The Presence Process - Share Experiences & Ask Questions

[BrianC]

Thx yb44 and yes you are right I have slowed down and I am letting myself heal not forcing myself anymore….the anxiety attack came on from starting to go threw a separation with my wife ( long time coming) but we are both fine with that.. ( maybe I am not somewhere in my mind) never the less it did bring this on and I could not control it.

What's great is that in The Presence Process, we realize these anxiety attacks that arise are merely old emotions from childhood being triggered. Instead of mistaking a wife leaving as the cause for the anxiety, we see something like a child yerning for a mother who left or wasn't emotionally available. We understand that we're integrating emotional signatures of aspects of our childhood that wanted unconditional love from their parents, and never learned how to give it to themselves. We become the parents to them, and so we give those aspects of ourself unconditional love by accepting them fully without judgment and being with them without condition. Those parts of our heart eventually know we love and accept them completely, at which point they integrate.

That's when we're able to move on with our life without trying to fill that void of unconditional love in that part of our heart. It's finally full.

We don't need to fill it with a spouse anymore, using them for our happiness (our pseudo-unconditional-love). We get to feel whole and complete within ourselves. We are responsible for our joy that's always present and no longer hand that responsibility to other people such as a spouse or friend. That was never their responsibility, even if they took it on. Now, we can appreciate them for who they are and not interfere by trying to change them, get something from them, or even wishing they were different. That's really freeing when we get that deep down in our heart. Great things come out of this process of maturing.

 

[Bogdan]

Thanks Brian for all your replies. For a moment I thought you took a break from the forum and if you were to come back you wouldn't reply to all those posts. At the moment I am going through integrating the feelings you were mentioning in your latests replies. My girlfriend became very cold, to the point where she doesn't talk to me. Funny enough she brought a guy one evening and they watched a film together....exactly what we used to do together. It's funny...extremely funny (and devastating) seeing how I become abandoned again for another guy. All I can do now is to avoid her, the same way she ignores me. In fact, I cannot face her at all, because when I see her I feel extremely vulnerable and don't really know what to say to her...it feels like there is no connection between us and I also feel weak...so whats the point of saying anything. I cannot just go in the kitchen and pretend she is not there, the same way she does. I tried to talk to her and she said she feels afraid to be abandoned... funny. However she behaves as if she already abandoned me.... I tried to show her my affection but she rejects it. In the end how much affection can I give while being rejected?. She never opens a conversation and I never know what to tell her anymore, so I stopped. Now we just pass next to each other in the house without words... we both look sad ofc. So it's just awkward silence... I choose to isolate in my room and avoid this. I am not ready to deal with it in the physical because I feel so vulnerable and abandoned whenever she is around and probably anything I would do would be a reaction to that feeling, since it's always in my awareness as something extremely uncomfortable. It's like trying to connect with someone while also wanting to pee badly)

This is great for TPP of course. The voice in my head blames her all the time, especially when I connect my breathing....sometimes I get lost in this hate I create, judging her behaviour and her arrogance (she changed from showing an interest in me to being ignorant... in just one-two months---funny how fast). So even though we live in the same flat we became complete strangers. What I appreciate in all this is that the transition from 'love' to hate happened in only two months (compared to my previous two years relationship that ended pretty much in the same way). It's like a shortcut into my unintegrated definition of love.

I remember the first time I felt that resonance....it felt worse than anything I ever experienced...now it gets easier and easier to deal with it because I began TPP. The only problem I have atm is that I cannot 'confront' her. Can't stay next to her and I have to watch all this because we live in the same flat. So I just stay in my room, suffering and feeling. I can't do anything else because the feeling is strong. I can't work and my finances are getting low...Can't concentrate on anything else...What would you do differently in this situation? For example she always turns the heating off and I am always cold, which makes it even harder to work on my projects.. I have to go and turn it back on ...then she comes back and turns it off again. I tried to tell her I become cold faster than her (I like the metaphor about being cold here) and that I have different needs)... Should I move out? I lost my sense of humour since I moved in with her....no fun at all lol.

I know this is just a memory, but some practical facts such as heating are quite hard to deal with...). I remember one of the rules of connecting breathing is to feel comfortably warm and wear comfortable clothes.

Yet...I want her...this is the fun part!!

 

[BrianC]

At the moment I am going through integrating the feelings you were mentioning in your latests replies. My girlfriend became very cold, to the point where she doesn't talk to me. Funny enough she brought a guy one evening and they watched a film together....exactly what we used to do together. It's funny...extremely funny (and devastating) seeing how I become abandoned again for another guy. All I can do now is to avoid her, the same way she ignores me.

Bogdan,

Wow, all of this sounds awesome and incredibly difficult at the same time. I feel for you.

It seems you're in just the right spot to make very quick progress in TPP regarding your unconscious definition of love. When a girlfriend and boyfriend move in together, that tends to trigger the wife or husband roles learned from their parents. Your girlfriend could become like her mother and respond to you like her mother did her father. Or sometimes, the father-daughter role could be triggered, which would cause her to react to you like she reacted to her father when she was little. Could be either or both or neither. On top of that, you may unconsciously be seeing her as your mother and you as her son, so you may be reverting in some ways. Or you may be unconsciously acting like your father and relating to her as he did to your mother. To add more complexity to the issue, she's reflecting your own issues back to you, as you're well aware of. But then, to complicate it more, you're reflecting her issues back to her, too. That's a hell of a complicated situation.

