The Presence Process - Share Experiences & Ask Questions

[danielle]

Thanks for the replies Brian & yb44. I did TPP round 1 last October. I'm working towards doing round 2. The therapist is not at all a mental trip. Called sensorimotor psychotherapy which is focused on trauma held in the body. So it's really good for getting in touch with the breath and the body and feelings stuck in there. But I totally love the idea of not needing someone on the outside to help me get in touch with all this stuff. I've only seen her a couple times so far and it's only going to be once every couple weeks. I don't feel dependent on her like with a therapist in the past, but it seems to bring me more in contact. I will feel it out. Thanks for not just "telling me what to do" like some folks would do.

BTW I have a lot of total body pain, fibromyalgia-like, plus tension headaches & severe TMJ issues, that is for sure TMS and I've had mini periods of relief with TMS readings and workbooks etc. but nothing more than a few days, and the pain's been almost 2 decades, and that was after a whole childhood of being very sickly. I've come to learn that there's a lot of unprocessed gunk in there that's related to the pain.

In Round 1 of TPP, I had an experience already on week 2, "i recognize my reflections & projections," where this statement resonated so strongly and brought up so much productive stuff, that the TMS pain started getting wayyyyyyyy better during this week. It was incredible. I saw such a difference and was having many deep insights. But then the week was over. I really wanted to stay with this because it was working so well and I felt like I was just on the tip of the iceberg with it and maybe should do more time with it. But I chose to stick to the rules and went on to the next week. The last 8 weeks were not at all as productive in terms of making a difference with the pain. I thought next time I'll listen to my gut and stay with this one longer, but I talked to someone who said it's crucial to stick with the week length for each chapter. So I think I've been resisting doing the TPP again partly because of the rules and the apparent contradiction: I'm supposed to not rely on outside authority yet there is this authority of the book and the program which is telling me to ignore a gut feeling and follow someone else's rules. I know there are probably plenty of very excellent reasons for this, but for the TMS personality I'm sure you understand this is enraging.

Thank you for your thoughts (past & future)!!!

 

[BrianC]

Yb44,

Thanks for sharing!

Oddly enough, science has proved in thousands of experiments that negative intentions toward others causes negative thinge to happen to them. So our negative thoughts actually do harm people besides just us. I don't say that to shame you, of course. Just stating a strange fact.

Sounds like you're making great progress! Always good to hear your experiences.

 

[BrianC]

Dannielle,

That's great that you've already completed one PP. It's always good to hear people's unique experiences.

As for staying on week 3, MB advises against it. The process is Presence's process, not ours. And for some reason, it works in 10-week cycles. Some might say 13-week cycles due to the 3-week integration period afterward. You might try staying on week 3 and find that your pain comes back anyway, because the process is moving as it normally does, but you're not. Who knows?

My thoughts are that you enjoyed being out of pain, and you wanted to sit in that state. Unfortunately, that won't get you integrated. And eventually, the pain would come back. That week was probably shown to you so you know that when you're truly being present, watching your reflections and projections, your pain goes away. It sounds like you might try putting your focus on your reflections and projections during weeks 4-10, while still doing everything else. It seems you've placed the power of painlessness on the phrase, but a phrase has no power. It's our hearts that hold the power to cause us pain. As we learn new tools each week, the goal is to continue in those goals throughout the rest of the 10 weeks and beyond. So my advice isn't anything above and beyond normal PP protocol. Just keep in mind that if your pain goes away and comes back, it's likely not the phrase causing that, but rather your heart as a result of the process.

Our heart is immature, so it likes to cry out for help by harming us, because it's hurting. It wants us to feel what it feels so we'll help it. It seems like self-sabotage, but it's just a cry for help. So we must embrace our pain, feeling it fully, not wanting it to go away for he sake of not feeling it anymore. If we want the pain to go away, we're not accepting it unconditionally. We're telling get it that we'll feel it on the condition that it goes away eventually. But that dysrunctional energy-in-motion can't go away. It can only be loved unconditionally until it shifts over into functional energy-in-motion (emotion). When I feel pain now, even itches, I do my best to embrace it and be thankful for it. It usually takes a while for me to be full thankful for it to the point where I feel the resonance of thankfulness, but it happens eventually, and then integration comes shortly afterward. Being able to embrace pain rather than suffer, loathe, and run from it is our hope, because it makes us the most bold people one earth. People who aren't only not deterred by pain, but who enjoy it. There is no one we can't help once we're in that state, because we don't mind going into discomfort and pain to help them--in fact, we look forward to it. The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence is the best testimony of this I know of. I don't recommend thing his path to get there, because TPP is the path we're taking, but his story is quite amazing and enspiring, showing us what's possible if we seek to be full immersed in Presence.

