1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this link: http://go.tmswiki.org/newprogram
    Dismiss Notice

Fred Amir's Rapid Recovery - discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Moose, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. Moose

    Moose Peer Supporter

    Hi all,

    I've just read Fred Amir's book Rapid recovery from back and neck pain, and I was interested in people's thoughts on it. I thought the idea of rewards such as icecream for when your subconscious cooperates is really interesting. However, I've had a bit of trouble implementing his ideas. In his book, he says to reward yourself whenever you reach a goal such as sitting for 30 minutes.

    My problem* is that I'm already at the stage where I'm using my hands for pretty much everything I want/need to (my TMS is/was masquerading mostly as RSI), which includes working at a computer full time. However, I'm not by any stretch of the imagination pain-free yet. Therefore, it's no good me saying to myself 'I'll reward myself if I can use a computer for 30 minutes' or whatever because I already am. What I could say is 'I'll reward myself if I use a computer PAIN FREE for 30 minutes', however I think there are a couple of problems with this approach. One: I'm focusing on the pain itself, and I've been doing a lot of work to try and stop this. And two: 'pain free' is actually kinda hard to define. What if I experience a big reduction in pain but still get the odd twinge? What if the pain shifts to a different area? Does this count as success? I don't want to inappropriately reward (or punish) my subconscious. It seems like a grey area. (I dread to think what I'd be like if I had kids!)

    Anyway, I'm really interested to hear other people's thoughts on this and how it fits in to the general TMS recovery ideas.

    *Not actually a problem ;)
     
    Forest likes this.
  2. AndrewMillerMFT

    AndrewMillerMFT Well known member

    Hi Moose,

    I have read Fred's books and enjoy his thoughts on TMS. I think there's a lot of merit in rewarding yourself but probably differ a bit in looking at it from Fred. Many TMS patients have over active super-egos or "parents" - as Sarno called them - in there mind. Often I think rewarding ourselves is a great way to break the perfectionistic/low-self-worth/hard on ourselves cycle. I would consider looking at a reward system untethered to pain and time and see how that feels. What would it be like to do something kind and compassionate for yourself unrelated to TMS? How would it feel to instead reward yourself in relation to your emotional life - such as after having a poor interaction with a spouse or co-worker where you may be unnecessarily hard on yourself?
     
    Forest likes this.
  3. Moose

    Moose Peer Supporter

    Hmm, I think rewarding myself based on my emotional behaviour is a good idea Andrew, thanks. However, I don't think I should reward (or console) myself after I've been hard on myself or had a poor interaction, because then there's a danger that I'm reinforcing negative behaviour. Instead, I might try rewarding myself for being kind to myself. I need to have a think as to how best to do this. I am having trouble coming up with good rewards (other than icecream!) which Fred Amir says a lot of people struggle with in his book - and it just highlights the real need for me to have some rewards and positive things to look forward to in my life! I need to think of some nice rewards (that don't cost much money)...
     
  4. AndrewMillerMFT

    AndrewMillerMFT Well known member

    A good idea is to ask yourself: what is the more compassionate way to treat myself right now? What would be the more loving thing to do for myself right now?
     
  5. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Moose, thanks for starting this thread. It sounds like you already are familiar with the concept of "reinforcement," but for anyone interested in this, we have a pretty deep thread about how this type of reinforcement might relate to the unconscious mind's distraction strategy in TMS:
    http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/behaviorism-conditioning-and-breaking-the-pain-cycle.2200/

    It's a very deep thread, but it might dovetail nicely with Amir's work. I'd be curious as to what you think.

    Speaking of Amir's work, this might be a great place to use our search engine at http://search.tmswiki.org/ . When I plugged amir's last name in I got quite a few results, including several threads about this by other people who had used the approach.
    When I searched for amir
    http://search.tmswiki.org/results.html?q=amir
    When I searched for amir reward:
    http://search.tmswiki.org/results.html?q=amir+reward

    Hope this helps. Please let us know if you take a look and find anything useful. By linking to it here, you can help us let the cream rise to the top.
     
