A desperate update, opinions appreciated

[JanAtheCPA]

Dang, @RogueWave, this is really timely from my point of view, as I was just writing about mindset in another thread.

So we had to fix people through helping them strengthen their will.

You know, I ALWAYS end up tiptoeing around this concept, because it feels so judgey to pronounce that anyone should be able to use that old trope of "will power" to change their life. Yet that's what we keep coming back to, isn't it? The only way to change our mindset is to mindfully fight the incredibly strong, inbred, survival-at-all costs urge to interpret every experience with a negative and threat-based lens.

In the end, it requires nothing more or less than will power.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

And oh, yes - this is a brilliant condensation of the brick wall we see here so often:

He also talked about the two types of minds that were most susceptible to TMS symptoms: One being the ‘romantic’ mind, and the other being the ‘intellectual’ (and a third one that was just a combination of those two).
Simply put, the romantic mind overdramaticizes symptoms, and the intellectual mind overanalyzes them.

 

[RogueWave]

Dang, @RogueWave, this is really timely from my point of view, as I was just writing about mindset in another thread.

You know, I ALWAYS end up tiptoeing around this concept, because it feels so judgey to pronounce that anyone should be able to use that old trope of "will power" to change their life. Yet that's what we keep coming back to, isn't it? The only way to change our mindset is to mindfully fight the incredibly strong, inbred, survival-at-all costs urge to interpret every experience with a negative and threat-based lens.

In the end, it requires nothing more or less than will power.

Agreed! And the will can be trained like a muscle. And if it’s something we can strengthen it, that means healing is possible.

 

[warren23]

With that mindset you definitely will! I know it’s an older book and the language is somewhat boring, but when I was going through the worst of my TMS symptoms ‘Mental Health Through Will Training’ became my Bible. I really dislike the first read through, but as I reviewed parts that resonated with me, I ended up underlining almost the entire thing.

Dr Lowe Didn’t have the luxury of Modern counseling method or Most of the drugs that are available today, So we had to fix people through helping them strengthen their will.

He has an entire chapter dedicated to the ‘inevitable relapse’ of symptoms if you’re interested.

He also talked about the two types of minds that were most susceptible to TMS symptoms: One being the ‘romantic’ mind, and the other being the ‘intellectual’ (and a third one that was just a combination of those two).

Simply put, the romantic mind overdramaticizes symptoms, and the intellectual mind overanalyzes them. In both instances, the end result is that the body dumps more stress hormones into the system because it is perceiving the symptoms to be a huge threat, and it is simply responding accordingly. That’s the real ‘funny’ thing about TMS. The survival mechanism is actually doing what it’s supposed to do…it’s just responding to the intensity of perceived threats. But it stays turned on because we do not consciously interject, and therefore allow fear to run the whole thing, which results in the constant dumping of stress hormones into the system, ultiamtely creating and keeping symptoms around.

RogueWave - (great name, BTW!). How important to do you think processing childhood traumas is to recovery from TMS? Lots of differing opinions in the TMS community about this issue.

 

[RogueWave]

RogueWave - (great name, BTW!). How important to do you think processing childhood traumas is to recovery from TMS? Lots of differing opinions in the TMS community about this issue.

Thanks! I think that’s an individual consideration, but in most cases it probably isn’t necessary.

CBT has been on of the most successful therapies ever, and it gives very little consideration to childhood traumas, complexes, etc.

The main mechanic seems to be for the conscious mind to stop fearing symptoms, and eventually the subconscious accepts this idea, regardless of childhood trauma.

I don’t think I’ve ever had a patient who healed their TMS do any such therapies.

 

[warren23]

Thanks! I think that’s an individual consideration, but in most cases it probably isn’t necessary.

CBT has been on of the most successful therapies ever, and it gives very little consideration to childhood traumas, complexes, etc.

The main mechanic seems to be for the conscious mind to stop fearing symptoms, and eventually the subconscious accepts this idea, regardless of childhood trauma.

I don’t think I’ve ever had a patient who healed their TMS do any such therapies.

RogueWave - Does this include EMDR, which does address childhood trauma?

 

[Kozas]

He also talked about the two types of minds that were most susceptible to TMS symptoms: One being the ‘romantic’ mind, and the other being the ‘intellectual’ (and a third one that was just a combination of those two).

Haha, I'm 100% the third one, without any doubt I'm combination of "romantizing" my symptoms (and past!) and over-thinking. Good thing that the older I get, the less I get stressed about things and that part of my brain that is like "the Dude" from Big Lebowski gets bigger. I was so anxious in my teens, 20's and even early 30's, now I see that one should live their life insted of stressing constantly about it.
I've heard many good things about "‘Mental Health Through Will Training’", thanks about reminding me about it. I most definitely gonna read it, although it seems it's gonna be a challenge to find a copy. It was never translated to my mother tongue, and it's impossible to find physical copy. I'm limited to pdf I quess.

