What else is there - Seriously

[miffybunny]

Not a 'to do' list, but someone on the forum recommended to: "Ask yourself several times each day when working, walking or performing daily tasks, “What does my heart think about this? How does my heart feel?” You may ask this question about people, situations, or changes in the flow of life. Eventually, you will “feel” or hear an answer from your inner self. You will know that this is your answer. (Truth is simple so your answer will probably be short.)". And, I don't know what @miffybunny might think about the suggestions on this website re getting into one's heart space https://bemorewithless.com/heartspace/ (How to Create Heart Space (and why it's a big deal) - Be More with Less), but they seem to me to be gently profound/helpful, so I think I'm going to follow some of those things to open up and move down from my head and into my heart space.

Love this!! THIS is a big deal. All the rest truly isn't.

 

[BloodMoon]

So if our life experience eventually shifts our physiological state of being, and those stress hormones change how we proceed in life (and become addictive), you can see how we just end up repeating ourselves, and the body gets locked into a state of being, independent of its environment.

An 'uh ah' moment for me reading this. It explains why when I left my very stressful career, my symptoms immediately got worse rather than better and continued to worsen and I was then left unable to physically do any sort of job.

 

[tgirl]

Forget about the pain, and observe how often you are focused on any stressor throughout the day. Again, the brain doesn't differentiate between stressors, so if they are the constant focus, how can you expect a different result in the body.

Rogue Wave I thought about this statement yesterday and realize I can think stressful, negative thoughts frequently, I mean a lot - thoughts about my symptoms, people and on and on. My question is this, I don’t necessarily feel a surge in adrenaline, or increased heart rate when focussing negatively, but even so, do you feel this sort of counterproductive thinking can be maintaining the pain and general anxiety?

Also, you asked, if we truly believe in TMS, then why are we on this site. Good question. After giving it some thought I realized that I have a bit of an obsessive nature, I’m a worrier, and possibly don’t trust my body as much as I should. I feel fearful in general, yet travelling to sketchy places doesn’t concern me in the least. Lol. This distrust in my body in itself is strange as I’m very healthy.

I am always searching for the person with my exact symptoms who healed. Definitely, I don’t want to hear about the ones who haven’t. I realize this is a form of obsession.

Rogue Wave or Miffybunny, if either of you can comment on this I’d appreciate it.

 

[RogueWave]

@BloodMoon, in regards to your previous post about what to do in an acute situation, I usually tell patients to keep studying TMS, but to use whatever they need to help decrease the pain at that time. In Traditional Chinese Medicine, there is a saying that goes 'When there is urgency, treat the symptom, when there is time, treat the cause.' Most people will have a harder time accepting and understanding TMS when they are in acute pain, unless they have recovered from it previously and really understand what is happening.

So do whatever you can to calm the pain down, because ultimately the pain will just become another stressor. Of course it's still a good idea to start working on the TMS itself, but in those severe instances it will probably take longer.

@tgirl Yes, that type of thinking will keep the TMS process going! Look at it more broadly: Whether I'm focused on my pain, a bill due, my job, or anything else that causes a stress response, it's the type of thoughts and the stress response that matters, NOT the thing that's causing it. This is the repetitive addiction loop we've been talking about, and we all do it....until we don't The body stays in a TMS state because we unconsciously keep saying/thinking/doing things that keep it there.

The brain doesn't differentiate between stressors. So thousands of years ago, if you were getting chased by an animal through the woods, the stress hormone release would be the same today if you had bills piling up with no way to pay them. It's just another threat to survival.

This can also be seen in thoughts like "what if I'm not good enough, pretty enough, etc" as Miffy has mentioned. All 'threats' of sorts, and all will evoke stress responses to different degrees.

And yes, constantly looking for reassurance here will eventually work against you. Really, really think about it. TMS is a totally benign condition (which it is), and you fully accept that, what are you doing here? What is it you're looking for?

This is why Hillbilly stopped posting here. It was his final lesson to everyone! He said everything he could about TMS and his experience, and his final words were basically 'Get off this forum and go live! If I keep writing I'm just going to be repeating myself, and you'll just keep reading and sticking around."

