Muscle pain

J

Jake

Peer Supporter
I'm not new to TMS, and earlier on this year, I felt pain in my left leg (most of the time if any of these episodes happened it was the left as per Dr. Sarno). it wasn't intense but I was limping. Although I felt in was TMS, I was bothered that it didn't go away as quickly as I had in other situations.
This group has been wonderful and someone suggested, you have to give it time. Thank G-D it eventually went away. It's been a few months now, and I started getting muscle fatigue in both my legs. Not as acute as the other pain. But now I'm starting to worry so my TMS brain is winning here. The pain I feel is one that when someone does exercise, and he gets "Charlie Horse" this is the type of pain I feel . So even is I move slightly, I feel it in my muscles. I had this for about a week, maybe two. Now I feel it extended to other areas of the body although it's still mainly in my thighs. So now I'm focusing on it and getting really down. I have been riding my bicycle to work. So I can definately work around this, but the past two days I've been feeling also lethargic.
So my ultimate question is does could this still be TMS ? could someone tell me if they had a similar situation? Thank you for your input!
Jake
 
Chances are it’s TMS if you are fixed, focused and searching into the sensations. The spreading worry of physical stuff is also a great distraction.
What truly is exhausting you? How are you really doing? What are you feeling? What are you avoiding?

All first line questions.
 
Thanks for answering. I'm doing everything but sluggishly. I did feel a little upbeat after I took a nap so there's a component of lack of sleep that needs to be addressed. For some reason the muscle pain was a little better as well. So I really feel that my mood plays a role. But I really deep down feel that my TMS brain is trying to distract me.
 
Hi @Jake "I'm doing everything" is not an answer to any of the questions I asked you to contemplate for yourself. "I feel that mood plays a role" is MUCH closer to the truth in the things you mention above.
We often feel sluggish, and exhausted and blame this symptom on "sleep" or lack of it. But there is much more to the FEELING of exhaustion - the sensations in the body and mind of what we label as exhaustion. It is often an emotional exhaustion because those who are experiencing pain or symptoms are often fighting against the nature of them. Meaning we run from looking inward and asking the question I asked you to ask yourself. If you often find yourself avoiding the question "How am I really doing" or brushing it off by answering it with "I'm fine" (even if you are fine, you can answer that more thoroughly. "Feeling energized!", "Happy" is more accurate to an actual meaning description of how you feel or where you are at emotionally). Sit down, take a moment to ask yourself what you really need. A rest - is not just a physical thing. It's a mental break away from our routines. Perhaps that is what you need although you may really need to reflect upon what is truly going on beneath the surface - let's face it, everyone needs this!
 
As @Cactusflower says, ask yourself what is really exhausting you. Something that can play a part in this is boredom... doing too much stuff that you don't actually want to do. Controversial, I know, but what I've personally found is that the nervous system can also trigger fatigue, lethargy, or aches to force you to notice that your life has become too narrow. We might be doing a lot of things, some of which on the face of it we think we should enjoy doing, but do we really want to be doing them? Just recognising this is happening can help enormously because it means we are being our authentic selves, which is important for recovery.
 
Hi there @Jake ,

Just a reminder on "think pyschologically, not physically." From your post, it's all physical symptoms and how they're manifesting and affecting you. That's exactly the distraction that TMS provides, right? The trap.


What about stuff that's just weighing on you; new stressors; seemingly impossible situations that came up (maybe again in a different way?); unfair stuff; family difficulties; work stuff; maybe the kind of cycle you identified in that past that sent symptoms spiraling around? How do you feel about the stuff going on around you? There's plenty to send a TMSer back to symptoms out in the world today.

Wishing you well!

And, the posts above are really good, but if I can add here...I've got a couple great posts that I've bookmarked (such a great tool on this site).

This is about focusing on symptoms and where that can get us:
>from @Cactusflower
Cactusflower

Post in thread 'Speech getting "stuck" with TMS history - normal scans'

Chen said:
Thank you very much! In fact, all the recovery stories I’ve come across were about physical pain. If you feel comfortable sharing your neurological symptoms, I would be very interested to hear about them.
Click to expand...

No, I don't discuss symptoms much here. They are meaningless - because they are only an expression of TMS. Every single symptom of any kind in one person is equal to any TMS symptom in another person. Focus on the education and work, which I mentioned in my first response to you and not the symptom. Focusing on the symptom is focusing on the physical and a distraction from the...
  • Like

This is such a nice list of what we can say to our meddling brains:
>from @BloodMoon
BloodMoon

Post in thread 'I know what my rage is about…. now what'

gunttta said:
May I borrow some wordings you use to shut the brain up?
Click to expand...

