Most of the information I read online about psychosomatic pain these days all leans toward NPP instead of the teachings and research of Dr. Sarno. I’m confused because this new NPP model doesn’t deal with the subconscious mind and the rage and fear that exist therein. I have come back to the forum after dealing with horrible “sciatica” for 8 years - finally ready to admit that the pain is caused by my brain. I always found it really believable that the rage, resentment, childhood trauma and other issues in my subconscious were the cause of my pain issues. It seems oversimplified to now be told that I just need to learn to deal with fear. I will read Alan Gordon’s work as well as Dr. Schubiner. Maybe it will all start to make sense to me. Anyway - good to be back where I know I meed to be.
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Where did TMS Go?
- Thread starter jhc1013
- Start date
Cactusflower
Beloved Grand Eagle
I think this is a concern for many of us. I’m also concerned that people think this is a “one and done” thing because of it.
Why this approach? I think they are offering something more palatable. They are simply trying to help more folks including the types of folks who would reject Sarno.
Why this approach? I think they are offering something more palatable. They are simply trying to help more folks including the types of folks who would reject Sarno.
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
Yes, @jhc1013, I agree with Cactusflower. Fortunately, Dr Sarno's teachings are alive and well on this forum. There's a lot of great updated neurological information that Dr Sarno did not have access to in his day, and many of the us have updated a few things that were part of his theories back when, but we still adhere to the essence of the rage/repression concept. Two of my favorite authorities do as well, one of them being Nicole Sachs LCSW, who worked with Dr Sarno in her early days. The other one is Gabor Mate MD, who is even more radical about the role of long term emotional repression in physiological manifestations of dis-ease and distress.
Baseball65
Beloved Grand Eagle
That is the ONLY thing I believe. I always throw Guilt and Shame in with the Rage, but most of those create ANGER so I suppose it's all one Ball of.....Bad Juju?
I have gotten little strategy tips for dealing with acute attacks here and there, but for the most part (as you guys well know) I am a Sarno Fundamentalist. RE-conditioning myself w/o addressing the underlying 'cause' seems a little silly.
I don’t disagree. However, I have a friend who has been dealing with “sciatica” for 3 years now. Is currently taking high dose Gabapentin since that is all the rage these days as a painkiller. So I asked myself, do I give her a copy of The Way Out, or Healing Back Pain. The Way Out simply says “your pain is caused by fear”. Sarno’s book says fear is part if the equation but there is much more that causes the pain in the first place. I personally found Alan Gordon’s work to be too simplistic and difficult for many to grasp as the cause of so much trauma. It’s an interesting dilemma. Thanks for your response!
If it were me I'd give them a copy of both books (although I agree with you about Gordon's book and much prefer Dan Buglio's book "Pain Free You" because it had far more 'light bulb' moments for me) and explain to them that either or both reasons could be causing their symptoms. (I'd also refer them to this Wiki and its forums so that they can do what you are doing for yourself.) I floundered around for years wondering why I felt only somewhat better with Sarno's approach; it wasn't until I realised that both reasons were at play in my case that I made a huge amount of progress. You've only got to read the success stories on the success stories forum to see that I'm not alone in that experience, and that for some Sarno worked and for others a Gordon type approach worked.
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HealingMe
Beloved Grand Eagle
I really like the responses from Plum in this thread about rage and fear.
https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/rage-vs-fear.21494/ (rage vs fear)
https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/rage-vs-fear.21494/ (rage vs fear)
Cactusflower
Beloved Grand Eagle
you might try Nicole Sach’s new book - it tries to simply encompass all.
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
I am one of Nicole’s biggest fans, but if Healing Back Pain is the book that got you started, then that's the book to give your friend. You can tell her it's a starting point, and there are resources with more updated guidance, but that Dr Sarno is the place to start - I would say precisely because his message is simple to comprehend if the mind is ready to receive it.
Great way to look at this issue, and I tend to agree with you. It’s one thing to say…”fear is what is causing your pain - and it’s the pain you are afraid of.” It’s another to say “you have repressed rage, anger, fear and trauma that may be the reason your mind is trying to distract you with pain. Then you become fearful that the pain won’t cease or, if it goes away, it will return”. Thanks for the great response. Jim
Diana-M
Beloved Grand Eagle
I look at it like this: it’s both.