As always, feel it out for yourself and see what you come up with. I get the idea that you have a strong resistance to authority somewhere deep down. The only way to integrate that is to submit to authority as a response, as long as the authority is loving and kind, of course. Rebelling against authority is a reaction, most likely, and might keep you locked into some dysfunctional emotional patterns and pain. Remember that MB says surrender is what this process is about--surrender to our true selves. To resist TPP's structure is to resist your authentic self. That means you're enslaved to your inauthentic self, and it's that authority you're under. No worries, though--that's how we all are until we integrate thE dysfunctional emotions, so you're in good company. I could be wrong about my insights into this, though, so that's why I say to feel it out for yourself. Good luck! Good stuff so far! Can't wait to hear more of your experiences!

 

[lexylucy]

chicken bone - you sound like you just have different parts to your personality a lot of us have that and it doesn't implicate anything extreme like MPD.

 

[painfreeB]

so I'm excited to start the 1st water session of week 7 tomorrow but hoping I don't have too high expectations for what I want to occur. can anyone share their experience? was there a noticeable release of emotion? did you submerge more than just the first activating time? etc...

up until now I've done well w/ the process but don't feel I've mastered the ability to catch myself & stop the drama as or before it happens. I'm getting better @ seeing it after it happens & knowing what it was about & then releasing the energy so it's been a good learning tool for my awareness, but I feel frustrated that when I'm in it -I still almost feel clueless that it's happening because it's so NORMAL for me- even tho I know something doesn't feel 'right'. when I look back at it -it's kind of embarrassing that it's been my reaction/behavior to the world all these years & I can see how it needs to change. whenever I leave the house I remind myself of my intent to work the cleansing process whenever triggered but by the time I do it's already happened;-/ I know that it will take commitment & practice to change a lifetime of this, but does any body else struggle w/ applying the tools in the heet of the moment?

I set an intention to integrate fear when I began & I can honestly say it is not a dominant emotion anymore. I feel more confident & calm, but I have noticed the anger begin to surface which is good, something that has been more elusive for me to access, so I'm hopeful that the water will help loosen that up & release it... I see how my anger outward is a mask or distraction for what I'm feeling inward about myself...

interesting tidbit, MB talks about the heet being released & feeling cooler after water session releases. I've always run a slightly high body temp @ around 99-101 which I always attributed to the pain & inflammation so it will be interesting to see if that is affected.

thanx
bruce

 

[BrianC]

can anyone share their experience? was there a noticeable release of emotion? did you submerge more than just the first activating time? etc...

Bruce,

Sorry for the delayed reply. The TMS forum didn't send me an email to let me know you'd posted. It malfunctions every once in a while.

I'm not sure I've experienced the heating then cooling as emotions release, but I think I have. That's another form of integration. Not sure if I've felt it during a bath session.

The first time I did TPP, I think I did the water sessions a few times each week. The second time I did TPP, I had a medical reason to do the bath sessions daily each morning. That caused the anger to come out so much it turned to depression, so I was depressed for a few weeks until I weeks after the 10 weeks when the issues integrated and I felt happier. Also, that 2nd PP is when I started breathing during my bath sessions, and I usually spent longer than 15 minutes...sometimessage up to 45 mins or an hour. Now, I submerge a few times a week and breathe during each submersion. Also, don't have any expectations for your bath sessions. Just go with the flow. It's different for everyone.

My first 2-3 PPs brought felt resonances to the surface in my chest when I'd do bath sessions, and sometimes felt resonances in the stomach area. In this 4th PP, all of the resonances are in the gut area, the sacral chakra, which is where shame is lodged. It's also the location of our connection with God. Shame sits right there telling us we're not good enough. But the truth is, there's no such thing as self worth or worth at all. Judgment creates worth, but when we accept all without condition (unconditional love), we realize worth doesn't exist just like shame doesn't exist--they're just things we've created in our minds and emotional bodies as a result of our felt resonances.

