The Presence Process - Share Experiences & Ask Questions

[BrianC]

PainfreeB,

Good to have you in the thread and I'm looking forward to hearing your experiences with TPP.

1. I've just started my 4th PP and I can't remember anywhere in TPP where it says that it's optimal to breathe with food in your stomach. Can you tell me which paragraph and page that's on? Also, which version of the book do you have--first or second/revised edition? It sounds to me like you have the first edition, which isn't nearly as good as the second edition.

I've once heard Michael Brown say that certain sects of monks are only allowed to drink distilled water while they fast, because food and the minerals in water cause issues when they're meditating. It interferes with their ability to feel everything, 100%, in their gut. Personally, I stopped eating right when I get up because of this. I decided to do my breathing first, and then eat later. It's optimal to eat within the first 30-45 minutes. If we eat later than that, our bodies think we're starving so they start storing fat just in case. It's best to get at least 30 grams of protein in that meal to properly start the metabolism so we don't put on excess weight. I'm not sure if that matters to you, but there ya go.

2. When you breathe in the morning and evening for the 15 minute sessions, you say "I am here now in this," just as the book describes, each word on an in-breath or out-breath. During the day, you say the conscious response (activating statement) whenever you think to do so and are not mentally engaged. Also, we're supposed to let that be a reminder to breathe, as well. So, anytime I think to breathe during the day, it's a reminder to say the conscious response, so I do them both at the same time. And anytime I think to say the conscious response, it reminds me to breathe, so I do them both together. Sometimes, I breathe only, because I'm mentally engaged. I don't have to be still to do this, but it helps.

3. Basically, when you finish reading the text for the week, you can start reading it again as a review. That's what it's suggesting, I think. So that's how I did it during my first PP. I just read a few pages a day after I'm done with my 15 minutes of breathing in the morning, and after I've sat for a few minutes afterward.

Good luck! Can't wait to hear what you experience!

- Brian

 

[painfreeB]

thanx that helps some...

I have 1st edition. the food part is in chapter on 'preparing for process' # 8 in guidelines pp86... talks about not on an empty or full stomach. don't know about you but mine is pretty empty upon waking but - like you would prefer to breathe before food so I'll just go w/ water/juice. digestion would surely detract from my experience...

a few follow up ??s. I haven't officially begun session 1 yet but have started the breathing & already notice cool results.

1) would it be beneficial to do the introductory approach & read full book 1st before going back to the experiential 10 week session or just dive right in? my tendency is to feel like I understand it all so maybe I should jump in

2) also the bit about no drama/changes to life. I was considering a month long backpack trip to peru - definitely drama. is it something I could practice while traveling or maybe wait on it or PP until settled?

3) I saw your 3rd PP was interrupted some because of a vacation. if you miss breathing days do you make them up & prolong the session or move on to next session after 7 days no matter?

also just curious; how many journeys you intend to do?

thx again
ba

 

[tarala]

Hi TPPers, I've only done one but it was amazing. PainfreeB, I had to do the last two weeks on vacation and I found it a little disruptive, but still better than not doing it at all. Brian, #4!!! That is incredible. Lucky for us we have you as our own TPP guru. I'm starting my second today as I've recently had some angry issues surfacing, with a recurrence of TMS.

 

[BrianC]

Hi TPPers, I've only done one but it was amazing. PainfreeB, I had to do the last two weeks on vacation and I found it a little disruptive, but still better than not doing it at all. Brian, #4!!! That is incredible. Lucky for us we have you as our own TPP guru. I'm starting my second today as I've recently had some angry issues surfacing, with a recurrence of TMS.

Tarala,

Good to hear from you! I was wondering what happened to you.

That's awesome that you're starting your second PP today. The three of us are going to be on almost the same schedule, having all started about the same time. I started Saturday.

Yeah, anger is what I'm dealing with now, because I intended to integrate insecurity during my last PP. And anger's under fear (insecurity). Anger is always the wall that gets in my way. My family does not deal with it well, nor have I since I was a baby. So, this one may well be a challenging PP for me. I see some of my old habits returning to try to cope with the anger already, which is okay. I've noticed that it helps bring out the emotions eventually when I allow some of the coping behaviors to come back for a short time. I know they typically suppress the anger, but it seems shame is what comes up, shutting down the behavior, then I can work through to the anger and then to grief. Weird how it works, but that seems to be the order of it for some reason.

