The question of age

Felis

Felis

New Member
Hi there to all of you
I'm new to this forum but have known about Dr Sarno's technique for a very long time. When I was in my 30s due to back problems, what the doctors called a herniated disc, after having two babies, I happened upon his book in Berne, Switzerland.
Now I'm 61 and have very slowly, over about two years or so, starting with only a little burning sensation between my upper ribs on the right hand side when running, developed a burning sensation especially between the 2nd and 3rd rib. But not always only there, and not in all positions.
I reported back to my oncologist, because I was treated for breast cancer in 2019 and am having regular exams twice per year. He's really always erring on the careful side rather but in this case sent me off to the orthopaedic surgeon. Who in turn sent me for an x-ray, again to be on the safe side. Gave me a couple of injections, speaking of lots of tension, pushed on my upper back – and said, spondylosis, degenerative process in the breast vertebra, osteochondrosis, beginning arthrosis of the right shoulder, all could cause the pain – what else is new if you're making an x-ray at my age. And as I had conservatively treated frozen shoulder on both sides in 2015 and 2016, I wasn't too surprised. However, no treatment.

The question of age came up time and again: I see that many people here are younger. And somehow, even though I exercise et cetera, it seems obvious that aging could mean pain, as an osteopath, who I turned next to, explained to me. I was not satisfied.


So, here I am, quite aware of the techniques that need to be used here. Engaging in the procedures and daily exercise, writing et cetera which I do anyhow because I am a writer amongst others and journal a lot.
I'm in Austria and while Costochondritis is more well-known in the English speaking world, here really not.
So, my question: I'm used to doing dance aerobics et cetera but at the moment not really the thing to do because it aggravates the pain.
What about the age question do we have to live with a certain amount of pain while aging? Do we have to accept twinges or real pain?
Sorry for the long post - I would be really happy to get some thoughts
 
Felis said:
Do we have to accept twinges or real pain?
Click to expand...
I turn 59 next month. NO. I have no 'real' pain. Even the few I was willing to put up with have gotten chased out of me.
I work on my hands and knees and in impossible positions on ladders. I can still carry a whole sheet of drywall alone and I lift weights, play baseball,etc,etc... with no pain.
If I get pain, it always means somethings wrong emotionally/psychologically.

I also had a
Felis said:
burning sensation between my upper ribs on the right hand side when running
Click to expand...
...mine usually came towards the end of a work day. I was told it was my Gall bladder. I went and had it checked and they said it had to come out. Not having 10k dollars lying around I said "Ok...I'll keep an eye on it". I was also given scary warnings about it killing me via shutting down my pancreas....BUT, I went online and read stories of people having it removed and still having that sensation, and of course my first thought was 'TMS'
Off topic, it was also around this time I found out via an MRI that I had a broken vertebrae in my back from a fall the previous year...and I NEVER had pain from it!

I noticed it almost exclusively bugged at the END of stressful workdays.It also mostly bugged when I was NOT doing stuff..e.g. moving around a lot. I Also noticed that when it came, my 'normal' end of the day stiffness wasn't there....AHHHa! serving as a distraction!!!!!!

Since then I really focused on that 'end of the day stiffness' ...since it wasn't pain per se, I had allowed it to remain for years without dealing with it via the Sarno method (turning my mind to a recurrent source of irritation pg 77 Healing Back Pain)

Well, now THAT has gone away too.

Each time we move into one of these it is an expedition into the inner part of our lives...it is not comfortable and a lot of it is scary and depressing...I am really really glad I know about the TMS repertoire and all of its manifestations because I have no time, money or patience to deal with 'real' problems....if I had had my gall bladder out I would imagine I'd still have this problem....I DID have money to have certain Teeth fixed and replaced and then still had to work through the TMS and know that I got 'tricked' into thinking certain uncomfortable things were 'real'...40 thousand dollars later, and missing a few teeth
 
Thanks for your input, @Baseball65 ! All of this really does sound encouraging and seems to mean that one has to always delve deeper into the emotions. I have already realised that things that I knew about came up again but this time around I felt them. Not always pleasant, efficient, however. I'll keep going into things that I thought were already solved.
 