What I like about TPP is that we don't have to think about any of that or try to figure any of it out. All we have to do is feel what we feel, unconditionally. When the emotions integrate, there won't be any triggering anymore, and we'll usually get insight about where the behaviors came from. There won't be any guess work when integration comes. It'll be a firm heart-knowing that makes perfect sense to you. You're going to make some great progress. It may take only one PP or maybe two or three, but eventually, it'll fully work its way out. I've gotten a little more insight into my unconscious definition of love during each PP I've done. It's like I'm building a puzzle one piece at a time. I had a lot of it figured out in the past, but it didn't make an impact on me. As I do TPP and get the heart-knowing through integration, it makes an impact that changes me.

It sounds like you had some difficult emotional signatures passed down to you and now you're experiencing the intense control they can exert on you. It's awesome to know that they'll integrate at some point and a huge weight will lift! If the whole mother/father dynamics are kicking in with you two, I'd take TPP's advice, which says, "So why don't we start by treating our parents with the unconditional love we wanted as a child?" (paraphrasing).

This is going to sound weird, but if I were in that situation, I would try (I stress "try") to give her all the space she needs and be as unconditionally loving with her as possible, never trying to show physical affection nor trying to get anything from her at all. If she's in mother-mode, and her father was very controlling and took from her mother but gave no love in return, she may be pulling back from you for that reason. She'll need space and unconditional acceptance and you won't want to take anything from her, if possible, especially in an affectionate way. If you're reflecting a parent for her, she's wanting unconditional love in return that she didn't get as a child. In fact, no matter what you're reflecting to her, she's wanting unconditional love. But it's practically impossible to exercise unconditional love without experiencing it within our self first. As you go through TPP, you'll sink more into unconditional love, and that'll allow you to exercise it in interactions with her. It'll feel unnatural at first, but eventually it will come very authentically to you.

If I saw that I was depending on her, I might choose to move out and assert my independence for my own sake. This is usually the healthiest response for people who are not very independent. However, some people need to develop that inner strength first before they move out on their own. We all have to figure that out for our self. If her influence caused me to be unable to work and make a living, I'd have to move out. However, I'd need to make sure that I wasn't just blaming her influence for issues I could take care of myself. Here's an example: She likes the air cold, you like it hot. My wife and I are similar. So if she's wanting it cold, I'll put on more layers of clothing so I stay warm. If I'm wanting it cold, she'll cover up with a blanket. If she's wanting it hot, I wear lighter, cooler clothing. And there's no resentment from either of us toward the other. She and I are very good at compromising, and we're also good at adjusting to the other person's current needs. That's how unconditional love and acceptance work in those situations. How do you think your girlfriend would respond if you started wearing warmer clothing and stop turning the air up? And what if you said in a loving way, "Hey, whatever temperature you want is okay with me. I'll adjust. I just want to make sure you're comfortable."? That's an example of a response, as opposed to a reaction. It won't solve the problem, necessarily, but it's a move in the right direction.

I've taken this approach with my 3-yr-old son, Eli. I would do my best to respond to him in what I decided was an unconditionally loving way. I didn't always get it perfect or do it really well, but I did my best. And those emotional signatures began to integrate, one by one. As they did, it got easier and more natural to respond to him in an unconditionally-loving way. The way I respond to him now doesn't look quite the same as it did when I was just doing the best I could to respond with unconditional love. It looks more natural now, and I easily adjust to each separate situation. I learn different techniques from others, sometimes, and try them out. If they feel right or they work well, I'll use them. If they don't feel right or don't work, I won't use them anymore.

Once a person starts TPP, triggers happen more frequently. They're tough, but they're very useful. It sounds like you're taking them in stride, so that's good. Whatever happens is valid, so you can't go wrong. I just feel things out and really think about my part in everything that I do. I try not to react, but when I do, I look back and say, "Okay, why did I react that way and how can I react differently next time?" It may take me weeks or months to start reacting differently, because the emotional signatures driving those reactions may take that long to integrate. But the act of not reacting really helps accelerate the integration. We may stop reacting once in a while, at first, but then in a few months, we might not be reacting at all anymore. We might be responding in a very healthy, authentic way. The fact that you're feeling extremely vulnerable is excellent. Great job! Keep in mind that, up to this point, you've been trying to get love and happiness from her (you said, "I want her.") So it's possible she's unconsciously reflecting your issue back to you by refusing to be your source of love and happiness anymore. That's a very good thing, especially since you're realizing now that your Presence is your source of love and joy. She's this awesome messenger for you, and you're getting a major emotional message inside as a result. It's probably really difficult for you to be thankful right now, but it should get easier and more natural, eventually. You're in process right now, so things don't make sense and they're not fully integrated yet. Three weeks after your 10 weeks is over, things are usually fully integrated by then and you start feeling better. Things make more sense. And after you do another PP, it'll be even better. It's really cool how it works.