If you search is name, you can read his posts BTW. Highly recommended, but just for now

 

[miffybunny]

Hi @tgirl,

Just to add to RogueWave's comment. When I embarked on the journey, so to speak, I became aware of the fact that doubt was pervasive throughout my life...doubt in myself, others and my own body. Patterns of doubt leave almost no room for confidence and trust (trust in yourself and trust in the process). I also had to dismantle the false beliefs I had about myself. Most of "healing" (you are already well but just don't realize it yet but I'll use that word) involves clearing out false beliefs like "I am fundamentally flawed or broken" or "I'm somehow different' than others, therefore I can't get better". This leads me to my next point which is the crux of this whole thread and the question RogueWave posed "If you believe in TMS what are you doing here?" or in the case of the OP, "If you don't believe in TMS what are you doing here?" lol. The solution is to STOP searching and looking for reasons why TMS does not apply to you. All that does is take you back to the medical merry go round. TMS is TMS is TMS....no matter where it shows up in the body or how, or severity or duration. It's ALL the SAME. It's neural circuit (learned pain) pain stemming from the brain. Dr, Schubiner has said once you have ruled out the structural and the catastrophic, it's time to rule in TMS. Stop looking for reasons why it doesn't apply to you or why you are different or somehow terminally unique and doomed. I could not find anyone with my same story who recovered, People with my story were in wheelchairs, had amputations or commit suicide. They call CRPS "the suicide disease". How's that for negative suggestion? The solution is the SAME for everyone. It's calming down the brain (through our thoughts) and calming the body (through behaviors). Looking for details and getting hung up on the why will only delay progress. The road map is the same for everyone at a high level even though our life journeys are unique.

 

[plum]

@miffybunny and @RogueWave

Thank you for creating such an amazing thread. Everything that anyone needs to know to heal has been generously and insightfully described by you both. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading all your posts, and I remember Hillbilly from back in the day! That man is a legend.

To those who are struggling this thread is the best Christmas gift you’ll receive.

Much love

 

[BloodMoon]

@BloodMoon, in regards to your previous post about what to do in an acute situation, I usually tell patients to keep studying TMS, but to use whatever they need to help decrease the pain at that time. In Traditional Chinese Medicine, there is a saying that goes 'When there is urgency, treat the symptom, when there is time, treat the cause.' Most people will have a harder time accepting and understanding TMS when they are in acute pain, unless they have recovered from it previously and really understand what is happening.

So do whatever you can to calm the pain down, because ultimately the pain will just become another stressor. Of course it's still a good idea to start working on the TMS itself, but in those severe instances it will probably take longer.

Thank you for this @RogueWave and for all of your other postings on here. I have downloaded 'The Freedom from Life' by Annie Payson Call and 'Mental Health Through Will-Training' by Dr Abraham Low on to my kindle for my 'just before bedtime' reading. I see myself in the pages of the latter book (I haven't started the Payson Call book yet) especially with regard to the hatred of doing mundane tasks. So, I made myself clear out my wardrobe this afternoon and, as recommended in the book, attributed some meaning to the process, e.g. that some of my unwanted clothes will help a local charity and enjoyed chatting with my husband as he cleared out his wardrobe along side me...I'm moving into my heart space @miffybunny (to borrow the heart graphic from Plum whose sentiments I second).

 

[RogueWave]

Thank you for this @RogueWave and for all of your other postings on here. I have downloaded 'The Freedom from Life' by Annie Payson Call and 'Mental Health Through Will-Training' by Dr Abraham Low on to my kindle for my 'just before bedtime' reading. I see myself in the pages of the former book (I haven't started the Payson Call book yet) especially with regard to the hatred of doing mundane tasks. So, I made myself clear out my wardrobe this afternoon and, as recommended in the book, attributed some meaning to the process, e.g. that some of my unwanted clothes will help a local charity and enjoyed chatting with my husband as he cleared out his wardrobe along side me...I'm moving into my heart space @miffybunny (to borrow a heart from Plum whose sentiments I second).

