Muscle pain

[Patty Cakes]

Hi Patty, I think you need to get clear and I'm curious also as to what it means for you when you say you have TMJ. When someone says they have TMJ, they usually mean they have TMJD - temporomandibular joint dysfunction. The key question I think is if you had no pain, would you still consider yourself to have dysfunction?

I say that because plenty of people clench their jaw under stress (I looked up the most common place to clench under stress, the answer was jaw) - stress shows up in many other parts of our body too as tension, including the pelvic floor and shoulders (there's nothing wrong with this, it's normal). Many people's jaw also clicks (we have an example on this forum with Cactusflower, but there's no pain there). Both of these are common, but they often don't lead to pain.

If you would still consider your jaw to be dysfunctional even if you had no pain, then my argument kind of falls apart, but if you wouldn't (and you're only really saying it's dysfunction because it is supposedly leading to pain), then you don't really have TMJ or TMJD because those incidental findings aren't the cause of the pain (they are normal and aren't representative of dysfunction). By saying to yourself that you have TMJ, you're naming the cause of your pain, and no wonder you're terrified. if I was consistently telling myself that I had pelvic floor dysfunction (which I did tell myself for a while, and no surprise I didn't get that far during that time), but if I kept running that programming in my head, I never would have recovered because I never would have lowered the fear enough to react better to symptoms and to expand my activity (which ultimately leads to recovery, but that's very hard to do if you keep reinforcing to yourself that something is wrong with your body).

If you genuinely believe it is TMS and the evidence is there, I would drop the TMJ label completely (medical labels never help). You don't have TMJ, instead you have TMS manifesting as pain in the jaw. Just like I had TMS manifesting as pain in the pelvis (not pelvic floor dysfunction or pudendal neuralgia)

Many, many years ago I had clicking in my jaw, along with left upper arm pain. I also had tingling in my fingertips. MY dentist told me I had TMJ (i think some may call it TMJD now). GIven that diagnosis,I guess I always blamed TMJ for all my pain, since I was told it can cause pain throughout your body. It was always my belief that was the cause of my pain, despite not having any head pain for years. I've read about others with TMJ and most of their pain was in their head or jaw, which I never had. Perhaps I never had TMJ and was misdiagnosed? I always suffered a lot of anxiety. It wasn't until a couple of yrs ago (when my husband got very sick and multiple hospitals and rehabs) that my pain got worse. I could feel it down my right side (the side diagnosed w/TMJ) and when I felt that pain, I would feel it on right side head. But then it switched sides and affected my left side and head, although not as bad. THrough the years, I always wondered why I never suffered head pain if I have TMJ. Today, I had to call 911 for my husband he literally passed out in his chair. So yes I'm very anxious today and I've been anxious like this, off and on for two years now. So I guess perhaps just realizing that maybe I don't have TMJ that I've been sort of blaming my pain on for all these years, I could just substitute the TMJ and just cause it call it stress and anxiety. Especially these last two years when the pain has flared up really bad. I guess when you have a label stuck on you such as TMJ or anything else you begin to panic and worry. I do know I've always been a very anxious person. I thank you for pointing this out to me. I never really thought about it in this way.

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

Many, many years ago I had clicking in my jaw, along with left upper arm pain. I also had tingling in my fingertips. MY dentist told me I had TMJ (i think some may call it TMJD now). GIven that diagnosis,I guess I always blamed TMJ for all my pain, since I was told it can cause pain throughout your body. It was always my belief that was the cause of my pain, despite not having any head pain for years. I've read about others with TMJ and most of their pain was in their head or jaw, which I never had. Perhaps I never had TMJ and was misdiagnosed?

I think that's a big possibility! The dentist may have seen the jaw clicking and seen the left upper arm pain and tingling and thought - "TMJ can cause those symptoms and her jaw is clicking, must be TMJ!". The arm pain and tingling could easily have been TMS (I'm not sure whether you still have that - let me know) and the jaw clicking was just a coincidence. It's the same with people with disc bulges - they could have TMS pain and the disc bulge is often just a coincidence (it's often there long before the pain - they just don't know it as people don't have a reason to know and investigate without symptoms) - but the doctor just assumes it must be causing it. Did your jaw click before this? It doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't TMS if the answer is no, but if the answer is yes and your jaw clicked long before this upper arm pain, then that strongly indicates that it was just a coincidence and wasn't the cause of the initial symptoms.

I guess when you have a label stuck on you such as TMJ or anything else you begin to panic and worry.

Absolutely I completely understand - it's very common and that's why labels (especially those that are often TMS) can be so damaging.

