Feeling safe versus living without fear

M

music321

Well known member
Is feeling safe the same as not having fear? The reason I ask, is it seems although we can dispense with fear at a given time, it will always come back to us at some point in our lives, regarding something. Fear is a human emotion that can't be wished away. If you become fearful of something a year from now, such as losing a job, a cancer, diagnosis, etc., will our symptoms flare up again?

I have heard it said that bravery is persevering in spite of fear, but if it is the case that fear debilitates us, then I don't know what can be done.

Again, is living with a sense of safety the same as living without fear?
 
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As you said fear is a natural human response to danger. It is essential and important for our functioning as beings in this wonderful universe and cannot be removed from our lives.

I have often pondered this question too, especially with how much mindbody work is focussed on dialing down fear of symptoms. @JanAtheCPA says that you can recover from TMS but you are never cured. What does she mean by that?

It means that fear will arise, stress will arise, life will happen, and symptoms are likely to arise with these stressors. But the key is how we respond to the fear, stress, and symptoms. Can we keep clear-minded and respond with compassion and kindness to the uncomfortable sensation of fear? Can we know deeply that our symptoms are not causing us harm and not add extra fear of them onto an already stressful situation?

Or do we get caught in a never-ending spiral of what-ifs and catastrophising? Or trying to force the pain away with a variety of physical treatments? ... or any other action dictated by fear rather than as a wise response.

My versions of safety never means the removal of any emotions, feeling, pain - it is the perspective that I am safe with this and I will continue to live my life: I am safe even with this pain. I am safe even if I am feeling intense fear. I am safe even if my thoughts are spiralling and I feel out of control. I am safe even with the grief of losing my job. I am safe as life happens around me.

Georgia O'Keefe puts it in the best way that I know, "I've been absolutely terrified every moment of my life and I've never let it keep me from doing a single thing I wanted to do."
 
So, have your TMS symptoms ever returned in a debilitating way? Or, by using these techniques, have you kept it at Bay?

I have heard the symptoms being described as harmless. in a general sense I would agree. Right now, unemployed, sitting on a computer, my symptoms are not that important. Owning a business that could tank, putting an end to years of work, and having assets repossessed or having to stop working, or having a romantic partner leave me after a few months, as has happened before, are not harmless.

however, I kind of take your point. I suppose if I had a business that could fall apart as a result of TMS, or if another romantic partner were to leave me, that just is as it is. I suppose I should just try to accept this. Perhaps even by mentioning it here, I'm catastrophizing.

onto the second part,

I really don't understand what you mean regarding fear.

I have heard it said that if we have stressors in our life, the key to not developing, TMS is to not be stressed by these stressors. With this in mind, I tried not to be stressed out by various stressors, big and small. I realized that by doing this, I was not living without stress, I was simply suppressing it. I then read that the key to getting over TMS is not to live without stress. We must acknowledge that we will always have stressors, and that we must feel the stress associated with these stressors. It was said that stress is not the problem, the problem problem instead is how we react to the stress. If we react with fear, there will be a problem, if we live without fear, then there will not be a problem.

it seems what you're saying That the answer is not to live without stress, nor is it to live without fear. The answer is to WILL Functioning. It is simply to decide, in the face of terror, etc., that TMS is not going to be an obstacle, and to move forward with life. Is this what you're saying?

if so, it's simultaneously makes sense, and doesn't. It makes sense in that it's very straightforward. It also is in alignment with what the average late person would suggest, and has suggested to me on occasion. I've been told to simply make up my mind to start living my life normally, and do it perhaps this is the answer.

It doesn't make sense in that people say that one cannot "Push one's way through" TMS. Instead, one must surrender to it. Surrender seems to be the opposite of WILL.

perhaps the aspect of surrender comes in accepting the symptoms, and willing oneself to live life. As for not catastrophic,, I don't know what to make of this. Catastrophe is simultaneously a thought exercise, as well as the expression of fear as touched upon, we simply cannot eliminate fear.

