TMS equivalent like depression and addictions

Alisa_88

Alisa_88

Newcomer
Hi
I've recovered from all the pain I had since I started the program a year ago (I had all kind of disable pain for many years).
But sadly it's been months now that I've been eaten alive by depression, addictions and even some form of dissociation. I have been caught in a spirale and I don't know how to get out of this before it's too late. I don't think I ever experienced anything that bad, although I was once like that when I was very young and had no pain. It's like I automatically came back to were I started my adult life.

I think it's dangerous when someone have pain for years to just remove it, it might hide something far more uglier.

I do not seem to see how I could apply the same TMS techniques to get better now, it is too different. When you have physical pain you just want it to go away, but when your addictions become your coping mechanism and that you have such a strong hopelessness and don't want to do anything in life how would you even want to stop the only thing that makes you feel good, even if it's going to ruin you ?

That is the problem, to stop the TMS pain you have to want it but who wouldn't want to get rid of foot pain ? but when it's mental condition that stops you from wanting to live, and when you have to struggle to stop doing what makes you feel good, how could any TMS technics work ?

If anyone have suggestions... I've really hit rock bottom.
 
I addressed this in your other post.
Do you really feel good?
If you have an addiction and are depressed, I'd say that this combo isn't working for you.
I think you are simply having a type of symptom imperative and you have to stop thinking that you have no control over it. This is simply another defense so that you don't feel your emotions, don't think about the hard things in life and instead wallow. What it really means is that you simply aren't quite yet done with the work - and the good news is that it DID work for your pain, and can work for your other symptoms.
You need to learn to get out of your self-victimizing mindset, which is exactly what addiction is. When you can drop that feeling of helplessness and that you are controlled by a substance or ANYTHING outside of your own self, you will begin to recognize that it is all choice. Your TMS mind will tell you it's hard, it's impossible it must be something different (just like when you thought your foot pain was only physical or that overcoming it was hopeless before you knew about TMS).
I had depression and anxiety last year while doing TMS work. My brain was simply in a panic about uncovering some horrible secret, or some horrible truth that I was not who I am. That was utter hogwash, a lie. I had to retrain my brain to see that I was PERFECTLY FINE mentally, emotionally and physically. There were no deep dark secrets hiding around the corner (for a few of us there is, that's what therapy is for) but my brain was simply searching for a reason to hang on to these things and keep me safe and small and hiding and "not normal". It is keeping you from going to the next level with your TMS work.
I'm sorry for your suffering, this sh*t is hard!

What type of TMS work have you done that helped you deal with the foot pain?
 
I am 100% with @Cactusflower, @Alisa_88. I don't feel like I need to add anything, instead I would urge you to read Cactusflower's post more than once, slowly and mindfully. I think that on the other thread she also recommended something from Dr Hanscom on the topic, and although I haven't read it, I can tell you that when it comes to depression, he knows what he's talking about from personal as well as clinical experience.
 
All psychological defenses (whether it's physical pain, addictions, ocd etc. etc.) are just ways of avoiding the profoundly negative core beliefs we have about ourselves. The only way to break free from our defenses, that ultimately break us down and form our hellish prison, is to address the causal level... the original emotional wounds that were inflicted by our parents in some way , shape, or form (whether it was overt, covert, subtle or obvious). Trauma responses from childhood follow us into adulthood if they aren't dealt with. Depression is just the conviction that you are broken and can't better. It's a false belief. That's no different than TMS. Dr. Sarno was trauma informed and he understood the roots of repression and tms. My advice is to find a coach or therapist who is trauma informed and can work with you through the lens of attachment theory. This tms journey, is not just about symptom relief, it's about life relief and the bookend to trauma is power. Rage can often be the rocket fuel for change and deciding that you are worthy and worth fighting for.
 
miffybunny said:
This tms journey, is not just about symptom relief, it's about life relief and the bookend to trauma is power. Rage can often be the rocket fuel for change and deciding that you are worthy and worth fighting for.
Click to expand...
Wow, that’s a quote, if there ever was one!!!
 
@Alisa_88,
I have had severe depression on and off since I was 13. I am much older now, and for years, have been able to manage it through meds, therapy, mindset, exercise or any combo of those.

