those stressful chemicals will hold the body in an addictive state for a period of time. it can be counter-intuitive to say things like, "i am well." "i love my body." when, in reality, in that moment, we don't feel that way. we have to change our perception of our bodies and instead of present tense statements like you make in the above, and the words into future tense instead...otherwise, we are perpetuating the status quo of "I AM 'THIS'". once the body becomes addicted to the positive feelings, the feel-good chemicals like endorphins, oxytocin, serotonin, and dopamine,THIS is what allows the body to heal.
 
Hello everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster. I had no intention of ever posting on here, but wanted add my 2 cents if it is helpful for those really suffering or at your wit’s end. I still feel that too sometimes, but I know that is just part of the brain’s tricky voodoo tactics.

Brief background: I am about 80% recovered from full body CRPS after a head injury. For the most part, I’ve used a combo of challenging the pain along with TMS/Hypnotherapy/DNRS program. Twenty months ago, I was in a level 12 full body pain that even two bags of morphine at the ER did not get rid of. Now I am working 25 hours per week, walking 45 minutes a day, and gradually living my life again.

A major thing I see missing in TMS discussions is the importance of graded exposure. In the DNRS brain retraining program they taught me how to stretch my brain outside its comfort zone without pissing it off too much. If you do too much too fast it will reactivate all that fight/flight and for most people that is very hard to be indifferent too.

I’m not writing this to advocate that you all go do DNRS. It’s pretty much the same thing as TMS but with a lot more ritual around it, which can sometimes just fuel obsessiveness. I simply am pointing out that DNRS has a huge focus on graded exposure (they call it “incremental training”) and people have big success with it.

Example: Last summer I could not walk without bigly flaring the full body pain. So I chose to slightly challenge my brain and walk for 15 minutes every day. That was the maximum I could deal with walking, even on days I felt like total kaka. After walking, I always meditated for 15-30 minutes. Because my brain’s default state was fight/flight I knew I had to follow up the triggering activity with calmness to teach my brain that walking was safe. Every two weeks, I added only one minute to my walking and followed it with meditation. After 6 months I was walking 45 minutes with no flareups afterwards and my baseline pain level had dropped considerably in general.

I know some TMS enthusiasts might say I was “babying” the pain. But that’s not how I see it. I was simply respecting where my brain was and choosing to be kind to myself. I gradually stretched my brain’s comfort zone instead of forcing and pushing, which is what my TMS personality had done before.

So when I read in this thread that someone is going from very little movement to all of a sudden jogging or playing the guitar for 15 minutes….or going from not traveling anywhere to all of a sudden running around Asia for 4 months but being in agony. Oh gee golly gosh! I just shake my head with sadness :nailbiting::(

If you do too much too fast it will piss your brain off to high heavens. Some people can ride those huge spikes with indifference and that works great for them. But for others it threatens the brain way too much and then you are back in the vicious cycle of “Seeeeeee this doesn’t work. This is hopeless! I should just cry or die”.

I recently did this to myself again, even though I’m far into recovery. My brain is still very reactive to the original head injury. So I decided I was ready to take the training wheels off completely and do lots of head/neck exercises. I wasn’t doing them to try to fix my neck. I know my neck has healed and there is nothing wrong. I was doing them to challenge the fear. Welp, I did way too much too fast. The nerve pain almost faded away completely for a time, but then it came back with a vengeance on top of nausea, dizziness, panic attacks, heart palps, chest pain, and diarrhea that smelled like dead raccoons:vomit:All classic TMS fight/flight responses.

I then started catastrophizing again and freaking out that the pain will never end, which is honestly what I was doing last night when I couldn’t sleep and read this long discussion. But reading this reminded me of everything I have done that has worked so far and how graded exposure has been KEY to my journey. I know my brain's fear around my head needs to be addressed – I mean look how my brain reacted to some minor movement in that area!