You're doing great! Thanks so much for sharing!

 

[Dom]

Hi, just joined the forum. Was looking for a place to discuss TPP journey. The only place I've discovered, do others exist? It seems a bit rebellious to do so, since MB discourages 'support groups'. I'm on my second go round on week 8. Unfortunately I can't do the bath sessions (no hot water), so I do some physical warm-up/letgo before the breathing. I like it because it's a self-facilitation process that keeps me focused and committed and makes sense to me. Although I noticed today there were parts of the text in week 8, that I didn't resonate with, around 'arrogance' and 'forgiveness', although essentially the message is always the same...'feel it to heal it'. I'm learning to contain my emotions more, and work quietly and internally with them, and to notice the difference between a reaction and a response. Not easy and a roller coaster ride.

 

[BrianC]

Hi, just joined the forum. Was looking for a place to discuss TPP journey. The only place I've discovered, do others exist? It seems a bit rebellious to do so, since MB discourages 'support groups'. I'm on my second go round on week 8. Unfortunately I can't do the bath sessions (no hot water), so I do some physical warm-up/letgo before the breathing. I like it because it's a self-facilitation process that keeps me focused and committed and makes sense to me. Although I noticed today there were parts of the text in week 8, that I didn't resonate with, around 'arrogance' and 'forgiveness', although essentially the message is always the same...'feel it to heal it'. I'm learning to contain my emotions more, and work quietly and internally with them, and to notice the difference between a reaction and a response. Not easy and a roller coaster ride.

Hi, Dom! Great to have you here. Can't wait to hear about your experiences with TPP.

MB does discourage "support groups," but he encourages us going through the journey together. I wouldn't call what we have here a "support group." In support groups, people are there to be supported and to support others. Here, we're just sharing our experiences. If we have questions, we just ask and see what answers we get. I was unsure if I was doing a couple of things correctly when I first started TPP. I asked a couple of old TPPers who were able to give their input. That helped me answer those questions. What I like about this group is that everyone seems like they take responsibility for their own PP and their own life, so no one needs support. Makes for a great little group.

Would you mind clarifying what didn't resonate with you about arrogance and forgiveness? As you're experiencing, those concepts aren't always so cut and dry, so it's not always easy to truly grasp them. I noticed that I'm usually in a state of perpetual understanding and acceptance now, which means people almost never offend me. And if I'm never offended, why would I need to forgive anyone? When I accept everything as exactly what's supposed to happen to help me grow and mature, how can I be upset with that? So, it's like being in a state of perpetual forgiveness. Although, one might more accurately call it a state of unconditional love, acceptance, and understanding.

 

[Dom]

Hi Brian, he encourages us to go through the journey together? I didn't see that. I get his point about "support" groups and what you say. In any case I would always defer to my own guidance. Yes I like you're take on 'forgiveness' as unconditional love. Actually I find the whole concept of 'forgiveness' a bit irrelevant, and preferred the alternative conscious response in the first edition of TPP, "I take responsibility for my inner peace." When I integrate a negative charge on someone, the anger or pain, just dissolves, there's nothing to forgive. But until that happens, it's there to be felt. Trying to understand that my parents were just victims of their own imprinting and doing the best they could, for example, doesn't cut it. That understanding may emerge after the inner work, but to my 'inner child', the feelings of abuse, abandonment, rage etc are real and not to be smoothed over with adult reasoning, otherwise it's 'sugar on shit' as they say. Just allowing those feelings and memories up is a big thing. When/if the charge integrates, understanding and insight follow, what is there then to forgive? Seems almost a mental newagey christian concept. Also 'arrogance' is not a word I'm comfortable with here. He seems to be judging judgement by calling it 'arrogance', "Judgement on all levels is arrogance". The point about judgements is to try and unpack them rather than veto them or call them a 'virus'. To me this is one of his most 'preachy' chapters along the lines of "forgive them father , for they know not what they do". It's great if you get to that point, but it's a journey, nothing you can force with do-gooder resolutions. Having said that, most of it I can agree with. Just my take.

 

[BrianC]

(I just want to apologize up front for such a long post. Hopefully, you don't feel obligated to read the entire thing if you don't want to. Some might find the information useful, and some might not. Also, I'm not debating anything in this post--just sharing information.)

I think he nails arrogance, but I only believe that because I understand, and have experienced, exactly what he's talking about. In the East, when someone goes to a mystic and asks, "What is love?" or "What is truth?" the answer is always, "Drop all of your judgments and you will know." Or "Drop all of your opinions and you will know." When I first heard that, I didn't truly comprehend it in my heart. Heck, I couldn't comprehend it, because I hadn't experienced it yet. Also, I'd relied on judging my entire life, so I had a hard time conceptualizing what it meant to not judge anything and instead go strictly on intuition. However, I did understand why a mystic would say that. Any judgments we have inside against ourself are our measure of how we judge others. And if they do something that we judge to be "wrong," then we've condemned them at a subconscious level and we see ourself as better than them (which is always what judgment is about). They say happy people don't compare themselves to others, because there's no reason to--they're happy with theirself already. In other words, they've dropped all of their judgments about themselves, which allows them to love themself completely. Therefore, they finally know what love truly is. And they can then love others with that same unconditional love. Hence Jesus' saying, "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "Judge not or you will be judged." Judgments are conditions. Only without them can we be unconditional with our love. Also, when we love our self completely, we know truth through inner knowing.

