What else is there - Seriously

[Balsa11]

Enjoy something, anything, just because you enjoy it and for no other reason. Right brain feedback.

I'm also working on feeling feelings instead of fighting them.

 

[tgirl]

RogueWave, since you are a doctor I’m wondering if you might be able to answer this question. It would be appreciated if anyone who has any idea would post. I realize that stress hormones and learned neural pathways are basically what causes mind/body pain, but why is it that one person will be plagued by prickly leg skin, another dizziness, another pelvic pain and so on? This question pops into my head and causes me some uneasiness. It seems some suffer from run of the mill pain and others from strange symptoms. Thanks for any input.

 

[RogueWave]

RogueWave, since you are a doctor I’m wondering if you might be able to answer this question. It would be appreciated if anyone who has any idea would post. I realize that stress hormones and learned neural pathways are basically what causes mind/body pain, but why is it that one person will be plagued by prickly leg skin, another dizziness, another pelvic pain and so on? This question pops into my head and causes me some uneasiness. It seems some suffer from run of the mill pain and others from strange symptoms. Thanks for any input.

Also a great question, and one I can’t answer for certain, other than to say there may be some genetics involved in sensitive/weak areas.

Ultimately it is the constant overstimulation of the parasympathetic system (which controls most of what is going on in your body) that causes these problems. Take a look at what the PNS governs, and it will explain just about every possible TMS symptom.

 

[miffybunny]

My understanding of why people get specific symptoms in specific areas are essentially "No one knows". There are 6 plausible explanations though:

1.). Prior injury or surgery: The brain can latch on to an injury that occurred when the person was in a stressed negative emotional state. Chronic symptoms ensue.

2.). Something that "runs in the family": something they grew up with ( a mom who had migraines or family members who suffered from certain conditions) and they heard about or witnessed a lot. This makes a person suggestible.

3.) Association with repetitive mechanical work: typing, bending down a lot (things people do in their work for example)

4.) Reading about a condition (contagious symptoms)

5.) Symbolic : foot pain (can't "stand something"), pain in the neck (someone or something is a "pain in their neck"), pain in the butt ("a pain in the butt" lol")

6.). An area that means a lot to a person ( a pianist and their hands, a runner with foot or leg pain, an area they are vain about, an area attached to feelings of sexuality)

 

[tgirl]

Thanks to both of you for your responses. I think for me, I’ve always had a fear of neurological disease. Nothing terrifies me more, so my present symptoms have sent me to three different neurologists, who have found nothing. My previous symptom was light headedness that dissipated on its own. That also caused me to have testing and see a neurologist, who again, found nothing. I even remember telling my physician decades ago that I had weird feelings in my feet, and he said I was fine, so it went away.

 

[miffybunny]

Just want to add another factor which is somatic pathways. There are 3 main categories of anxiety pathways and symptoms that Dr. Alan Abbass outlines. The 3 categories in order of severity are: Voluntary Muscle (pain in feet, legs, neck shoulders, chest, abdomen etc). Smooth Muscle (bladder, bowels, migraines) and Cognitive Perceptual (visual blurring, fainting reduced hearing, confusion, dissociation,). The neurological symptoms are directly correlated to the severity of the anxiety and emotional processes. This is probably also why back pain (and similar things that send people to chiropractors, orthopedists and surgeons) is the most common in America. It's big business here.

 

[Balsa11]

@RogueWave

How am I supposed to become a new person? How am I supposed to become someone who doesn't react to the pain with frustration and despair, generating these biochemical responses and perpetuating the symptoms? Practice and diligence are not having the desired effect. I don't want to hate the pain. I don't want to believe it will never go away. But I do not see where I any opportunity to choose a different response. I am aware of my negative habits, but I've been trying for a decade to react differently to the pain. I'm not aiming to be argumentative, I just genuinely don't understand where I've been going wrong.

Find something you love about yourself and build on it

 

[tgirl]

That makes sense Miffybunny, but where does nerve ending pain come into this equation? I’ve read about a number of people healing from these sorts of symptoms. It would almost seem as though an over stimulated mind has activated them.

 

[Balsa11]

That makes sense Miffybunny, but where does nerve ending pain come into this equation? I’ve read about a number of people healing from these sorts of symptoms. It would almost seem as though an over stimulated mind has activated them.

Just another symptom

 

[miffybunny]

That makes sense Miffybunny, but where does nerve ending pain come into this equation? I’ve read about a number of people healing from these sorts of symptoms. It would almost seem as though an over stimulated mind has activated them.

Nerve pain is simply in the 3rd category which indicates the highest level of anxiety. I had full blown CRPS which as you know, is just an extreme form of TMS. It just means that your brain is in higher state of fight or flight but it's no less reversible than any other manifestation of anxiety. All chronic pain stems from the brain and all sensations are created by the brain...whether they be burning, stabbing, throbbing, tensing, clenching, spasming, itching, swelling, blindness, dizziness, allodynia, hyperalgesia, dystonia, G. I. issues, phantom limb etc. etc. etc. It's all the same. The brain can create all manner of symptoms in virtually any area of the body. They come and go, wax and wane, get better and worse, move to other locations, stay fixed in the same spot. Get triggered by movement, activities, places, people, weather, clothes, food, light, computer screens. None of that matters one single iota. It's all dynamic pain and all reversible.

 

[Idearealist]

So do any of these sound familiar: 'Why me?' 'I can't live like this!!' 'What if its..(insert deadly diagnosis here)??' IT'S SO BAD! No one understands what I'm going through! What did I do to deserve this? Why aren't I healed now? Is this TMS??

