When to wean from the forum? Is it necessary?

[Diana-M]

hi everyone,
Well I can’t believe it’s been almost been year since I joined the forum. And I’ve been on here every day. It has taught me so much it’s beyond all description. It’s also kept me alive with Hope and helped me solidify my complete belief that I have TMS.

lately I’m feeling that it’s time for me to get more in the real world and stop hovering over this website. It’s almost like an addiction. I’m going to try weaning myself away —first by only allowing myself to come on once a day, which will be a huge sacrifice! I’ll see if I can pull that off lol

Today, by getting off the forum all day, I did some walking in my living room, a bunch of reading, meditating and some work on Dr. Hanscomb’s app, which is a new plan I’m trying out to heal chronic pain.

i’d like to increase my exercise, do some yoga and some cooking. These are my new goals!

what do people feel about virtual discussion of TMS on the forum versus getting your buns out there and living and doing things?

 

[tgirl]

I have to say you’ve been such an asset to this site that on a selfish note it would be sad to lose you. Do you think coming on this site to help others (which ends up helping yourself) combined with ‘living and doing things’ in the real world would be a good combination? Just a thought!

 

[Diana-M]

I have to say you’ve been such an asset to this site that on a selfish note it would be sad to lose you. Do you think coming on this site to help others (which ends up helping yourself) combined with ‘living and doing things’ in the real world would be a good combination? Just a thought!

@tgirl
You are sweet! I have to say that helping people (if I even am?!) is a huge motivation for me. If I can help someone have hope like others on the forum have given me, then I’m happy. Yes, to answer your question—I should just work harder in the real world and check in on the forum after my “work” is done.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Well, @Diana-M, my dear friend - you pose an interesting and important question. I ask a version of it myself all the time. I recognize that the forum is my personal social media addiction, and I tend to beat myself up for using it as an excuse to avoid other chores and commitments. The forum is also an outlet for my perfectionist and even OCD tendencies, which means that I can easily waste time on unnecessary tweaking while my brain is convincing me I'm accomplishing something important. And of course we all enjoy that dopamine hit when our posts are Liked or we receive a positive response - it's the lure and the design of social media. All of this, of course, being a clear indication of my brain on TMS.

So I get that aspect of your question, for what it's worth. But now that you've asked, I find myself with a significant thought regarding your recovery progress, and expressing that thought requires me to be blunt with you - once again - which is ironically where we started a year ago, as I suspect you might recall as well as I do. I'm pretty sure it was among our earliest interactions on a thread where you spent a lot of time rationalizing why you should not be medically checked out for your new set of symptoms, and you had quite a discussion going with people talking about the pros and cons of seeing doctors and not seeing doctors and so on. As I recall, I pretty much barged in and told you to cut the bullshit and the self-distraction and just go see the damn doctor and get it over with so you could move on and do the work. Which you did, as I also recall.

So. Here we are almost a year later. Now, I hope you know full well that nobody on the forum loves you more than I do, and I don't have a split second of hesitation in stating that you are a huge asset to our forum as an entity, as well as to many individual community members, and I love the support and follow up you provide and the really good discussions you provoke.

BUT (you knew it was coming) here is the other side that I'm possibly seeing...

I'm probably strongly influenced by the fact that I'm reading Dr Mate's new book right now (that's where I got the reference to the social media dopamine hit in today's chapter) because one of his primary theses, first proposed in When The Body Says No, has to do with what Dr Sarno called goodism, which is such a brilliant term for the people that Dr Mate describes as devoting their lives to being SO damn nice ALL the fucking time. (Although Dr Mate is never so crude as to say "fucking", that's me. These people are, in fact, NICE to the ultimate detriment of their own well-being; NICE until they make themselves sick.

So when you asked your question about stepping back, that's what suddenly came into my head, and I made the connection between your unrelenting niceness, and Dr Mate's compelling thesis. Because in spite of many discussions you've engaged in about standing up for yourself and creating boundaries, your addiction to always being nice and supportive is evidenced here every day. I saw it very recently, in fact - just yesterday? and perhaps that was the one that helped me put 2 and 2 together just now.

I feel like Dr Mate would easily identify you as one of those super nice people who always put the needs of others to be soothed and to feel good ahead of your own needs.

Your own needs right now might be, rather than avoiding the forum entirely, to go cold turkey for a while on nice "cheerleading" posts which don't add substance to the discussion. See if you can restrict yourself to hitting the Like button on someone's post and calling it good. Your new mantra might be "Use the like button more often, and your keyboard less often" It probably won't be easy for you to do this, and I totally get it - at some point I realized that I had to do the same, because I used to want to respond personally to every update. It's not sustainable, and it's not healthy.