You mentioned Jesus statement, "Forgive them father for they know not what they do," and said that was preachy. I can understand how that may sound that way if someone's viewing it through the eyes of religion. However, allow me to frame it differently. You might see it in a different light. The state we achieve through doing TPP is called "Awareness", or being "Awake". We become aware of the emotional root of our actions and we begin taking action to resolve the emotional root so we're no longer being controlled by it. Before we enter TPP, we are in a state called "Asleep", or "Unaware". In other words, we are not aware of why we do what we do. We're "asleep" to reality and we're lost in the dream state called "time" or "the world." We're slaves to it. It basically takes away our free will to act responsibly. So we see the two states of people in the world: Awake or Asleep, Aware or Unaware.

Now, keep in mind that Abraham was Eastern philosophy (a fact very few people are aware of unless they've done a lot of research into Abraham and the Ancient Hebrews). Jesus was speaking in the old Ancient Hebrew Eastern ways. He said, "Forgive them Father, for they're unaware of what they're doing." He was basically saying, "They're all asleep, controlled by their dream state. They have no idea what they're really doing or why they're doing it." God knows this, of course, and doesn't even need to forgive them, because He is unconditional love, and Jesus was that unconditional love in human form. Jesus said it, in my opinion, for the Jews to hear it so that they would realized that God wasn't upset with them, which would allow them to release their shame. One might say that they had built their own shame, and if they were willing to hear what Jesus was saying, they would have accepted that God loved them regardless of whether they followed the Law or not. Heck, the "Law" means "the Teachings." And the even deeper Ancient Hebrew definition is, "The mark one is shooting for." The Teachings were designed to point to God's character. And they were for that society at that time, and for the purpose of helping govern them. That's all. They were never meant to be used as character judgments against a person or something to live up to. But the Jews judged themselves and others by the Law. But Jesus didn't start a religion (His followers did eventually, way down the line). He came to get rid of religion. He came to crush shame. Once you eliminate shame, religion has no place, because religion is a set of rules, actions, and beliefs to help a person suppress their shame (to feel better about their self--which is exactly what judgment is for at its root). Jesus took us back to the Garden, before shame. He brought us to the human level. In the Garden, there was no religion--only relationship. (Whether the Garden of Eden was real or figurative, I don't know.)

The only people Jesus spoke out against were the religion (the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Pagans). He had no problem with non-believers and regular, everyday people who were dysfunctional ("sinners" in religious terminology). Those are the people He hung out with. So, there wasn't an ounce of arrogance in Him or His statement, in my opinion. I think He was just showing that God never judged mankind. He even said that judgment was handed over to Him and He then says He didn't come to judge us. And besides, judgment, to an Ancient Hebrew, means "to find a problem and remove it to help the person, or society, grow." It's a good thing--painful, but good. Judgment Day for the world means God's going to show us our issues to help us heal them. (I don't blame anyone if they stop reading this incredibly long post right now, but I'm going to continue anyway and show how hell is actually to help us, not hurt us, and it is not eternal, but rather, it is in the location of "eternity," meaning the "eternal present moment." "Eternal judgment" was just a saying they used, and it didn't meant "judgment forever." It means "pruning in the location of eternity," and pruning is to help people grow, not hurt them.)

That's what hell does. Hell is only for people in resistance to God. Once the emotional pain of hell breaks a person's pride, they have no problem asking God for help. Then, He takes them through what everyone else goes through in heaven, which is emotional maturing (which is what we're using TPP to do). He does it extremely quickly, too, all at once. We know this from after-death experiences (also called near-death experiences). A third of everyone who dies and is resuscitated has an "after-death" experience while they're dead. They end up in heaven with God, and it always goes the same. He shows them all of the situations in their life where they hurt others. But this time, they feel the other person's pain they caused. This immediately humbles the person and they usually feel shame. One guy said, "That was so wrong of me. It was so bad." God's response was, "No, no, not good or bad, not right or wrong. Just a lesson learned." Immediately, they guy's shame dropped and he felt amazing love and peace wash over him. He had an integration is what happened. These people who experience this say that they relive all of those situations in their life at the same time, extremely quickly. And when they're done, they have this incredible peace and maturity about them. When they're resuscitated, they're changed people. If a person is an atheist, they end up in "hell," but not the fiery hell we often think of. The Bible uses figurative language. Back then, the Refiner's Fire was what they called the fire of a gold refiner. The smelter would melt the gold and its impurities would float to the top. He'd scoop them off, and the gold was then purified. So that's why hell is metaphorically referred to by fire. It refines people by bringing out the emotional signatures they've suppressed all their life.

