What is TMS and what isn't? Sarno? Ozanich? Do TMS doctors even know?

There's a bigger question of where all disease originates from, but Dr. Sarno found that a lot of chronic pain was not able to be addressed physically and the pain was not corresponding to what he knew about the structural human body. This is where the TMS diagnosis is most obvious and relates to a personality type. Clarity, if we knew a little more about how you got the diagnosis of pelvic congestion and what you've tried to treat it, including what TMS work you have done, it would maybe help. I can relate, because the assertion is always that IBS, GERD and digestive problems are TMS and yet can also have actual structural issues like hiatal hernia, and everything is hypothetical and vague at this point. I've had alarming back pain, but because of the Sarno education that speaks specifically to it, I can smash through it like it's nothing.

 

Yeah, I agree. Sometimes, even though it is caused by the mindbody, you might still need some medical help once you're deep in. Then you can work on staying out!

 

I agree with you and he has gone off the deep end if he is calling actual infections from a microorganism, or cancer, indistinguishable from TMS. These are illnesses with clear medical/traumatic causes. The "everything is TMS" mentality is dangerous and I have seen a couple posts over the years where people ended up finding out they had serious issues they had ignored by calling them TMS. A proper exam, with the proper tests and a definitive diagnosis, is crucial. If nothing is found, or it's "well this disc MIGHT be causing it" then you can focus on TMS. If it's a spot you have proven isn't medical and recurs then you can treat it like TMS. If it's stuff that happens ONLY when stuff is going bad in life...not connected to any feasible mechanism...like "throwing out your back" simply tying your shoes...then you can treat it like TMS. But dismissing everything as TMS is dangerous.

 

Someone the other day maintained that a bee sting was TMS because it was taking too long to heal. I'm not an expert, and maybe bee stings are attributable to TMS, but I'm not sold on the idea. One time when I was about 10 years old I sat on an old stump and several bees went in my shorts. Suffice it to say, I got stung a few times and when I frantically took my shorts off, everyone was laughing. (except me...I was quite mortified).

 

I think you're missing the context of the bee sting; this is what I said to the poster:

I will tell you right now that I 100% believe that the severe case of mono I once got weeks after a nervous breakdown is no coincidence. It took me forever to heal, and my case was particularly ugly according to the doctors. It's quite evident that my immune system was completely screwed from stress, and science has shown that this is indeed possible. As mentioned in my post above, studies demonstrated that physical wounds heal much more slowly when one is stressed. We're more likely to pick up infections because our bodies aren't fighting them off or healing from them as quickly as they normally would be.

Until people understand that TMS isn't an actual medical condition (meaning that nobody "has TMS" like they would have pink eye), and that it's simply referring to the mind-body connection that affects every single person on this planet (think about your eyes twitching when you're upset or getting a headache after a stressful work deadline), it will be difficult to accept what this means. The only difference between all of us on these forums versus everyone else on the planet is that many of us have gotten so stressed out (or whatever emotion you want to say), our bodies are reacting more strongly. But we aren't unique, and our bodies are simply doing what nature has programmed them to do. I think that's the biggest hurdle. Also, Steve Ozanich is the first person to say that you need to get a medical exam to make sure you know what's going on.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: remember that every disease has a psychogenic component, meaning that our emotions play a major role in how we feel and thrive, no matter what the diagnosis is. I remember reading that gay AIDS patients from the 1980s died much quicker if they weren’t out to their families and felt ashamed of themselves; alternatively, gay AIDS patients who received strong familial support and loved themselves often lived years longer. And this was before working medications were available to AIDS patients. Now, of course stress didn’t cause AIDS, but it ultimately impacted the quality of the patients’ lives and made them more suspectible to opportunistic infections. Breast cancer patients who practice mindful meditation and self-love also lived longer than those who didn’t in multiple studies. There are so many other examples of this. This is because emotions can further suppress our immune systems, nervous system function, hormones, etc.

The body is designed to respond to our emotions: this is the placebo effect, this is how spontaneous recoveries/remissions from serious issues occur (fun fact: the recoveries/remissions aren’t so spontaneous after all!), this is fight-or-flight mode turning on during a threat, this is the release of happy neurotransmitters when you smile, this is the release of adrenaline while upset, this is why cancer patients die quicker when they’re depressed and believe they’re going to die, etc. From stomach pain when you’re angry to full blown CRPS or PTSD after a traumatic event, we’re all affected. Don’t view this as anything other than a fact of nature.

This is scientifically documented and not junk science. Always check in with a trusted and knowledgeable medical professional, see what they have to say. If the symptoms are deemed to be psychogenic, then work on eliminating your fear of and obsession with them, managing your emotions toward life in general, and going out and living a great life. That's all you need to do. If the symptoms are not deemed to be psychogenic but rather a structural condition, understand the mind-body connection, and remember that stress will break you down not only mentally and emotionally, but also physically.