 

[RogueWave]

RogueWave - Does this include EMDR, which does address childhood trauma?

I have seen some success with that as far as overall quality of life goes, but I have also seen it occasionally make patients emotionally worse. It seems like it’s too strong for some people, depending on where they are ‘at.’

But I tell everyone the same thing: Do what works for you! TMS treatment is largely knowledge itself, but practices and techniques like tapping/EFT, EMDR, NLP etc can definitely potentially ease symptoms.

I just haven’t seen any amazing successes with EMDR treating the pain of TMS specifically. But that doesn’t mean it’s not possible!

 

[warren23]

Thanks! I think that’s an individual consideration, but in most cases it probably isn’t necessary.

CBT has been on of the most successful therapies ever, and it gives very little consideration to childhood traumas, complexes, etc.

The main mechanic seems to be for the conscious mind to stop fearing symptoms, and eventually the subconscious accepts this idea, regardless of childhood trauma.

I don’t think I’ve ever had a patient who healed their TMS do any such therapies.

RogueWave - in addition to “The main mechanic seems to be for the conscious mind to stop fearing symptoms, and eventually the subconscious accepts this idea, regardless of childhood trauma”, is there anything else you have seen reduce symptoms? How about painkillers or an epidural?

Charlie Merrill, the PT I mentioned, suggested the brain could cause inflammation of the sciatic nerve, which could mean an epidural might temporarily help. I had an epidural last August which really seemed to help for about 3 months. My pain level went down to a 3-4 from 6-8 before the procedure. Maybe it was just a placebo, because a 2nd one in December, 2025 did nothing.

 

[RogueWave]

RogueWave - in addition to “The main mechanic seems to be for the conscious mind to stop fearing symptoms, and eventually the subconscious accepts this idea, regardless of childhood trauma”, is there anything else you have seen reduce symptoms? How about painkillers or an epidural?

Charlie Merrill, the PT I mentioned, suggested the brain could cause inflammation of the sciatic nerve, which could mean an epidural might temporarily help. I had an epidural last August which really seemed to help for about 3 months. My pain level went down to a 3-4 from 6-8 before the procedure. Maybe it was just a placebo, because a 2nd one in December, 2025 did nothing.

Thats a very common response to most shots. The first one seems to have the best effect, with quickly diminishing returns after that.

Yes, there are many things, like painkillers, acupuncture (from someone with experience!), EFT/tapping, self-hypnosis, ice, infrared saunas, etc. it’s never a one size fits all approach, which is why I encourage patients to try a few things out to see what works for them.

But it should always be kept in mind that the majority of these things are symptom relief in the shorter term. They can be very helpful, but usually are not the means to ultimate healing if the root cause is actually TMS.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

deleted

Moderator here, reminding participants that this is not a forum for discussing detailed medical interventions. Please stay on topic in public!

 

[warren23]

Moderator here, reminding participants that this is not a forum for discussing detailed medical interventions. Please stay on topic in public!

Understand and deleted.

 

[Duggit]

CBT has been on of the most successful therapies ever, and it gives very little consideration to childhood traumas, complexes, etc.

Dr. Schubiner provides a different view in his new book Unlearn Your Pain: The Science of Recovering from Chronic Pain, Fatigue, Anxiety, and Depression at pages 254-57. Here is a snippet:

"Studies using CBT for chronic pain did show benefit in coping with pain, but found relatively little benefit in actually reducing pain. In fact, in studies using CBT for chronic pain in comparison to treatment as usual, the average reduction in pain was only 1/2 of 1 point on a 10-point pain-rating scale. That's not a lot of pain reduction. And the long-term efficacy of CBT for pain tends to reduce over time."
​

To support these statements, Schubiner cited studies published in three prominent medical journals and a Chochrane Database of Systematic Reviews.

 

[RogueWave]

Dr. Schubiner provides a different view in his new book Unlearn Your Pain: The Science of Recovering from Chronic Pain, Fatigue, Anxiety, and Depression at pages 254-57. Here is a snippet:

"Studies using CBT for chronic pain did show benefit in coping with pain, but found relatively little benefit in actually reducing pain. In fact, in studies using CBT for chronic pain in comparison to treatment as usual, the average reduction in pain was only 1/2 of 1 point on a 10-point pain-rating scale. That's not a lot of pain reduction. And the long-term efficacy of CBT for pain tends to reduce over time."
​

To support these statements, Schubiner cited studies published in three prominent medical journals and a Chochrane Database of Systematic Reviews.

Thank you for clarifying! I did not mean that CBT is one of the most successful therapies for TMS, I meant that CBT is considered one of the most successful therapies for emotional issues in general.

I stated this because the question was asked if all emotional traumas need to be revisited for TMS symptoms to resolve, my experience (up to this point) is that in most cases they do not. CBT has also been one of the most successful therapies in general without specifically addressing childhood trauma, complexes, etc.