The terms in the Bible "eternal judgment" and "eternal judgment" are greatly misunderstood. The Church Fathers, who spoke in and wrote in Koine Greek, just like the New Testament was written in, use those terms. They'll mention eternal judgment or eternal punishment, then they'll say it's temporary until the person is purified, at which point they go to heaven to be with God and everyone else. Anytime hell is described as "punishment," the Koine Greek word used is a "correctional" punishment. They have a different word they use that means vengeful punishment, and it's only used once to describe what Paul did to the Christians when he persecuted them. And punishment, again, is seen as pruning to help growth, as opposed to harming a person. Tons of verses in the Old Testament, and the New Testament even, say that God will restore all things and all people. Everyone. Translation is impossible to get 100% correct.

Religion and translations really messed things up over the years. Most Christians back in the first few centuries knew God would restore everyone eventually, but the government and religion got in bed together and changed that doctrine, because some people believed differently. Augustine swayed a lot of people with his beliefs, especially once he mingled with the government and their agenda.

While the Bible may seem judgmental, it's just very misunderstood and badly translated. Did you know "command" actually means "a sign pointing the way"? That word literally means landmark for direction. If you were to come up on a road sign in the Old West, it would be an arrow with a city name on it, like Dallas. That's what the word "command" means. Does the sign "command" you to go to Dallas? No. It just shows you the way if you want to go that way. God never told us to live up to those actions. He was just saying, "These actions are how you will conduct yourself when you mature into your true child-of-God self." Any of the religious books out there point the way, but usually religion has gotten a hold of them and misinterpreted them. lol

I like TPP because it sees past religion and removes it from the picture altogether. It realizes that we're all just humans, and that religion is a convention we create in our mind which causes a perceived separation from others. To me, I don't see religions anymore. I just see people--fellow human beings. I had to drop my judgment about religions before I could truly accept people as they are and love them unconditionally. I think Jesus was using the term "forgive" because it was a term the Jews understood. Also, "fore give" means to give in advance. Jesus was helping people have life (or eternal life, meaning life connected with the eternal present moment) before they'd fully matured into it. He did this by dropping their shame. I like how MB says love is "for giving." Jesus was love, and He fore gave His love to us--God's love. That's assuming He was God. I think He probably was, but it's difficult to know for sure. Either way, I don't think there was any arrogance in what He said or did. But hey, that's just gut instinct on this. My intuition could be wrong. Maybe you're exactly right.

 

[Dom]

Thanks Brian, you've thought about this deeply, and I don't disagree with anything you say. It makes sense to me. Let me say I think TPP is brilliant and powerful stuff, and if at times I don't get something, I may get it later on. Each time I read it, there's a new layer of depth and meaning, or I grok something I didn't before. Perhaps though if I only agree or grok 90% of MB's writings, not just TPP, that's good enough for me. Take what's useful and leave the rest.
MB does talk about Jesus at times, especially in his youtube videos, and gives modern interpretations on what he 'really' meant. That's fine. I know a lot of people feel the need to update the bible, as to what was really meant. Personally I don't know, who what or when, anything was said, what is fact or what is fiction. It's not on youtube! But it has powerful symbolic meaning to a lot of people. I'm not that bothered with religion or the past or God or Jesus, just my own direct experience really.
I think my earlier point is about working through stuff, rather than being in a rush to prematurely forgive. The wounded child rightly feels, fear anger grief, over being abused and hurt, depending on levels of severity and reaction. As this gets worked through there is a let-go or release, the charge is dissolved, and the adult understanding, that parents were acting out their conditioning kicks in. Were they doing the 'best'? I don't know. They were doing what they were doing, most of it unconscious probably. Does a child have a right to safety and love? I would say so, in the sense of human rights. But of course that's not what happens. Still if parenting improved (which it is) and emotional intelligence restored, most of the world's problems would get sorted, I fantasize. Hope springs...
Judgements? Sure I have many judgements every day. Basically it's resistance to what's happening, that things should be different to what they are. In terms of people, it may be masking my anger or a disowned self, a shadow part, that I'm not able to see yet. Ultimately, in presence, everything is happening in 'me', there's only one Being here, being me and you, but getting there is a journey, and it's very important to have boundaries against abuse, which is saying 'yes' to yourself, and taking action and being assertive if you need to, which is part of the response. So I don't think much in terms of 'arrogance' and 'humility', these words carry religious resonances for me, it's more about understanding and awareness and love. But praying for help (asking presence) as he says at the end of this chapter makes sense, for the heart to be lifted of it's burden and come to peace, in whatever way that needs to happen.
Seems you're a bit of a biblical scholar, and God and Jesus have importance for you. Some of this may be cultural, US vs UK. In any case, religious beliefs aside, it's all about love.

 

[Dom]

Thanks Bogdan for your post. Most of my relationships left me with the same taste of abandonment, rejection and betrayal. Interesting isn't it? Hell to go through. Doing TPP puts it into clearer perspective, and I feel less needy and more comfortable in my 'aloneness', than I ever have been I think. Brian's advice is very apropos.

