Two things:
- I would avoid getting stuck in the cycle of discussing this topic with other individuals who are suffering but have seen little to no progress and do not have any answers. It's not going to help anyone; it's akin to asking someone who is $1 million in debt how to pay off your credit cards, or seeking advice from a pack-a-day smoker on giving up tobacco. Instead, focus on success stories and what those individuals did to overcome their challenges. I do not mean any disrespect by this - I sincerely wish I had only taken advice from people who had healed or were at least making great progress when I was still in a bad place. (Also, I agree with Jan: I've had people ask me to contact them outside of this site or even meet up with them for coffee. I say no. Not only does this violate the security and safety terms of the site, but you also run the risk of people becoming dependent on you and getting stuck in a cycle of reassurance seeking.)
- I am sorry your brain zaps are back. You must understand that antidepressant withdrawal is not permanent. It is absolutely impossible for these drugs to cause permanent brain damage, as the issues caused by withdrawal are naturally healed by the body. A classic sign of "TMS" is having an injury heal, but then experiencing symptoms on and off. Your on and off symptoms are classic signs of TMS as well as proof that your brain is fully capable of functioning without experiencing symptoms such as - not limited - brain zaps (which are harmless overactive nerves). I will quote myself - this is going to be long, and the final comment I will make in this thread:
THE MYTH OF "PERMANENT" WITHDRAWAL
I have not had ability to participate in forum discussions very frequently (this is not due to health-related issues or anything negative - I’m feeling fantastic, doing incredibly well, and truly living the best life I’ve ever lived!), but I wanted to ask you to please, please, PLEASE stay off the antidepressant withdrawal forums. Recall everything we’ve talked about here:
http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/i-was-going-to-post-a-success-story-on-an-anti-depressant-withdrawal-forum.20225/ (I was going to post a success story on an anti-depressant withdrawal forum)
Remember: injuries that healed long ago can continue to cause pain and/or other symptoms for weeks, months, years, and even decades due to TMS (which means nothing more than an overactive nervous system caused by emotions). This is essentially what central sensitization, phantom limb syndrome, etc. all are. Think about all the
fibromyalgia patients on the “fibro warrior” forums, and then think back to the countless individuals who have overcome fibromyalgia. The forums mean absolutely nothing, except that some individuals are experiencing symptoms and claiming they cannot heal without realizing the role the mind-body connection plays in their suffering. Do not do this to yourself! You are going to be fine!
I’ve listened to neurologists discuss patients who took too much MDMA, and serotonin receptors being “permanently burned out” - they say this is a total myth. The same applies to antidepressants. Focus on relaxing yourself. As Steve Ozanich says, when you experience symptoms, do not panic - ask yourself why your body feels the need to experience them. What is going on in your life? Symptoms are simply an indication that you are focusing on them and/or experiencing powerful emotions, even if you don’t realize it.
Here is what Steve himself has written to me in this topic last year:
Your belief is all that matters, nothing else, and your need for the physical diversion is the source of the issue.
There is nothing permanent, I don't believe from what I see here and have learned that the body cannot change at any time. The notion of permanence causes the permanence just as in the notion of
sickness.
Healing doesn't come from doing things, or tricks or tips or techniques or programs. Healing comes from deepening awareness. The suffering comes from the darkness of confusion and conflict, and the light shed on the cause is the healer.
There is no such thing as ongoing withdrawal beyond the tangibility that you give it. We create our realities every day based on belief and also repetitiveness.
Believe you are free today.
Here is what he said to me after I continued to visit withdrawal forums after my session with him:
You cannot heal until you believe it first, remember, believe first and THEN you will see it. But you kept researching after we spoke so you still don't believe in TMS. But as Dr. Sarno said, "it's never too late to have a happy childhood."