You will not catch yourself before reactions for a long time, so don't worry about that. That's completely normal. I still don't catch myself many times, but I'm a lot better at it than I used to be. Each time I don't catch myself, I am experiencing another required happening that I need for my personal evolution, so it's all good. Not a problem. Each incident is a messenger, and that's a good thing.

Underneath fear is always anger. So if you're experiencing anger, then you're doing an excellent job integrating fear. I integrated some fear and anger along the way, but last PP I focused on fear primarily, and then anger came up, so I put my focus on anger this PP. Anger is always the hardest one for everyone. Takes time. Perfectionists like us find it hard to accept our little steps of progress, but that's a self-worth issue. We believe we need to be perfect and we need to be able to do it quickly so we stop feeling the way we're feeling. But eventually you start liking the way you're feeling, especially when you feel uncomfortable, because you're excited to be making progress. Then the perfectionis. Starts to fall away and the shame starts to integrate.

When I started TPP, I was all concerned with learning it intellectually and worried about whether I was doing it correctly. Now my main focus is what I feel, and I now have freedom to work the process as I see fit. I basically follow the process, but I'm very laxed about if I miss a breathing session or if I choose to do something a little differently. It's much different than it used to be. I feel u have authority over my process now, whereas before, I was just following as best I could. I feel as though I'm more at a mastery state than a scared, learning state. When I say mastery, I don't mean I'm a master of TPP. I mean that I feel my understanding and experience is very sufficient for me. I feel I've mastered the process, but not that I'm a master of the process. It's not like I catch all of my reactions and I'm integrating things constantly. I just know the process really well. You'll feel that way after a few of them and know what I mean. It's not this arrogant statement. It's this freedom of knowing that I have all I need to integrate anything that comes along. It's like I'm a master of my life now instead of being thrown around scared by it. Maybe master isn't the right term, but I don't know what other term is sufficient at the moment.

You're making great progress. Take it easy and don't rush. No need to rush when it's impossible to rush. rushing is a reaction.

 

[BrianC]

UPDATE: WEEK 9 (4TH PP)

So I'm finally getting deep into my unconscious definition of love. And I need to make a correction. My unconscious definition of love is not being taken care of. It's the felt resonance that gets triggered when someone rejects me (meaning they will not provide some type of care for me).

When I did the Reconnective Healing for a second time, it occurred to me that I was blocking God from helping me, so I knew I needed to clear the block in my stomach (my unconscious definition of love) before I do another healing. My shame/self-worth basically.

So now I'm feeling the resonances one at a time in my sacral area. I'm very happy to be clearing this stuff. This is extremely important for my own development.

 

[tarala]

Hi all-- sorry to have abandoned the forum for so long. When I did my first TPP it went so smoothly, and I actually enjoyed the whole thing. Then when I started the second at the beginning of the year, I had nothing but resistance, to every part of it. I slogged along for a while then gave up. I've come to realize I've just been fed up with the whole "working on my stuff" thing (been at it a good thirty years!). So instead I've been following a Steve O (who I admire greatly) approach. I've been doing four to five fairly intense yoga classes per week, no matter what sort of pain I might have. So far I have to say it's paying off. Some days I have very little pain (sciatica mainly) and some days a fair bit. But I'm overjoyed at how strong I'm getting, and I'm finding that I'm often focusing now on what feels good in my body rather than what hurts. And finally getting fit! Not feeling like I'm able to be fit and active has been my main TMS suffering, not the actual pain. When it's really bothering me I just visualize Steve crawling to his car after hitting golf balls. I have it easy, really.

 

[BrianC]

Tarala,

Good to hear from you. Glad you found something that works for you. And I know what you mean about being tired of working on yourself after doing it for so long.

I had the same experience with my first PP. It was pleasant, fairly easy, and I felt great afterward. The PPs after that were much more difficult.