But I am exploring and sitting with how to challenge the fear in a gradual way so my brain does not get so triggered. I have found that starting itty bitty goes much better than resuming all normal activity and trying not to give a shit about huge spikes. For me, that approach is just not realistic. It can be hard with an overachiever type personality to start small, but for my brain that has honestly been the only way.

I know this approach may not work for everyone and I try not to spend much time on this forum. So it is not my intention to get into a long debate here analyzing graded exposure. I simply find this aspect of TMS principles underrated yet it has worked so well for me.

To all you TMS veterans that have been offering wisdom in this discussion I thank you. I was feeling really pathetic and sorry for myself last night and re-reading your words reminded me how far I have come and what has worked so well for me!
 
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Example: Last summer I could not walk without bigly flaring the full body pain. So I chose to slightly challenge my brain and walk for 15 minutes every day. That was the maximum I could deal with walking, even on days I felt like total kaka. After walking, I always meditated for 15-30 minutes. Because my brain’s default state was fight/flight I knew I had to follow up the triggering activity with calmness to teach my brain that walking was safe. Every two weeks, I added only one minute to my walking and followed it with meditation.
What a good idea -- to meditate after graded exposure activity. I have been using graded exposure but have frustratingly found that I can only go so far; there's a point I can reach, but then my brain doesn't allow me to go beyond that point. If I meditate afterwards then I might be able to stretch my brain's acceptance. Nice one, @Lemonade -- thank you! :)

P.S. You've made me realise that when I reached the point beyond which I wasn't able to progress, I tended to think 'structural' rather than 'psychological', i.e. that it was my muscles at fault and not my brain putting up a barrier.

Do you think slow, calm breathing would work to stop the brain getting upset, if one is in a situation not to be able to meditate for at least 15 minutes after adding a bit more activity?
 
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Hello everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster. I had no intention of ever posting on here, but wanted add my 2 cents if it is helpful for those really suffering or at your wit’s end. I still feel that too sometimes, but I know that is just part of the brain’s tricky voodoo tactics.

Brief background: I am about 80% recovered from full body CRPS after a head injury. For the most part, I’ve used a combo of challenging the pain along with TMS/Hypnotherapy/DNRS program. Twenty months ago, I was in a level 12 full body pain that even two bags of morphine at the ER did not get rid of. Now I am working 25 hours per week, walking 45 minutes a day, and gradually living my life again.

A major thing I see missing in TMS discussions is the importance of graded exposure. In the DNRS brain retraining program they taught me how to stretch my brain outside its comfort zone without pissing it off too much. If you do too much too fast it will reactivate all that fight/flight and for most people that is very hard to be indifferent too.

I’m not writing this to advocate that you all go do DNRS. It’s pretty much the same thing as TMS but with a lot more ritual around it, which can sometimes just fuel obsessiveness. I simply am pointing out that DNRS has a huge focus on graded exposure (they call it “incremental training”) and people have big success with it.

Example: Last summer I could not walk without bigly flaring the full body pain. So I chose to slightly challenge my brain and walk for 15 minutes every day. That was the maximum I could deal with walking, even on days I felt like total kaka. After walking, I always meditated for 15-30 minutes. Because my brain’s default state was fight/flight I knew I had to follow up the triggering activity with calmness to teach my brain that walking was safe. Every two weeks, I added only one minute to my walking and followed it with meditation. After 6 months I was walking 45 minutes with no flareups afterwards and my baseline pain level had dropped considerably in general.

I know some TMS enthusiasts might say I was “babying” the pain. But that’s not how I see it. I was simply respecting where my brain was and choosing to be kind to myself. I gradually stretched my brain’s comfort zone instead of forcing and pushing, which is what my TMS personality had done before.

So when I read in this thread that someone is going from very little movement to all of a sudden jogging or playing the guitar for 15 minutes….or going from not traveling anywhere to all of a sudden running around Asia for 4 months but being in agony. Oh gee golly gosh! I just shake my head with sadness :nailbiting::(

If you do too much too fast it will piss your brain off to high heavens. Some people can ride those huge spikes with indifference and that works great for them. But for others it threatens the brain way too much and then you are back in the vicious cycle of “Seeeeeee this doesn’t work. This is hopeless! I should just cry or die”.

