What else is there - Seriously

[Balsa11]

My advice is to stop "trying" which really speaks to state of being. We are either in a state of resistance or a state of allowing. If you are going through the motions of life and doing everything but white knuckling it and gritting your teeth through the pain, you are actually still in resistance. It reminds me of alcoholics who stop drinking but are "dry drunks". They stopped the behavior but they have not changed internally. This is a concept that is quite hard to put in words and there's no "how to" manual but it's a letting go...a letting go of resistance. Not being attached to outcomes or results or external achievements. It's more like "I'm going to do it anyway just for the sake of doing xyz". That is when you are truly in the moment and that is ultimately real empowerment. Accepting and embracing the present moment without fear or worry. TMS lives and thrives in the past and the future. You disable the mechanism when you lose the fear and stay in the moment not fearing or focusing on the symptoms. When you do that you have rendered the TMS strategy useless.

But the question is, how do you do this so it's not just a temporary fix?

 

[Balsa11]

Hi @BonnieLass ,

I love what you wrote and totally concur. I've heard the term "terminally unique' before lol and it always made me laugh because I always felt that I was somehow different than the rest of the human race... an alien with weird problems that no one else had. This made me feel "apart' and "separate". It created a lot of suffering . The truth is we are all the same at the end of the day. We have unique personalities and lives but humans are designed a certain way and no one is excluded from getting better.

Hi @BloodMoon

False beliefs plays a massive role in TMS. Mostly getting better involves dismantling those false beliefs. The mental prison I had created for myself was constructed by bricks or false beliefs and brick by brick I had to tear those down. Each person will have to examine their beliefs. Some common ones come from the medical industry..."I have a pinched nerve, herniations, degenerative disc disease, fibromyalgia, Lyme disease, a damaged bladder, an incurable disease etc etc etc". There could be beliefs you have about your body..."This pain has been here for years and did a ton of damage, I'm too far gone to get better, if I eat chocolate I go into a flare, when it rains my pain worsens, if I sit in this position or without a pillow I'll be in pain etc etc etc etc etc". Other false beliefs could be "this tms stuff works for some people but not for me, I'll never be able to dance again or exercise, I have to restrict my movement because certain things could aggravate my condition, I'm broken, my life is over etc etc etc). Then we can have false beliefs about ourselves "I'll never be good enough, no one will ever want to date me. I'll keep getting rejected so why bother, I can't have the job I want because it's too risky, I have to stay in this job I hate because I'm lucky to have a job, I can't break up with this person because I can't be alone, I have to deal with my toxic parent because they gave me life etc etc etc". Most false beliefs are based in fear...fear of failure, fear of trying something new, fear of change. Challenging those fears also dissolves the false beliefs that created them in the first place.

As far as living authentically this will look different for each person. There were things in my life I have no control over and I have had to accept. My son is severely autistic and I'll be caring for him until I die. There's no way around it and I deal with the tantrums, the poop disasters, the health issues, the limitations and all the the things that come with autism on a daily basis but I have carved out ways of making it manageable rather than making my life a monument to autism. I have another son and a husband so there needs to be balance. I got help with my son, I let things go that aren't important and I try to focus on the positive things and joy he brings me as well. I don't pathologize him anymore the way I did when he was first diagnosed. I accept. I also got a divorce . That was my choice and I'm happily remarried now. I try to minimize stressors in my life by not dealing with toxic people, rarely watching the news and I have no trouble saying no to things either. I also do things I enjoy and find fun...no matter how trivial or ridiculous they are.

As far as the Prozac, I started taking it in 1991 when I was in my early 20's for anxiety. I have taken it on and off and it just helps my overall mood. I'm also much less irritable during that time of month. I have been off it during many periods and my pain did not come back. There isn't a direct correlation but there's an indirect correlation. When your brain is calmer and you feel more even keeled, your brain is less likely to feel stressed and activate the danger signals. I take a low dose but if I stopped tomorrow I would have zero fear of the pain returning and even if it did I know what to do. I have weird tms things that crop up once in a blue moon but I always shift mindset immediately and get right back on track. It's something I have total control of when it rears its head...and it will rear it's head because that's life and stress happens and things happen.

Hi @Tms_joe ,

Thank you for articulating something quite difficult to explain. Beneath thought, there is "state of being". One is either in a state of resistance or allowing and this is not an easy concept to explain...it's a way of being within yourself and in the world. I think Claire Weekes would say "Accept, accept, accept!". Radical acceptance.

But I don't understand how to do it

 

[Balsa11]

Nothing at all is lost by choosing to believe. Lots of people have done so and have experienced relief, and I don't want to discount that.

