• Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
  • Welcome to the new TMS Wiki server! Things aren't finished yet: email is not set up, so notification and password-reset emails don't go out, and new registrations are paused until email is installed. Details and updates are in this thread (click here). Locked out? Email tmswikisignups@gmail.com from the address where you receive TMS Wiki notifications.

What else is there - Seriously

@eskimoeskimo

For what it's worth I don't buy into repressed emotions at all. Decent theory at the time but nope. Had me stuck way to long looking for ghosts.

Everyone heals in all sorts of ways because they found their placebo.

There is no right way because no one has a clue! Even the best science at the moment will be proven wrong in the decades to come.

I feel people tap into some raw power of the human mind and there is no real good steps to follow for everyone. Because no one knows. Anyone who thinks they do is fooling themselves. If they cured themselves great !! That's all that matters .. but that isn't some objective truth. So maybe forget that it's even possible to find.

I think my engineering background makes me overanalyze each method and I effectively "kill" any chance it would help me.

I think the path is there and will not give up hope finding it.

N = 1

Meaning, it doesn't matter at all what works for others.

It matters what works for you only.

For me, having fun produces the best results but it's REALLY hard to get momentum when in pain.

But if there are things that help even a little bit , explore further. If something isn't helping, dump it it's trash. Doesn't matter who here had success with it or what Dr - to you it's trash

I've spent too long trying to follow others paths and advice, afraid if I set out on my own if get worse and devoured.

Screw that, I'll find my own way.
 
jamejamesjames1 said:
@eskimoeskimo

For what it's worth I don't buy into repressed emotions at all. Decent theory at the time but nope. Had me stuck way to long looking for ghosts.

Everyone heals in all sorts of ways because they found their placebo.

There is no right way because no one has a clue! Even the best science at the moment will be proven wrong in the decades to come.

I feel people tap into some raw power of the human mind and there is no real good steps to follow for everyone. Because no one knows. Anyone who thinks they do is fooling themselves. If they cured themselves great !! That's all that matters .. but that isn't some objective truth. So maybe forget that it's even possible to find.

I think my engineering background makes me overanalyze each method and I effectively "kill" any chance it would help me.

I think the path is there and will not give up hope finding it.

N = 1

Meaning, it doesn't matter at all what works for others.

It matters what works for you only.

For me, having fun produces the best results but it's REALLY hard to get momentum when in pain.

But if there are things that help even a little bit , explore further. If something isn't helping, dump it it's trash. Doesn't matter who here had success with it or what Dr - to you it's trash

I've spent too long trying to follow others paths and advice, afraid if I set out on my own if get worse and devoured.

Screw that, I'll find my own way.
Click to expand...

Thanks @jamejamesjames1 . Again I strongly connect with what you say. And thanks for not dismissing my doubts and questions as just defeatist naysaying. I really am trying to get somewhere, and I feel like I can't be the only one frustrated by the (at least seeming) inconsistencies and vagaries of this TMS stuff. But maybe trying to get it all ironed out is just a fool's errand. Btw, fun works best for me too. My negatively biased brain has all sorts of ways in its holster to dismiss the "success" I have with fun, but I'll just let that sleeping dog lie for now. Fun is good.
 
I guess such people probably wouldn’t still be on the forum, but I’m wondering if anyone else could chime in who has had some success with a strategy of “giving up” ??
 
BloodMoon said:
What you've made me realise is that I didn't actually enjoy going to the theatre, cinema and restaurants!..Not because I didn't like watching plays and movies and eating meals, but because of the things that one has to so often tolerate in connection with these things (e.g. flight delays, terrible service, people talking and rustling sweet/candy wrappers at the theatre and cinema, cramped and uncomfortable theatre seats etc) that spoiled these experiences for me. I meditate but I'm not more tolerant as a result, although I have recently found that I'm somewhat more accepting of life's irritations and disappointments when I take Eckhart Tolle's advice to "Accept this moment as if you had chosen it".
Click to expand...
I've had a 'wow - why I didn't see this before?' moment regarding the above in relation to @Mark1122's posting about PRI (also in this thread above)...I've now realised that my intolerance is 'False Power'; my parents didn't tolerate me as a small child, for example, talking and rustling sweet/candy wrappers at the theatre and cinema so now I can't stand/tolerate that sort of inconsiderate behaviour from adults. For anyone interested about PRI, the videos on Ingeborg Bosch's website explain the way the mind divides into two when we are helpless children - that is, when we don't get the support and attention we need. And one half of the mind that is 'walled off' contains the 'mechanisms'/obsolete defences that @Mark1122 listed in his posting; I've copied the 'mechanisms'/obsolete defences below. The videos 'Basic theory - A' onwards on are the most informative on Ingeborg Bosch's website imho https://www.pastrealityintegration.com/en/ (PRI, de kunst van bewust leven - Home)

