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Nontypical TMS symptoms - overcoming doubt

I'm bowing out of the sub-conversation that got going because I'm not sure what happened... and frankly just wish everyone the best no matter what you're dealing with.

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On the original topic, it's interesting to see how many people feel a bit shunned by the TMS mainstream. Certainly, there is a bit of hidden rage in there for all of us with this one because it's just much harder to relate when those sharing your story are so scarce. I do think the major TMS figureheads have tried to do a good job of reminding us that it can show up in any way... and Dr. Schubiner has an entire book on TMS as it relates to anxiety.

Those with free floating or ever-changing conditions may be dealing with a highly sensitized nervous system, plus some underlying emotional (TMS) issues?

It's a lot to unpack, but I suppose that's why my therapist reminds me that calming the system is still job number one, regardless of symptom because all of these things are neural pathway issues.

Schubiner had a great quote on a podcast I was listening to the other night. "Pain isn't the problem.... pain is the brain's solution to what it thinks is the problem"
So simple, but says it all. And I suppose it doesn't matter where it shows up.
 
BinLA said:
I'm bowing out of the sub-conversation that got going because I'm not sure what happened... and frankly just wish everyone the best no matter what you're dealing with.
Click to expand...

Interestingly there is wisdom whenever we go off the beaten track, and in it’s own way the sub-conversation was a microcosm of the main topic. The questions of what is and what is not TMS are central to the issues of fear and faith, doubt and understanding that every last one of us grapples with.

When you’re facing something as @nowa is, these matters crystallise diamond sharp and the tension is enormous. This in itself is TMS writ large, not the least because it red flags all our demons and so if we are crafty and mindful we can snare a few for a shakedown. It’s not much fun and it’s a terrible time to learn the essential art of self-care but needs must when the devil is riding.

Remember too that in The Divided Mind Sarno discusses that even if a condition is not Pure TMS, there is always an emotional component and this can be resolved through TMS protocols. Calming our oversensitised nervous systems is something Sarno’s most trusted psychotherapist acknowledged and practiced as a pre-requisite to the psychological work.

So we calm our body, heal our wounded emotional selves and in so doing take ourselves out of fight/flight/freeze/fawn (fawn = people-pleasing) and into rest and digest, healing mode.

This is where the magic happens.

BinLA said:
On the original topic, it's interesting to see how many people feel a bit shunned by the TMS mainstream. Certainly, there is a bit of hidden rage in there for all of us with this one because it's just much harder to relate when those sharing your story are so scarce...So simple, but says it all. And I suppose it doesn't matter where it shows up.
Click to expand...

Way back in the day when I discovered Sarno this wiki didn’t exist. There was only the hardcore TMShelp which was fiercely intolerant of anything non-Sarno, including the amazing Claire Weekes. Forest created this place to be more expansive and inclusive, and the difference is demonstrated in the soaring number of healings. (Also worth noting that one of the rebels from that old site, Hillbilly, is much loved for carving his unique path).

In the early days here some of the more purist Sarno devotees held true and so being someone with a non-typical TMS condition that was utterly resilient to the conventional suggestions that one journal etc was still a lonely place to be. I remember one angry post I made where I expressed my bafflement that Sarno thought there was only one Trigeminal Nerve, which was a sensory nerve. This was enraging because the type of neuralgia I experienced was of the motor nerve. I couldn’t believe he didn’t know this basic anatomical fact and this omission created epic doubt for me, as I’m sure you can imagine. So I took my leave of the wiki and Sarno, crashing out in a blaze of misery, which as it turned out was the very best thing I could have done. My Story picks up the tale from there.

Therefore I do completely understand the need to hear about cases and conditions that are the same as our own but this can become a stumbling block to healing, not the least because it’s essentially a form of Reassurance Seeking (which @Dorado and @JanAtheCPA have written about).

Sometimes you have to be the trailblazer.

And somewhere along that way your TMS knowledge graduates into complete understanding, and the magic I mentioned above illuminates into the simplest equation.

T(ms) = Tension

Tension (Ft) = Force of gravity (Fg) = m × g

T(ms)/Tension (Ft) = Force of Emotional Gravity = pain x fear

(Apologies to the physicists and engineers out there for this bastardisation).

