TMS minus the perfectionism and goodism

Are you a perfectionist?

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chad_DVM

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I see a lot of people lump all of us with TMS into the category of perfectionism and often goodism. I struggled for a couple of years to accept TMS, because in large, I am not either of these. Sure, I have made it far in life, one can say, but in general, I like to half-ass things. I read others talking about journaling, and "as perfectionists" we all try to write the perfect journals. Or as perfectionists, we try to work a perfect TMS program or we try to be overachievers in our recovery. This is not me. Are there moments in my life where I can see a tinge of perfectionism? Yes. But I would guess most people could say that. Generally, I am not a goodist. I do not adhere to social norms. Up until getting married at age 38 (i am now 40), I would seldom change my plans to help others out. I always addressed my own needs and almost never put other’s needs ahead of my own. In other words, I was and can still be a bit (or a lot) of a selfish prick.

It wasn't until I started to work through the SEP (Structured Educational Program) during which I saw other personality traits that can lead to TMS. I am of the Stoic personality type. To a T. I find it awkward/difficult to express my emotions. I rarely (if ever) have extreme emotions. Not showing emotion makes me fee like I am in control of my emotions, which is a defense mechanism to allowing me to feel like I am in control of my life. I am extremely embarrassed to cry in front of friends and family. Embarrassed is an understatement. I am flat out afraid of it. Hmm. To never express emotion. Yes, I think that just might lead to TMS. Why did it take me so long to realize this. People have always thought that nothing affects me. I have taken pride in the fact that nothing affects me. Except, the thing is, everything affects me. I just don't express it. It is re-routed to myriad body parts. And I feel horrible pain.

I also am a Legalist. I am a couple other personality traits that I found in the SEP.

Perhaps there are others out there (on this forum and elsewhere) who have a similar personality. Just thought I should share this. In case someone else is thinking, hmm, "I am not such a perfectionist and/or goodist." If this is the case, you are not alone.
 
Yup, that's me, pretty much. Although I don't really think of myself as selfish. I might put someone's (my children's) needs ahead of mine sometimes. I will pretty much never put someone else's wants before my needs, though! That way lies martyrdom, no thanks.
 
"Except, the thing is, everything affects me. I just don't express it"......

That's it. Simple Sarno 101 is it is the emotion generated and instantly repressed (we never even get a glimpse of it) that is the cause. It was when I became MORE stoic (on the outside) that my symptoms became unbearable. In fact, it wasn't even true stoicism which is actually a beautiful liberating kind of thing. It was just repression and I had no choice.

However, I didn't have to experience or release every single feeling and emotion to get rid of the symptoms. Just had to slowly acknowledge that they were there. Remember the story in Healing Back Pain about the guy who had to stack the hay bales perfectly? More than a couple of those vignettes point out that our traits manifest themselves in subtle ways. In fact, it was that inner admission that 'Hey.. there's stuff going on in me that I don't know or have any control over' that really knocked my ego down and began the recovery.

...and it still works every time.
 
I appreciate this thread so much! I read Sarno's book about a decade ago and it took me so, so long to relate to it bc I am so not a perfectionist/goodist/type A and so I automatically assumer that I didn't have TMS. I know these posts are from Ages ago, but just in case CHAD dvm is still out there reading-- THANK YOU!
 
feder said:
I appreciate this thread so much! I read Sarno's book about a decade ago and it took me so, so long to relate to it bc I am so not a perfectionist/goodist/type A and so I automatically assumer that I didn't have TMS. I know these posts are from Ages ago, but just in case CHAD dvm is still out there reading-- THANK YOU!
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I think the word perfectionism can mean different things.
Typically the word is used to describe someone who one would consider as being "anal."
Painstakingly perfect. The nerdy kid that sat up at the front of the class and did all their homework early.
That's not how I think of the word perfectionist in relation to TMS.
I think the TMS personality may have more to do with being VIEWED as having done things well.
Or.....have an excuse that "we didn't try" if we don't.
We want to be thought of as being wonderful. Being the best.

We often half ass it so we can tell ourselves, "I half-assed. Of course I didn't win, get the job, etc.....I'm not a loser, I didn't try!"
We can't really accept that we tried and failed.
When we do that, we are still exhibiting that need to be perfect.