But I think this thread is for people who have already chosen to believe — sometimes for years — and have experienced your worst case scenario; nothing has happened. I think in that case it's kinder to acknowledge to them that, like everything else, TMS isn't a panacea. Sometimes the pain isn't TMS. This gives them the freedom and permission to move on from it when it's not helping, because otherwise they (and I) will torment themselves about "not doing it right." The problem with that way of thinking is that there's absolutely no way to tell the difference between "it's TMS but I didn't accept hard enough" and "it's not TMS." If TMS cannot possibly be excluded — if everything is TMS — then it cannot be real.

Maybe it's just another flareup of self-doubt.

 

[Balsa11]

I struggle with this too. At the end of the day, if I’m really honest with myself, I’m only practicing “outcome independence” because in the grand scheme of things I want my pain to stop. No other reason. I don’t know how to get out of that trap because obviously my brain knows at all times what I really want. It doesn’t matter how many times I say to myself “I don’t care, the important thing is that I do it anyway, or that I put together a life worth living regardless of pain. Stay or go, pain, I don’t care” .... all day long, but I’m nowhere close to meaning that. More than anything else in the world, I want this f*****g sensation to STOP.

I guess you can treat yourself to things just because they're fun or whatever.

 

[Balsa11]

I think this principle applies in this thread because the thought, "This works for everyone else but not for me," can be one of those defenses. Not saying it always is, but can be.

I'll look into that book. Thanks.

I get this same thought when my symptoms are bad. I think this is a MAJOR symptom trigger.

 

[Balsa11]

No question I'm full of rage, but it sure isn't repressed. The pain isn't protecting me from it, and I'm a hell of a lot angrier now than I was during the first few years of trying to address my pain from a TMS perspective.

I find setting up expectations or calendar watching makes it worse.

 

[Balsa11]

It's not like I'm spending my days doing some kind of TMS work and it's time to move on. I don't even know what TMS work is anymore. There is no prescription. Most people seemed to have dropped all the journaling and daily reminders stuff. The rest is just a hodge-podge of contradictory CBT techniques. I'm just trying to live some kind of a life. But it's not going well, because the pain fills my consciousness all the time. It makes me miserable all the time. Dropping TMS and moving on is what I've been trying to do. And it's a disaster. So I'm back here to ask if there is anything else. Anything.

Exactly! I get the "contradictory CBT techniques" vibe too but keeping a little evidence sheet has been helpful to know it's TMS.

 

[Balsa11]

The diversion isn't working. I'm consumed with the pain and the mental conflicts in my head. Is it always a defense mechanism? I don't see what the pain is keeping me from facing. And sometimes I don't understand this framing of the brain as being some other being apart from 'me' trying to protect me. My brain is me.

Also, I've noticed that when I become really consumed by some other worry, which happens often, the pain doesn't diminish. It's just in addition to.

It's burnout and exhaustion. It means your body is overwhelmed with the feelings and is generating pain to get you to rest and refresh and recharge etc. Not perfect but does that make sense? I wallow too much so what do I know lol

 

[Balsa11]

@Tms_joe, if you have a minute could you tell me more about what you did to get better (if you have gotten better)? Meditation?

Yep. It's magical in the times when your brain gets it.

 

[Balsa11]

Imo this is very profound and is getting the cogs whirring in my brain! In the early years (around a total of 10 years) of experiencing debilitating symptoms, I thought along the lines of: "if only the pain would go away, I could go to the theatre, cinema, go out for meals, go on holiday/vacation etc" but, at sometime at the beginning of the following 13 years of being disabled, I just adjusted my activities to those of a virtual 'shut-in'/housebound person (adjusted my activities to what I could tolerate pain-wise) and didn't think of what I was 'missing' out on. What you've made me realise is that I didn't actually enjoy going to the theatre, cinema and restaurants!...Not because I didn't like watching plays and movies and eating meals, but because of the things that one has to so often tolerate in connection with these things (e.g. flight delays, terrible service, people talking and rustling sweet/candy wrappers at the theatre and cinema, cramped and uncomfortable theatre seats etc) that spoiled these experiences for me. I meditate but I'm not more tolerant as a result, although I have recently found that I'm somewhat more accepting of life's irritations and disappointments when I take Eckhart Tolle's advice to "Accept this moment as if you had chosen it".

Yeahhh it's focusing on the discomfort instead of the good things. I do this a lot even when I don't have a flare up. TMS fixation goes brrr

 

[Balsa11]

No no, please don't worry about that at all. I don't feel that way in the slightest, and I'm inured against any knocks at this point. I only care about getting better. I appreciate your responses.