Here are some suggestions to choose from (apologies if any are repeated at all):

“You are creating this pain as a distraction from my emotions, but I am safe to feel them.”

“You cannot distract me with pain anymore. I am paying attention to my emotions.”

“Brain, this pain is due to TMS, not a structural abnormality.”

“Brain, I know you are creating these symptoms to distract me from my emotions, but I am ready to feel them.”

“There is nothing physically wrong with my body; you don’t need to protect me with pain.”

“This...
  • Like
 
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Thanks for all your responses. I wasn't able to get on and see the responses till today. One of the legs feels a little better . But still struggling with leg pain. Although deep down I know it's TMS. I also got checked out by a Dr. And Thank G-D could not find anything wrong except I am deficient in vitamin B12.. Not sure how to proceed from here.
 
Bonnard said:
Hi there @Jake ,

Just a reminder on "think pyschologically, not physically." From your post, it's all physical symptoms and how they're manifesting and affecting you. That's exactly the distraction that TMS provides, right? The trap.


What about stuff that's just weighing on you; new stressors; seemingly impossible situations that came up (maybe again in a different way?); unfair stuff; family difficulties; work stuff; maybe the kind of cycle you identified in that past that sent symptoms spiraling around? How do you feel about the stuff going on around you? There's plenty to send a TMSer back to symptoms out in the world today.

Wishing you well!

And, the posts above are really good, but if I can add here...I've got a couple great posts that I've bookmarked (such a great tool on this site).

This is about focusing on symptoms and where that can get us:
>from @Cactusflower
Cactusflower

Post in thread 'Speech getting "stuck" with TMS history - normal scans'

Chen said:
Thank you very much! In fact, all the recovery stories I’ve come across were about physical pain. If you feel comfortable sharing your neurological symptoms, I would be very interested to hear about them.
Click to expand...

No, I don't discuss symptoms much here. They are meaningless - because they are only an expression of TMS. Every single symptom of any kind in one person is equal to any TMS symptom in another person. Focus on the education and work, which I mentioned in my first response to you and not the symptom. Focusing on the symptom is focusing on the physical and a distraction from the...
  • Like

This is such a nice list of what we can say to our meddling brains:
>from @BloodMoon
BloodMoon

Post in thread 'I know what my rage is about…. now what'

gunttta said:
May I borrow some wordings you use to shut the brain up?
Click to expand...

Here are some suggestions to choose from (apologies if any are repeated at all):

“You are creating this pain as a distraction from my emotions, but I am safe to feel them.”

“You cannot distract me with pain anymore. I am paying attention to my emotions.”

“Brain, this pain is due to TMS, not a structural abnormality.”

“Brain, I know you are creating these symptoms to distract me from my emotions, but I am ready to feel them.”

“There is nothing physically wrong with my body; you don’t need to protect me with pain.”

“This...
  • Like
Click to expand...
I like the concepts in these bookmarked posts and in some of the other responses here. For myself, I interpret this to mean that when my pain flares up, I should look inward. Rather than letting the pain distract me and thinking "oh no, its in my knee now, oh no that bend made it feel worse" I should think "alright, my brain is trying to distract me from something - what is it? What am I feeling emotionally, not physically?" These are good reminders.
 
Jake said:
Thanks for all your responses. I wasn't able to get on and see the responses till today. One of the legs feels a little better . But still struggling with leg pain. Although deep down I know it's TMS. I also got checked out by a Dr. And Thank G-D could not find anything wrong except I am deficient in vitamin B12.. Not sure how to proceed from here.
Click to expand...
I gather from the responses and the concept behind TMS that now that you have ruled out an actual direct physical cause, you should start looking at your emotions. What is the pain trying to distract you from? I think that is what you need to address (myself as well, to be honest - reading this thread was a good reminder). I find writing things out is helpful for me, and that I need to set aside some time to allow my brain to think deeper than the every day surface stuff.
 
Polydactylkat Thank you for your input. Unfortunately there have been many stressors. I am aware of them and in the past I was able to get pain free from all the physical manifestations. But this time it hasn't seemed to work and that gives me more anxiety. It's just a negative loop. And I'm unsure what to do now. I'm also second guessing whether this is indeed TMS or not. I do have plenty of reasons to assume it is at least partially TMS. But The doubts just keep on hindering my progress.
 