Let me be clear: this is a suggestion and not a prohibition by any means. Rather, it could be a useful exercise and an experiment in mindfulness. You could use the time to examine why you have this need to post so many supportive comments just to be supportive, perhaps examining your motivation in that moment. Is it procrastination? Do you need the reinforcement of receiving new Likes? How does this all relate to your deeply buried unmet emotional needs?

You know the drill. And honest feedback is part of the drill. Let me know what you think, and take your time.

 

[Diana-M]

Jan!
oh my gosh, you really did hit the nail in the head and I’m not just being nice lol.

Absolutely I feel compelled to help people feel better. I have so much sympathy and empathy and I feel I owe it to people to help them. for about the last month or two I’ve been trying to just use the “like” button, to no avail. I can see what you’re saying!and then I would picture the person sad and I would want to make them feel better.

i’ve been saying to myself lately that I don’t hold the world up. I’m not the person who can fix everything for people. I know this comes from my upbringing. I was the oldest in a very difficult family and I felt like I could save my younger sisters. I tried to. I even felt like I could save my parents. Sometimes I felt like I was the only parent in the family, even when I was really young. I’m fully aware of all this about myself .

I actually never really thought of the addiction to getting likes . I don’t pay attention to getting likes that much. I mostly like when people answer and give me good advice. I also absorb the good advice people give to other people in their posts. It has been huge for me, but I also realize I think I’ve learned most of what you can learn about TMS. It’s time to stop talking and start doing.

I think I also use the forum a little bit as a drug if I feel a sad feeling come over me or an anxious feeling, I’ll reach for the forum as a distraction. It gives me the sensation that there’s something in control of anything. Its sort of like homebase to me. I know this is all fabricated by my brain.

thank you so so much for your honesty —always! I honestly do love everybody on this forum and I know that I’ll find the right balance but I can feel it nagging me to get more discipline, pull away and stop with the goodism obsession to help every single person. This isn’t even possible. And at some point I have to put the mask on myself first.

I like your idea to just hit the like button and let it be enough —but boy does it hurt to think that somebody might have a better day with an encouraging word!

 

[feduccini]

@Diana-M how about you set up some fixed time for the forum? I'd recommend during the evening, because going for dopamine release first time in the morning isn't the best idea.

This way it'll be a reward for a day well spent (and we won't lose you)

 

[JanAtheCPA]

I mostly like when people answer and give me good advice.

Sure, that makes sense for where you're at (vs. where I'm at). And it tells us that for you, receiving supportive responses are where you get your dopamine hits. So, to follow through on that, you also said: "I also realize I think I’ve learned most of what you can learn about TMS" which begs the question, whether you're really learning anything earth-shakingly new and useful from the support you still (for good reasons!) emotionally crave.

Mind you, just because I'm not seeking support doesn't mean I'm not completely engaged in similar behavior here! I love being of service - my career as a public accountant was devoted to being of service and developing personal relationships, and I was regularly rewarded (in addition to being paid) with the gratitude that my clients expressed at my ability to take an onerous and overwhelming task off their shoulders every year. Now that I'm retired, I'm spending much more time being of service on the forum, and I'm rewarded on a regular basis, even sometimes for being blunt instead of nice. Which is something I would encourage you to think about. I sometimes write responses offline that I don't post. Just like the unsent letter, an unposted response is where I let 'er rip, saying what I really think about someone's infuriating resistance (this is usually the situation), and characterizing them as an energy vampire and time-waster. Obviously I'm not going to post that, knowing that these people are truly suffering and that we can't help them, which is heartbreaking. By the time I privately write the tirade, I'm happy to no longer respond, and let them hopefully fade away on their own. Because, WE CAN'T HELP EVERYONE. This is the truth about reality, and if there is one thing at the heart of this work, it is being willing to accept the truth about reality.

All that being said, we are designed to be social creatures, and as such, we need connection in order to survive. Our participation here provides a much healthier and more loving connection than the majority of social media outlets. So do NOT give up the connection! Just be a bit more mindful of your participation from that point of view, and consider responding (as you have done plenty of times) only when your response is connected to a deeper emotional place that touches on your own struggles. If it doesn't do that - hands off the keyboard!

XOX ~Jan

 

[JanAtheCPA]

I'd recommend during the evening, because going for dopamine release first time in the morning isn't the best idea.

That's interesting - I did not know that! But I also haven't really thought much about the dopamine hit at all until Dr. Mate referred to it in his book! I tell you, that book is blowing my mind. I'm currently on the chapters about mental illness, and it's revelatory. Once again, Dr. Mate is at the forefront of presenting radical truths that are not yet accepted in the traditional practices.