TPP is tough when the resistance comes. In fact, it's all about not reacting to the resistance, but instead learning to respond to it. That is NOT easy at all. In fact, it's damn hard at times. I'm almost done with my fourth PP, and there's tons of anger on the surface. Not reacting to it is incredibly difficult. I still see myself use some coping mechanisms at times, but not nearly like I used to. For the most part, I'm letting it be. And I expected this, because my goal with this PP was to integrate as much of my anger as I possibly could.

I'm sure you're probably aware of this, but fear is the root cause of all anger, and anger is typically the resistance. When we don't get the results we want, or we have to do things that take us too far out of our comfort zone, we encounter resistance. And when we can't handle the tension it brings up inside of us, we bail and do something else. In TPP we're told that everything that happens to us is required (especially resistance, and that comes up quite a bit in TPP). But whatever you're experiencing right now is what you require. I hope it works out well for you! Good luck!

 

[yb44]

When I did my first TPP it went so smoothly, and I actually enjoyed the whole thing. Then when I started the second at the beginning of the year, I had nothing but resistance, to every part of it. I slogged along for a while then gave up. I've come to realize I've just been fed up with the whole "working on my stuff" thing (been at it a good thirty years!).

I was so pleased to read this, tarala!! I am having the exact same experience except I started to flag towards the end of my first PP. This time things started off okay but the TPP quickly started to lose it's attraction. I kept putting it all down to 'drama' of my own creation. Surely I could set aside 30 minutes a day for quiet time. Apparently I keep throwing distractions and excuses in my own path. As Brian says, resistance is part of the process. I got truly stalled last week (week 6) which deals with our inner child. I have major resistance to this area. I remember seeing a counsellor back in the late 1980's and when she talked about my inner child I thought she was off her rocker. I refused to entertain the notion. So I too have been working on myself - or trying to - for decades like you.

Physically I still have my issues. Recently 'knee TMS' replaced the back/sciatica pain but after a few months it disappeared. Since last summer I have been working with a personal trainer to strengthen and tone up but more importantly to train my brain so that it accepts there is nothing wrong with my body. The only way out is through, MB consistently chants, so I continue. I still have a difficult time getting up and down onto the floor mat but this is all just a big conditioned response - and, of course, resistance. Resistance is everywhere I turn but I deal with it compassionately and unconditionally, i.e. I don't beat myself up if I haven't achieved a specific goal by a specific date. I will get there when I get there.

 

[BrianC]

Yeah, even now that I'm nearly done with my 4th PP, I still react to resistance (sometimes several times a day) instead of responding to it. That's mostly because I haven't yet integrated out the majority of my anger. I've gotten some of it resolved, but after this 4th PP, I'll have another big chunk resolved. And I get the impression that I'll have to do my next PP with the intent to resolve more anger, as well. But I'll take a break for a month or so this time, I think. I want to exist while not in process for a little while before I jump back into it. It'll be nice to have some fun without such a huge repressed anger charge lurking under the surface.

I found that I have this weird emotional barrier up at all times that blocks me from really experiencing what things feel like full-on and what Presence really feels like. I've noticed it before and dropped it a little in the past, but I'm starting to drop that barrier while I do my breathing now, and as much as I can during the day. It's just this weird conscious shift. When I do it, my body relaxes and I feel a lot more stuff going on in it emotionally and physically. It's pretty cool. I literally have to consciously sit in this state of being throughout the day or that barrier comes back up. It's interesting and fun to play with. I especially try to drop it when I see myself about to react to something that just triggered me.

Thanks for the update, yb44! Great to hear, just as it was great to hear from Tarala, too!

 

[danielle]

I just have a quick question Brian, when you say you will take a month off so you can exist while not in process for a while – what about the re-reading of the first part of the book? Do you skip that after doing it enough times? It's taking me a long time to get through the beginning part and it seems like this takes away from actually having a "break" between rounds. Or do you just speed-read before you start again? Thanks!

 

[danielle]

Hi Brian, I wanted to respond to a couple things in your response last month to me, which I hadn't forgotten about, and thanks for all your comments.