Hi Jake, I have two thoughts:

1. Sometimes awareness isn't enough, and the symptoms are pushing us to self-improvement/growth. What steps can you take to lower the pressure (where you can)? Can you lower the self-criticism? Can you be a little less perfectionistic? Can you take time for yourself more and meet your needs? I'm making assumptions based on the TMS personality, but I'm keen to see if any of that resonates :)

2. I think to pays to bring the doubt into the light. What do you think is making you second guess the TMS diagnosis given the evidence you have?
 
Thank you Adam!. To a degree I am a perfectionist But most of my stressors are not from that.
The reason I'm second guessing, is that in my past dealings with TMS. I listened to some of Dr Sarno's past speeches, and I was convinced that my symptoms were TMS and I fought hard not to give in to my symptoms. They went away mostly within a week.
I tried the same thing now, but it didn't go away. Maybe I had some relief for a short period of time, but it keeps coming back. I've been going to PT and I feel it helped only that now the paint shifted to my back. And then my thighs again.
To make matters worse a part of my head feels like I bumped it ( I didn't but when I press down on a certain area it hurts as if I bumped it). I had this in other areas of my head and all went away. I spoke to a neurologist and he didn't think I was describing anything serious Thank G-D! But it still bothers me! I wouldn't be surprised if that is also another manifestation of TMS. I'm actually wondering if anyone on this forum had anything like that.
So to sum up, all the modalities I used when I had other TMS issues. Don't seem to work now. And that is really getting me down!
Thanks for your support!
 
Jake said:
Thank you Adam!. To a degree I am a perfectionist But most of my stressors are not from that.
The reason I'm second guessing, is that in my past dealings with TMS. I listened to some of Dr Sarno's past speeches, and I was convinced that my symptoms were TMS and I fought hard not to give in to my symptoms. They went away mostly within a week.
I tried the same thing now, but it didn't go away. Maybe I had some relief for a short period of time, but it keeps coming back. I've been going to PT and I feel it helped only that now the paint shifted to my back. And then my thighs again.
To make matters worse a part of my head feels like I bumped it ( I didn't but when I press down on a certain area it hurts as if I bumped it). I had this in other areas of my head and all went away. I spoke to a neurologist and he didn't think I was describing anything serious Thank G-D! But it still bothers me! I wouldn't be surprised if that is also another manifestation of TMS. I'm actually wondering if anyone on this forum had anything like that.
So to sum up, all the modalities I used when I had other TMS issues. Don't seem to work now. And that is really getting me down!
Thanks for your support!
Click to expand...
I would urge you to re-consider your idea of TMS and your personal stressors. I'm not saying you are wrong, I am suggesting that you might open your mind to the fact you have recurrent symptom cycles and that there is some reason your body needs to keep showing you that there is something going on deep down. The fact that little things like this are so irritating "bothers me!" is a great indication. I'm not suggesting one "thing" - you might be the type of person who's little things pile up and simply reminding yourself of TMS works for a time. Then things build again, which is basically what @Adam Coloretti (coach) Notice that "fought hard not give in" can be a form of judgement towards yourself - and I'm not saying that you need to "give in" - only have a little compassion for the fact that you get angry (Irritated) and that stuff can pile up unnoticed.

Really, all it takes is a little balance. There's a difference between it's bothering me and IT'S BOTHERING ME, G-D! to your nervous system. Helping yourself find the sweet spot really gives peace of mind.
 
I second what @Cactusflower said. There's usually two parts of it - the first is the initial trigger, and then the symptom is often made worse by our reaction to it (which is usually fuelled by the belief that it indicates damage or something wrong).

Given the symptoms are re-occurring, it is likely that there's something deeper under the surface that is causing them (compare that to my situation for example, and this isn't to brag or anything it's just a useful comparison, my main symptom was after an injury (so I was convinced that there was lingering damage), and I've only had one newer symptom since then that only lasted a few weeks - if I was consistently getting new symptoms then I'd be drawn more to the emotional work and I would reflect on if there's more work here to be done).

Now, the only reason (I say only, I'm not trying to minimising health anxiety, it can be severe) for this could be health anxiety, but that in and of itself is an emotional factor and is likely reflective of a deeper issue or core need. In this case, you could be having normal, acute symptoms but the health anxiety is making them bigger and turning them into something more chronic.