Congrats! Of course no pressure, and no rush, but I look forward to your healing story

 

[tgirl]

@BloodMoon, in regards to your previous post about what to do in an acute situation, I usually tell patients to keep studying TMS, but to use whatever they need to help decrease the pain at that time. In Traditional Chinese Medicine, there is a saying that goes 'When there is urgency, treat the symptom, when there is time, treat the cause.' Most people will have a harder time accepting and understanding TMS when they are in acute pain, unless they have recovered from it previously and really understand what is happening.

So do whatever you can to calm the pain down, because ultimately the pain will just become another stressor. Of course it's still a good idea to start working on the TMS itself, but in those severe instances it will probably take longer.

@tgirl Yes, that type of thinking will keep the TMS process going! Look at it more broadly: Whether I'm focused on my pain, a bill due, my job, or anything else that causes a stress response, it's the type of thoughts and the stress response that matters, NOT the thing that's causing it. This is the repetitive addiction loop we've been talking about, and we all do it....until we don't The body stays in a TMS state because we unconsciously keep saying/thinking/doing things that keep it there.

The brain doesn't differentiate between stressors. So thousands of years ago, if you were getting chased by an animal through the woods, the stress hormone release would be the same today if you had bills piling up with no way to pay them. It's just another threat to survival.

This can also be seen in thoughts like "what if I'm not good enough, pretty enough, etc" as Miffy has mentioned. All 'threats' of sorts, and all will evoke stress responses to different degrees.

And yes, constantly looking for reassurance here will eventually work against you. Really, really think about it. TMS is a totally benign condition (which it is), and you fully accept that, what are you doing here? What is it you're looking for?

This is why Hillbilly stopped posting here. It was his final lesson to everyone! He said everything he could about TMS and his experience, and his final words were basically 'Get off this forum and go live! If I keep writing I'm just going to be repeating myself, and you'll just keep reading and sticking around."

If you search is name, you can read his posts BTW. Highly recommended, but just for now

I have read a few threads by Hillbilly. He explains it all so well, but I guess you have to live it and not just read about it. I really have to get a grip. I know I have gotten caught up in the ‘looking for one more success story’ way of thinking and I will consciously try to stop or limit this. Thanks for your invaluable input Rogue Wave. I look forward to the day when I can log on to add my success story.

 

[tgirl]

Hi @tgirl,

Just to add to RogueWave's comment. When I embarked on the journey, so to speak, I became aware of the fact that doubt was pervasive throughout my life...doubt in myself, others and my own body. Patterns of doubt leave almost no room for confidence and trust (trust in yourself and trust in the process). I also had to dismantle the false beliefs I had about myself. Most of "healing" (you are already well but just don't realize it yet but I'll use that word) involves clearing out false beliefs like "I am fundamentally flawed or broken" or "I'm somehow different' than others, therefore I can't get better". This leads me to my next point which is the crux of this whole thread and the question RogueWave posed "If you believe in TMS what are you doing here?" or in the case of the OP, "If you don't believe in TMS what are you doing here?" lol. The solution is to STOP searching and looking for reasons why TMS does not apply to you. All that does is take you back to the medical merry go round. TMS is TMS is TMS....no matter where it shows up in the body or how, or severity or duration. It's ALL the SAME. It's neural circuit (learned pain) pain stemming from the brain. Dr, Schubiner has said once you have ruled out the structural and the catastrophic, it's time to rule in TMS. Stop looking for reasons why it doesn't apply to you or why you are different or somehow terminally unique and doomed. I could not find anyone with my same story who recovered, People with my story were in wheelchairs, had amputations or commit suicide. They call CRPS "the suicide disease". How's that for negative suggestion? The solution is the SAME for everyone. It's calming down the brain (through our thoughts) and calming the body (through behaviors). Looking for details and getting hung up on the why will only delay progress. The road map is the same for everyone at a high level even though our life journeys are unique.

Thank you for your lovely response Miffybunny. Since I have been checked out by doctors and nothing can been found, no matter how bizarre my symptoms are, I know in order to rid myself of this I will have to lose my fear, let go of my obsessing and learn to believe in myself. I have let it get so out of hand that I feel myself almost on the verge of a panic attack because of the sensations at times. It’s been a long time, but I can do this. Cheers!