My thoughts are that you enjoyed being out of pain, and you wanted to sit in that state. Unfortunately, that won't get you integrated. And eventually, the pain would come back. That week was probably shown to you so you know that when you're truly being present, watching your reflections and projections, your pain goes away. It sounds like you might try putting your focus on your reflections and projections during weeks 4-10, while still doing everything else. It seems you've placed the power of painlessness on the phrase, but a phrase has no power. It's our hearts that hold the power to cause us pain. As we learn new tools each week, the goal is to continue in those goals throughout the rest of the 10 weeks and beyond. So my advice isn't anything above and beyond normal PP protocol. Just keep in mind that if your pain goes away and comes back, it's likely not the phrase causing that, but rather your heart as a result of the process.

It wasn't the phrase causing or not causing pain, but the work and insight it was inspiring. Still, I see your point that I could continue to work on reflections & projections after that week. I think having that as the focus statement really helped keep me focused on it (go figure) though, so I guess I resented having to focus on more than that when it was providing so much mileage.

As always, feel it out for yourself and see what you come up with. I get the idea that you have a strong resistance to authority somewhere deep down.

You're dang right, but it's not very deep down. I've had some horrendous experiences with unhealthy forms of authority, consciously in the last decade (though not for several years) and mostly unconsciously before that. So I am very cautious if someone demands obedience to a certain form or structure.

The only way to integrate that is to submit to authority as a response, as long as the authority is loving and kind, of course. Rebelling against authority is a reaction, most likely, and might keep you locked into some dysfunctional emotional patterns and pain. Remember that MB says surrender is what this process is about--surrender to our true selves. To resist TPP's structure is to resist your authentic self. That means you're enslaved to your inauthentic self, and it's that authority you're under.

I can see your idea about submitting to a kind authority, but see I can just never trust that anyone else knows what's better for me than me. It seems a catch-22 really, how to become authentic. Still, I'm getting close to giving TPP another go with round 2. I also appreciate the recent comments about just letting go of working on oneself and doing programs and all that but then going free-form hasn't really worked out for me yet either!

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

Hi, Painfree. Keep reminding yourself what you posted, that the symptoms are from within us, emotionally, not structurally.
That's the corner stone of Dr. Sarno's theory about pain, in his 12 Daily Reminders.

 

[BrianC]

I just have a quick question Brian, when you say you will take a month off so you can exist while not in process for a while – what about the re-reading of the first part of the book? Do you skip that after doing it enough times? It's taking me a long time to get through the beginning part and it seems like this takes away from actually having a "break" between rounds. Or do you just speed-read before you start again? Thanks!

Hi, Danielle! Good to hear from you.

After my first 10 weeks, during the three-week integration period, I read most of the first part of the book, then started my PP. During the PP, I'd read a few pages of the weekly reading, then I'd read a few pages of the rest of the beginning of the book, and then started reading the end of the book after I finished with the beginning. So I made it through the entire book, or got pretty close to it, by the end of the 10 weeks. After my second PP, I didn't read anything until the beginning of the third PP. I read a little of the daily reading, then a little of the beginning, then end, of the book. And during my fourth PP, I didn't read the beginning of the book at all, but I will read from Week 10 to the end of the book once I finish this one. And instead of just taking the usual three-week integration period, I'll probably take at least another month on top of that. And I won't be reading any of the book once I finish it this time. I want to be completely out of process, except for the daily breathing process, of course, which a person should do for at least six months after they complete a PP. I actually don't plan on ever stopping the daily breathing practice. That's how I consistently tend to my heart (or "inner child"), so I want to make sure that's always present in my life to some degree. If ever I feel that everything is integrated, then I might stop the daily breathing, but I'm not sure. That time is important to me. It's how I get closer to Presence, and I think I still have a ways to go before everything's integrated anyway. But I really have no way to know for certain. I'll have to play it by ear. I kind of shape the process to my own liking so it works well for me. I figure that's a good practice for everyone once they've done one or two exactly as the book directs. I don't change much...just little things.

 

[BrianC]

Hi Brian, I wanted to respond to a couple things in your response last month to me, which I hadn't forgotten about, and thanks for all your comments.

I can see your idea about submitting to a kind authority, but see I can just never trust that anyone else knows what's better for me than me. It seems a catch-22 really, how to become authentic. Still, I'm getting close to giving TPP another go with round 2. I also appreciate the recent comments about just letting go of working on oneself and doing programs and all that but then going free-form hasn't really worked out for me yet either!