I'm really doubtful about the repressed rage / diversion mechanism theory these days. The more I've learned about OCD (a disorder which I have), health anxiety (ditto), and neural circuitry in general, the more quaint and outdated the rage theory seems. I don't doubt that I've got huge stores of hidden rage (though I really do believe I'm quite in touch with what the basic flavor(s) of all that rage is/are). Okay, now what? I've journaled til I'm blue in the face more times than I can count. I've spent a small fortune on therapy. I've tried to speak to my subconscious, my inner child, give it what it needs, sooth, etc. Sarno said one only has to acknowledge it. Okay, I acknowledge it. Now what? To be honest, the Freudian aspect of Sarno was always a giant red flag for me. I believe Freud was a pretty nutty bloke, and the subconscious theory has always been dubious at best (to me).

It is my strong impression that, with a few notable exceptions, most of the tms 'experts' are moving away from the repressed rage stuff. Dr. Schubiner for example sometimes recommends doing some journaling or addressing some emotional stuff, but that is clearly not where the emphasis is. Now the emphasis seems to be letting go of the obsession and refocusing on life. That the pain is 'learned' in the brain and fear perpetuates it. And that there is physical tension resulting from anxiety. Which is basically just a behavioral A.C.T. approach. Which is a little confusing to me because ACT has been around forever, and definitely doesn't promise to be able to diminish pain, only to make life with pain more manageable, bearable, productive.




My dreams are damned easy to interpret. They are a straightforward story of insecurity, rejection, embarrassment, health scares, accelerated aging, and social failings.

Thinking about this is exhausting and painful. Don't get so hung up on the past and focus on the opportunities of the present. In these times, it's a miracle to be alive, even if we're still a bit burnt out, bored, confused, tired, scared etc. Don't worry about aging. Social failings can lead to social successes. Learn how to handle the common problem of rejection and embarrassment by listening to others' stories (about less difficult problems cuz let's be honest I'd rather face anxiety over physical pain, wouldn't you?) Don't put your brain through the pain of ruminating over the past. Please don't endure this alone. We have to be the light in the darkness- how else can we find the way out? Only making yourself feel better emotionally will make some kind of a difference. Check out the posts of @balto , @plum , and @Dorado for motivation.


They're so on the nose it's almost boring (if they weren't so anxiety inducing). That's what I mean when I say I know what the ingredients of my rage are. But that awareness hasn't done anything for me. My symptoms started during a painful breakup. Those dots looks all of 5 minutes to connect in, oh... 2012. I've written volumes on the subject, with id-abandon. There is no more material there. Changed nothing.

 

[miffybunny]

But the question is, how do you do this so it's not just a temporary fix?

When you have an unwavering belief in something and you have shifted mindset, you have essentially "become" another person (or actually your true self). It's an inside job that is profound, as opposed to a temporary change in behavior. Often changing our state of being requires tons of repetition and practice. It's usually a gradual process. We need to examine the real fear behind your question. Are you afraid of "failure" and subsequent disappointment? Are you hedging your bets so as to avoid that feared disappointment ? Is there doubt or lack of certainty about the TMS diagnosis and if the approach actually works? These are things that need to be addressed and confronted head-on . It really speaks to getting off the fence, keeping an open mind, committing yourself and believing in yourself.

 

[Kozas]

I'm starting to feel like @eskimoeskimo
How long is enough? I have pain since 2011, every minute of every day of my life since then. I don't even know what it means to feel good anymore. I know about TMS for what like 3-4 years. Nothing helps, pain doesn't even change a little bit. It seems like there's no hope for people like me. Maybe it works for backpain, and not for abdominal TMJ/teeth sensitivity. I don't know. I'm just tired.

 

[miffybunny]

I'm starting to feel like @eskimoeskimo
How long is enough? I have pain since 2011, every minute of every day of my life since then. I don't even know what it means to feel good anymore. I know about TMS for what like 3-4 years. Nothing helps, pain doesn't even change a little bit. It seems like there's no hope for people like me. Maybe it works for backpain, and not for abdominal TMJ/teeth sensitivity. I don't know. I'm just tired.