I recently did this to myself again, even though I’m far into recovery. My brain is still very reactive to the original head injury. So I decided I was ready to take the training wheels off completely and do lots of head/neck exercises. I wasn’t doing them to try to fix my neck. I know my neck has healed and there is nothing wrong. I was doing them to challenge the fear. Welp, I did way too much too fast. The nerve pain almost faded away completely for a time, but then it came back with a vengeance on top of nausea, dizziness, panic attacks, heart palps, chest pain, and diarrhea that smelled like dead raccoons:vomit:All classic TMS fight/flight responses.

I then started catastrophizing again and freaking out that the pain will never end, which is honestly what I was doing last night when I couldn’t sleep and read this long discussion. But reading this reminded me of everything I have done that has worked so far and how graded exposure has been KEY to my journey. I know my brain's fear around my head needs to be addressed – I mean look how my brain reacted to some minor movement in that area!

But I am exploring and sitting with how to challenge the fear in a gradual way so my brain does not get so triggered. I have found that starting itty bitty goes much better than resuming all normal activity and trying not to give a shit about huge spikes. For me, that approach is just not realistic. It can be hard with an overachiever type personality to start small, but for my brain that has honestly been the only way.

I know this approach may not work for everyone and I try not to spend much time on this forum. So it is not my intention to get into a long debate here analyzing graded exposure. I simply find this aspect of TMS principles underrated yet it has worked so well for me.

To all you TMS veterans that have been offering wisdom in this discussion I thank you. I was feeling really pathetic and sorry for myself last night and re-reading your words reminded me how far I have come and what has worked so well for me!

Hmm I've found graded exposure talked about a lot here. It's just that everyone goes at their own pace and there is no one set pace for it.
 
Symptoms are reinforced by fear and focus. The more a person gets frustrated, "tries", rues, curses , fights, wants to "fix", the symptoms, the more they feed the strategy and the TMS has the person in their grip. When one is in a state of resistance, it activates the danger center in the brain. Getting better is simple but not easy. The faster you want to get rid of symptoms, the longer it will take. The less you care and let them affect you, the more they cease to have a purpose. The more you hate the symptoms, the more they own you. The only way to take your power back is to realize and accept that there's nothing wrong with you to begin with. It's not about an "approach" (no one is selling anything here)...it's about self acceptance and your own personal journey. You are creating these symptoms...they are not happening "to" you. I keep repeating myself over and over and over but hopefully if I say the same thing in a million different ways, the message can get through to anyone reading who is struggling.[

I am 76 and have been on this journey with spondylolisthesis for 2years and vertigo for a year.I have read all your posts and they have been so helpful.Today I realised I only have pain walking and standing for too long so there is one positive I don’t have pain 24/7.Also I have done enough reading books and listening to podcasts.I have enough knowledge it’s time to keep going.
Once again thanks.
 
Hi, @tgirl , how are you doing now?

Please be a bit more gentle with yourself! Even the opening line of your post is self-deprecating :). I was looking for Abraham Low's discussions on what he calls 'defeatism,' and a good concise discussion came up on the Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_International (Recovery International - Wikipedia)): ""Temperamental lingo" describes language related to judgments of right and wrong, and the use of defeatist language when discussing symptoms. When discussing symptoms, temperamental lingo includes the use of adjectives such as "intolerable," "uncontrollable," "unbearable," and similar language that places an emphasis on the dangerous and fatalistic implications of feelings, impulses, or thoughts."

As @miffybunny has written, ultimately it is about losing the fear. And it is fascinating how we experience how deeply entrenched it can be once we start working on shifting out of it. I used to say 'I feel like it's part of my DNA!' I know you've been working on this awhile, but please don't lose sight of the bigger picture and any progress you've made. It's so, so easy to forget progress when you've had a bad day, days, week, etc. But bring the focus back to how far you've come vs how far you have to go, and it will lighten the load a bit.