  6. Moose

    Moose Peer Supporter

    Hi Forrest, thanks for your reply (and sorry for the delay in replying, I've been away!). I will check out those links and report back :)
     
  7. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Moose) I've just read Fred Amir's book Rapid recovery from back and neck pain, and I was interested in people's thoughts on it. I thought the idea of rewards such as icecream for when your subconscious cooperates is really interesting. However, I've had a bit of trouble implementing his ideas. In his book, he says to reward yourself whenever you reach a goal such as sitting for 30 minutes.

    Eric) id say reward yourself with how you give yourself a paat on the back when you reach a milestone
    you deserve a pet now for being able to use your hands most of the time now- that shows great direction that your own the road to recovery

    Moose) My problem* is that I'm already at the stage where I'm using my hands for pretty much everything I want/need to (my TMS is/was masquerading mostly as RSI), which includes working at a computer full time. However, I'm not by any stretch of the imagination pain-free yet. Therefore, it's no good me saying to myself 'I'll reward myself if I can use a computer for 30 minutes' or whatever because I already am.

    Eric) Again, You have made good progress, so smile and know the best is yet to come, think as its already done is a powerful tool in helping your mind self direct to your intended outcome

    Moose) What I could say is 'I'll reward myself if I use a computer PAIN FREE for 30 minutes', however I think there are a couple of problems with this approach. One: I'm focusing on the pain itself, and I've been doing a lot of work to try and stop this.

    Eric) keep doing the work on loosing the focus, only till you loose that focus will keep moving ahead- learn all you can to win in this area so you can recover

    Mooses) And two: 'pain free' is actually kinda hard to define. What if I experience a big reduction in pain but still get the odd twinge?

    Eric) you will always get odd twinges cause were human (Organic) but when you loose the fear of that thought and loose the focus on the pain or recurrence of the pain you will make a landslide to a healing

    Moose) What if the pain shifts to a different area?

    Eric) it can and it does, when my pain shifted I knew I had it on the run so I stated course and yep shore enough I won the battle and the war


    Moose) Does this count as success?

    Eric) its called the symptom imperative and after you get it on the run and start to win over in those other autonomic areas you will slowly and surly heal up after all the homework's done ya know- you have lots to be proud for, you got it moving and that's when it knows were on to it ( the mechanism) and then in time with patience we heal little by little till you feel like you did before you hurt- the severity of the tms pain will leave and we keep it gone with daily practice for 30 minutes or so... ya know- and yes again (sorry for the repetitions) it is significant Success ....


    Moose) I don't want to inappropriately reward (or punish) my subconscious. It seems like a grey area. (I dread to think what I'd be like if I had kids!)

    Eric) I really believe Fred means the reward system will give your mind a thought line that when you get those improvements it will begin to produce more improvements to seek more rewards but the downside is if your not interested in it -it wont be as beneficial so create your own thoughts for an outcome reward and reap the benefits

    Moose) Anyway, I'm really interested to hear other people's thoughts on this and how it fits in to the general TMS recovery ideas.

    Eric) it fits right in, although I never did a reward system with ice cream - the joy and happiness I got from steady improvements was my reward ya know
    have a great day moose and keep us up to date on your journey

    *Not actually a problem ;)
     
  8. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I finally got the raw guts up last week to reward myself on my B-day with a Nikkor 10-24mm F/3.5-4 wide angle zoom lens & now I'm going up to Yosemite to use it. Doesn't matter that I can't afford it (in my head, but I really can easily). Only thing that stopped me was standing up to that nagging superego Inner Bully that Alan Gordon talks about. Sure feels good! Why be hard on yourself when you don't really have to? Life is brief, time flies (tempus fugit). Unfortunately, I notice I had to agonize for three months before I could make the purchase. Only now I really do have it. Name that tune. Let's all fiddle while Rome burns.