So it could be healthy anxiety or it could be a deeper emotional need/message that is shaping the symptom. I don't think it's possible to say that stress in isolation causes symptoms (as there are plenty of very stressed people who don't get chronic symptoms), but rather those with the TMS personality get symptoms because of their relationship with stress (we might blame ourselves for the stress, or be less accepting of it etc.). So whilst you might be right, I would potentially challenge the idea that there's no link between your perfectionism and your stress - your perfectionism may be impacting how you view and hold the stress in such a way that leads to symptoms.

On the PRT side of things, symptoms are in a way our brain asking us whether we are okay. It's a sort of test to see our reaction, are we going to re-assure the brain that nothing is wrong or are we going to confirm it was right to signal danger by reacting with fear and panic? I think it was wise for you to get this area on your head checked - but it seemed like you jumped to the worse case scenario, even though you had it in other areas of your head that cleared up (I appreciate that you could look at that and say it worries me more because this specific area is still sensitive whilst the other parts of my head aren't, but looked at another way it is proof that this same sensation is likely harmless, as it was for the other areas of your head that used to feel that way - it all depends on how you look at it, and then comes back to in large part personality).

Jake said:
and I fought hard not to give in to my symptoms.
Click to expand...

I respect that this worked, but this isn't my preferred way of looking at it. To me the idea of fighting it can carry with it connotations that something is wrong and there's something to fix, when there isn't (at least from a body perspective). Whilst I would pivot on this mindset anyway, that's definitely not going to work in my opinion if the recurring symptoms are an emotional message - the more you don't get the message, the louder it will get.

Jake said:
Charlie Horse" this is the type of pain I feel . So even is I move slightly, I feel it in my muscles. I had this for about a week, maybe two. Now I feel it extended to other areas of the body although it's still mainly in my thighs.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to add too that assuming you've been ticked off for more serious issues (circulatory disorders, nerve issues and damage, being heavily deficient in something etc. - basically if the doctor has given you the all clear) - without being able to guarantee you of anything I probably couldn't be more confident that this is TMS based on limited information - I can't see how anything else (other than what I mentioned would be picked up by a doctor) could cause not only that type of symptom but also in different areas of the body, nothing else makes sense - if that resonates, then you have the belief to begin to challenge your reactions to symptoms and react better :)
 
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Jake said:
Thank you Adam!. To a degree I am a perfectionist But most of my stressors are not from that.
The reason I'm second guessing, is that in my past dealings with TMS. I listened to some of Dr Sarno's past speeches, and I was convinced that my symptoms were TMS and I fought hard not to give in to my symptoms. They went away mostly within a week.
I tried the same thing now, but it didn't go away. Maybe I had some relief for a short period of time, but it keeps coming back. I've been going to PT and I feel it helped only that now the paint shifted to my back. And then my thighs again.
To make matters worse a part of my head feels like I bumped it ( I didn't but when I press down on a certain area it hurts as if I bumped it). I had this in other areas of my head and all went away. I spoke to a neurologist and he didn't think I was describing anything serious Thank G-D! But it still bothers me! I wouldn't be surprised if that is also another manifestation of TMS. I'm actually wondering if anyone on this forum had anything like that.
So to sum up, all the modalities I used when I had other TMS issues. Don't seem to work now. And that is really getting me down!
Thanks for your support!
Click to expand...
hello Jake--I have TMJ, which causes me to clench under stress and my jaw to click. But I've learned many people have that and don't suffer like I do. I have pain in my body that moves from one side to another, jumps around to my neck, etc. But the absolute scariest for me is the head pain. WHen my entire right side flares, my right side head hurts and it causes me to feel off balance and downright dizzy at times. I've been doing this work for a couple of months now and several days ago, my right side flared again but this time my right side head hurt (almost like a headache) but I didn't experience that awful off balance/ dizzy feeling in it. I realized I didn't get myself in a panic over it and despite it still hurting (but it hurt more like a headache on that side), I didn't allow myself to bump it up to a dire emergency. And like today, my left side hurts and I can feel some sensation in the left side of head but it's not flaring like it did. SO what I've learned is if it's structural, it wouldn't come and go and leap from one side to another. I was always absolutely terrified when I felt that head pain, especially on the right side but I'm realizing if I don't panic, worry and focus on it, the pain isn't as bad as it used to be.
 