In a nutshell, your leverage point is in the reduction of emotional weight, whatever you are dealing with. It’s a natural law.

plum x
 
nowa said:
thank you,I have tried starting the program, but I am too distracted by fear about a possible diagnosis of PARKINSON'S disease, and I will be seeing the neurologist tomorrow, unfortunately she won't be able to give me a diagnosis tomorrow because i need to have a DAT scan first, and i refused it initially because it measures the amount of dopamine the brain produces and i have been on opioids which can stop dopamine production for about a year, but it has now been a year since i came off them, i imagine that that is what the appointment is about. I am terrified of the Scan because it involves swallowing a radioactive substance and having an injection of something to protect your thyroid, plus i have had dopamine deficiency symptoms for years now... But i will have to face all this tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Nowa, that sounds really hard and I'm sorry. I hope you are doing okay.
 
tgirl said:
People mention that if symptoms change then it’s another good indicator of TMS. What about if you’ve had several inexplicable symptoms over many years that go away but each symptom lasts for months or years? What if it’s that kind of changing rather than frequent change? And of course all the medical testing has been done. Would that constitute TMS? It makes me nervous when I hear people having symptoms all over the place. Mine just move around my legs, although I’ve had many other classic TMS symptoms in the past. Thanks.
Click to expand...

For me the key point here would be that the the fact that the symptoms move (or come and go), no matter how long it takes them to move, and no matter how short or long the distances they move, means that each individual part of your body is capable of feeling good. They maybe just don't do it at the same time, because of the symptom imperative. But, for example, if your pain moves from one part of your leg to another and then back again, then both of those parts of your leg CAN feel good. And sometimes DO feel good. So to me that is really strong evidence that you can successfully use TMS treatment approaches to get both those parts to feel good at the same time forever. And then spread that understanding to include all the symptoms over your entire body. Overwhelming, yes, but very hopeful too.

But I don't want my post to scare people who have symptoms that DON'T move around. Most of my symptoms move around, but I had a few symptoms that didn't move or come-and-go at all. For years. And they are gone, because of TMS treatment.

I also still have some symptoms that are still here but over time, I notice more and more movement and coming-and-going which shows me that treatment is working. So I don't give up, even thought I get incredibly discouraged at times.
 
BinLA said:
Those with free floating or ever-changing conditions may be dealing with a highly sensitized nervous system, plus some underlying emotional (TMS) issues?
Click to expand...

The great news for many of us is that a highly sensitized nervous system is a version of TMS according to many experts in the area :) In fact, some authors point out that if you have changing/moving conditions, this is excellent evidence that it is TMS. But I don't think you HAVE to have changing/moving symptoms for it to be TMS. It's just that if the condition moves and changes, than that means the different parts of you are capable of feeling good sometimes, even if they never do it at the same time. So then you can move forward confidently trusting in the inherent capacity for wellness of each part and use TMS treatment to figure out how to get everything to feel good at the same time all the time.

But I can't leave this without saying that if your symptoms don't move or change, don't despair! That can be TMS too. I've had both types (changing and non-changing) of symptoms respond beautifully to TMS treatment, even if I am still working on a few lingering symptoms. Best wishes!
 
here's an update of my situation, I have heard absolutely nothing about the date of the DAT Scan, nor of the results of the blood tests that they did on the 11th feb at the NEUROLOGY appointment, but every day I expect to hear in the post, so I waste lot of energy in anxiety about the post every day. I had a day when I thought Fuck it, I am going to get on with my life, so I went out IN THE EVENING!!!!LOL, and actually enjoyed myself. (I went to the library for a free talk on Jung by Gary Lachman, who used to be in Blondie) I couldn't walk normally, as per usual, but I didn't let it bother me. I paid for it the next day. my symptoms were all magnified and there were a whole lot of new ones, and I am still feeling crappy, possibly because I have got a nasty stomach bug...

but I CAN'T WAIT to try getting on with my life again...
 
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nowa said:
here's an update of my situation, I have heard absolutely nothing about the date of the DAT Scan, nor of the results of the blood tests that they did on the 11th feb at the NEUROLOGY appointment, but every day I expect to hear in the post, so I waste lot of energy in anxiety about the post every day. I had a day when I thought Fuck it...
Click to expand...

Good for you, Nowa! Glad you got out and did something for you. Yes, we can get a little blowback sometimes when we push the limits but that's OK. You're proving to yourself that you're OK. We all have to work through these things, but it's always great when we get out and remind ourselves who we really are.
 
TG957 said:
Amazing post! It brings it all together. The root of many problems in the body is unbalanced nervous system. This is why meditation works for seemingly unrelated problems and why so many symptoms disappear once you calm down your nerves. I was never convinced by the explanation Sarno gave to back pain in early 1970s, but then neuroscience was in a cradle. His genius is in finding a solution without maybe truly understanding the cause. Supply of oxygen to the muscles cannot explain many other non-muscular symptoms that clear from TMS approach, but neuroscience has a clear explanation because brain controls so many functions in our bodies, including auto-immune and hormonal.
Click to expand...

Just bought the book. I'm delighted to see a woman write about her experience and offer it to the public at large. Thank you for your efforts. Best wishes.
 