 

[Bogdan]

haha wonderful! I just put on another layer... it's warmer but still uncomfortable. However it feels great to know I could give in and let her decide when the heating is on (so far.. never haha). I would suffer from cold (I always had this issue as I have a poor blood circulation... maybe I need to integrate this as well), but at least I wouldn't be mad at her anymore if I take the decision to let her opinion be a rule in the house in our both interest). For her it's not about the cold actually, it's about expenses...she is very strict with spending money on heating. It's also funny to see how much energy she wastes in other ways (boiling more water than she needs, leaving lights on, long showers). I suppose I was mad at her because I saw her behaviour as irresponsible and based on a mentality of lack (which I also have lol)... I remember MB saying something about not letting other's unconsiousness step over us. The reason I kept turning on the heating was because I felt she doesn't respect my needs as she could always turn the heating off in her room...in fact the heating is turned on only in my room. Ahhh...I'm going into analysis again...

Anyway, thanks guys for your replies. I think I am ready to give in...I will let her be. I can't move out at the moment since we signed a 1 year lease for the flat). But hopefully this time will be enough to integrate my feelings. It's good that she triggers me, so it goes faster I suppose. The hardest part will be to see her with another guy in our flat...Wish me luck.

Dom, I am on the same page as you are...I also found many contradictions and nonsense in MB's book...Unfortunately I have nothing better at the moment. I tried almost everything and this is my best try so far. It makes sense in many ways, but at the same time I am afraid it's just yet another trap. Maybe the whole book is an EGO trip. MB sounds arrogant sometimes and he also supports a product (RNA drops) that costs 100 bucks. Totally in doubt sometimes...but I know that without a leap of faith I can't get anywhere. Placebo works. Maybe the book is just a story, but believing in it makes it true....Matrix.

 

[BrianC]

Thanks Brian, you've thought about this deeply, and I don't disagree with anything you say. It makes sense to me. Let me say I think TPP is brilliant and powerful stuff, and if at times I don't get something, I may get it later on. Each time I read it, there's a new layer of depth and meaning, or I grok something I didn't before. Perhaps though if I only agree or grok 90% of MB's writings, not just TPP, that's good enough for me. Take what's useful and leave the rest.

You just summed it up nicely. The more you go through TPP, the more first-hand experience and insight you get. Now that I'm about to finish my third time through TPP, I understand this stuff a whole lot better. Also, I did a lot of emotional work before TPP, and I was already well-versed in theology, philosophy, and worldviews. I've always enjoyed those things. Oddly enough, intellect, knowledge, and studying things is one of my behaviors that I use to suppress fear. It makes me feel safer. I've been slowly coming out of that over the past few years, thankfully. But in this third PP, I'm really having to address it head-on, because my intention for this PP is to integrate my insecurity. That's asking a lot. lol

Check out Being Our Companion by Michael Brown. To find it, I had to go to Google and search for: being our companion the presence portal. That's the only way I know of to get to the book. You can't find it on his website, but it's there if you use Google to find it. lol Strange. Just out of curiosity, I followed some breadcrumb clues to find it.

Like you, and Recovery, said, "Take what you want and leave the rest." If I don't understand something, I just leave it be. Maybe I'll experience it later and come to a similar conclusion, or maybe a different conclusion. You have a great attitude for this type of thing. It'll take you far.

I think my earlier point is about working through stuff, rather than being in a rush to prematurely forgive. The wounded child rightly feels fear, anger, and grief over being abused and hurt, depending on levels of severity and reaction. As this gets worked through there is a let-go or release, the charge is dissolved, and the adult understanding that parents were acting out their conditioning kicks in. Were they doing the 'best'? I don't know. They were doing what they were doing, most of it unconscious probably. Does a child have a right to safety and love? I would say so, in the sense of human rights. But of course that's not what happens. Still if parenting improved (which it is) and emotional intelligence restored, most of the world's problems would get sorted, I fantasize. Hope springs...

I figured that's where you were coming from. And you're right, the heart (child) feels what it feels, and rightly so. Reasoning away the feelings just suppresses them, so someone can't just tell us to "forgive." From what I understand, MB is trying to appeal to our victim/victor mindset, which is how our little child thinks. If I'm stuck in a victim mindset, I'll need to forgive eventually to move on. That may require sitting in the emotions for a while, but eventually, forgiveness will come. For me, forgiveness meant that I no longer blamed myself for my problems, and I blamed no one else either. I understood that the emotional signatures were passed down to me to help me. Eventually, as I did more PPs, my heart understood that truth. So, like you said, when you get further into it, you'll have more experiences with this stuff and you might come to a similar conclusion. Who knows. That's the fun of it. We never know what the hell we're getting ourselves into when we start this work. lol I think real forgiveness is actually just having no need to place blame, because everything is for our good.

Judgements? Sure I have many judgements every day. Basically it's resistance to what's happening, that things should be different to what they are. In terms of people, it may be masking my anger or a disowned self, a shadow part, that I'm not able to see yet. Ultimately, in presence, everything is happening in 'me', there's only one Being here, being me and you, but getting there is a journey, and it's very important to have boundaries against abuse, which is saying 'yes' to yourself, and taking action and being assertive if you need to, which is part of the response. So I don't think much in terms of 'arrogance' and 'humility', these words carry religious resonances for me, it's more about understanding and awareness and love. But praying for help (asking presence) as he says at the end of this chapter makes sense, for the heart to be lifted of it's burden and come to peace, in whatever way that needs to happen.