Perhaps when it comes to catastrophe, fear cannot be eliminated. Perhaps the best we could do is consciously redirect, our thoughts away from getting into thought spirals in which we are thinking about negative outcomes constantly. If my TMS symptoms are flaring up, and I'm on the verge of going back into a nursing home, or having a romantic partner, leave me again, I don't think I could eliminate fear. Again, I guess what I'm getting it, is I'm not really sure what catastrophic is. If it involves fear, I don't know how we can eliminate it.

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it, as I appreciate the reply you made to another post of mine
 
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music321 said:
Perhaps the best we could do is consciously redirect, our thoughts away from getting into thought spirals in which we are thinking about negative outcomes constantly
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Hi, Music,
I’m sorry you’re in a scary place. That’s so hard! But the truth about mortality is we all are always in a scary place. We’re all fragile. We’re all on the brink of catastrophe, if we’re honest. The truth is, we can’t think about that. It’s like walking across a high wire tight rope. We’re acrobats and we can’t look down or we will fall.

For me, believing in God helps a lot with my fear. But I’m sure other spiritual practices can also help. I release my fears into God’s hands and then I do my best to trust and have faith.

Another thing to do (and I do this all the time!), is to say “that hasn’t happened yet.” If and when that happens, I’ll deal with whatever it is.

Some kind of meditation might help you right now. There are countless ones to choose from on YouTube. You could just close your eyes and listen to one and get some peace. Keep your nervous system calm.

Some how, some way, things will all be ok. Don’t let yourself spiral out of control. Stay in the present moment and do calm things. If you can look outside or sit outside, that helps too.

Big hug to you! ❤️
 
Diana-M said:
But the truth about mortality is we all are always in a scary place. We’re all fragile. We’re all on the brink of catastrophe, if we’re honest.
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I'm not. And I am honest about it. You just said...God is there. If you believe in a God. He's a protecting fellow.
 
I guess I meant—mortality itself is fragile. We can choose to fear it or not. Yes, I’m glad you have peace, dear @Sita ! You are my inspiration. ❤️
 
My husband is the most emotionally regulated person I’ve ever met. Opposites attract I guess and it’s something I needed in my life.

I asked him a couple months ago if he’s afraid of death and he said no. I asked why not? “Because it’s out of my control”. He is not religious.

I would argue he has minimal to 0 symptoms except a headache twice a year.

I talk to him about lot because there is so much I learn from him in how he responds to the things he fears. If it’s something in the future, his automatic response is “that’s a future thing to worry about”. I would say he lives in the moment 98% of the time. It’s amazing.

The point is, you can teach your brain safety around something you fear to remove symptoms or bring them down to where they don’t interfere. Any time I’m dealing with a flare or something new, I think to myself, what would my husband do? Accept it and move on.
 
music321 said:
Fear is a human emotion that can't be wished away.
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Personally, I do not give fear a ranking amongst emotions. I see fear as a survival mechanism, that is all. It is an impressively complex combination of neurological and physiological processes that are brought into play when the brain senses a stress. In the primitive wilderness, stress was not caused by very many things, and they were all literally physically harmful - therefore the brain was designed specifically to put the fear response in gear for fight or flight. Period. Fear, in our primitive brains, is the proper response to danger. To me, this is not an emotion. It's a mechanism.

The only problem we need to deal with today is the fact that the mechanism does not understand the non-dangerous nature of 99% of the things we stress about - those of us who are lucky enough to be living in physical safety, that is.

As I was pondering what IS an emotion to me, I realized that it is anything associated with attachment. I don't believe I've ever expressed this before, so bear with me as I explore it.

Attachment goes beyond mere survival. The way I'm using the word, it forms the quality of our survival. It can be negative, but I'm thinking of it as mostly positive. As in, I'm attached to the world, to other people, to pets, to animals and plants, to the beauty of nature and the creativity of humans, and many of those things create a feeling of enjoyment and fulfillment and of belonging.