And always we need others to think the best of us.


chad_DVM said:
I am extremely embarrassed to cry in front of friends and family. Embarrassed is an understatement. I am flat out afraid of it. Hmm. To never express emotion.
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See, that is a perfect example of perfectionism. Crying in front of friends and family is not "being perfect."
Even getting sick or dying is "not being perfect."
Anything that embarrasses us is a fear of not being perfect.
 
Booble said:
Anything that embarrasses us is a fear of not being perfect.
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Yep. If you walked into my pad or saw me in my daily dress you would NOT think I am a perfectionist. "What a LOP!".... A Lot of my younger friends laugh ;they call me 'the dude' from the Big Lebowski. Clothes are raggedy and paint covered, Furniture is all escapees from a junk yard...

BUT if you worked with me? If You went to the batting cages with me? OR if you sat in the studio with me? "That dude is CRAZY..He is like ridiculously demanding and intense"

Sarno wrote about the guy who worked on the ranch..couldn't see how the perfectionism applied...and then realized he had to stack the bales of hay perfectly. That little story helped me dial in where I am a perfectionist...Not in every thing, obviously, but in little pockets and mostly about stuff that is Very personal like effectiveness. TBH I think deep down most of us need to justify our existence...like we don't have a right to LIVE so we need to show the world we COULD be perfect if necessary.
 
Baseball65 said:
Clothes are raggedy and paint covered, Furniture is all escapees from a junk yard...

BUT if you worked with me? If You went to the batting cages with me? OR if you sat in the studio with me? "That dude is CRAZY..He is like ridiculously demanding and intense"
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You have just described me.
My clothes and house and well, my hygiene, are pretty much a mess.
But at work I have to think through all possible scenarios to make sure we do things absolutely the best way possible. Definitely overthink even the smallest of things.
 
I actually end up half assing a lot of stuff and putting myself first as well. I think it’s the guilt I feel from doing those things that tells me personally that I’m a perfectionist and a do-gooder.

If I don’t perform the best out of everyone at work and instead do the same amount of work I see others doing: I will feel guilty that I’m not doing better.

if I tell someone I can’t hangout with them because I need me time, or even if I just already had plans: I’ll feel guilty for blowing them off.

And I think what it comes down to is that I repress the anger I feel towards the feeling of guilt. Why am I feeling guilty? Why do I have to be better than everyone? Why should I constantly have to show up for everyone? I think that’s what makes me a perfectionist. I may not always be perfect; but when I’m not I beat the hell out of myself for it.
 
ValkyrKai said:
And I think what it comes down to is that I repress the anger I feel towards the feeling of guilt. Why am I feeling guilty? Why do I have to be better than everyone? Why should I constantly have to show up for everyone? I think that’s what makes me a perfectionist. I may not always be perfect; but when I’m not I beat the hell out of myself for it.
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Same here. Exactly.
I've been thinking about this lately. Someone here said something about ABANDONMENT.
I have a feeling that I haven't gone far enough on my WHYs.
I usually stop when I get to the part about wanting my (now dead) Mummy and Daddy to love me.
It always feels like that is the end reason for everything.
But what if there is another layer on top of that?
Why do they have to love me?
To the point where I have to be better than everyone else.
Especially my sister and brother.
It seems kind of obvious doesn't it?
If they don't love me, they might abandon me.
This must be something built into us for survival.
And now it makes us a little crazy. Hard on ourselves. Hidden rage when we are not the best and therefore risk abandonment.

Thoughts?
 
Booble said:
Same here. Exactly.
I've been thinking about this lately. Someone here said something about ABANDONMENT.
I have a feeling that I haven't gone far enough on my WHYs.
I usually stop when I get to the part about wanting my (now dead) Mummy and Daddy to love me.
It always feels like that is the end reason for everything.
But what if there is another layer on top of that?
Why do they have to love me?
To the point where I have to be better than everyone else.
Especially my sister and brother.
It seems kind of obvious doesn't it?
If they don't love me, they might abandon me.
This must be something built into us for survival.
And now it makes us a little crazy. Hard on ourselves. Hidden rage when we are not the best and therefore risk abandonment.

Thoughts?
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I think you’re right about it being built in. I think not feeling accepted can trigger the same exact feelings. I was thinking the other day about a how many kids in grade school thought I was weird and rejected me. And I think about how important it is for me to be liked by people. To the point where I will obsess about how someone felt about some throw away comment I made.
The way my brain will skip from “we’re fine” to “they’re mad” to “they hate me” in milliseconds is pretty astounding .