Yeah, what you just said about understanding, awareness, and love is what MB expresses as our authentic state of being. Arrogance and humility, like you said, are religious terms. Just the fact that they're so abstract makes them hard to understand. One might experience humility firsthand, but call it something else and understand it differently than a religious person.

Seems you're a bit of a biblical scholar, and God and Jesus have importance for you. Some of this may be cultural, US vs UK. In any case, religious beliefs aside, it's all about love.

Yeah, once again, you nailed it. You have great insight. Cultural differences make a big impact on how we see the world. Whether we were abused physically, verbally, or emotionally as a child has a big part in that, too. As for me, I couldn't care less what a person believes. People are people to me, nothing more. Who cares what they believe? I used to place huge importance on God and Jesus because, deep down, if I'm being honest, my immature heart wanted them/him to make me happy. But I eventually realized that God's given us all freedom to live as we see fit and learn through that experience. Yes, God has an important function. But I don't hold Him in some mystical light anymore. He's not wanting me to bow down to Him like some king. He's just this incredibly loving, friendly person who orchestrates everything for our good, whether we realize it or not. Part of me is still upset with religion, because it blames Christianity for its unhappiness. I'll be glad when that part of me gets peace and integrates.

 

[BrianC]

Dom, I am on the same page as you are...I also found many contradictions and nonsense in MB's book...Unfortunately I have nothing better at the moment. I tried almost everything and this is my best try so far. It makes sense in many ways, but at the same time I am afraid it's just yet another trap. Maybe the whole book is an EGO trip. MB sounds arrogant sometimes and he also supports a product (RNA drops) that costs 100 bucks. Totally in doubt sometimes...but I know that without a leap of faith I can't get anywhere. Placebo works. Maybe the book is just a story, but believing in it makes it true....Matrix.

It's interesting to see the different impressions people get of TPP.

I didn't see any contradictions in it. But that's just me. Everyone sees the world a little differently, which really colors the way we understand what we read. It never ceases to amaze me at how a person can learn just a few little things that change the way they see the world, causing it to make a lot more sense. Like Dom said, as we get further into TPP, things start to become more clear and we begin to understand things we didn't before. Our worldview completely changes how we see something, as opposed to how others might see that same thing, and as opposed to how the author may have intended it. Easterners get a little different message from the Bible than Westerners. lol Funny how that works.

I've had the same thought about MB sounding arrogant at times. I always have to step back and tell myself, "Just remember that you don't know what he meant by that, and you don't know what his experience is with that area of life. Maybe when you experience it, you'll come to exactly the same conclusion and be able to say exactly the same thing without an ounce of arrogance." That keeps me from giving in to the judgmental part of me. lol

Now that I read about the RNA Drops, I'm intrigued. I know a lot about health food and supplements and my doctor can test any supplement I bring to him. I'll have to order one of these and have him test it, then see if it works on me. I'd be curious to see if these drops could correct the genetic issue I have that causes my body not to utilize protein to build muscle properly. I read MB's article about the drops. He doesn't make any money on them. Sounds like he just really had a good experience with them and is sharing that joy and opportunity with others. Imagine if you did TPP, and you really liked it, but when you came across others who could desperately use it, you don't tell them about it. MB's probably just putting the info out there for others who might need it. I can't really find a way to judge his character by that article.

There used to be a child-like part of my heart that longed for a father figure to show him how to take away his pain and be "perfect." And as soon as that father figure didn't live up to this imaginary, impossible standard of "perfect," that part of me would lose faith in him and look for someone or something else to believe in. I eventually figured out that it's my responsibility to find my joy within myself, and I don't need a father figure to do that. I've already experienced that TPP works, and I've also seen how integration works so wonderfully for people with Multiple Personality Disorder, so MB's character isn't really a factor. But isn't it weird how our child-like heart uses that perfect standard to try and help us, but it ends up sabotaging us instead? The heart's a funny thing...

 

[Bogdan]

Can you still get a trial of RNA drops? It seems that you can't anymore... I would want to try them too at some point.

 

[BrianC]

Nah, you can't get the trial anymore. I just called the owner and he said they ran out of trial bottles in July. I went ahead and ordered the RNA Drops and Magnesium on autoship. Buying two items gets free shipping in the USA, and cheaper shipping internationally. Autoship gets a discounted price. I'll cancel the autoship before it ships next month. Even if I keep taking it, I like to order it when I'm ready to order it rather than depending on autoship.