Can't wait to hear about your experiences the second time around!

 

[BrianC]

thanx that helps some...

I have 1st edition. the food part is in chapter on 'preparing for process' # 8 in guidelines pp86... talks about not on an empty or full stomach. don't know about you but mine is pretty empty upon waking but - like you would prefer to breathe before food so I'll just go w/ water/juice. digestion would surely detract from my experience...

There are a couple of people who wrote the intro to the second edition/revision of The Presence Process who said it's so much better than the first edition, so if you can get it, I highly recommend it.

As for food, we just feel out the situation and see what works best for us. I'd encourage trying it one way for a day or so, and then trying a different way the next few days, and see what you like. I've noticed that when I don't eat anything for a while, my mind is more clear. Food seems to cause issues for some reason. At one time I knew why, but it escapes me at the moment. But maybe everyone's not like me in that respect.

a few follow up ??s. I haven't officially begun session 1 yet but have started the breathing & already notice cool results.

1) would it be beneficial to do the introductory approach & read full book 1st before going back to the experiential 10 week session or just dive right in? my tendency is to feel like I understand it all so maybe I should jump in

I'd say to do whatever you feel is right for you. I read the book before I started, but only because I thought it was required before starting the process. lol I didn't realize a person could start when they reached Part 2. If I had realized that, I would've started as soon as I hit Part 2. Tarala started when she hit Part 2 and had great results.

2) also the bit about no drama/changes to life. I was considering a month long backpack trip to peru - definitely drama. is it something I could practice while traveling or maybe wait on it or PP until settled?

You could do this while travelling, I suppose. I'm not sure if it would be more effective or less effective that way. You'd have to decide for yourself. One thing TPP suggests is going to the same room in your home each day and breathing there specifically. The reason for choosing the same spot each day is because you will start to associate that place with the practice, which will get your body more quickly into the present moment. Also, as you build energy in a place, such as a specific room, the energy stays and builds more as you build more energy there in that place. Scientists have actually measured this in several research studies and found it to be true, oddly enough. There's a book called The Field by Lynne McTaggart that discusses tons of research studies and experiments by reputable scientists who've gone into the field of fringe science with quantum physics and discovered profound things that completely change the foundation of science and life as we know it. Great book. I just finished the audiobook version today.

3) I saw your 3rd PP was interrupted some because of a vacation. if you miss breathing days do you make them up & prolong the session or move on to next session after 7 days no matter?

No, TPP says that we're bound to miss breathing sessions periodically, and not to worry about it and not to try to make it up. If we miss one in the morning and we want to make it up later in the day, that's fine. But once the day is over, no need to try to make it up the next day. Just start again the next day, as usual. And yes, you move on to the next 7 days no matter what. The 10 weeks is never prolonged into any more than 10 weeks. I look at it in 13-week segments, because there's a 3-week integration period after the 10 weeks is complete. The only time I've deviated any was when I started my 3rd PP after being finished with my 2nd PP for only 1 week. And interestingly enough, it still took three total weeks for everything to integrate. That's why I waited 5 weeks to start this 4th PP. I wanted to get back on the normal 13-week cycle. Worked out well.

also just curious; how many journeys you intend to do?

As many as it takes. I'll just feel my way through it. Apparently, most people only need about three PPs according to Michael Brown (MB). But each person is different. For me, I can tell I have this huge wall of anger that's unintegrated, so I need to do this 4th PP to make sure I integrate a big chunk of that and continue integrating it afterward. Anger is like my Achilles heel. I'm surprised it took me this long to get to it, but whatever happens is valid and happens exactly as it's supposed to.