Since finding Dr. Sarno, I now believe that depression is 100 percent another form of TMS. You can cure it the same way you heal any symptom. Dr. Sarno’s book, The Divided Mind, talks a lot about TMS symptoms that aren’t necessarily pain- related. Although, I’d argue with anyone that severe or even mild depression is indeed painful. Terrifying, actually. I call it Black Cotton. Your brain just can’t find the light.

Some people say that depression is “anger turned inward.” This is an old saying. But it fits perfectly with TMS, which is a symptom caused by your subconscious brain to distract you from your rage. Your rage is stuck inward. The cure is to get it out.

Overall, I’d say you have not licked your TMS. It just circled around with this new symptom. And beware of anxiety. Because that is a twin sister to depression. They take turns coming to the front. It’s often one or the other. Dissociation is a form of anxiety. Addictions, in my opinion, are just a way to try and curtail the severe mental pain of depression. If feels gripping because the depression is overwhelming and you are trying to self medicate.

So so sorry to hear you are depressed. Take it seriously! You might need professional help to manage it. It actually can kill people. It’s no joke. You are ahead of the game because you have had success healing TMS. Go back to the drawing board. What are you angry about? Get that anger out of you and onto the page. Maybe look at what in your current life is making you really angry and feeling trapped. There is nothing in this life that is worth dying over. Make a change if you have to.

All the best to you!
 
Cactusflower said:
I addressed this in your other post.
Do you really feel good?
If you have an addiction and are depressed, I'd say that this combo isn't working for you.
I think you are simply having a type of symptom imperative and you have to stop thinking that you have no control over it. This is simply another defense so that you don't feel your emotions, don't think about the hard things in life and instead wallow. What it really means is that you simply aren't quite yet done with the work - and the good news is that it DID work for your pain, and can work for your other symptoms.
You need to learn to get out of your self-victimizing mindset, which is exactly what addiction is. When you can drop that feeling of helplessness and that you are controlled by a substance or ANYTHING outside of your own self, you will begin to recognize that it is all choice. Your TMS mind will tell you it's hard, it's impossible it must be something different (just like when you thought your foot pain was only physical or that overcoming it was hopeless before you knew about TMS).
I had depression and anxiety last year while doing TMS work. My brain was simply in a panic about uncovering some horrible secret, or some horrible truth that I was not who I am. That was utter hogwash, a lie. I had to retrain my brain to see that I was PERFECTLY FINE mentally, emotionally and physically. There were no deep dark secrets hiding around the corner (for a few of us there is, that's what therapy is for) but my brain was simply searching for a reason to hang on to these things and keep me safe and small and hiding and "not normal". It is keeping you from going to the next level with your TMS work.
I'm sorry for your suffering, this sh*t is hard!

What type of TMS work have you done that helped you deal with the foot pain?
Click to expand...


Thanks for taking time to reply. I am not sure what you mean but what tms work I did for my feet? Not only my feet, I just remove every physical pain I have by knowing it is just neuro plastic and doesn’t come from my body and show it to myself with basic tms technics. 100% efficient. You probably know the work if you are on this forum.

it’s completely different when you start to not want to live anymore for many reasons. If you are in pain the motivation is to get rid of the pain. If you have absolutely nothing to live for, it’s not just saying “you are depressed” or “tms is depression” , it doesn’t matter, what matter is that you don’t want to get better cause you don’t wan t to live. It’s all about wanting. So how could I apply the tms technic to make myself want to live ? The recovery process is completely different. I think at that point I would just need to be put somewhere and. forced to do things, if you don’t have any choice you do and might chance your mindset. It’s all about wanting. No desire to do so = no recovery.
 
Diana-M said:
@Alisa_88,
I have had severe depression on and off since I was 13. I am much older now, and for years, have been able to manage it through meds, therapy, mindset, exercise or any combo of those.

Since finding Dr. Sarno, I now believe that depression is 100 percent another form of TMS. You can cure it the same way you heal any symptom. Dr. Sarno’s book, The Divided Mind, talks a lot about TMS symptoms that aren’t necessarily pain- related. Although, I’d argue with anyone that severe or even mild depression is indeed painful. Terrifying, actually. I call it Black Cotton. Your brain just can’t find the light.