 

[Dom]

Yes I enjoyed "Being Our Companion" and all the other free stuff on his website. There's also TPP journal, based on the TPP 2005 edition. Seems like MB doesn't stand still for long and goes on to new projects, including music, writing fiction and exploring Ayahuasca.
Perhaps he comes across as a little arrogant or dogmatic at times. When replying to people in the forum, he seemed a little sharp occasionally but some might interpret that as zen-like! His language too is often idiosyncratic. The phonetic puns feel laboured sometimes and TPP jargon can appear opaque and perplexing to me, when plainer english might do. None of it really matters though. It still blows me away.
Victim consciousness is the flip side of blaming someone for how I am feeling. Of course a child is helpless and vulnerable and dependent on it's carers for survival, so feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, trauma, shock, frozenness, confusion etc have to be embraced, so that movement can happen. We have to be careful not to develop new enlightened "shoulds"... "you should forgive your parents because they were doing their best"... "you shouldn't blame other people" (but you do)... "you should understand that being terrorised as a child is your karma or a growth opportunity", (but you don't). So all the enlightened wisdom has to grow organically out of the compost of your own experience, second-hand won't do. In this way TPP asks you to check it out for yourself. I mostly really liked MB because he appeared to have integrity, and didn't go down the easy route of commercialising TPP into endless retreats and tours ( like Eckhart Tolle for example), but rather gave you the formula in a self-facilitating format to get on with by yourself, for yourself. It's up to you, what you put into it.
Here's a link to MB raving about RNA drops on YT. He begins talking at 12.45 min. in this radio interview.

He also wrote another book after TPP called "The Retrieval of Adam Man", but I can't find it on amazon.

 

[BruceMC]

I'd be interested to hear what Stephen Barrett, M.D. has to say about RnA Drops on Quackwatch? Bet it's not very complimentary. Wait and see.

 

[BrianC]

Yes I enjoyed "Being Our Companion" and all the other free stuff on his website. There's also TPP journal, based on the TPP 2005 edition. Seems like MB doesn't stand still for long and goes on to new projects, including music, writing fiction and exploring Ayahuasca.
Perhaps he comes across as a little arrogant or dogmatic at times. When replying to people in the forum, he seemed a little sharp occasionally but some might interpret that as zen-like! His language too is often idiosyncratic. The phonetic puns feel laboured sometimes and TPP jargon can appear opaque and perplexing to me, when plainer english might do. None of it really matters though. It still blows me away.
Victim consciousness is the flip side of blaming someone for how I am feeling. Of course a child is helpless and vulnerable and dependent on it's carers for survival, so feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, trauma, shock, frozenness, confusion etc have to be embraced, so that movement can happen. We have to be careful not to develop new enlightened "shoulds"... "you should forgive your parents because they were doing their best"... "you shouldn't blame other people" (but you do)... "you should understand that being terrorised as a child is your karma or a growth opportunity", (but you don't). So all the enlightened wisdom has to grow organically out of the compost of your own experience, second-hand won't do. In this way TPP asks you to check it out for yourself. I mostly really liked MB because he appeared to have integrity, and didn't go down the easy route of commercialising TPP into endless retreats and tours ( like Eckhart Tolle for example), but rather gave you the formula in a self-facilitating format to get on with by yourself, for yourself. It's up to you, what you put into it.
Here's a link to MB raving about RNA drops on YT. He begins talking at 12.45 min. in this radio interview.

He also wrote another book after TPP called "The Retrieval of Adam Man", but I can't find it on amazon.

Yeah, a lot of people find the writing in TPP difficult to understand. Several times, I've considered rewriting TPP for people in a more direct, easier-to-understand way.

"Shoulds" are always the enemy. A "should" is born out of expectation, and expectation is born out of someone's judgment of how we are supposed to behave rather than letting us find our own way. That's why expectation creates resentment. Being judgmental and judging how we should act always turns out bad. Hence the problem with religions. "Should" puts us in a box, hindering authenticity. TPP has helped get my heart out of many of its unconscious and conscious "shoulds," and I continue to integrate more "shoulds" every day.

Thanks for the link. That was interesting. I listened to MB's portion of the show, but I plan to listen to the rest later. And I wasn't able to find The Retrieval of Adam Man either. Then again, I'm picky when it comes to fiction writing, and so far, I haven't been a fan of Michael Brown's style of fiction writing in the little short stories he writes. However, he may write differently in a fiction novel, I don't know. Fiction nowadays is written a lot differently it used to be written. I'll be glad when I finally get Book 1 of my urban fantasy trilogy the way I want it, but I think I've been editing it too long. That's just not healthy. lol

 

[BrianC]

I'd be interested to hear what Stephen Barrett, M.D. has to say about RnA Drops on Quackwatch? Bet it's not very complimentary. Wait and see.

Yeah, it's interesting to see the different opinions out there. I have a hard time taking people's opinions on things, because everyone's different. What works for one person may not work for someone else. If one person has one set of emotional problems blocking their body from utilizing a product, but another person doesn't have those emotional blocks, the product will work for the latter and not the former. And how can I know what those guys' emotional blocks are? Too many variables. I like to have firsthand experience with something to see how it works for me personally, unless I see something like cyanide in the ingredient list. lol I'll do a little research on a product first, usually, but until I try it, I really can't know if it's any good or not.

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

Keep up the PP, Bogdan. Your photo looks like you know how to relax.

 

[BrianC]

Great to hear from you, Walt!