I predict positive self talk and asking the whys is going to be the key for me to overcoming those thoughts and feelings.

sorry if that’s a little off topic. But those are my thoughts!
 
ValkyrKai said:
I think you’re right about it being built in. I think not feeling accepted can trigger the same exact feelings. I was thinking the other day about a how many kids in grade school thought I was weird and rejected me. And I think about how important it is for me to be liked by people. To the point where I will obsess about how someone felt about some throw away comment I made.
The way my brain will skip from “we’re fine” to “they’re mad” to “they hate me” in milliseconds is pretty astounding .

I predict positive self talk and asking the whys is going to be the key for me to overcoming those thoughts and feelings.

sorry if that’s a little off topic. But those are my thoughts!
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Not off topic at all.
And no worries, we like you! :) :) :)

If preventing abandonment is "built-in" evolutionarily, which I think it is, we have to ask the question why does it cause more intensity for some of us compared with others. I think that part is probably a blend of genetic/biology AND our parents and siblings actions toward us AND any events that happened during our childhood related to possible abandonment. Events could be minor or major -- a joke made by parent when you were a small child, getting lost, a divorce, a parent's health crisis or death.
 
ValkyrKai said:
Why am I feeling guilty? Why do I have to be better than everyone? Why should I constantly have to show up for everyone
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right here! I think being good for me —if I’m SUPER HONEST—is a form of perfectionism. And what @Booble said— if people judge me as not being good, that would kill me. Even the FEAR of people judging me as not good kills me. And it runs through my head constantly. I picture what people are saying about me and I get depressed, based on all my own imagination of it. I’m guilty and afraid all the time. EXCEPT lately, while here in this program. I’m changing that dynamic. I’m fighting this in my head. I actually duke it out with this critic. I say, “prove it! You’re wrong. Shut up!” Then I tell myself I don’t have to be perfect. And I don’t have to be good. And IF anybody judges me, what do I care? But right now, that’s a lot of talk. I’m not actually totally walking the walk. (Ha! Literally!)
 
Booble said:
If they don't love me, they might abandon me.
This must be something built into us for survival.
And now it makes us a little crazy. Hard on ourselves. Hidden rage when we are not the best and therefore risk abandonment.
Click to expand...
Bingo! I think this is 100 percent it! And it’s also possible that if our parents didn’t give us the attention we needed to grow and develop, we have a hole of desperate need there. And it feels like abandonment.(To @Booble ’s comment above)
 
ValkyrKai said:
I will obsess about how someone felt about some throw away comment I made.
The way my brain will skip from “we’re fine” to “they’re mad” to “they hate me” in milliseconds is pretty astounding
Click to expand...
Oh my gosh, Eli! I do this exact same thing! I heard once recently, what would you tell a close friend if they told you they did this? Tell that to yourself.
 
JanAtheCPA said:
Now there's a "should" if I ever saw one!

Notice how and when you feel the need to apologize when it's totally unnecessary. That would be a healthy mindful practice.
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Ooof caught red handed! Thank you for pointing that out @JanAtheCPA !

I do apologize a lot when it might not be necessary. I think that also stems from a need to be liked and a need to hear the reassurance.
 
Booble said:
Not off topic at all.
And no worries, we like you! :) :) :)

If preventing abandonment is "built-in" evolutionarily, which I think it is, we have to ask the question why does it cause more intensity for some of us compared with others. I think that part is probably a blend of genetic/biology AND our parents and siblings actions toward us AND any events that happened during our childhood related to possible abandonment. Events could be minor or major -- a joke made by parent when you were a small child, getting lost, a divorce, a parent's health crisis or death.
Click to expand...

I know that I definitely experienced a lot of othering by my siblings and other kids at school who thought I was weird or different and not understanding why they treated me differently was definitely a scary feeling.
 
ValkyrKai said:
I know that I definitely experienced a lot of othering by my siblings and other kids at school who thought I was weird or different and not understanding why they treated me differently was definitely a scary feeling.
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Don't despair. I've always liked the people who others thought weird or different. It's boring to be the same as everyone else!
It's really hard for people like us to grasp that some people aren't going to like us. Heavens! How can they not like us? We are so great! :) :)
 
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