TL;DR: "TMS" is nothing more than the mind-body connection. The "what is TMS and what is not?" conversation will always be skewed because the mind-body connection affects everything. People on these forums tend to obsess over things and not deal with emotions very well, and even if you have a "structural" issue, that will likely make what you're dealing with much worse - whether it's AIDS, cancer, mono, etc. And remember that weakened immune systems from stress can be the reason why you keep getting sick and/or aren't healing from issues (even slow-to-heal broken bones).

 

Thank you for this, Dorado. Really great post.

 

No doubt Dorado. Good points. Just saying it's hard for me to grasp. I think this is why we need to build The System. But what do you think about when I was 10 years old and had to frantically get the bees out of my shorts. Everyone was laughing!! Don't you think this could cause TMS?

 

There's no need to create any system - you just need to work on the elimination of fear and obsession, the management of emotions (doesn't mean being perfect), and getting back to living life. It's as simple as that. Anything else is either a placebo, temporary (because the body is designed to respond to our emotions, and it will find a way to express itself), and/or a pathway to more obsession. I don't have symptoms anymore, and plenty of us no longer do - no system was required.

Regardless of what you do, you need to do the emotional work because again - just like Jeff Goldblum's character in Jurassic Park said that life finds a way, so does your body's response to emotions. That will never go away. The mind-body connection is an integral part of your nature. It's linked to every single part of you.

 

Dorado,
Your posts (both past and current) are insightful and thought provoking. I applaud you for sharing your compelling story with the forum members. I think many could benefit from going back and reading your posts from the beginning. The doubts the struggles and finally the healing. There are others who have had similar successes and I would encourage everyone who is seeking a 'cure' to read some of these testimonies from these forum members who have overcome their pain.
Kindly
Lainey

 

Interesting. And I hope you are right, but it just seems that The System may help those of us that can't seem to reach that deep, deep meditative state and access the unconscious mind (and find the key!). I have not had much luck (so far) finding anyone to help me design The System, and my own brain is actively trying to prevent its design because it wants to hide the truth from me. At present I am wondering if it's possible to separate the Cortex and Limbic System. This may not be the solution, it's just an area I'm reasearching at present. Easier said than done though..

 

Interesting thread here, I can certainly understand the frustration between trying to understand the line between TMS and the physical, and when it gets blurred. The truth is, the mind/body system is fluid and so many things affect so many others, in both and all directions. Sometimes things are clearly TMS (such as chronic back pain for many years), some things are clearly not (such a spinal fracture), some things have a component of TMS that piggybacks (lingering back pain after a spinal fracture), and still others have a mind/body COMPONENT but are not caused by just one thing (like cancer). The mind/body is complex and we don't understand it fully. This is why different TMS docs have different opinions. I have my own opinions too, after seeing this in practice for a couple of years. I don't have empirical research to back it all up yet, but some of it can be observed or figured out.

In terms of the brain-no, you cannot separate parts out of the whole. Certainly we all have brain states that are more cortex-dominant (I assume you refer to the prefrontal cortex, responsible for executive functioning), or more limbic-dominant. But the parts all function in concert, you cannot separate them out. Things like regularly practicing mindfulness meditation have been shown to increase neural connections in part of the prefrontal cortex, though. You don't have to be any special kind of person to do mindfulness meditation, just make time to learn the practice.

As has been discussed before on these forums, it is not terribly important if you want to use unconscious rage as your explanation behind TMS as Sarno did, think of it as "stress" -caused (a generic term meaning many things), or look at it as neural pathway-caused, like Dr. Schubiner favors. We all harbor unconscious rage, and repressed emotions no doubt play into our general health much more than medicine accounts for. These emotions are stored in neural pathways in the brain, of course. Both of these things can be true, depends how you like to think of the brain/mind.

As for the term "stress", this could refer how a person responds to difficult situations in their life. Do they repress? Deal with their issues head-on? Have someone to help them work through their emotions surrounding the difficult situation? Are they part of a marginalized group of people who has more daily "stress" (oppression) to deal with than others? You see how "stress" doesn't have one meaning. Some folks can go through extremely difficult situations but due to their personality/coping ability and/or environment, not experience terribly difficult emotions due to it.

Just a few thoughts on the topic...many things here aren't black and white.

 

Thank you so much, @Lainey! I really appreciate that, and enjoy reading your posts as well. Even though I live a pretty symptom-free life at this point, I want to try to spread hope to people who feel just as stuck as I did.