I've heard this idea referred to as 'upstream' vs 'downstream', and I might have discussed it before, but it bears repeating here. And believe it or not, Arnold Schwarzenegger helped open my eyes to it.

In an interview he said 'When I came to this country, I decided I wanted to be the highest paid actor in Hollywood, but I couldn't act, and could barely speak English. The dream seemed impossible." (Insert your own seemingly insurmountable problem, like curing TMS, here :)). He figured it would take X amount of time, and he'd have to take English lessons, have a perfect muscular body, etc. So he said he'd be in the gym for hours, doing grueling workouts, but he'd be smiling all the time. The other guys working out asked "Why are you smiling??' and he said "because every rep gets me one step closer to my goal.' So in his own head, maybe it would take 10,000 reps of an exercise and he'd get there. So instead of thinking 'oh I still have more to do....one, two, three' he'd be thinking '10,000, 9,999, 9,998..." The first way is 'upstream' and requires more energy, and can be exhausting. The second way is 'downstream' and has far more energy behind it.

Yet the workout is the same, only the mindset is different. But it's a huge difference.

"I feel like I don't know what's wrong, and I don't know if it will ever go away.' Defeatist, and 'upstream.'

"I had one full good day today!" 'Downstream', building towards recovery.

"Nothing ever works for this. Everything I try ends up failing." Defeatist. Upstream.

"TMS makes perfect sense, my doctor already told me I'm fine otherwise, and my body can and wants to heal itself.' Downstream.


In the midst of anxiety/depression, this can be difficult to do, but it is possible. When I'd have a bad day (even after a good week!) I'd feel totally defeated/deflated, when in reality I was still making progress. So I learned to look back on some journal entries just to stay confident with how far I'd come.

I hope this helps, and I hope you are doing better.

This is my busiest time of year, but I am checking in from time to time, so I hope to read some updates soon.
 
Last post about this for now, promise ;) A long-gone poster here by the name of Hillbilly really helped me out when I was at my worst, and I saved everything I could of his. I'm posting a few things he wrote about recovery from TMS, and I didn't want to take credit for his words. But they saved my life, so here are some of his gems:

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"few weeks passed in which I walked through the motions of living. At night, suffering from terrible insomnia, I would ponder the things I'd read that gave me hope. I got out a pad and paper and began to write down the things that I wasn't doing that I knew I needed to. This was an epiphany for me. I wasn't following the simplest advice of all, which was to let the pain come and go or stay or whatever it chose to do, which both Dr. Weekes and Dr. Sarno prescribed. The problem was that I was still allowing my symptoms to control me. I wasn't in control at all in my life. I made room for rest, avoidance, paced myself too much. I decided I needed one thing, and that was courage to push through the pain and doubt and go back to living again. I took a break from all forums, all internet searches, and decided on one goal: I would live fully again, and I would be stronger and more resolute than before. I didn't need a hero. I needed to find the inner strength for MY journey.

I was introduced to a lady who had gone through what I had through a mutual friend. She agreed to take me on as a pet project. She told me to buy a book called “Mental Health Through Will Training” by Dr. Abraham Low. I began to read the book in the two weeks before I met with her the first time. I got the feeling that I was listening to a football coach while reading Dr. Low rise above the complaints and whines of his patients and calmly, assertively tell them they were wrong. They were simply giving in to their stress symptoms. Even though none of them mentioned back pain specifically, I knew what he was saying spoke directly to the way I was behaving, overthinking, avoiding, mentally manifesting tumors and bleeds where there were none. TMS? Schmee Em Ess. Broken will and cowardice was my diagnosis.