Other things, especially the actions of certain humans against all of these things to which I am attached, bring me heartache and despair, and the associated stress causes fear, which in this case is ultimately the fear of loss.

When it comes to the negative emotions, I think we must look first at Loss. A much younger friend who is like a very close niece (who I've known since she was a teen) has been going through significant life changes which are all positive and going well, but she recently called to tell me she'd had an emotional breakdown over the weekend, that "... felt like I was grieving something, which doesn't make sense!" Until I asked if she was possibly grieving her former freedom, relative to her recent commitments and responsibilities. Bingo.

The deepest underlying emotions are frequently all about abandonment and isolation, but as my friend immediately recognized, there can also be grief over any loss of freedom or even about a lack of meaning in one's life.
 
music321 said:
So, have your TMS symptoms ever returned in a debilitating way? Or, by using these techniques, have you kept it at Bay?

I have heard the symptoms being described as harmless. in a general sense I would agree. Right now, unemployed, sitting on a computer, my symptoms are not that important. Owning a business that could tank, putting an end to years of work, and having assets repossessed or having to stop working, or having a romantic partner leave me after a few months, as has happened before, are not harmless.

however, I kind of take your point. I suppose if I had a business that could fall apart as a result of TMS, or if another romantic partner were to leave me, that just is as it is. I suppose I should just try to accept this. Perhaps even by mentioning it here, I'm catastrophizing.

onto the second part,

I really don't understand what you mean regarding fear.

I have heard it said that if we have stressors in our life, the key to not developing, TMS is to not be stressed by these stressors. With this in mind, I tried not to be stressed out by various stressors, big and small. I realized that by doing this, I was not living without stress, I was simply suppressing it. I then read that the key to getting over TMS is not to live without stress. We must acknowledge that we will always have stressors, and that we must feel the stress associated with these stressors. It was said that stress is not the problem, the problem problem instead is how we react to the stress. If we react with fear, there will be a problem, if we live without fear, then there will not be a problem.

it seems what you're saying That the answer is not to live without stress, nor is it to live without fear. The answer is to WILL Functioning. It is simply to decide, in the face of terror, etc., that TMS is not going to be an obstacle, and to move forward with life. Is this what you're saying?

if so, it's simultaneously makes sense, and doesn't. It makes sense in that it's very straightforward. It also is in alignment with what the average late person would suggest, and has suggested to me on occasion. I've been told to simply make up my mind to start living my life normally, and do it perhaps this is the answer.

It doesn't make sense in that people say that one cannot "Push one's way through" TMS. Instead, one must surrender to it. Surrender seems to be the opposite of WILL.

perhaps the aspect of surrender comes in accepting the symptoms, and willing oneself to live life. As for not catastrophic,, I don't know what to make of this. Catastrophe is simultaneously a thought exercise, as well as the expression of fear as touched upon, we simply cannot eliminate fear.

Perhaps when it comes to catastrophe, fear cannot be eliminated. Perhaps the best we could do is consciously redirect, our thoughts away from getting into thought spirals in which we are thinking about negative outcomes constantly. If my TMS symptoms are flaring up, and I'm on the verge of going back into a nursing home, or having a romantic partner, leave me again, I don't think I could eliminate fear. Again, I guess what I'm getting it, is I'm not really sure what catastrophic is. If it involves fear, I don't know how we can eliminate it.

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it, as I appreciate the reply you made to another post of mine
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Various symptoms have arisen and fallen over the last few years with varying intensity which I see as completely normal. That is part of being a human - I don't know anyone who doesn't manifest some TMS here and there especially when feeling under the proverbial stress/emotional cosh.

For me, mindful acceptance, getting to emotions that are caused by early abandonment and fear of loss (as Jan put wisely above), and lots of reminders that any symptom is safe have allowed total freedom in action and being. My life was smaller than a door mouse when I found this work and now it feels like the ocean.