Most people who have TMS had childhood trauma. Childhood trauma (neglect, big T, little t) causes an extremely anxious nervous system for a lifetime, unless you do something about it. In the meantime, you also have subconscious rage from your childhood—and it’s ongoing, because you never learned to deal with emotions. The rage bubbles over and you get full-blown TMS. So now you have rage and anxiety—(and of course, anxiety is fear).
So to me, it’s just splitting hairs. It’s all the same. Most people have to tackle both issues: rage and fear on an ongoing basis. If you don’t have to, you’re one of the lucky few, in my humble opinion.
If somebody just goes the fear angle and gets rid of TMS— It will probably come back and then they’ll have to tackle the rage angle.
Most people who have TMS had childhood trauma. Childhood trauma (neglect, big T, little t) causes an extremely anxious nervous system for a lifetime, unless you do something about it. In the meantime, you also have subconscious rage from your childhood—and it’s ongoing, because you never learned to deal with emotions. The rage bubbles over and you get full-blown TMS. So now you have rage and anxiety—(and of course, anxiety is fear).
So to me, it’s just splitting hairs. It’s all the same. Most people have to tackle both issues: rage and fear on an ongoing basis. If you don’t have to, you’re one of the lucky few, in my humble opinion.
If somebody just goes the fear angle and gets rid of TMS— It will probably come back and then they’ll have to tackle the rage angle.
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Agreed. I was sexually abused as a young boy. Lots of men face this but never really deal with the consequences of the trauma. "Somatic Tracking" may deal with my "sciatica" pain but, as you say, it will come back if I don't deal with the issue. I am a big fan of Nicole Sach's journaling. I really believe in giving my mind the OK to think the unthinkable. I was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease 5 years ago but have since learned that various physicians missed this diagnosis for about 15 years. It has been easy for me these last five years to blame everything on the PD. Well...the lower back pain and "sciatica" has been beating me into the ground for 8 years now. I started off with Dr. Sarno then gave that up when I got the PD diagnosis. Problem solved, I thought! PD causes limb pain, they said. Ha. I am now back to Dr. Sarno (reading Divided Mind again) and also bought The Way Out. I already feel better. Thanks for the kind and informative response, Diana. Jim
Rinkey
Peer Supporter
jhc1013- I'd suggest you give your friend Healing Back Pain to begin with. It's simple straightforward and easier to get ones head around for a first timer. Also, I found learning and then actually thinking in terms of Rational Emotive Behavior to go hand in hand with Sarno's work. An easy book to learn this is Albert Ellis "How to Stubbornly Refuse to Make Yourself Miserable About Anything". He was kind of wordy, but he has humor.
REBT is very helpful for people with tms, because the C part of the ABCDE's is Consequence of the Activating Event, (A) and Belief (Irrational belief) so the C is anger, anxiety, pain- TMS. Practicing writing out the ABCDE's is good to help you learn to think that way and Ellis has charts and prompts to assist. I also used ChatGPT to help me as it's got a REBT section and is very accurate. I could go on about this- it's a nice way to think and live. I'm sure I'll think of other things to add to this! Hope this helps.
REBT is very helpful for people with tms, because the C part of the ABCDE's is Consequence of the Activating Event, (A) and Belief (Irrational belief) so the C is anger, anxiety, pain- TMS. Practicing writing out the ABCDE's is good to help you learn to think that way and Ellis has charts and prompts to assist. I also used ChatGPT to help me as it's got a REBT section and is very accurate. I could go on about this- it's a nice way to think and live. I'm sure I'll think of other things to add to this! Hope this helps.
This is very helpful and I'm grateful you took the time to respond. I'm not one to mess around so I'll get after this and gratefully try the suggestions offered here. I quit drinking alcohol 20 years ago and I look at this battle in much the same way I viewed that addiction. Something had to be done - so I got after it and haven't looked back. I'm 71 years old, very fit and active, and I don't want pain to be the thing I spend so much time thinking about. Thanks again! Jim
Rinkey
Peer Supporter
Jim- you’re very welcome. There’s a program, SMART.
SMART Recovery (Self-Management and Recovery Training) is a science-based addiction recovery program. It was founded in 1994 and is based on CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) and REBT (Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy) principles. While Ellis didn’t create or write for SMART, his ideas—especially disputing irrational beliefs and focusing on personal responsibility—are at the core of the SMART Recovery approach.