Felis said:
Thanks for your input, @Baseball65 ! All of this really does sound encouraging and seems to mean that one has to always delve deeper into the emotions. I have already realised that things that I knew about came up again but this time around I felt them. Not always pleasant, efficient, however. I'll keep going into things that I thought were already solved.
Click to expand...
Hi Felis, lots of folks in their 60s on here. TMS does creep back often, it seems. We are all about fighting it off.
 
Felis said:
Now I'm 61 . . . . the orthopaedic surgeon . . . said, spondylosis, degenerative process in the breast vertebra, osteochondrosis, beginning arthrosis of the right shoulder, all could cause the pain – what else is new if you're making an x-ray at my age.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. A musculoskeletal imaging study of people with no--i.e., zero--back pain published in The American Journal of Neuroradiology reported that with respect to people in their 60s that 88% had disk degeneration, 69% had disk bulge, 38% had disk protrusion, 25% had annular fissure, 50% had facet degeneration, and 23% had spondylolisthesis.

I had one form or another of TMS starting in childhood, though I did not realize that until I was 51 when Sarno published Healing Back Pain. I read it, applied it, and ended recurring low back pain that had begun when I was 27. Shortly thereafter, I got recurring knee pain that lasted more than two decades. When I retired at age 70, I got persistent neck pain that took me several months to stop. I am now 84 and have had no TMS symptoms at all for the last dozen years or more.

As you no doubt know, Sarno regarded repressed anger as the major cause of TMS. He wrote in his The Divided Mind book: “A subtle but important source of inner anger in some people is the fact that they are getting old and also that they are mortal. This is more common than you would think. Consciously we rationalize; unconsciously we are enraged.” Fortunately, I have never been in that group of “some people.” I don’t fear my mortality. That is not because of a religious view of everlasting life. I view it as pragmatism to decline to sweat what is inevitable. Sarno might say my pragmatism is just an instance of rationalizing unconscious anger about my mortality. My response would be, “It works.”
 
Duggit said:
Absolutely. A musculoskeletal imaging study of people with no--i.e., zero--back pain published in The American Journal of Neuroradiology reported that with respect to people in their 60s that 88% had disk degeneration, 69% had disk bulge, 38% had disk protrusion, 25% had annular fissure, 50% had facet degeneration, and 23% had spondylolisthesis.

I had one form or another of TMS starting in childhood, though I did not realize that until I was 51 when Sarno published Healing Back Pain. I read it, applied it, and ended recurring low back pain that had begun when I was 27. Shortly thereafter, I got recurring knee pain that lasted more than two decades. When I retired at age 70, I got persistent neck pain that took me several months to stop. I am now 84 and have had no TMS symptoms at all for the last dozen years or more.

As you no doubt know, Sarno regarded repressed anger as the major cause of TMS. He wrote in his The Divided Mind book: “A subtle but important source of inner anger in some people is the fact that they are getting old and also that they are mortal. This is more common than you would think. Consciously we rationalize; unconsciously we are enraged.” Fortunately, I have never been in that group of “some people.” I don’t fear my mortality. That is not because of a religious view of everlasting life. I view it as pragmatism to decline to sweat what is inevitable. Sarno might say my pragmatism is just an instance of rationalizing unconscious anger about my mortality. My response would be, “It works.”
Click to expand...
Thank you so much, @Duggit , for sharing your insight on this! Actually, age as such is a very relaxing thing for me - due to my story I'm quite simply grateful and glad to be here. I've also realized that anger might not be my main issue any longer. I did work on this a lot when I was ill in 2019.
However, anxiety is a different story and I experience very revealing moments as to that in. my journaling now.
It is very reassuring for me that people like you worked their issues to the point of being quite simply fine nowadays. Thanks so much for this!
 
JanAtheCPA said:
Fear of aging and mortality were the triggers for my TMS crisis in 2011, the year I turned 60. I only realized "after Sarno" that I'd had mild TMS off and on my whole life.

Brush off your journaling skills (Nicole Sachs has a great quick tutorial at https://www.yourbreakawake.com/journalspeak (JournalSpeak | BreakAwake by Nicole Sachs)) and open up your unconscious emotions about aging!
Click to expand...
@JanAtheCPA - uff, seems like I have my work cut out on that issue, too. Many things seem to run down to the common denominator of fear...
 