This all makes a lot of sense to me - because if I'm the brain and I am choosing what pain to give you in order to really get your attention (it's not a punishment, it's only trying to protect you), where would I choose? Well I know you've been given a TMJ diagnosis (whether it's actually correct or not), so if I give you pain that makes sense based on a TMJ diagnosis, I know you'll think it's physical (because of the fear around the diagnosis) and therefore take it seriously. TMS pain is pointless if it doesn't get your serious attention. The diagnosis was likely a nocebo and laid the foundations for the areas and nature of this TMS pain - it makes all the sense in the world based on TMS theory.

 

[Patty Cakes]

I think that's a big possibility! The dentist may have seen the jaw clicking and seen the left upper arm pain and tingling and thought - "TMJ can cause those symptoms and her jaw is clicking, must be TMJ!". The arm pain and tingling could easily have been TMS (I'm not sure whether you still have that - let me know) and the jaw clicking was just a coincidence. It's the same with people with disc bulges - they could have TMS pain and the disc bulge is often just a coincidence (it's often there long before the pain - they just don't know it as people don't have a reason to know and investigate without symptoms) - but the doctor just assumes it must be causing it. Did your jaw click before this? It doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't TMS if the answer is no, but if the answer is yes and your jaw clicked long before this upper arm pain, then that strongly indicates that it was just a coincidence and wasn't the cause of the initial symptoms.



Absolutely I completely understand - it's very common and that's why labels (especially those that are often TMS) can be so damaging.

This all makes a lot of sense to me - because if I'm the brain and I am choosing what pain to give you in order to really get your attention (it's not a punishment, it's only trying to protect you), where would I choose? Well I know you've been given a TMJ diagnosis (whether it's actually correct or not), so if I give you pain that makes sense based on a TMJ diagnosis, I know you'll think it's physical (because of the fear around the diagnosis) and therefore take it seriously. TMS pain is pointless if it doesn't get your serious attention. The diagnosis was likely a nocebo and laid the foundations for the areas and nature of this TMS pain - it makes all the sense in the world based on TMS theory.

I'm beginning to see that what you're saying all makes incredible sense. I had to call 911 twice yesterday. My husband is in the ICU today it was a very stressful day for me. My whole right side is hurting today. So I guess that's where under stress, tension and anxiety, the pain tends to be. I thank you for having all that insight that you just gave me. I guess I was so locked into that TMJ diagnosis that I couldn't see it for really what it was--just incredible anxiety, tension and panic, especially these last two years. I thank you so much for your insight. this has helped me tremendously.

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

My whole right side is hurting today.

That seems way too broad to be blamed on your jaw!

I guess I was so locked into that TMJ diagnosis that I couldn't see it for really what it was--just incredible anxiety, tension and panic, especially these last two years. I thank you so much for your insight. this has helped me tremendously.

You're welcome! It's easy do and I've been there myself. It's especially easy if you're so used to putting other people first and as a result often minimise or dismiss your own stress/emotions (if you're not aware of your own stress/emotions, it's hard to appreciate that as the culprit as opposed to a structural explanation that you've been told by a professional) - but it's great that you're starting the self-compassionate exercise of appreciating your stress/emotions which is resulting in you standing up for yourself more

It seems you don't have TMJ, you have TMS instead and as such are like me and everyone else here who have healed from a variety of different symptoms, it's all the same solution (and hopefully that makes you feel less alone compared to when it was the narrower criteria of TMJ)

 

[Patty Cakes]

That seems way too broad to be blamed on your jaw!



You're welcome! It's easy do and I've been there myself. It's especially easy if you're so used to putting other people first and as a result often minimise or dismiss your own stress/emotions (if you're not aware of your own stress/emotions, it's hard to appreciate that as the culprit as opposed to a structural explanation that you've been told by a professional) - but it's great that you're starting the self-compassionate exercise of appreciating your stress/emotions which is resulting in you standing up for yourself more

It seems you don't have TMJ, you have TMS instead and as such are like me and everyone else here who have healed from a variety of different symptoms, it's all the same solution (and hopefully that makes you feel less alone compared to when it was the narrower criteria of TMJ)

Thanks so much! Today the pain disappeared from my right side and is now on my left. But I am a little anxious because I have to bring some things to my husband, who is now sitting in an emergency room, since the ICU unit is full. But I can definitely see that stress, panic and anxiety definitely play a huge role in me. but I'm learning new techniques and I've been able to lessen the pain in my head, which has been a huge relief for me. THanks again. I would have never had this realization by myself.