Some people say that depression is “anger turned inward.” This is an old saying. But it fits perfectly with TMS, which is a symptom caused by your subconscious brain to distract you from your rage. Your rage is stuck inward. The cure is to get it out.

Overall, I’d say you have not licked your TMS. It just circled around with this new symptom. And beware of anxiety. Because that is a twin sister to depression. They take turns coming to the front. It’s often one or the other. Dissociation is a form of anxiety. Addictions, in my opinion, are just a way to try and curtail the severe mental pain of depression. If feels gripping because the depression is overwhelming and you are trying to self medicate.

So so sorry to hear you are depressed. Take it seriously! You might need professional help to manage it. It actually can kill people. It’s no joke. You are ahead of the game because you have had success healing TMS. Go back to the drawing board. What are you angry about? Get that anger out of you and onto the page. Maybe look at what in your current life is making you really angry and feeling trapped. There is nothing in this life that is worth dying over. Make a change if you have to.

All the best to you!
Click to expand...
I do not really consider having depression actually it’s not that… but I am not bold enough to talk about it here. It’s more about deep frustration and no desire at all to live anymore.

I still have classic pain tms symptoms that try to come sometimes but I am so trained at making them go away it’s crazy. I am also very frustrating, how do you guys deal with knowing how to shut pain like that and no one believe you ? Like you know a secret and everyone around you having pain goes to doctors that lie to them, and you know how to remove the pain but can’t help them cause they don’t believe you.

knowing how easy it is to get rid of tms pain has made me feel disgusted about life. This is one of the rage. I’m curious to hear how people deal with that here.
 
I have a question for everyone how to you deal with knowing about tms and how easy is it to get rid of any pain and no one believes you? It’s a part of why I can’t deal with life anymore. Can’t here doctors or physical therapist on tiktok or aquintances posting about their back pain or such when I know how easy it is to get rid of it as I got rid of 100s of problems so easily.. I am disgusted. All these people pretending to be professional and lying. People being podologues and prescribing insoles no one needs… and being called a liar if I tell me how to do. How on earth can you love with that? I am profoundly disgusted. The whole reason for that is mainly money of course, but I feel like their must be another reason. Maybe because people need to feel their pain like it can be quite dangerous to remove them and just face yourself. Like I had the feeling it just uncovered my evil self. It’s very scary. So I don’t know what to make of all of it. I would like to know how you all deal with knowing the truth when no one cares or believe you. Thanks
 
You have been able to “shut down pain” every time but it doesn’t sound like you have dealt with the emotional and psychological side of TMS. The triggers are still sending your nervous system into fight/flight .. you are getting “scared”.
Is being frightened of life and living really what is “making you not want to live anymore”? I think you posting on this forum to ask is showing a cry for help. That you do have some desire to live, and that just like pain is a distraction, your current thought pattern is merely a distraction. You are feeling powerless over these thoughts just as you once felt powerless over the pain. For myself, reducing or getting rid of chronic pain has only ever been part of my TMS goal, there is so much more to doing this work, and my goal has been to experience life more fully while not having chronic pain. I have to do the inner work to live life more fully.
 
@Alisa_88 I agree with Cactusflower. I'm also going to suggest that you are showing signs of misplaced rage, indicating that you have never done the emotional work to truly be able to recover.

The majority of people with chronic physical or mental pain, are either unable or unwilling to do the emotional work, because it is too hard, too terrifying, and it makes them feel unsafe. This is why they keep seeking alternative treatments, because they crave an easy answer.

You see these people as stupid and/or lazy.

The practitioners achieve plenty of short-term placebo responses, so they keep trying to provide the easy answer that patients crave. You see them as greedy fakers.

You ask, how do we deal with knowing this? My answer is that I ACCEPT that I have no control. I also accept that plenty of practitioners truly believe they are doing their best. I also know and accept that the people seeking help are very desperate, and that they were not raised to understand the mindbody connection.

I accept that as human beings, we are essentially flawed. All we can do is live our lives and make our own individual peace, and do the best we can.