    Just kidding, Eric. But just think about all the times you didn't do something good for yourself because you felt guilty and paralyzed? More harm than good being uptight.
     
    eric watson likes this.
  9. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    yea I know bruce, I used to be the worst at beating myself up with the super-ego
    that's why I write so much on hope and healing cause of all the years I didn't have a thought that I actually
    could start to retrain my brain for more blessed outcomes
    and with the Success story sounds like your obtaining it gives me more hope that the good will
    always build our time- and doubt will only erase our freedom ya know
    all the years I sowed doubt Bruce MC cause I couldn't see it with my eyes it could not be
    and all the knowledge id learned in the ministry and the healings I saw by mine and other peoples faith was astonishing
    and yet I still had this doubt for my own healing till I heard an MD say it was possible
    I hate knowing I doubted all that time and I could have been better years ago
    but you and I know - all our suffering was for a reason we just have to see that reason as it crawls to us
    nice to hear your Winnings at the TMS healing school are paying off
     
  10. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Funny, how, if you're suffering from low self-esteem, one critical word out of somebody can activate the inner bully so that he'll go after you again and again against all reason. That's why you can't blink or doubt yourself for an instant.
     
  11. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    man bruce your so write- a ton of awareness to be acknowleged there
    it happens so fast- then like for days your trapped and wondering what happened
     
  12. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yet if you're really strong in yourself, Eric, and engaged in what you're up to and about, it would never get to you. I guess you let your guard down when someone and/or something messes with your trip, like those major traumatic life events that alter your fundamental psychology. That's why TMS comes on and stays following a death-in-the-family, a divorce, loss of income, or sometimes even after a minor traffic accident. Things that shock you out of your old frame of reference.
     
  13. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    that's some great words there BruceMC,
    its sorta like a fish outta the water, it looks like its nothing-
    it cant fight or even pick a blade of grass up
    but when you put it back in the water
    its genius becomes and there's not 1 person (worry) that can slow it down or even compete-
    although id really like to see a real worry free life, I mean like total serenity all the time
    I don't think that's possible all the time, although I do think that's a great goal to strive for
    why else would we have the yin and yang if we weren't supposed to be balanced with the good and bad
    I do think were supposed to be able to handle the bad though in better ways than I have in the past
    learning to handle that rage and keep it obtained with a lid of hope- loose enough to let the negative energy out as needed is great
    there's a time for peace and war, I think we have to just keep that balance as the universe is balanced ya know
    ah, the joy of living Bruce, it really gives us lots to think about
     
  14. KathyBee

    KathyBee Peer Supporter

    I was thinking of the idea of rewards.
    I considering going down the inner child route with this. Maybe because a lot of this stuff seems to be linked back to childhood issues for me.
    There is a part of The Pain Deception where it says to think like a child when you are thinking about what is bothering you. So the first thing my inner child/id comes up with is not getting enough toys when she was little. o_O Because there were a lot worse things than that going on during my childhood, in my adult opinion.
    There was a bit of dysfunction in our family growing up. One part of it was that some members of the family got stuff whenever they wanted it where other members (like me) were almost always told "we could not afford it" where we wanted something, even it was just some cheap toy. So there is a lot of psychological baggage that goes with the whole not getting enough toys.
    So I am thinking of rewarding myself with stickers or other things liked, or would have liked as a child.
     
  15. Moose

    Moose Peer Supporter

    Hi Kathy, that sounds like a great idea -rewarding yourself with something you like as a child, while consciously telling yourself that you deserve it and don't have to feel guilty about it :)
     
  16. Walt Oleksy

    Walt Oleksy Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Bruce and all.

    I recently posted this on low self-esteem:


    Low Self-Esteem


    Dr. Gordon says in his TMS Recovery Program that low self-esteem is one of the major reasons why many of us have pain caused by our repressed emotions. Something(s) that happened to us in our childhood or later, for which we should not blame ourselves, developed into a bad case of not liking ourselves. A girl or boy who had been sexually abused can carry a feeling of guilt into adulthood, although they were merely innocent victims of a predator.