Submitting to authority is tricky. Because what we're really striving for is to submit to our true selves--Presence. But any resistance to kind authority means there's a dysfunctional emotion at play. TPP is a kind "authority" if you will. It's not really that it's an authority, but more of a friend or "father figure", in a way, that's helping guide us into ourselves to discover our true self. Typically, resistance to that is a dysfunctional emotion. But after doing a few PPs, you start to feel like you have some liberties to move around and start modifying the process a little here and there, and it doesn't seem like an "authority" anymore. Instead, it seems more like someone's trained you in a way to go into yourself, and you can now take that training and expand upon it to shape it for you and your needs. I tried to stick pretty close to protocol on my first two PPs. After that, I took a few liberties here and there and shaped things a little more the way I felt I needed for further development. But that's just me. Everyone is a little different. Some people will stay rigidly with the process every time and it'll work great for them. Others may not and it'll still work well for them. We just have to feel it out for ourselves.

 

[danielle]

Thanks Brian! (to your post about the readings)

 

[painfreeB]

thanx all. the recent shares have been helpful. I've been awol on here for a while- trying to just 'be' w/ the process & not think to much about it or try & figure it all out. in spite of that I've had some major revelations about the source of my 'imbalance' the water sessions have been eventful & overly calming. I really feel like I've released a lot of fear & anger. over all I'm quite a bit calmer & things that upset me either don't anymore or I'm able to let them go & move on quickly. it feels good not to be angry all the time & I feel a shift in how I look at myself & the world....

I'm hopeful I can 'relearn' these lessons ie 'giving is receiving' etc. as I just turned 57 & am starting a new 7 year cycle in my life so it's quite opportune to be in this emotional space now. it feels like things are starting to take hold...

having said that i feel anxiety & fear about it all being overwhelming & something that will resist change -- especially when I read your experiences about subsequent TPP's & the kind of issues that have arisen for you. I too am sick to death of dealing w/ my 'stuff' and dream of a day I can just enjoy life & just 'be' w/out having to deal w/ or think about it. as for now it IS a part of me & my daily life so I will continue moving fwd in hopes that it becomes me & I become effortlessly present in my life... thanx again for your commitment to be present in your lives. it is an inspiration & support to me as well...
ciao
bruce

 

[Tennis Tom]

Hi PainfreeB,

Glad to hear you're doing better and happy BD. Looks like your icon is an x-ray of your back, for our purposes here a brain scan may be more relevant.

 

[BrianC]

thanx all. the recent shares have been helpful. I've been awol on here for a while- trying to just 'be' w/ the process & not think to much about it or try & figure it all out. in spite of that I've had some major revelations about the source of my 'imbalance' ...

That's great to hear, Bruce! Sounds like you're having a similar experience like everyone else. That's good. It lets you know it's possible to integrate this stuff and feel more loving and calm in life rather than controlled by the triggers.

I wouldn't worry about future PPs. They may bring up more stuff and bE difficult at times, but they continue your training in non-reaction. I don't react nearly as much as I used to. But this type of thing can take quit a while to really get seated inside, so to expect super-quick results is setting people up for a letdown. Yes, some results are very quick, but relearning they way we live life takes time, as does integrating all of these things. I wouldn't give up the last year of 4 PPs for anything. They've all been helpful and none were more than I could handle. You'll be fine. I just tend to take on a lot sometimes, so that's why I've done them back to back while doing other little things here and there, too. I did a bath session. Every day at for the last 4-5 weeks of my second PP l, which brought out so much stuff it put me into a depression. I was fine with it, but it did bring on a depression that I needed to surface and be with for a few weeks. Then it integrated 3 weeks after the 10 weeks and I was fine.

Each person's experience is different. You may find that you have easier experience in subsequent PPs. Who knows? All I know is that whatever happens is required and you'll see benefit from it if you follow the process to the end each time without major constant reaction. Reactions here and there are normal, but big reactions constantly mean you're still stuck in one of the emotional blockages. doesn't mean other emotional blockages aren't working their way out. It just means that one in particular is remaining for the time being until you learn not to react to it. It's pretty simple, really. I suspect you'll have no problem getting through it, even if it's difficult at times.

Thanks so much for the share!