@Alisa_88, your problem is that you don't accept. You want to kick and scream and throw a tantrum like a child and tell everybody that they are terrible human beings and threaten to show them how awful stupid and greedy they all are, by doing something to make them PAY ATTENTION, but of course the other side of your anger and desperation is knowing that whatever you do won't actually make any difference.

You are experiencing a massive conflict of emotions, because you have never done the deeper emotional work on yourself.

The level of your rage is beyond my personal capability to handle. I looked up "misplaced anger" and found a lot of information. There's an overview in this article https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/anger#mental-health-conditions-and-anger (Anger)

I suggest that you seek psychotherapy with a therapist who understands the connection between mental pain, repression and physical symptoms. I suspect that whatever you are repressing is too dangerous for you to manage without professional help.
 
It really sounds to me like you do have depression. Most people with TMS sooner or later have to deal with their emotions. You might have to, too. A therapist can be a help. Or doing a lot of journaling. But if you don’t want to live, that’s not a good place. You might need professional help. There no shame in that.
 
PS, @Alisa_88 - I strongly urge you to stay off of social media. It is toxic and it is obviously feeding your rage - you might be addicted to this rage, in fact.

I'll tell you what enrages me, which is just about everything reported in the news. I don't ever watch television news, and I only subscribe to news emails so I can be minimally aware of what's going on, but that way I only click on things I'm willing to learn more about. I have friends who are addicted to the constant hyped-up cycle of television or radio news, and I won't let them talk to me about it. I have taken control.
 
Alisa_88 said:
knowing how easy it is to get rid of tms pain has made me feel disgusted about life.
Click to expand...
Well, it used to give me a sense of anger and rage like that of which you speak, but The universe is largely self correcting. Right when I think i have it all figured out, I get a relapse that is quite humbling...and then 'Physician, Heal thyself!'

I read your story. If I understand your chronology correctly you got over the symptoms in 2023?

I used to be a scenic artist In Hollywood working on films. Part of my recovery was coming to the honest truth...I did it cause it was the best $ I could get. I couldn't give two shits about Hollywood and I don't even watch movies or TV.. I oftentimes didn't even know the name of the film I was working on.."Where's my check so I can get out of here?". I got good at it..I was running small films before I was 30...and my back was killing me

What I DID care about was Music and working all of those hours kept me from it...Unlike you , even though I was involved in a creative process, it wasn't the one I wanted to be involved in...I just got good at it out of necessity. Then, I got an offer to make music for $$$...but it was for the FILM industry so I quit that too! I HATE Hollywood with every fiber of my being...I went back to painting (ouch, my soul hurts)

So, when I was back at work, Now Pain free, I was almost having fist fights with the other Men I worked with. I was probably gonna go to jail or be fired or both if I didn't get help...now that the pain was gone, nothing was 'masking' it. So, I asked for help and spent time with a therapist and that did HELP. I didn't have unlimited cash so I told him we better get something done, because I wasn't going to have a lifetime subscription to rent-a-friend. He taught me some techniques to keep from drowning in my own head...and a lot of other teachers I have met on the way

The despondency I hear in your post reminds me very much of where I was, but being male, I just was gonna take it out in violence rather than depression. And, I also have dealt with serious addiction issues...all the big bogey monster ones.

I have been having small relapses lately and I am also once again doing the job I did back in Hollywood : all painting and artsy stuff., except for a local establishment that caters to the mega-wealthy....It just hit me yesterday reviewing my old book that the externals and internal reactions are very similar...I am 'allegedly' skilled, but would rather be home playing guitar and studying classical music...but the money...but my ego...but...but..but HELP!

I am gonna say to you what somebody once said to me and you might not like it...but people like Us? We HAVE to find God or a spiritual way of life or we get sucked down the whirlpool quickly. My spiritual life isn't about 'believing' the right thing. It's an existential every minute "God you better help me or I am totally fucked" experience.

I hope you can latch on to something soon. You are right...getting out of physical pain wasn't that hard becuase of Sarno..getting out of existential pain? Haven't gotten there yet, but I have had sniffs...

peace
 
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