When I met with my therapist, she was always so sure of what she was telling me was correct. That was impressive. It was also a stark contrast to those on forums I used to listen to give advice even though I knew from their own accounts that they were unable to find their own solutions, they could advise me on mine. She gave me homework. Some of it was strange, like washing my wife's feet, but some things were just plain, everyday activities that I didn't do because of my symptoms like going for a walk with my daughter. But it all made sense in retrospect. This was living in which you took chances and impacted the people in your life. No more hiding. I increased my chores around the house tenfold. Within weeks I stood on a ladder for three days and stained my deck. I went to ballgames and sat on bleachers and talked to people around me. I was not ever comfortable, but I was OK and began to feel human again. This is the main point. You have to behave like a person who is healthy because in reality you are. You only think there is something wrong because of how you feel. One evening after cleaning up our dinner I went outside to build a fire in our firepit. I was bending over and over to pick up wood and sort of noticed that my back was moving freely and easily. It was the last I heard from my pain. It has been several years now.

You are going to get better. You will restore your health to normalcy. There will be times that you will feel reluctant to do something, pressured, conflicted, but you will experience no more than normal fight or flight reactions that every human being on the planet experiences.

After reading the above, you either had one reaction or another. You either believed it or you didn't. The dividing line between those who recover from nervous illness, and those who don't is what they actually believe. You can write or chant affirmations until you are purple in the face, journal your life's story colored with lots of offensive words about your parents or ex-spouses or children, do yoga with eastern gurus, sit in sweat lodges, beat pillows with mini baseball bats, or many, many other interventions people have undertaken to overcome their problem, but until you do absolutely nothing except understand what you are doing wrong and fix it, nothing will improve.

What you are likely doing wrong is avoiding life. Specifically, you are avoiding discomfort. You've probably had this discomfort since childhood, but that isn't important. You were born sensitive, and you have little resistance to stress in your nervous system. You get powerful symptoms when stressed. You have difficulty concentrating, can't organize your life well, avoid social interaction, avoid any activity you think might cause embarrassment, avoid doing the most basic chores or daily living because they are boring. Instead you fill your time with things that command your attentive energy. More probably you do more than one. The biggest one I see is staying on this forum or another, posting your thoughts or those of others, getting into arguments about things that don't matter to anyone, including you. If you are an adult, you need to work. That is what adults do. Even if you don't do it for money, volunteer. Read some Thomas Carlyle. He'll inspire you.

Meanwhile, there are people who love you who are watching you do this, have probably sought many times to encourage you to get back to living, but have met with such resistance that they have stopped altogether. The choice to stop is yours. You are no different in that respect than a drug addict. The decision has to come from inside you. It is a simple act of the will. It is not complicated and does not require the intervention of a counselor or guru. You have to be so tired of being miserable that you decide once and for all to fix this, to live courageously, and to stop coddling your precious feelings. Everyone alive suffers embarrassment at one time or another, and you are not so important that you can't accept it. It angers you, perhaps to the point of temper tantrums, that there are demands upon your time. You must stop seeing your failures or upsets as anything more than normal, average occurrences. Because objectively, that's what they are. Ask a few people what they've struggled through, and you're likely to be surprised. Then think to yourself, “Wow, if that person can do all this after going through what he has, I should be able to also.” You can, of course, if you believe it.

Lastly, there are many people who offer advice on this forum. Many of them are well-intended when they offer their advice, but their advice is limited to their own reading, life experience, and ability to understand. Mine is no different. I was terribly excited about helping others and for several years worked with those whose problems couldn't be seen on an MRI but wouldn't resolve. The ones that got better stopped excusing themselves and went about their lives. Those that didn't continued to malinger, blame childhood trauma and look ubiquitously for treatment programs and methods that were expensive and untested.

Here are the most common pitfalls I see with recovery:

1) Believing that you must do or not do something because it was written by a doctor, especially Dr. Sarno. I've read scores of threads here that make me shake my head because people actually erect mental barriers of warning that if they were to stretch to relieve their pain that they "send a message to their unconscious that there is a structural problem." Really? If this is a benign condition, how can you hurt yourself? Stop worrying. That's the real issue.