 

[BloodMoon]

Congrats! Of course no pressure, and no rush, but I look forward to your healing story

Thank you, @RogueWave...I shall look forward to writing it and letting you know

 

[Kozas]

I had very powerful experience yesterday. I was watching movies with my family all day. And all day - like usually - I was thinking about my pain. Then, when the day was ending I was like 'to hell with this, I accept this pain, and will not worry about it anymore'. I felt like my pain in teeth is washing away, and stomach is filling with air, removing my pain. It only lasted for a few seconds, but those few seconds were the first one since 2011 when I wasn't in any pain. I think I know my answer. It's not journaling, it's not finding some buried emotions. It just accepting things how they are. This would probably not work for everyone, but I think it's the only thing that can help me.

 

[miffybunny]

Hi @Kozas ,


Acceptance (allowing) is the opposite of resistance. What you are referring to is a "state of being" and this goes much deeper than thought. It's at the very CORE of healing. It is also incredibly hard to explain in words but it's truth. Acceptance of the self and acceptance of what is.

 

[RogueWave]

I had very powerful experience yesterday. I was watching movies with my family all day. And all day - like usually - I was thinking about my pain. Then, when the day was ending I was like 'to hell with this, I accept this pain, and will not worry about it anymore'. I felt like my pain in teeth is washing away, and stomach is filling with air, removing my pain. It only lasted for a few seconds, but those few seconds were the first one since 2011 when I wasn't in any pain. I think I know my answer. It's not journaling, it's not finding some buried emotions. It just accepting things how they are. This would probably not work for everyone, but I think it's the only thing that can help me.

Congrats! That’s a big breakthrough by direct experience.

Stop seeing it as a a stress/threat, and your body will stop treating it like one.

Break the cycle, ‘get out of the way,’ and the body will take care of itself

 

[BloodMoon]

This is also why most TMS sufferers usually have other chronic problems besides just pain. As I mentioned before, blood and resources are diverted away from digestion and reproductive areas, so problems in those areas are common for TMS sufferers. A body in survival mode can often have sleep problems as well, because it can't go into deeper rest states. The brain obviously wouldn't want you to fall asleep if your life were being threatened! There are for more potential problems that can occur, but that goes beyond this post.

I have been re-reading all of your postings on this thread to keep me encouraged, @RogueWave, and I'm curious (albeit I know that 'curiosity killed the cat'!) what these 'more potential problems' could be?...I have been suffering with severe (very visible) red hot inflammation in one part of my body that consultant doctors can't give me a proper explanation for, and I wondered if that's the kind of thing you had in mind when you wrote those words - or perhaps you had autoimmune diseases in mind...or maybe something else entirely?

Also, how do you personally deal/cope with situations like you described where, for instance, you want to yell at your boss, but you can't which, as you say, is like putting your feet on the gas peddle and break at the same time. (My situation is that I'm an only child and find myself responsible for the welfare of my 93 year old dad who tries my patience - he's an absolute handful and I find myself biting my tongue so much of the time, which I know isn't good for me...journalling about it or talking to my husband about it doesn't seem to help much, if at all.) Thanks in advance.

 

[RogueWave]

I have been re-reading all of your postings on this thread to keep me encouraged, @RogueWave, and I'm curious (albeit I know that 'curiosity killed the cat'!) what these 'more potential problems' could be?...I have been suffering with severe (very visible) red hot inflammation in one part of my body that consultant doctors can't give me a proper explanation for, and I wondered if that's the kind of thing you had in mind when you wrote those words - or perhaps you had autoimmune diseases in mind...or maybe something else entirely

Also, how do you personally deal/cope with situations like you described where, for instance, you want to yell at your boss, but you can't which, as you say, is like putting your feet on the gas peddle and break at the same time. (My situation is that I'm an only child and find myself responsible for the welfare of my 93 year old dad who tries my patience - he's an absolute handful and I find myself biting my tongue so much of the time, which I know isn't good for me...journalling about it or talking to my husband about it doesn't seem to help much, if at all.) Thanks in advance.