    In my case, being unable to deal with providing elder care for my mother after nearly two years left me with a lot of guilt. I also had felt rejection earlier from both her and my father. I felt they loved me but never got even a hug from either of them, and my older brother used me as a punching bag. I thought I had buried those feelings forever by keeping busy, but they finally surfaced into back pain. Now I think I’ve convinced myself and my subconscious mind that I forgive them and myself.

    You can look into your own life for reasons why you may harbor feelings of low self-esteem, but it may help to know you are not alone and even the beautiful and rich can have such feelings that became destructive to them. Misery, they say, loves company.

    One case in point is the actor, William Holden. You’d have thought he had it all… great good looks, physical health, great wealth, fame and a movie idol to countless women and teenage girls. He didn’t. He became a heavy drinker that cost him his life, and reading his biography it appears that how he looked at himself, as no one he liked, caused the psychological pain that led to drinking and his death.

    Holden grew up in Pasadena, California, his father wanting him to work in his chemical analysis company. Holden studied chemistry in college but it didn’t grab him so he turned to acting. His mother was a school teacher whom he worshipped, but although he tried and tried, he could never
    quite live up to the sweet and obedient boy she wanted him to be.

    Holden always tried to do the right thing his mother wanted, but sometimes veered off on “danger kicks,” such as taking a dare from other 16-year-old friends to walk along the outer rail of a railroad structure known as “SuicideBridge,” ignoring the 190-foot drop below.

    His big movie chance came when he was 21, playing a boy whose father wants him to become a concert violinist, but he prefers the faster route to money by becoming a boxer. The movie was “Golden Boy” in 1939 but he felt he wasn’t good enough in the rehearsals so he wanted to drop out. Low self-esteem? Probably. Barbara Stanwyck took him under her wing and coached him, encouraging him that he could play the part and do a good job. He did and it launched his movie career.

    He went on to become one of Hollywood’s biggest and richest actors but needed alcohol to get though a day’s work in his films. He was one of the very few whose dressing room on a set included a bar, for the martinis he craved and which he said helped him to relax.

    One of his biggest hits was “Picnic” (1955), but when he attended the director Joshua Logan’s production party afterward, he drank some strong martinis and then climbed onto the window ledge of the hotel suite which was 14 floors above ground, and everyone held their breath as he stood there. He later did the same thing at a party given by his co-star in the film, Rosalind Russell, drinking heavily and then climbing out a window to stand on a ledge many floors above the ground.

    Russell said he was a lucky man, until his luck ran out late in 1981 when, after having too many drinks, he tripped on a rug, struck his head on a table, and died of head injuries.

    A friend said about Holden: “He is in constant revolt against authority and his family and against everything. He lived his boyhood in a straightjacket. He has a deep yearning to be let alone and not have to prove anything. He detests the challenges and trappings of society. That’s why he travels abroad so much… Africa, Hong Kong, a long way away from the movies and his father’s chemical analysis business.”

    So it seems “Golden Boy” William Holden had a lot of repressed emotions, including low self-esteem coming from his boyhood and not being able to please his mother enough or his father at all.

    I tried to be the perfect boy when I was growing up.
    I had no idea what pressure that put on me. I often fell short
    of what I thought was needed of me. But I actually accomplished much more in my life as a writer than I ever imagined I would.

    A list of my published books is at my web site:
    www.walteroleksybooks.com. And at age 83, I’m still writing. To please myself, not editors or the market place. For an
    example, I refuse to write about vampires, although today
    that’s where the big money is.
    Abraham Lincoln put it this way: “You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”


    Shakespeare said, in Hamlet, “To thine own self be true.”
    Today it means that you are healthier and happier when you
    act according to your own person convictions and beliefs
    rather than acting to please others.

    It seems best to please yourself. Forgive yourself. Like yourself. Think about what you’ve done or are doing now that
    deserves a pat on the back. It may be something you accomplished at school or work, or just a kindness you did for
    someone.

    If we raise our self-esteem, we lower the pain that
    comes from just that one repressed emotion.
     
  17. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Walt your a genious
     

Share This Page