"1. Fear (anxiety for example)
2. Primary defense (things you say to yourself that are not nice and probably not even true(like nobody likes me), depressions are here)
3. False hope (obsessions, if i just do this as good as i can everything will work out) But this is an illusions.
4. False power (Alot of anger etc and judgement of others)
5. Denial of needs (a state of mind where one doesn't feel a lot of emotions, or rather none at all, like addictions too)"

The aforementioned videos go some way to explain what we can do about all of this, but I shall need to read her book 'Past Reality Integration: 3 Steps to Mastering the Art of Conscious Living' to see if her methods will work for me. I'm getting the book and will post again in due course as to whether it helps me to more realisations and improvement/recovery from my pain and other symptoms. Looks promising. Thanks again, @Mark1122!

P.S. I recently came across this article about PRI https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2924504/ (The Importance of PRI Therapy for the Pastoral Counsellor) which says: "The effects of PRI therapy are scientifically still under research but they are already quite convincing in clinical practice. It is interesting to note that PRI shows important similarities with another recently developed method of psychotherapy, which has indeed been proven to be effective: EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) (Shapiro 2001; Servan-Schreiber 2003). Originally EMDR, which just as PRI has at its core the regression to the traumatic experience, was developed for the treatment of Post Traumatic Stress Disorders (PTSD), but it is also increasingly being used in the treatment of traumatic childhood experiences (De Jongh and ten Broeke 2004). An important difference between EMDR and PRI is that EMDR focuses on conscious and obviously severe traumas. PRI focuses mostly on less conscious and less obvious traumas. It starts at the other end with looking at disturbing and destructive defensive behaviour, through which childhood traumas can be accessed and uncovered."
 
Last edited:
Its working. You are on here talking about it. Your attention is there.

“My Brain Is Me”


Really? What happens if you get brain damage? Who are you then?

Your thoughts are so heavily influenced by your environment and surroundings. Other people decide who you are?

This is the actual problem. Your identity tied up in your mind. This is the stuff a psychologist won’t just jump right in and say. So as a disclaimer I’m just a man with no special education. Self taught I guess. You need to do some self discovery.


Eckhart Tolle’s teachings have done the most to help the struggles I’ve dealt with. I’ve studied it enough to have a degree. Over many months of practicing self awareness with brutal honesty things have become apparent.

With the self discovery you can discover the pain being used a diversion. The emotions that will just consume and attack you will have to come out without judgement. This is healing, and there’s absolutely nothing special about me accomplishing this. Anyone can.



eskimoeskimo said:
The diversion isn't working. I'm consumed with the pain and the mental conflicts in my head. Is it always a defense mechanism? I don't see what the pain is keeping me from facing. And sometimes I don't understand this framing of the brain as being some other being apart from 'me' trying to protect me. My brain is me.

Also, I've noticed that when I become really consumed by some other worry, which happens often, the pain doesn't diminish. It's just in addition to.
Click to expand...
 
Tms_joe said:
Its working. You are on here talking about it. Your attention is there.

“My Brain Is Me”


Really? What happens if you get brain damage? Who are you then?

Your thoughts are so heavily influenced by your environment and surroundings. Other people decide who you are?

This is the actual problem. Your identity tied up in your mind. This is the stuff a psychologist won’t just jump right in and say. So as a disclaimer I’m just a man with no special education. Self taught I guess. You need to do some self discovery.


Eckhart Tolle’s teachings have done the most to help the struggles I’ve dealt with. I’ve studied it enough to have a degree. Over many months of practicing self awareness with brutal honesty things have become apparent.

With the self discovery you can discover the pain being used a diversion. The emotions that will just consume and attack you will have to come out without judgement. This is healing, and there’s absolutely nothing special about me accomplishing this. Anyone can.
Click to expand...

Thanks tms_joe. I didn't meant so to suggest that my brain is the sum total of me. I meant that my brain isn't someone else. A lot of times we talk about the brain as if it's another person with its own secret agenda and this sometimes confuses me. That's all I was saying.
 
eskimoeskimo said:
Thanks tms_joe. I didn't meant so to suggest that my brain is the sum total of me. I meant that my brain isn't someone else. A lot of times we talk about the brain as if it's another person with its own secret agenda and this sometimes confuses me. That's all I was saying.
Click to expand...