2) I have read the advice of those who advocate psychotherapy (Freudian, Jungian, etc.) for dealing with these problems. Trace those statements back to their origins, and you will find someone with a financial interest in those practices with 100% certainty. If a person has labored through what I call getting their Freud patch at psychology camp, they're damn well gonna make it worth their while. Avoid these people and their advice and please, please, please stop buying their books and DVD's. You have a shelf loaded down with them already and here you sit reading the words of an educated moron.

3) You and your experience are unique, but not exceptional. In other words, stop seeing impediments to your happiness in every act of life. Expect and accept discomfort, disappointment, even grief. It won't kill you. Fear is the jailer of your life. You might even be fearful of your own anger with yourself or someone else. That's OK too, just stay determined to get the things done you need to in order to feel like a productive adult. If you can stop letting your "feelings" influence your life in any way, you will recover fully and not look back.

4) Finally, although it is not a requirement here or elsewhere, you need to understand and even ask for the experience of someone who offers advice. Never ask for or accept advice on finances from a homeless beggar. Use the same reasoning when getting advice for treating your anxiety or TMS as it is called here from someone who tells you with firm conviction what to do who meanwhile is suffering away, avoiding their own issues, especially those who spend the most time here. If you spend your time here, there is a tradeoff that you can't get back. Thank them kindly for their time and thoughtful offer, then ignore them completely.


"The first and final hurdle to getting well is and was and shall forever be when you no longer care how you feel because you have determined that your ailments are benign and can no longer scare you or keep you from accomplishing anything. A disciplined mental approach to thinking about accomplishing your daily tasks despite bodily rumblings is essential while you recover. Self-discipline is the no. 1 goal. You have to take it seriously and do it always. No exceptions. Despair over how you feel even for an instant has chemical byproducts that worsen the way you feel. Imagine what happens if you despair all day, every day for months or years over symptoms that are created out of despair to begin with. Ironic, isn't it?. The worst thing facing you is emotional chemical releases, which are nothing at all, really. They will burn up in time if allowed to without cycling through the additional negative reactions to how you feel."

"Here is something that you can do that will help, I think. Go to google and download the free ebook The Freedom of Life by Annie Payson Call. This was written over 100 years ago. It is a very good primer on nervous health and how it gets interrupted. Read especially the sections on how to deal with discomfort.

Then after reading it, keep track of the amount of time that you are spending thinking about your body and what it is doing, what you are restricting yourself from. You will find that you are living in a state of constant fear, which sets up vicious cycles of fight or flight responses. This is not terribly difficult to understand. The trick is to stop the cycles. The body in this state is never at rest, and your constant focus upon it makes it remain so. When you accept the diagnosis as TMS or anxiety or whatever benign condition, there should be a conscious effort then made to accept or ignore the pain and related sensations as transient, normal stress responses that will resolve when you no longer react to them fearfully. This will take some effort. Be patient with yourself. If you are impatient, that will trigger the stress response. If you get upset because you can't do something and want to, that will trigger it as well. Problem is most if not all of us have lived so stressfully and so reliant upon adrenaline to get through the day for so long that we think that is normal.

The thinking you just posted will lead to more illness. I have seen countless people whose refusal to accept the symptoms as stress related suffer endlessly, going from doctor to doctor and having them find nothing at all clinically wrong or getting some nebulous diagnosis like myofascial pain or fibromyalgia or CFS, which just led to more suffering because they read lots of scary stuff on the internet and didn't follow a set program of recovery. Anxiety conditions can last a lifetime if not interrupted on the conscious level. You must understand what is happening, accept that it is the ONLY thing causing your problems, and make a constant effort to stop fearing your symptoms. Simplify everything to prevent worry and you are on your way to lasting health.

If you allow yourself to ruminate about physical explanations, you are doomed. There is nothing that you can do to set your mind at ease even for a moment. I know. I was there for two years. You have to break this habit of self-diagnosis right away to get on the way back to health.