Acknowledging and facing is ultimately freeing!

Aging is certainly not for sissies, but I'm in waaaay better shape at 73 than I was at 60 - or at 60 BS (Before Sarno). And look at @Duggit! He's my inspiration for the next decade or so!

PS, Duggit - after all this time, I had no idea of your age until your most recent posts - I assumed you were younger than me :D
 
@JanAtheCPA and @Duggit I very much appreciate the way both of you answered - it opens up new venues for me. It seems that age we do, however, we can decide how we go about this. I've come to be very careful about what pictures and thoughts I go with. Also true for what I'm learning on TMS.
 
Duggit said:
I am now 84 and have had no TMS symptoms at all for the last dozen years or more.
Click to expand...
and of course you know that your experience aligns perfectly with Sarno's original observations that caused him to second guess what he had learned as a 'normal' back doctor...
His observation was that back pain sufferers tended to taper off as they aged...if it were caused by 'degeneration' that wouldn't be the case at all...Most of his patients were bunched up in the 'years of responsibility' (30's-60's)

I already have had some Issues with anger about aging. I don't think I could ever 'retire'..I had a horrible TMS break out when my kids no longer needed me in my 40's...I could only imagine how angry I might get if I stopped working completely. I can only assume I am normal, but a lot of my 'aha' moments with healing have come after acknowledging I am angry about not being needed. or at least feeling not needed.
 
Ah, yes, aging is an issue. I'm 69 and it is on my mind daily. It's not so much a fear of mortality, but rather after I retired, the loss of feeling competent at something, as well as losing the feeling of being a contributing member of society. In other words, I feel rather useless, and it is hard on my self esteem. I have done volunteer work since retiring, but it's not the same. I very much identified with my career, and have floundered without it. Of course, this can lead to TMS, so I journal about it and it helps.
 
Ellen said:
Ah, yes, aging is an issue. I'm 69 and it is on my mind daily. It's not so much a fear of mortality, but rather after I retired, the loss of feeling competent at something, as well as losing the feeling of being a contributing member of society. In other words, I feel rather useless, and it is hard on my self esteem. I have done volunteer work since retiring, but it's not the same. I very much identified with my career, and have floundered without it. Of course, this can lead to TMS, so I journal about it and it helps.
Click to expand...
I really identify with everything you are saying, Ellen. I am 65 and can’t work now because of TMS. I get a lot of self esteem from working and I wanted to basically do it until I drop. My grandfather was a construction foreman and he retired at 65. Couldn’t stand it and went back to work a year later. He worked til he died at 74. It made an impression on me that he loved to work and he loved what he did. I guess I’m his granddaughter because now I understand!
 
Hi!
Some things to note-

a. You COULD argue that the metabolic affects of aging tissue are more likely to trigger nociceptors (potential danger receptors) to fire to the spinal cord and brain. Not that there is actually true danger.

b. Our subconscious becomes more and more consolidated as we get older unless we consciously do work to change these patterns. Let’s say we learnt early on that we had to work hard and do things perfectly to be loved and accepted. Now add in stressors that come to light with aging such as retirement, fear of death, death of parents. Suddenly the world can feel like a scarier place to the subconscious.
And if we are still holding onto those original patterns (because why would we even know they are there), they often aren’t enough to starve off the possibility of emotions arising beneath. Hence otherwise safe info from the body is far, far more likely to be perceived as a threat because sensory info is relayed through these areas of the brain associated with primitive survival. And hence our emotions are more likely to arise, which is deemed threatening in itself to our primitive survival brain.
 
Thank you @JennieToomey for your detailed post on aging. I definitely agree that nowadays, also after my husband's death, I've become even more conscientious and diligent in administrating things et cetera.
Processing emotions also was important when I had cancer in 2019. However, after that, it has become more difficult to trust my body wisdom and focus an emotion as a reason for pain, even after having had an x-ray because of the pain in that rib region.
It seems important to just stay focused on journaling and the emotional process and at the same time to relax.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top