Inspect that a little more. You just stated the root cause of your problems. Those words got chosen for a reason.


Not sure if it’s possible, but if you could go back and read this thread as an unbiased 3rd person you’d see loads of compassion from people that want to help someone who is struggling. The person struggling is putting up a defense of sorts.

What is that? How can a person’s brain/mind/self act against the best interests of the person? Inspect that deeply.








I realize that probably all of that is just confusing. That’s how the journey is. You found out you were wrong. Then you find out you had additional concepts wrong. Then you get frustrated. You regroup and try a new book, movie, therapist. Find out you had more wrong in the game of life. In between you get glimpses of serenity and salvation. It’s not linear so you feel hopeless or set back often, but you can recall points in time as a demarcation of sorts and realize you’ve made tremendous progress.


And life goes on, with lower median/avg stress levels. Priorities take a big shift, relationships change, hardships rock you, but not like before.
 
Tms_joe said:
Inspect that a little more. You just stated the root cause of your problems. Those words got chosen for a reason.


Not sure if it’s possible, but if you could go back and read this thread as an unbiased 3rd person you’d see loads of compassion from people that want to help someone who is struggling. The person struggling is putting up a defense of sorts.

What is that? How can a person’s brain/mind/self act against the best interests of the person? Inspect that deeply.








I realize that probably all of that is just confusing. That’s how the journey is. You found out you were wrong. Then you find out you had additional concepts wrong. Then you get frustrated. You regroup and try a new book, movie, therapist. Find out you had more wrong in the game of life. In between you get glimpses of serenity and salvation. It’s not linear so you feel hopeless or set back often, but you can recall points in time as a demarcation of sorts and realize you’ve made tremendous progress.


And life goes on, with lower median/avg stress levels. Priorities take a big shift, relationships change, hardships rock you, but not like before.
Click to expand...

Okay thanks tms_joe, I'll ponder this. Believe me, I am not at all blind to or unmoved by the compassion
 
I've made up my mind. This stuff makes no sense to me and does not work. 8 years is enough. Can't endure any longer. Time to cancel my account and delete all my messages. Goodbye
 
@eskimoeskimo

For what it's worth, I did a consult w Dr schubiner and layed out my sob story.

His opinion for me was trying to understand and integrate everyone's theories is causing me more stress and trying too many ways to heal is putting to much pressure and focus on it.

His advice was to give it all up, try not to fear the symptoms, and live my life anyway.

Probally pretty good advice, just hard to execute while in pain.

But it's refreshing that one of the leading voices basically said "stop". If a method isn't working for you just let it go.



And I'll completely contradict that if desperate you can try this other thing I'm looking into called dissolve your pain. The author mentions Sarno but seems to have his own opinions. It's basically a very specific visualization. Super annoying. But I tried it four times and it did work once so for a bit so...??
 
@eskimoeskimo

I'm sure this is the opposite of what anyone else will say, but, you probabally should go.

You have learned so much and it's all a jumbo and as helpful as everyone is each person has their own vibe... You got Sarno purists, meditation gurus, people who only speak in riddles (sorry but this type of person is not at all helpful haha), neuroplastic people, the anxiety people (me!)

It's a weird family and hodgepodge of people for sure. I think you have to identify with one and roll with it and ignore the rest. I'm just not sure I identify with any of it!!

Best of luck. Maybe you can get your brain uploaded to a machine and live the rest of your days as an Android.
 
People who speak only in riddles, lol.

eskimoeskimo, sorry to see you go. I hope you are able to have some success somehow. I’d recommend not deleting posts… it’s good for others to see what someone else has gone through with this, to know they’re not alone when it just doesn’t work.
 
@eskimoeskimo I too am sorry to see you go. And if you've already gone, you won't see this, but in case you do: I too have been struggling to shed my TMS symptoms. I've been finding some symptom relief of late though by simply doing some deep breathing regularly as I go about my day and especially every time I feel a spike of discomfort or pain or other symptoms or have a negative thought or feel anxious or angry about anything, i.e. breathing in for a count of 4 through the nose and then out through the mouth for a count for 4, for at least a few breaths (for longer if/when I want to spare the time). I'm doing this as a response to finding this video, which (although very wordy) was worth watching imho, if only to convince myself of the virtues of a daily practice of deep breathing to calm the brain and possibly reprogram it https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...&pf_rd_p=e632fea2-678f-4848-9a97-bcecda59cb4e. Professor Selena Bartlett, the woman being interviewed, is a brain scientist with many years of experience in her field (over 25 years, I think) who's majorly into neuroplasticity. (And she's written a book about her discoveries... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...&pf_rd_p=e632fea2-678f-4848-9a97-bcecda59cb4e.)