------

There is a point at which a person becomes willing to have their pain or gurgling gut or dizziness or weak legs. This is the point at which they go away. It is an amazing thing to allow yourself to suffer, which by definition is its antithesis, which ends it forever. The reason you suffer is because you are unwilling to have these symptoms. If you were, you wouldn't have them. This isn't some mantra chant from eastern religion, but a fact that you can live in your own life. Be willing to suffer and you end all suffering. Think that over. Invite your pain to increase, and you will see that it will diminish.

Once you have reached a point where nothing can affect you in the way it now does, you will be rid of the pain forever. It will have no purpose in continuing. You won't dread it. You won't pine for it to be gone. You will have figured out that it is, as Art states, a manifestation of stress, which only grows as you add your own reactive stress to it. Without this reaction, it is a normal occurrence, no different than sweating out a sports game on the couch.

Bump on RogueWave’s absolutely brilliant repost 5 years ago from Hillbilly. This is arguably the best explanation I have ever seen as to why I have had TMS Symptoms most of my life, and how to get rid of them.
 
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Bump on RogueWave’s absolutely brilliant posts 5 years ago. This is arguably the best explanation I have ever seen as to why I have had TMS Symptoms most of my life, and how to get rid of them.

One follow-up Rogue. What do you think the role is of repressed emotions, like sadness, rage, etc.? As you know, this was an integral part of the Sarno model.
 
One follow-up Rogue. What do you think the role is of repressed emotions, like sadness, rage, etc.? As you know, this was an integral part of the Sarno model.

I honestly don’t give them as much focus as looking at TMS as an aspect of generalized anxiety. In fact, I believe that focusing on these types of things could vary well slow one’s progress. Into your previous point, this is exactly why traditional therapeutic methods didn’t really improve outcomes significantly in TMS patients.

I think this is simply an aspect that Dr. Sarno got wrong. Is the distraction from the emotional state part of secondary gain? I believe this is so in many patients, but this is not the primary driver for TMS symptomology. Dr. Sarno himself at the towards the end of his life said that if he were to rename TMS, he would’ve called it something different altogether because he realized it affected more than muscles. Again, if we look at the symptoms of generalized anxiety states, they lineup very clearly with what Dr. Sarno was seeing.

Simply put, TMS symptoms come from an chronically overstimulated nervous systemx i.e. a body stuck in the state of fight or flight, where the sympathetic over dominates the para sympathetic. This clearly explains the pathophysiology of all the symptoms we can see. I guarantee you most people suffering from TMS have more than physical pain in most cases, whether it be a sleeping problem, G.I. problem or any other symptoms that are under parasympathetic control, of which there can be many.

I’m absolutely not saying that childhood traumas, and other issues don’t play a part in the formation of these states, but it is unnecessary to approve these issues in order to cure a TMS patient.

I firmly believe the primary driver of continuing symptomology is over focus on the symptom or symptoms, keeping the body in a chronically tense state. As I said before, ultimately fear is the fuel, and it needs to be addressed as such.

If a patient feels that traditional therapy may be of help, I am more than willing to support that decision. But in my experience, it is simply unnecessary, and this is a matter as ñ, Dr. Abraham Lowe once put it, of ‘training the Will’ to view the symptoms as nothing more than the nervous system ‘blowing off steam”’, no matter how uncomfortable they may be.
 
I honestly don’t give them as much focus as looking at TMS as an aspect of generalized anxiety. In fact, I believe that focusing on these types of things could vary well slow one’s progress. Into your previous point, this is exactly why traditional therapeutic methods didn’t really improve outcomes significantly in TMS patients.

I think this is simply an aspect that Dr. Sarno got wrong. Is the distraction from the emotional state part of secondary gain? I believe this is so in many patients, but this is not the primary driver for TMS symptomology. Dr. Sarno himself at the towards the end of his life said that if he were to rename TMS, he would’ve called it something different altogether because he realized it affected more than muscles. Again, if we look at the symptoms of generalized anxiety states, they lineup very clearly with what Dr. Sarno was seeing.