I’ve got a hunch you’ll catch on to REBT easily!
SMART Recovery (Self-Management and Recovery Training) is a science-based addiction recovery program. It was founded in 1994 and is based on CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) and REBT (Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy) principles. While Ellis didn’t create or write for SMART, his ideas—especially disputing irrational beliefs and focusing on personal responsibility—are at the core of the SMART Recovery approach.
I’ve got a hunch you’ll catch on to REBT easily!
Diana-M
Beloved Grand Eagle
@jhc1013
Jim,
I’m so sorry to hear about your troubles (childhood abuse) and Parkinson’s diagnosis. You sound like a strong person, so I know you’ll get far in your recovery.
Part of the first task is to discern what will work best for you. And many people have said (myself included) that the info you can get on this forum comes so fast that it’s like a firehose at first. So don’t let that bother you. Just keep an open mind, look into what speaks to you, and don’t try to do too much, too fast. It’s not a race. And to be honest, this all takes time.
I also was abused as a child, and TMS has come and gone throughout my lifetime. I’m 66 now, and my TMS is pretty intense right now (a bunch of symptoms.) I’ve looked into all the various methods. I did some Internal Family Systems psycho-therapy, and that helped with addressing some of the rage and grief. I’ve done a lot of journaling and studying of Sarno. And I’ve also benefited a lot from Claire Weekes (she has a number of books) about anxiety. Though they were published in the 1960s, they are top notch for explaining what’s happening in your body from anxiety, and how to heal it. I’ve never found better.
More recently, I’ve really liked The Mindful Gardener. He takes a Sarno perspective, but mixes in a lot of tactics for bringing down the fear. https://www.the-mindful-gardener.com/ (THE MINDFUL GARDENER)
I’ve also learned immensely from this forum, especially from the people who have found a way to persevere despite all odds. From them, I have gained the true hope that TMS can be overcome—as long as you don’t give up! Who wants to believe the rest of their life is going to suck?! Not me!!! Little by little, I’m making progress. At a snail’s pace, but I’m happy to have progress.
There is hope here!
Jim,
I’m so sorry to hear about your troubles (childhood abuse) and Parkinson’s diagnosis. You sound like a strong person, so I know you’ll get far in your recovery.
Part of the first task is to discern what will work best for you. And many people have said (myself included) that the info you can get on this forum comes so fast that it’s like a firehose at first. So don’t let that bother you. Just keep an open mind, look into what speaks to you, and don’t try to do too much, too fast. It’s not a race. And to be honest, this all takes time.
I also was abused as a child, and TMS has come and gone throughout my lifetime. I’m 66 now, and my TMS is pretty intense right now (a bunch of symptoms.) I’ve looked into all the various methods. I did some Internal Family Systems psycho-therapy, and that helped with addressing some of the rage and grief. I’ve done a lot of journaling and studying of Sarno. And I’ve also benefited a lot from Claire Weekes (she has a number of books) about anxiety. Though they were published in the 1960s, they are top notch for explaining what’s happening in your body from anxiety, and how to heal it. I’ve never found better.
More recently, I’ve really liked The Mindful Gardener. He takes a Sarno perspective, but mixes in a lot of tactics for bringing down the fear. https://www.the-mindful-gardener.com/ (THE MINDFUL GARDENER)
I’ve also learned immensely from this forum, especially from the people who have found a way to persevere despite all odds. From them, I have gained the true hope that TMS can be overcome—as long as you don’t give up! Who wants to believe the rest of their life is going to suck?! Not me!!! Little by little, I’m making progress. At a snail’s pace, but I’m happy to have progress.
There is hope here!
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You are very kind and helpful. One of my biggest issues is how I acted out for years beginning in my late teens and into my 30’s due to my abuse. I live with oppressive guilt and shame - not over my own abuse but more about how I allowed my anger to cause me to hurt others emotionally. I went from relationship to relationship, blew up a perfectly good marriage, all because I was so damaged. But I am getting on track (now that I’m 71 I guess it’s time LOL). I am reading about REBT right now and find it fascinating. I’m semi-retired as a farm and ranch broker so I have the time, and desire, to get this work started. Thanks again for the lift