MWsunin12 said:
Just bought the book. I'm delighted to see a woman write about her experience and offer it to the public at large. Thank you for your efforts. Best wishes.
Click to expand...
MWsunin12, thank you so much! That was the entire purpose, to change the public perception that chronic pain is a physical problem, not emotional or social. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
 
BinLA said:
Glad the post resonated with a few people, or... maybe not glad actually? lol. I don't want any of this for anyone. But feeling like a "TMS Outsider" is a thing, and might be worth some of the experts spending more time with. I know Dan Buglio has touched on this some. And I know the chorus from the TMS community is always "but it's all the same thing!"
Again, easy to say... harder to put in practice....

High level IBS for months, then clearing... then extreme rolling daily panic, anger, anxiety.... then a couple good months... then groin pain... then a few good days... then headaches.... then they're gone.... then gastritis and extreme, scary stomach pain....

All of the while working on the concepts, working on building up better responses to fear... and assuming along the way as these things leave and better days come... maybe I'm on the right track? Only to get kicked back down. Rinse and repeat for many years. (This isn't an extinction burst that lasted a few weeks)

I think those of us who experience things this way are prone to becoming angry and distrusting the process. Again, never to underestimate back pain. (I've had that too! 20 years ago, debilitating) But, from our perspective... you can almost resent the story of the guy with back pain who didn't know about Sarno, read a book... journaled a few times and saw progress on his one and only symptom... only to fully recover. (And of course start a podcast later lol)

I deeply appreciate what this community has done for people in pain, including myself. It's helped me regain so much of my life back. But... doubt is a big deal.
And those who don't fall in the standard TMS protocol are going to be more prone to this doubt. It's a natural response.
Click to expand...
Hi, I am in that extreme stomach pain boat right now. I am struggling to think of it as tms cuz every time I eat I get light headed and a head ache and get super weak and I never feel full. Do you think that this could be tms? I also have really bad indigestion and this all started after a symptom imperative from cfs to ocd
 
Yeah, I feel like the TMS-equivalent guy. Doubt is further reinforced when the equivalents are not exactly benign (e.g., severe, unremitting reflux) or they are connected to an abnormality than no one can give you a definitive answer as to whether or not it's causing your symptom(s) (hiatal hernia, to name one).

I wish I hadn't read so much about the symptoms I experience over the last few years. The struggle for me is letting go of information, and then second-guessing myself for doing so
 
Idearealist said:
The struggle for me is letting go of information, and then second-guessing myself for doing so
Click to expand...
This is very common. Doubt is the worst obstacle everyone is facing. Repetition, however, is the mother of every learning. If you repeat enough times that your pain is the act by your brain, you will believe it eventually.
 
BinLA said:
Glad the post resonated with a few people, or... maybe not glad actually? lol. I don't want any of this for anyone. But feeling like a "TMS Outsider" is a thing, and might be worth some of the experts spending more time with. I know Dan Buglio has touched on this some. And I know the chorus from the TMS community is always "but it's all the same thing!"
Again, easy to say... harder to put in practice....

High level IBS for months, then clearing... then extreme rolling daily panic, anger, anxiety.... then a couple good months... then groin pain... then a few good days... then headaches.... then they're gone.... then gastritis and extreme, scary stomach pain....

All of the while working on the concepts, working on building up better responses to fear... and assuming along the way as these things leave and better days come... maybe I'm on the right track? Only to get kicked back down. Rinse and repeat for many years. (This isn't an extinction burst that lasted a few weeks)

I think those of us who experience things this way are prone to becoming angry and distrusting the process. Again, never to underestimate back pain. (I've had that too! 20 years ago, debilitating) But, from our perspective... you can almost resent the story of the guy with back pain who didn't know about Sarno, read a book... journaled a few times and saw progress on his one and only symptom... only to fully recover. (And of course start a podcast later lol)

I deeply appreciate what this community has done for people in pain, including myself. It's helped me regain so much of my life back. But... doubt is a big deal.
And those who don't fall in the standard TMS protocol are going to be more prone to this doubt. It's a natural response.
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing your story- I'm going through the same thing with all these different sensations and symptoms, except with slightly thinner skin (literally), and stiffness/instability
 
Idearealist said:
Yeah, I feel like the TMS-equivalent guy. Doubt is further reinforced when the equivalents are not exactly benign (e.g., severe, unremitting reflux) or they are connected to an abnormality than no one can give you a definitive answer as to whether or not it's causing your symptom(s) (hiatal hernia, to name one).

I wish I hadn't read so much about the symptoms I experience over the last few years. The struggle for me is letting go of information, and then second-guessing myself for doing so
Click to expand...

Yes! Sometimes I just feel like I know too much! The intellect can certainly wreak havoc with a lot of knowledge. The cul-de-sac of the second-guessing and analyzing is hellacious, stress-inducing and the opposite of helpful.
 
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