To answer your first question, there are many (check out this immense list from anxietycentre.org: https://www.anxietycentre.com/anxiety-symptoms.shtml#anxiety-symptoms-list (Anxiety Symptoms & Signs) ), and your inflammation very well could be. You've already been checked out, so I'm assuming they ruled anything else out...? @miffybunny's personal experience from a couple pages back showed a very intense inflammatory condition as well, so yes, it's entirely possible.

As far as your second question goes, that's more difficult to answer. I can only tell you what I did personally, but @Ace1 wrote a very thorough "Keys To Healing" on here that goes into far more depth. Plus, keep in mind it will be more difficult when you're 'in the trenches'. Like Mike Tyson said: 'Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face!' We can talk techniques all you want, but using them during intense periods will take some practice. I still 'fail' occasionally, but I've come a loooonng way. And I was one angry, chronically resentful guy! So if I can get there, you can too.

Personally, I meditated and read more when I had the time. Forcing these things can sometimes create more stress, so do what you can. This will help calm the body down more in between the stressful periods, and that's important.

But my main technique was to go over the readings regularly, so I was more confident about what was going on. And during intense stress, I'd try to just observe my body having the reactions it was having, and not 'get involved' so to speak. This took a lot of practice! But the more I did it, the faster the feelings and sensations passed. For instance, before I might get cut off in traffic, swear, grip the wheel tightly, tailgate the person....but as I changed, I'd get those same urges, but I'd just let them wash through me, understanding what they were, and not letting them dictate my thoughts and feelings after the initial rush. Biochemically, this is not much different than an addict not acting on the urge to use. We all have become so habituated and addicted to stress hormones, we don't know what it's like to be at a normal, relaxed level, so we think running around tense all the time is normal!

So you can try that, and please search for Ace1's keys to healing. And as I mentioned, really studying Hillbilly's posts, Dr. Low's book, and changing my reactions throughout the day are really what ended up allowing me to heal. It's a process, so be nice to yourself

 

[BloodMoon]

Hi @RogueWave. That's all really helpful. Something I'm taking on board from Dr Low's book is about being 'average'...I now see that I expect myself to be, and behave, better than the average person...It is though, of course, a habit/thought pattern that's not so easy to break. And, yes, I have been checked out medically re the inflammation, but it's not easy to accept that it's 'only' TMS when it looks so alarming and is extremely painful and I'm told by my doctors every time it flares up to take antibiotics "just in case it's an infection, to prevent the possibility of an abscess or sepsis"...I'm endeavouring to get on with life though despite this, paying as little 'mind'/attention to it as is humanly possible. Many, many thanks, @RogueWave.

 

[miffybunny]

Hi @BloodMoon,

Unfortunately there is a huge deficit in education when it comes to doctors and chronic pain and that includes the concept of inflammation (swelling). When I was in the throes of "CRPS" my knees and feet were quite swollen, lobster red and mottled in color. Visually it was alarming. Sometimes my feet would turn blue or grey and at one point both feet and both legs looked like they had a terrible sunburn. I have seen people in waiting rooms that looked like their skin was covered in tattoos. I saw a woman who wore a wig because the crps was in her scalp. The brain can manifest in infinite ways. There are 2 types of inflammation: Macro and Micro. Macro inflammation occurs when there is infection or auto antibodies (like in gout or rheumatoid arthritis). It occurs in a specific location (a joint or appendix for ex) and can be seen with the naked eye. Macro inflammation, is a result of white blood cells that are trying to fight the infection or inflammatory agent. With Micro Inflammation, on the other hand, it's not something that can be seen with the naked eye and is a slow process that occurs and recedes over long time frames. Some examples are walls of arteries (arteriosclerosis ) or in the gums. Sometimes blood tests will point to inflammation (CRP or sedimentation). All humans have some degree of micro inflammation however. It's normal and universal.

I believe that in your case (as it was in mine), it's "inflammation" that triggers the danger center in the brain to activate pain, which in turn, causes tissue damage that affects sensory nerves to carry a danger signal to the brain. So it becomes this feedback loop of symptoms (swelling or macro inflammation) that stems from the brain and not infection or some kind of disease pathology. When we lose our fear and do the tms work, all of these alarming symptoms and visuals go away.