 

[Ellen]

I think the issue is the degree to which we allow TMS to be a distraction. This can take the form of being distracted by our TMS symptoms. But it can also take the form of being distracted by "working on my TMS" or "studying TMS" etc. Obviously working on TMS and studying it has value and is necessary to achieve recovery. So I usually recommend that people limit how much time they spend thinking about TMS daily to about an hour a day (nothing magical about that amount, but important to limit it) so that it doesn't become your life. Coming on the forum and giving support to others seems like a good thing as long as it doesn't take too much time and you spend the majority of your day living your life.

 

[feduccini]

That's interesting - I did not know that!

It's because the dopamine levels used for behavior reinforcement. One of the problems with addiction is that it depletes the dopamine stored for maintening healthy behaviors. When you spend a morning on instagram for example, it's way harder to start another activity because you lack the dopamine destined for it. And then you do something that we who have ADHD know very well, you ran for distractions for the brain to get excited and create more dopamine.

 

[Diana-M]

It's because the dopamine levels used for behavior reinforcement. One of the problems with addiction is that it depletes the dopamine stored for maintening healthy behaviors. When you spend a morning on instagram for example, it's way harder to start another activity because you lack the dopamine destined for it. And then you do something that we who have ADHD know very well, you ran for distractions for the brain to get excited and create more dopamine.

This actually explains a lot!

 

[Mr Hip Guy]

I recognize that the forum is my personal social media addiction, and I tend to beat myself up for using it as an excuse to avoid other chores and commitments. The forum is also an outlet for my perfectionist and even OCD tendencies, which means that I can easily waste time on unnecessary tweaking while my brain is convincing me I'm accomplishing something important. And of course we all enjoy that dopamine hit when our posts are Liked or we receive a positive response - it's the lure and the design of social media. All of this, of course, being a clear indication of my brain on TMS.

As usual, you get right to the heart of the matter. So much truth in what you wrote above (as well as in your entire post).

For the OP, I can definitely see the appeal to "hanging out" here alot - you get to help others but it's also helping you - I definitely get that. For myself, I'm a veteran of the internet since the 90s and kinda got the "forum addiction" out of my system around that time. And I'm at a place with my TMS management that I only need to consult this wiki from time to time - not everyone is lucky enough to be in that place. So my advice is to try to find some balance that works for you - if you feel like you come here too much, well then give serious thought to that initial feeling and evaluate if its true or not. There's no black/white or right/wrong answers on this one to me.

 

[Andy Bayliss]

About the "likes." I never use them and I don't look to see if anyone likes my posts. I can feel the addictive threads that you describe Jan, so I've tried to take this off my plate at least!
Diana-M If you get nothing else from this question except the honest question for yourself about how much you might want to help others so that you're "enough" that would be huge. I certainly have had those feelings on this Forum about myself. This is a hard question to honestly feel into, and yet a good one for our self-understanding. One practice is to lay off a little and just sense into how you feel not getting positive (or even perceived, imagined positive) feedback. "How do I feel if....?" This is fruit for my inquiry, and may take me into what I normally defend against. The same areas inside that I compulsively defend with behaviors may be the places which are defended with TMS symptoms.

 

[Diana-M]

About the "likes." I never use them and I don't look to see if anyone likes my posts. I can feel the addictive threads that you describe Jan, so I've tried to take this off my plate at least!
Diana-M If you get nothing else from this question except the honest question for yourself about how much you might want to help others so that you're "enough" that would be huge. I certainly have had those feelings on this Forum about myself. This is a hard question to honestly feel into, and yet a good one for our self-understanding. One practice is to lay off a little and just sense into how you feel not getting positive (or even perceived, imagined positive) feedback. "How do I feel if....?" This is fruit for my inquiry, and may take me into what I normally defend against. The same areas inside that I compulsively defend with behaviors may be the places which are defended with TMS symptoms.

Andy,
Thank you so much your post here. it really resonated with me. This one issue has been on my mind for a few weeks now, and I have noticed what you said. I’ve noticed that I defend my need to be a helper, and as a method/crutch for feeling value. And like you suggested, this new awareness is really worth a lot and it’s definitely a place where TMS can hide.

Recently, I retired because of my TMS symptoms. I never wanted to retire and the reason is I wanted to stay useful because that’s what makes me feel valuable. It’s a really miserable feeling to realize that you don’t think you have value —really miserable! And it’s something I need to heal.