Nah, that's totally not me all day every day... I don't have it in me to properly reply to such an excellent post, but know that it's much appreciated. I feel like this mega thread is valuable, and could potentially be even more so in the future.

 

[Idearealist]

Movement helps get unstiffed

Totally agree with you on the last sentence, just don't want to get hung up on yet another diagnosis label.

I've still been walking A LOT every day and lifting/doing calisthenics a few times a week. It helps, but I tend to dwell on how much fitness I've lost in the last year. Last January I could do sets of 15 pullups with relative ease; now typing on a keyboard seems like a Herculean feat. How the mighty have fallen...

And yeah, labels are only useful until they're redundant or feed into limiting beliefs. I'll try to avoid using them unless absolutely necessary, lol.

 

[RogueWave]

I've still been walking A LOT every day and lifting/doing calisthenics a few times a week. It helps, but I tend to dwell on how much fitness I've lost in the last year. Last January I could do sets of 15 pullups with relative ease; now typing on a keyboard seems like a Herculean feat. How the mighty have fallen...

When people tell me things like this, I always tell them ‘ok, that might be true, but it’s just for now.’ So anytime you catch yourself thinking/feeling that, add ‘just for now’ onto it. I heard one of the Navy SEALS talk about their training, and when someone would say they wanted to quit, he’d tell them ‘ok, but quit tomorrow.’

You know your body is strong, because it’s been there before, and it can regain that strength.

Let go of anything with the past, it’s a waste of time and will only fuel the despair. Catch yourself when you do this, and shift it ASAP.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

@BloodMoon: Very well said!

@eskimoeskimo Ah, now that’s a good question. Because you are sharp and analytical, I know you probably want a step-by-step guide, and there isn’t one. We can only share our stories to give examples of what worked for us.

But look at the commonalities first. All of us that have healed have changed something about ourselves on a deep level (with a lot of effort!)

Even after I cured my back pain after reading Dr. Sarno’s books, I still wondered what the actual mechanism was that allowed for the healing. And I’ve since realized that his books gave me hope and confidence, and that replaced the anger and despair I lived with daily for most of my life. This changed my internal state, which allowed my body to relax, and the pain to start going away.

I’ve had many patients in my office who wait weeks to see me, and when they finally come in, their pain is better that day, or even as they are walking in. They always say ‘well that figures! Why is it when I finally get here my pain is better?’ It’s because hope and optimism have flooded the body with entirely new chemistry, at least for a little while. ‘Bad’ chemical states and good chemical states in the body can’t co-exist.

Energy goes where attention goes, and the thing you feed is the one that will win. It’s just that most people are so used to feeding the bad ones that it just becomes who we are....and the cycle continues.

All I can tell you is that you can’t become ‘new’ by saying, thinking, feeling, and doing the same things you’ve always done. It may help to try ‘front-loading’ the experience. So throughout the day, instead of constantly reacting to things the same way, use your imagination to (sounds corny, I know) imagine what it would feel like if all of the pain and other issues were already gone. What would that feel like? Try and feel/think it now, EVEN IF you’re in pain. It’s a leap of faith, like Hillbilly said, but it can work.

Don’t wait for the pain to be gone to think and feel differently, think and feel differently first for no reason. That will absolutely flood the body with a healthy chemical release, and healing can start.

Move away from reacting, and into creating anew, regardless of what is going on in your body, mind, or life. Anyone who has healed has done this in some way, whether they realize it or not.

My meditation teacher in China once had a simple yet powerful teaching: He said ‘while you are in meditation, and throughout the day, just imagine your body is 6-7 years old! What would that feel like?’

I still use this idea daily!

It's not that this doesn't make any sense to me. It's that this has always sounded plausible, and so it's what I've tried again and again. I don't know how else I can try. Good chemicals, hope, confidence ... I wish. I have done the imagination exercise thousands of times. Ozanich and Moseley recommend something similar. I don't know @RogueWave. I appreciate you trying, and trying again. I do.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

It's to the point the Dr. Schubiner is recommending I try psychedelic drugs

 

[eskimoeskimo]

Nah, that's totally not me all day every day...

Me too. And out loud in this thread too, no less

 

[eskimoeskimo]

I really can't find any piece of me that still holds onto some hope that I can get better. I'm touched that you all should care so much to try to encourage me, but I can't find any hope. I've done this so many times.

 

[RogueWave]

I really can't find any piece of me that still holds onto some hope that I can get better. I'm touched that you all should care so much to try to encourage me, but I can't find any hope. I've done this so many times.

This is not a prescription, and it’s beyond this forum, but yes, in a professional, controlled environment, I’ve seen psychedelics work miracles in some very difficult cases.

However, make sure you are well-prepared (do your homework first!!), and understand that you will still need to ‘do the work’ that we are discussing here.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

This is not a prescription, and it’s beyond this forum, but yes, in a professional, controlled environment, I’ve seen psychedelics work miracles in some very difficult cases.

However, make sure you are well-prepared (do your homework first!!), and understand that you will still need to ‘do the work’ that we are discussing here.

I have done them already. Dr. Schubiner suggesting it now just freaked me out ... as it gives me the sense that he's grasping at straws and really has no idea why TMS stuff hasn't worked for me.

 

[Miller]

@eskimoeskimo I wouldn't let it freak you out to be honest, my husband has suggested psychedelics to me on multiple occasions. I think Dr Schubiner can see that it's difficult for you to keep putting the work in to change your brain without seeing results, so he's suggesting something that would have quite an immediate impact and give you the "refresh" that you need to start moving in the right direction. Some people find this easier than others.