I am never an advocate for pushing stuff away as it adds huge amounts of resistance which builds up the repression into our already overloaded systems. You mentioned in your post, "perhaps the aspect of surrender comes in accepting the symptoms, and willing oneself to live life." This feels like where the paradoxical concepts of surrender and will find balance. TMS work involves acceptance of what you are feeling, whatever it is, and then accepting it is TMS. The second acceptance allows the symptoms/fear/obsessive thoughts not to stop action as you see through the illusion that you are in real danger.

So in terms of fear and stress, I see them as natural processes that once accepted don't have to be a hindrance to living a full and beautiful life. Learning how to accept them as see through the fact that a lot of our fear is generated by thoughts and likely a little scared child inside rather than what is happening in the present moment is liberating.

There is a buddhist story that illuminates the fact that lots of our fear is from thoughts, mis-perception, or old wounding.

“There was a hermit monk living in a cave in the mountains of Japan.
He was a talented artist, and over time he painted a picture of a tiger on the wall of the cave. He was extremely meticulous in his work, and it took him several years to finish. When it was finally done, the tiger was so realistic that when he looked at it he became frightened.” - Joseph Goldstein

This really illuminates for me how many of the things I perceive to be a catastrophe e.g. my business failing, romatic partner leaving are painful however, they are a painted tiger. They don't truly exist right now and even if they do happen I know that I will hurt emotionally and move on.

I hope this was helpful!
 
music321 said:
Fear is a human emotion that can't be wished away.
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Every now and then you see someone say you shouldn't fear the symptoms since they're caused by your brain. I honestly don't find this advice very useful, you can't avoid being human. Even knowing it's a mindbody condition there's the fear of pain itself, the anxiety about how you're gonna react during the day, the fear of this journey taking too long or not healing at all and so on...

I think it's way more therapeutic, when you've got time, if you sit with the fear and let it be felt in your body. You don't try to rationalize, understand or brush it away. You just feel the energy. And then you get to know you can be safe even with the presence of fear.
 
Sita said:
Yes, I like this. By the way...great husband!
(Mine is the same, very very cool under any circumstances, even war like conditions and I'm not exaggerating here. I guess some people are like this, very very strong mentally. I want to be like him.)
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Yes Sita exactly! Mine is cool as a cucumber too. I grew up in a household that argued constantly, so much loudness, rarely any quiet. I feel blessed to live in my bubble with just my husband and my dogs because it's just what my body/soul/brain needed to finally heal.

When I first moved in with my husband many years ago it was very jarring to me how he never argued, never yelled, just total complete opposite of what I grew up dealing with, that my brain was like "hey what's going on? this feels dangerous, there's nothing going on, let's start a fight about something".

Now I protect my peace, protect my husband.

Another example from the other day when I asked him a question that was on my mind because it's something that would make me panic in the past:

"Do you ever get bored/don't find excitement with your hobbies and it freaks you out"?
"Yes, of course, but I'll switch to something different, or even do it anyway because I'll still enjoy it even if it doesn't give me that spark at the moment."
"Do you worry about it?"
"No, because it will pass"

Talking to someone really helps. This made me feel loads better and made me realize that I don't need to panic about something like this. I can accept it and move on.
 
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HealingMe said:
there's nothing going on, let's start a fight about something".
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lol! I get it. I grew up in total chaos. And I hate when people yell. My husband grew up the same way. And we have never yelled because of it. (I wish I could say either of us is calm, though!):eek:
 
I understand. I had a happy childhood at home/family/friends but outside was the chaos (communism). I want peace, quiet, and some boring time. I love my boring time, ha ha! Just think about it...children need boring time so they can get creative. Their brains develop like this. If you fill their time with lots of activities and they never have boring time...their imagination is zero. What a sad sad thing.

So, my greatest creative ideas come to me when I'm bored and vegetate with my mind in a state of amoeba.
 
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