Thank you for all of your inputs! It does help to know that it still is probably all related to TMS.
As far as anxiety, I was diagnosed as having Anxiety disorder, and yes I tend to jump to worst case scenarios. Most of my stress lies in anxiety. I do take something for it and have in the past with good results, for some reason it's not working as before. Maybe I need to take a higher dose, but am apprehensive to do so. I think I might need to iron out some of my anxieties with a professional. But I am in the middle of this new book and what he writes makes sense. The book is called

Rewire Your Mind Without Willpower​

I hope to implement some of these suggestions.
Thanks again!
Jake
 
Patty Cakes said:
hello Jake--I have TMJ, which causes me to clench under stress and my jaw to click. But I've learned many people have that and don't suffer like I do. I have pain in my body that moves from one side to another, jumps around to my neck, etc. But the absolute scariest for me is the head pain. WHen my entire right side flares, my right side head hurts and it causes me to feel off balance and downright dizzy at times. I've been doing this work for a couple of months now and several days ago, my right side flared again but this time my right side head hurt (almost like a headache) but I didn't experience that awful off balance/ dizzy feeling in it. I realized I didn't get myself in a panic over it and despite it still hurting (but it hurt more like a headache on that side), I didn't allow myself to bump it up to a dire emergency. And like today, my left side hurts and I can feel some sensation in the left side of head but it's not flaring like it did. SO what I've learned is if it's structural, it wouldn't come and go and leap from one side to another. I was always absolutely terrified when I felt that head pain, especially on the right side but I'm realizing if I don't panic, worry and focus on it, the pain isn't as bad as it used to be.
Click to expand...
BTW perhaps some of your pain by your head is from the TMJ that you have. I know it jumps but maybe the initial pain was related to the TMJ and your anxiety caused it to spring up on the other side. Sometimes I view it in this way for myself.
 
Jake said:
BTW perhaps some of your pain by your head is from the TMJ that you have. I know it jumps but maybe the initial pain was related to the TMJ and your anxiety caused it to spring up on the other side. Sometimes I view it in this way for myself.
Click to expand...
Do u suffer from TMJ too? Yes, I know some of it is caused by my TMJ. I clench a lot, especially when stressed. I wake up with pain, Despite wearing a nightguard. But I've had TMJ for years and years but never had head pain. IT wasn't until I had pain going down the right or left side of my body, did I feel the head pain. I have a husband who's spent over 2 yrs in hospitals and rehabs, which has been very stressful. IT was then my pain got worse and started switching around and affecting my head. The head pain is the most scariest but in doing this work, I've noticed it's not as frightening as it was, in the last few days, when I didn't panic over it. I do believe my extreme anxiety caused the pain to shift from side to side and jump around my body. PErhaps the same is true for you. The head pain and especially feeling off balance and my panic over it, really made it ten times worse. Frustration is another thing that can flare it up too. DO u tend to clench, like me, when u worry or are stressed?
 
Patty Cakes said:
hello Jake--I have TMJ, which causes me to clench under stress and my jaw to click.
Click to expand...

Hi Patty, I think you need to get clear and I'm curious also as to what it means for you when you say you have TMJ. When someone says they have TMJ, they usually mean they have TMJD - temporomandibular joint dysfunction. The key question I think is if you had no pain, would you still consider yourself to have dysfunction?

I say that because plenty of people clench their jaw under stress (I looked up the most common place to clench under stress, the answer was jaw) - stress shows up in many other parts of our body too as tension, including the pelvic floor and shoulders (there's nothing wrong with this, it's normal). Many people's jaw also clicks (we have an example on this forum with Cactusflower, but there's no pain there). Both of these are common, but they often don't lead to pain.

If you would still consider your jaw to be dysfunctional even if you had no pain, then my argument kind of falls apart, but if you wouldn't (and you're only really saying it's dysfunction because it is supposedly leading to pain), then you don't really have TMJ or TMJD because those incidental findings aren't the cause of the pain (they are normal and aren't representative of dysfunction). By saying to yourself that you have TMJ, you're naming the cause of your pain, and no wonder you're terrified. if I was consistently telling myself that I had pelvic floor dysfunction (which I did tell myself for a while, and no surprise I didn't get that far during that time), but if I kept running that programming in my head, I never would have recovered because I never would have lowered the fear enough to react better to symptoms and to expand my activity (which ultimately leads to recovery, but that's very hard to do if you keep reinforcing to yourself that something is wrong with your body).

If you genuinely believe it is TMS and the evidence is there, I would drop the TMJ label completely (medical labels never help). You don't have TMJ, instead you have TMS manifesting as pain in the jaw. Just like I had TMS manifesting as pain in the pelvis (not pelvic floor dysfunction or pudendal neuralgia) :)
 
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