Simply put, TMS symptoms come from an chronically overstimulated nervous systemx i.e. a body stuck in the state of fight or flight, where the sympathetic over dominates the para sympathetic. This clearly explains the pathophysiology of all the symptoms we can see. I guarantee you most people suffering from TMS have more than physical pain in most cases, whether it be a sleeping problem, G.I. problem or any other symptoms that are under parasympathetic control, of which there can be many.

I’m absolutely not saying that childhood traumas, and other issues don’t play a part in the formation of these states, but it is unnecessary to approve these issues in order to cure a TMS patient.

I firmly believe the primary driver of continuing symptomology is over focus on the symptom or symptoms, keeping the body in a chronically tense state. As I said before, ultimately fear is the fuel, and it needs to be addressed as such.

If a patient feels that traditional therapy may be of help, I am more than willing to support that decision. But in my experience, it is simply unnecessary, and this is a matter as ñ, Dr. Abraham Lowe once put it, of ‘training the Will’ to view the symptoms as nothing more than the nervous system ‘blowing off steam”’, no matter how uncomfortable they may be.


RogueWave - thank you very much for such a clarifying response. I personally believe repressed emotions are an issue for me, given my very traumatic childhood.

Having said that, a huge, enormous challenge for me is my fear of the symptoms. And my personal experience is that when my fear increases, my pain is worse which feeds the vicious pain-fear cycle.

When my symptoms are high, especially if they get worse, I find it damn near impossible to not fear the symptoms. Any suggestions on how to overcome this challenge?
 
RogueWave - thank you very much for such a clarifying response. I personally believe repressed emotions are an issue for me, given my very traumatic childhood.

Having said that, a huge, enormous challenge for me is my fear of the symptoms. And my personal experience is that when my fear increases, my pain is worse which feeds the vicious pain-fear cycle.

When my symptoms are high, especially if they get worse, I find it damn near impossible to not fear the symptoms. Any suggestions on how to overcome this challenge?
There are multiple pathways. Some people find it helpful to talk to their fear or to the brain, some yell at it. Some desensitize their nervous system through slow push through the symptoms, use of visualization, meditation, exercise. Some use creative writing. Your goal is to convince your brain that you are safe.
 
One thing I noticed from my original significant healing from TMS, and which repeatedly holds true through all the minor hiccups that have followed, is that certain feelings arise when TMS is truly accepted. These feelings include:

extreme confidence
invincibility
awe at yourself
feeling like you are on cloud 9
extreme resilience - even if my whole family died, I'd be ok
profoundly believing in TMS all over again, in an epiphanic state almost on the level of a religious experience

These feelings and TMS symptoms never occur simultaneously. It's impossible because they seem to be opposites, I guess. They are all the opposite of fear.

If you are suffering, when is the last time you felt any of the above feelings? I'm guessing not for a loooong time. Maybe they even feel foreign. They can be difficult to manufacture, though, I admit. But it seems this is how we ought to live.
 
One thing I noticed from my original significant healing from TMS, and which repeatedly holds true through all the minor hiccups that have followed, is that certain feelings arise when TMS is truly accepted. These feelings include:

extreme confidence
invincibility
awe at yourself
feeling like you are on cloud 9
extreme resilience - even if my whole family died, I'd be ok
profoundly believing in TMS all over again, in an epiphanic state almost on the level of a religious experience

These feelings and TMS symptoms never occur simultaneously. It's impossible because they seem to be opposites, I guess. They are all the opposite of fear.

If you are suffering, when is the last time you felt any of the above feelings? I'm guessing not for a loooong time. Maybe they even feel foreign. They can be difficult to manufacture, though, I admit. But it seems this is how we ought to live.
Sounds about right. But next round of TMS adds another feeling: sense of humility.
 
Actually for me it was sustaining an ACTUAL injury, like breaking my ankle..... That brought me back down to earth, haha. And unfortunately it instilled a little bit of anxiety in me that I am still trying to shake. TMS is a mindset, but we live in a real world with actual dangers all the time....
 
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