I wouldn't believe anything that anyone said in a forum, they don't know what they're talking about which is why they're there, especially a psychiatrist. People heal every day from everything, if they want to. However between imagination and desire, desire wins every time. So if you cannot see that you're ok and healed right now then you can't get there. There is no such thing as permanent damage from withdrawal. It's a myth, if the chemicals are not passing freely in the brain it's because your brain is using the opportunity of the false notion to continue to obsess. Remember we talked about how your brain only wants you to worry, you're addicted to worry only. The body heals once it is balanced and free of worry. If you worry you create the very problem that you are trying to solve, the snake eating its own tail.
And here is his response to me when I had nasty flare ups:
It looks like you had an extinction burst, nothing to fear, an archaic burst of anger and memory. Your body healed long ago from any withdrawal but your memory hangs on. Remember that Vedic line I quoted in GPD? "I use my memories but I don't allow my memories to use me."
If you focus on everything we talked about you will be ok, your brain has simply been opportunistic in using your early sensation of withdrawal to keep you feeling that you aren't healing (just like Lymes), but you healed long ago. You cannot get past the unpleasant sensations as long as you believe there is something wrong with you, and you still do. Yogananda wrote "...the consciousness of anything being chronic is a delusion."
So true...
Dr. Howard Schubiner, a medical doctor as well as a TMS expert, agrees:
I agree with Steve O. It makes no sense that you are still suffering from a form of lengthy withdrawal, but it makes perfect sense that this is TMS. I would point to the fact that the symptoms can be severe or very mild at different times; this is the classical description of a neural circuit induced symptom!! In other words, TMS.
THESE DRUGS CANNOT CAUSE PERMANENT DAMAGE, NO MATTER WHAT THE WITHDRAWAL FORUMS (WRONGLY) CLAIM. Here’s a lovely quote I found online back when I was greatly struggling:
Just wanted to point out that these drugs DON'T cause permanent brain damage although it CAN take a long time for the brain to heal. What happens is that although you can get the drug out of your system fairly quickly, it can take a lot longer for the previously down-regulated receptors to up-regulate. In addition, although Cymbalta selectively alters serotonin and norepinephrine, the brain responds by altering the levels of other neurotransmitters (chemical messengers) to find a new equilibrium. Again, it can take a while for it to readjust. This is why slow tapering is better. It's less of a shock to the brain and easier for individuals to cope with.
EVERYBODY CAN - AND SHOULD - HEAL
While some people may take longer to heal than others, nobody should be experiencing symptoms years later, regardless of how long they did or did not taper. For those who are, it’s because of powerful emotions. Withdrawal is real, but it eventually ends, and much sooner than the people on those forums are claiming. Remember that stress itself depletes serotonin, increases cortisol, activates the sympathetic nervous system, etc. Anyone who says they took two or five years to heal - or never healed - is stuck in a cycle they can 100% get out of once they fully understand what’s actually happening and address the situation. Let yourself heal by managing your stress and response to the symptoms.
For the record, I basically had to come off Cymbalta cold turkey (my taper was incredibly fast) because it was making me super sick, worsening as time went on. Genetic testing showed why I was so ill - my body couldn’t process the medication, and there wasn’t a great substitute for me available (this is why I wish doctors would run genetic tests before prescribing these medications, sigh). Do I recommend fast tapering or employing the cold turkey method? Definitely not. I had to be monitored very closely by loved ones to ensure I didn’t have any emotions breakdowns. But was I at risk of permanent physical, mental, and/or emotion damage? No! Your brain is safe!
WHY SOME TAKE LONGER TO HEAL, OR CLAIM THEY "NEVER DID"
An accumulation of trauma is the reason patients on these withdrawal forums have difficulty healing and moving on. The sympathetic nervous system was stressed out before the medication, and now the nervous system is stressed out without them. You may recall how I hadn't even read about alcoholic
neuropathy yet, but I was already experiencing nerve pain after a single glass of wine or two. As my neurologist stated: my body was so stressed out, it was responding to everything like a major trauma! This applies to long-term withdrawal, too.
My withdrawal thread discussed doctors realizing these patients are essentially stuck in sympathetic mode.
Symptoms like brain zaps are nothing more than overactive peripheral cranial nerves, not permanent brain damage. It’s all about balancing and managing your emotions as well as your perception of life (whatever it may be, especially when you're dealing with hurdles - challenging, stressful, fruitless, a significant effort, depressing, unlucky, etc.). It's important to focus on developing positive strategies for living your best life!