 

[tgirl]

Rogue Wave and Miffybunny, your opinions mean a lot to me, so I want to put this out there, just once, and then hopefully I can move on. People are always saying that symptoms don’t matter, that it can all be TMS. I guess I have felt my symptoms are rather unique, so I’d love to have some reassurance (I know this isn’t ideal) that my sensations fit the TMS mold.

I have experienced other TMS symptoms in the past, and even my doctor said I have been in and out of his office with various symptoms that just went away on their own. He feels I have anxiety. I have been anxious for as long as I can remember, but it seems to be taking on a life of its own. What I have now is a prickly hypersensitive sensation on the skin of both legs. The feelings move around and are sometimes imperceptible. I don’t get it at night in bed when sleeping or reading. Clothing irritates me. In addition, I can get surges through my chest that result in the prickly skin feeling, almost like goosebumps. Even if someone touches the back of my neck I can get this. It all scares the hell out of me and I’ve had it a long time. This is actually my third bout. The first two went away quickly. I’ve done the medical circuit, including 3 neurologists, MRI’s, bloodwork and on and on and on. I feel the medical avenue is closed.

It would be a relief to me to believe 100 percent that this is a mind/body situation. I’m tired of feeling afraid of it. We are advised to check in with our emotions, but the emotion I feel most is fear, fear of the sensations. There are other things that come up too, such as anger etc., but it’s mostly fear.

The advice you two have given in this thread has been amazing and I think about it often. Thank you!

 

[BloodMoon]

Hi @BloodMoon,

Unfortunately there is a huge deficit in education when it comes to doctors and chronic pain and that includes the concept of inflammation (swelling). When I was in the throes of "CRPS" my knees and feet were quite swollen, lobster red and mottled in color. Visually it was alarming. Sometimes my feet would turn blue or grey and at one point both feet and both legs looked like they had a terrible sunburn. I have seen people in waiting rooms that looked like their skin was covered in tattoos. I saw a woman who wore a wig because the crps was in her scalp. The brain can manifest in infinite ways. There are 2 types of inflammation: Macro and Micro. Macro inflammation occurs when there is infection or auto antibodies (like in gout or rheumatoid arthritis). It occurs in a specific location (a joint or appendix for ex) and can be seen with the naked eye. Macro inflammation, is a result of white blood cells that are trying to fight the infection or inflammatory agent. With Micro Inflammation, on the other hand, it's not something that can be seen with the naked eye and is a slow process that occurs and recedes over long time frames. Some examples are walls of arteries (arteriosclerosis ) or in the gums. Sometimes blood tests will point to inflammation (CRP or sedimentation). All humans have some degree of micro inflammation however. It's normal and universal.

I believe that in your case (as it was in mine), it's "inflammation" that triggers the danger center in the brain to activate pain, which in turn, causes tissue damage that affects sensory nerves to carry a danger signal to the brain. So it becomes this feedback loop of symptoms (swelling or macro inflammation) that stems from the brain and not infection or some kind of disease pathology. When we lose our fear and do the tms work, all of these alarming symptoms and visuals go away.

Thank you so much for explaining this to me, @miffybunny. It gives me hope. I just wish I could lay off the antibiotics, but I'm too frightened that the inflammation will lead to an abscess, or even sepsis, and I'd kick myself if I end up at Accident and Emergency needing to have pus drained and in the process risking getting covid-19. (I'm in the UK and the hospitals here are packed to the gunwales with covid-19 patients suffering from a new 70% more transmissible strain of the virus.) I am though hoping that, despite taking antibiotics, I'll still be able to convince my my brain to stop causing the inflammation -- by not letting the inflammation and pain stop me from doing things and through paying it as little attention as possible. Something I keep telling myself is that I had 4 bouts of this back in 2017 (and on each occasion I took antibiotics) and then it went away (with only a little bit of occasional pain but no visible swelling, heat or redness) for just over 3 years, until now...and that shows that it's TMS. Also, it's happening in and around an area where I had a surgical operation back in 1997, and I know that the brain chooses such places in order to convince us that something sinisterly drastic is going on. The conscious me understands all of these things but, so far, getting through to my subconscious is another story.