Nobody is incapable of managing their fear and obsession as well as getting back to living life. Your posts definitely signify very intense levels of fear (thinking you're incapable of relaxing your body's stress response and moving past the symptoms) and obsession (frequently trying to obtain new information and getting way too deep into the details instead of relaxing). Sometimes a therapist can do wonders, sometimes temporarily trying out a supplement or medication can help, sometimes neuroplasticity techniques like meditation and biofeedback (especially when a trained professional is included) can be a complete game changer. I really think you're better off looking into these types of options than creating a system. And give yourself more credit.

I don't think you should have to do this alone, and I also don't think any system is going to help you. It's going to further make you fearful and obsessive - trust me, we've all been there in different ways (I remember spending hours Googling symptoms and reading NeuroTalk posts, and going to more doctors to request more tests even after I had a bunch done). I was pretty damn fearful and obsessive. That's how we all ended up on this forum. You're just as capable of living without the symptoms as I am.

Also, your brain isn't trying to hide anything from you - I wouldn't think like that. There's a lot of confusion on these forums, and a lot of advice from members who aren't in the healthiest place in their own lives (this is nothing to judge because again, we've all been there). Be extremely careful about the advice that you take from people who are yet to improve, because it's easy to think that nobody gets any better. But plenty of us do! Your body is designed to heal. Healing is in your body's nature - the system is not.

Ask yourself the following questions (you don't have to post the answers here; they are for you to think about). What makes you happy in life? What was going on when the symptoms started? How do you balance your emotions? How often do you make time for yourself to have fun? What are your relationships like? What is your job like? What do you want in life? Who have you discussed this with in your life? What other obsessions and fears have you experienced throughout your life? Is there a therapist you trust nearby?

 

This seems very reassuring. I will admit, I've fallen victim to obsession and fear over the past few years. Perhaps The System is not necessary. But do you think it's possible? Yes I know the answers to your questions for the most part. My brain is playing tic tac toe against me and usually wins, sadly. It is always a step ahead and hence my struggles. It is getting stronger I believe, which really has me worried. Anyway, I like your advice and will take it into consideration Dorado and MindbodyPT

 

Sofa, I have no idea what you're talking about, and I am not going to spend time finding out, because it sounds like you're looking for the Magic Pill, the one-size-fits-all solution. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but at the risk of insulting you, this forum is not the place for that kind of magical thinking.

What I find magical, is knowing that I have the personal power to change the way my brain thinks and the way it manages my physiological processes, that I can choose to be healthy and to recover if I don't let my primitive fears sabotage me. But I know that the way to accomplish this is entirely personal and unique to me. What's continually fascinating, and continually frustrating, is how easy it is to let my fearful primitive brain get the upper hand and lead me down the wrong path. Which is how I ended up with pneumonia this summer, for crying out loud. There's always more work to do.

Dorado, your insights, and the skill with which you are able to share them, are nothing short of awesome. Thank you for being here.

Addendum: Sofa, I went back to your original post describing your desire for a "system" and have responded there.

 

Hi Jan, thanks for your responses! Don't ever worry about insulting me; I am seeking the truth and appreciate when peoppl "tell it to me straight". In the short time I've been a member of this forum I've learned a great deal....and it's making me second guess my own brain in the process.
I'd like to hear more about the primitive brain. This sounds like what I'm trying to access via The System, but many if you have expressed concerns and doubt about the system. Do you have a link or post relating to primitive brain and how to access it? Thanks again

 

Good response, Sofa! Have you read any of Dr Sarno's books? My personal recommendation is his last one, The Divided Mind, which has six chapters by other authors. I got my first copy from my local library. You might also appreciate the presentation of The Great Pain Deception by Steve Ozanich.

There are so many different ways to learn about what we here call TMS, and not everyone calls it that, but all mind-body practitioners and authors are talking about the same thing.

I highly recommend that you start working on our free (volunteer-designed) Structured Educational Program. It is designed to get you to access your hidden emotional areas - the things that your fearful brain would like to keep you distracted from knowing about.

Good luck!

 

Thanks Jan. I've only read the first book, Healing Back Pain. I'll check out your recommendation!

 

Steve O does a particularly good job describing Freud's theories and how they fit in with TMS theory.

 

I suffer from suppressed anger and rage due to getting used and taking advantage of by a few people in my past which developed into distrust of others, low self esteem, depression, anxiety then emotional stress then panic disorder.

I would picture their faces and imagine me kicking the living daylights out of them for what they did to me but it would make me feel worse.

I blame my aches and pains on having those negative emotions and when I was introduced to TMS it all made sense why I suffer from lower back pain, leg cramps, migraine headaches, ocular migraines and pains in my jaw and teeth. The pains in my jaw and teeth are due to clenching my teeth in my sleep due to stress and suppressed anger.

 

Maybe go the opposite direction and show kindness to yourself and those who harmed you? Imagine what must have happened to them in their lives to make them into these people? They are just operating from fear and lack of lack. Talk to yourself like a really kind, loving person would if they were comforting you?