It's not about the pain. The pain and symptoms are simply messengers. This is not a journey to eliminate pain. The journey is an emotional (and spiritual imo) one that you have to be willing to address. Your body keeps calling out to you but it's easier to focus on the symptoms than the underlying issues. When you stop caring about the symptoms and start caring more about your actual life, the tms ceases to have a purpose. This is the truth and it really is as simple as that. It's not about figuring out the symptoms or triggers. All of that is besides the point. We were not put on this earth to suffer for the sake of suffering. It's about living your life as your authentic self...finding joy, meaning, and love. Chronic pain is not normal and not the natural state. It's your body's way of crying out for attention ...for you to pay attention to your feelings, allow yourself to feel them, and live according to your own heart's desires. I love this quote by John O'Donohue, and it sums up the journey for me:

"May I have the courage today
To live the life I would love,
To postpone my dream no longer,
But do at last what I came here for
and waste my heart on fear no more."

 

[Balsa11]

I'm starting to feel like @eskimoeskimo
How long is enough? I have pain since 2011, every minute of every day of my life since then. I don't even know what it means to feel good anymore. I know about TMS for what like 3-4 years. Nothing helps, pain doesn't even change a little bit. It seems like there's no hope for people like me. Maybe it works for backpain, and not for abdominal TMJ/teeth sensitivity. I don't know. I'm just tired.

No it's just a more stubborn form of TMS. I've had those things.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

It's not about the pain. The pain and symptoms are simply messengers. This is not a journey to eliminate pain. The journey is an emotional (and spiritual imo) one that you have to be willing to address. Your body keeps calling out to you but it's easier to focus on the symptoms than the underlying issues. When you stop caring about the symptoms and start caring more about your actual life, the tms ceases to have a purpose. This is the truth and it really is as simple as that. It's not about figuring out the symptoms or triggers. All of that is besides the point. We were not put on this earth to suffer for the sake of suffering. It's about living your life as your authentic self...finding joy, meaning, and love. Chronic pain is not normal and not the natural state. It's your body's way of crying out for attention ...for you to pay attention to your feelings, allow yourself to feel them, and live according to your own heart's desires. I love this quote by John O'Donohue, and it sums up the journey for me:

"May I have the courage today
To live the life I would love,
To postpone my dream no longer,
But do at last what I came here for
and waste my heart on fear no more."

Great that this worked for, but it does not work for everyone. Not everyone’s experience is the same as yours.

 

[miffybunny]

@eskimoeskimo ,

It's not a question of "something working". Again, that is besides the point. It comes down to knowing yourself and your own personal journey. Again, it is not about the pain or symptoms. It's about your life. Simple? Yes. Easy? No. Everyone is capable of healing and living a fulfilling life. No one is excluded from that truth. THAT is my message and I think your negativity and naysaying is honestly doing a disservice to others here. Health and happiness is our birthright. It's up to each person to take ownership of their own life.

 

[eskimoeskimo]

@eskimoeskimo ,

It's not a question of "something working". Again, that is besides the point. It comes down to knowing yourself and your own personal journey. Again, it is not about the pain or symptoms. It's about your life. Simple? Yes. Easy? No. Everyone is capable of healing and living a fulfilling life. No one is excluded from that truth. THAT is my message and I think your negativity and naysaying is honestly doing a disservice to others here. Health and happiness is our birthright. It's up to each person to take ownership of their own life.

I think telling every single person that they have TMS and that they will get better once they “take ownership of their own life” is a disservice to others. False hope is not a kindness.

 

[miffybunny]

Not sure how you extrapolated that from my comment. I never said everyone has TMS and I never said everyone gets better. I stated that within the context of TMS, everyone is capable of getting better and living a happy life. This is not about symptoms, it's about one's LIFE. For others who may be reading here, describing my experience, as well as the experience of millions of people who got better using the mind body approach of Dr. Sarno, as "false hope" (as if the wiki was some kind of snake oil), is a great disservice and frankly unkind on your part. If this approach is not for you, so be it, but why then come here to spread negativity to others seeking help and hope?

 

[eskimoeskimo]

If this approach is not for you, so be it, but why then come here to spread negativity to others seeking help and hope?

Perhaps you didn't notice, but this is my thread, which I started by asking if anybody has any ideas for something else to try. If the answer is 'no,' so be it. But the thread has been hijacked by people advocating the usual TMS stuff. My aim is not to spread negativity, it's to find help. There are plenty of other threads where you can explain your take on TMS, but I don't see how it applies here.

I did email admin multiple times asking for my account and all of my messages and threads to be deleted, but have received no response. I also turned off notifications but that didn't work, so I still get notified every time someone responds to one of my threads and, out of desperation, sometimes I check. It's frustrating to be told, in response to a plea for help and different ideas, that health and happiness are my birthright, that everyone is capable of healing, that I just need to discover my personal journey and live authentically. It seems to me like you're proselytizing rather than responding to the specific thread.