THE BRAIN IS ALWAYS CHANGING
Do not forget neuroplasticity and how the brain changes throughout your entire life. Beautiful new neural connections are forming every day. Your management and perception of life can change. Think about how much freedom you have to begin the process of changing your entire life today - physically, mentally, and emotionally!
You are not stuck in this place forever.
I was diagnosed with everything from OCD to major depressive disorder to agoraphobia and more. I had severe Cymbalta withdrawal. My nervous system was screwed up from years of stress, to the point that the biofeedback psychologist my neurologist wrote papers with thought might actually be nerve damage (it wasn’t). I could go on and on. And now I'm in the best place I've ever been. Work toward freeing yourself!
SEEING MORE AND MORE DOCTORS
Please do not forget that doctors are unfortunately not perfect: think about all the patients who were told they were permanently screwed due to fibromyalgia, CRPS, spinal
stenosis,
carpal tunnel, back arthritis, disc issues, certain
allergies, etc. Then recall how many of them healed.
www.thankyoudrsarno.org is filled with these stories. There’s a reason Sarno was regarded as being “crazy” by some of his colleagues.
This is also why Steve Ozanich says doctors can sometimes make us worse. My favorite neurologist used to tell me he was extremely concerned I’d eventually find a doctor who also believed something was wrong with me, leading me down a bad path (the biofeedback psychologist I previously mentioned ended up being that person). He begged me to stop seeing more doctors. It’s important to work with doctors who understand the mind-body connection. They don’t need to be “TMS” or Sarno experts, but they should recognize how the mind can affect the body.
TRENDY DISORDERS
Remember how many people in specific countries claimed they had long-term whiplash after car accidents, while other countries did not experience this phenomenon at epidemic levels. Or how many people say they have foot pain even after their broken foot heals. “Permanent” withdrawal is no different. These people all healed long ago, but they continue to experience symptoms due to powerful emotions.
SUPPLEMENTS CANNOT DO THE EMOTIONAL WORK FOR YOU
I should also note that I took numerous supplements (including 5-HTP, tryptophan, inositol, l-tyrosine, zinc, fish oil, plus MANY others - note that some supplements you may read about elsewhere cannot be mixed together, and I was not taking every single one of my numerous supplements at once), ate a "perfect" diet, completely cut out added sugar, quit drinking alcohol, exercised, etc. to help with the withdrawal. None of it seemed to help. Why? As Steve said, I had healed from the withdrawal long ago, but was stuck in a cycle of symptoms the same way someone with long-term whiplash gets stuck.
You've also got to do the work - which includes understanding and accepting what's truly happening, relaxing yourself, managing your emotions, and getting back to living life. These supplements are not required to heal (I would more heavily encourage meditation, exercise, and believing you are okay - all things I'd encourage in individuals without withdrawal, too, because they are simply good for you), but in certain individuals, they can alleviate some of the symptoms. Remember that supplements often require weaning, too. For me personally, if it had been many months since I got off the medication, I would be careful to not look at this as a "physical" problem that requires supplements and focus more on the meditation, exercise, and believing I am okay.
AVOIDING ALL-OR-NOTHING THINKING
Some of us saw a gradual decrease in our symptoms with some rough days, as opposed to them simply ending one day.
Do not give up because you still experience brain zaps or other symptoms sometimes. It's okay! Just remember that it's not permanent and your emotions will make the symptoms stick around. The worst thing you can do is be afraid. The fact that your body has gone days or weeks without having many of these symptoms serves as the ultimate PROOF.
and yeah I'm still off antidepressants, I don't think going back on would really help they seem so damaging, even if they can mask the symptoms for some people. Thanks I hope I do, you will get through this too, I'm really glad TMS has been helping you.
I definitely agree with the stress thing, stress, hormones and some physical things (sex, going the toilet, cars etc) are my biggest triggers. Do you also have PGAD? Do you know what triggered yours in the beginning?