Wishing you well,

BloodMoon
 
Last edited:
I’m with you on this BloodMoon. I’ve had a much better week after following Selena Bartlett’s suggestions for breathing and acknowledging gratefulness from her interview with Positive Prime on YouTube. I also highly recommend Norman Doidge’s second book just to read the chapter on Michael Moskowitz which explains in layman’s terms how the brain literally changes because of chronic pain and his steps to regain control. It makes it much clearer for me when I understand the process. honestly Eskimo if you are still around please give it a go. I felt better after the first day and my pain is/was pretty out there. Cheers marls
 
Marls said:
I’m with you on this BloodMoon. I’ve had a much better week after following Selena Bartlett’s suggestions for breathing and acknowledging gratefulness from her interview with Positive Prime on YouTube. I also highly recommend Norman Doidge’s second book just to read the chapter on Michael Moskowitz which explains in layman’s terms how the brain literally changes because of chronic pain and his steps to regain control. It makes it much clearer for me when I understand the process. honestly Eskimo if you are still around please give it a go. I felt better after the first day and my pain is/was pretty out there. Cheers marls
Click to expand...
Hi Marls,

I believe it was your posting on another thread that got me watching the Selena Bartlett interview on YouTube - many thanks for that :)...I gave it a 'like'.

Could I ask what do you do regarding gratefulness? At the end of each day, I've been jotting down 5 new things I'm grateful for; is that what you do?

For anyone wanting to take Marls's advice to read the chapter about Michael Moskowitz in Norman Doidge's book, you can read the whole of that chapter (chapter 1) in the preview/'look inside' of the book on the amazon.co.uk website (hopefully, if you're in the US you'll still be able to see it on the UK site)...so you don't even have to buy the book (although the rest of the book is very interesting imo) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brains-Way...&keywords=norman+doidge&qid=1597928804&sr=8-2.

Best;

BloodMoon
 
Last edited:
Hi BloodMoon- what a great suggestion re the first chapter preview. “Good get” as the kids say.
Any time I am quiet, ie waking, drifting off, meditating I just quietly think “how lucky I am for etc”. I always gently smile and luckily (apart from this pain hiccup) I am usually a contented soul so I “feel” my gratefulness through my body. I find now at the lights or driving I can’t help but think “isn’t that gorgeous, how lucky I am to see it .... gee look at that cloud/horse blah”.
I am quietly delighted at the change in my discomfort. Up till today I’ve had minimal tummy flutters as well. Oh and my sleep is better. Hopefully we can compare positives along the way. Cheers marls
 
Marls said:
Hi BloodMoon- what a great suggestion re the first chapter preview. “Good get” as the kids say.
Any time I am quiet, ie waking, drifting off, meditating I just quietly think “how lucky I am for etc”. I always gently smile and luckily (apart from this pain hiccup) I am usually a contented soul so I “feel” my gratefulness through my body. I find now at the lights or driving I can’t help but think “isn’t that gorgeous, how lucky I am to see it .... gee look at that cloud/horse blah”.
I am quietly delighted at the change in my discomfort. Up till today I’ve had minimal tummy flutters as well. Oh and my sleep is better. Hopefully we can compare positives along the way. Cheers marls
Click to expand...
Hi Marls. Thanks for your reply. I felt a calm come over me just through reading your post...it's amazing what the use of words such as 'quiet', 'gentle' and 'contented' can do! :) Good to 'weave' gratefulness into our lives throughout the day as you're doing; I'm going to follow suit...I'm not generally automatically a contented soul, so I have to 'work' at remembering to look for things to feel grateful for...will combine this with the deep breathing that I'm now 'peppering' throughout my day. I'm also finding that deliberately smiling, especially when the pain or discomfort spikes, is helping too. I guess that even a 'put on' smile, whilst experiencing pain/discomfort, can serve to tell the primitive amygdala (I understand that it can be easily fooled) that things are actually okay and we're not in danger. And, yes, let's do keep in touch and compare positives along the way! :) Best wishes, BloodMoon
 
If you lack any desire to read this forum or TMS literature because your attention has moved onto more meaningful and positive things in your life don’t fight it. You are moving on...


FYI, that’s why many people heal and disappear. The focus on the problem kinda IS the problem. The last thing you want to do is focus back on the TMS. After enough time things get solidified enough that may not be a problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top