I’ve been working lately out of Dr. David Burns’ book, Feeling Good (a book recommended on the DOC app, Dr. Hanscom’s method for healing chronic pain). He has a daily exercise where you spend 15 minutes writing down your thought patterns then discerning the cognitive distortions that you’re using on your thoughts. Then you rewrite them to be positive. (I’m sure you’re probably aware of this process. It’s called cognitive behavioral therapy.) I’ve only been doing this for a week or so and it’s been stunning to see all the negative thought patterns and distorted thought patterns I have. Dr. Burns says depression is rooted in a sense of worthlessness. I’ve always suffered from depression.

I have begun to feel just the smallest amount of relief learning this, and I believe it can be improved upon greatly. This all dovetails with my awareness that I’ve got this really strong need to be of use.

It’s kind of sad because what if everyone in the world didn’t want be of use? lol I think being nice is a good thing. I like it when people are nice to me, but I think having it as a main source or the only way to like yourself, can hurt you.

what an amazing journey this TMS journey is! I feel like I’ve never known myself, and I have really spent a lot of time always in therapy and in self-help efforts; nothing has compared to this TMS journey.

it’s just like what Nicole Sachs says, when you come out of this you’ll be better than you could ever have imagined. (I’m paraphrasing her.)

thanks so much for weighing in on my journey. It really means a lot to me!

 

[Cactusflower]

There is a very fine line at times between feeling useful and following your passion.
I went through this, and I decided that the things I am passionate about made me feel useful, to myself and others - and recognizing that has helped me keep out of any self-destructive habits surrounding it. You can still have all the ying and yang of life and learn to be comfortable with all of it.

 

[Diana-M]

There is a very fine line at times between feeling useful and following your passion.
I went through this, and I decided that the things I am passionate about made me feel useful, to myself and others - and recognizing that has helped me keep out of any self-destructive habits surrounding it. You can still have all the ying and yang of life and learn to be comfortable with all of it.

Wisely said, my friend.

 

[Andy Bayliss]

It’s kind of sad because what if everyone in the world didn’t want be of use? lol I think being nice is a good thing.

As Cactusflower discusses and I'm sure this is your contemplation, "How can I be of service in a natural way which isn't a compulsion of my personality patterns?" I think this is a life-long contemplation for me. Passion, what we're drawn to do is probably a different inner "flavor" than my compulsive helping experience.

Part of it has to do with my desire to control, and that might mean in the subject you're exploring, the desire to control how I am met or perceived by others. In this vein, I'll add this quote from Gangaji in longer discussion about controlling the world, or the ego's desire and delusions about control of self and other. I'm thinking of her word "support" as a way to feel into the situation which might need my input or help, and what that might mean vs needing to be helpful. She is pointing to a way of interacting which is new and fresh and outside our conditioning, I think.

"

" I would like to make the distinction here between control and support, since much misery is experienced in the belief that one can control, and great joy is experienced in providing support.


… If your desire is to support rather than to control, you will catch fire. The mind will stop its clutching and will begin to open. What follows the natural opening of the mind is the most profound, the most mysterious, the most unspeakable realization."

 

[JanAtheCPA]

I decided that the things I am passionate about made me feel useful, to myself and others - and recognizing that has helped me keep out of any self-destructive habits surrounding it.

[edit: quoting Gangaji]"I would like to make the distinction here between control and support, since much misery is experienced in the belief that one can control, and great joy is experienced in providing support. … If your desire is to support rather than to control, you will catch fire. The mind will stop its clutching and will begin to open. What follows the natural opening of the mind is the most profound, the most mysterious, the most unspeakable realization."

Mind blown, you guys. And thank you for these - I think they just made my day, if not my week/month/perhaps year (given that 2025 so far doesn't have much else to recommend it).

I have been carrying anxiety about this for a while now - fearing that my participation in the forum is excessive and addictive, knowing that it is a social media platform, albeit a positive and very helpful one. But I feel better right now. Lightbulb on: my primary motivator is that I am hugely passionate about spreading the word about mindbody recovery. And now I am also going to better appreciate the things I do to set boundaries (although they sometimes feel cruel when I need to remind myself that we can't help everyone). Perhaps I will try to spend less time on personal responses and get back to work on some back-burnered projects to make the forum and the wiki and the resources more accessible and easier for responders, too (@Cactusflower knows what I'm referring to ) THAT would be a good goal for 2025.

 

[Rinkey]

Perhaps I will try to spend less time on personal responses and get back to work on some back-burnered projects to make the forum and the wiki and the resources more accessible and easier for responders, too (@Cactusflower knows what I'm referring to ) THAT would be a good goal for 2025.

That sounds like a terrific idea !!