 

[yb44]

Well I too was planning a second TPP round about now. I finished the last one in November. I knew I was going abroad and would find it difficult to keep on track so I decided to wait until I was back. During the break I have been way to quick to shoot the messengers but I have been feeling sad, even cried once or twice but not for long. I kept expecting the floodgates to open towards the end of the 10 weeks but nothing really happened then nor during the 3 weeks following. Maybe it's me having unrealistic expectations. Everything that is meant to happen will happen when it happens? My intention the first time was to get better at feeling, to recognise and accept any emotion, bad, good or neutral, without judgement. I'm not too sure whether to repeat that intention or go with something else. Anger is a biggy for me too. I have arguments with people in my head where I tell them what I really think about them. This will stem from my childhood, a time when I really had a bone to pick with my parents and occasionally did but mostly I internalized my anger. Family were constantly telling me I had a real chip on my shoulder. Hey look, it's still there.

 

[BrianC]

Yeah, each person's experience is different and we have to feel it out on our own. I was exceptionally better at feeling when I finished my first PP. But that got suppressed as I went into my second PP. And then it came back. And then it got suppressed again toward the end of my 3rd PP, because anger was coming up. It flows different ways for all of us. I've seen that anger is my real big issue, so I'm putting my focus on that next. It was good that I did insecurity (fear) first, because the natural progression is fear, then anger, then grief. Supposedly, we'll go through that cycle with each issue that needs to integrate. Since I get stuck at anger a lot, I figure I'll shoot for integrating a big chunk of it this time. I do that thing in my head, too, where I tell people what I really think about them. I then say, "Well, that's just my child-self being upset about something and projecting it onto them," then I let it go. I don't really know how to handle those, so I just do that. lol I figure it's best not to react. There's probably a better way than what I do.

I'm about to learn Kriya Yoga. It's also a breathing practice, but teaches about controlling energy in the body more intensely and specifically. I'm curious how that will go. A friend of mine does it and says it's pretty intense. I just happened to find a guy who's going to teach it to me. It, also, has a foundational focus on being in the moment. It should complement this work well. Also, I plan to go to someone to allow them to unblock some blocks in my body regarding shame and sex. Tantra seems to be the way to go for that. We'll see how that goes if I can find someone to help me with that. I've heard great testimonies about it. Should be interesting. After reading The Field and seeing all of its scientific proof of how important energy and intention are, I'm very interested in energy work now. TPP is energy work, and I think it's probably all that's really needed if someone does it correctly. Maybe I'm a little dense, so I'm trying a little extra to help me along the way. lol

 

[painfreeB]

thanx all. ya -anger at the top of my list too. was gonna work on fear but maybe I should start w/ it since there will be so much intention to integrate out there to piggyback from . good to know this is here to check in & compare notes as I move onward thro the fog...
cheers
ba

 

[painfreeB]

I'm about to learn Kriya Yoga. It's also a breathing practice, but teaches about controlling energy in the body more intensely and specifically. I'm curious how that will go. A friend of mine does it and says it's pretty intense. I just happened to find a guy who's going to teach it to me. It, also, has a foundational focus on being in the moment. It should complement this work well. Also, I plan to go to someone to allow them to unblock some blocks in my body regarding shame and sex. Tantra seems to be the way to go for that. We'll see how that goes if I can find someone to help me with that. I've heard great testimonies about it. Should be interesting. After reading The Field and seeing all of its scientific proof of how important energy and intention are, I'm very interested in energy work now. TPP is energy work, and I think it's probably all that's really needed if someone does it correctly. Maybe I'm a little dense, so I'm trying a little extra to help me along the way. lol[/QUOTE]

good luck w/ the yoga. I practice/teach qi gong & highly recommend it for TMS. it is the quintessential mind/body energy practice as one moves physical, emotional & spiritual chi/qi (energy) w/ your attention & intention (mind, breath & hands). it embodies the connection that all are one...
here's an easy seated version I practice for healing called sheng zhen;

it's quite relaxing to the mind & body as well. part 2 should be on the right video bar.
I teach a different standing form & there are plenty online to view if interested.
namaste

 

[BrianC]

Thanks for the links. I'll check those out tomorrow. Yeah, I think Kriya Yoga will compliment TPP nicely.

MB says the natural progession of emotions is fear, then anger, then grief. So starting with fear may be more effective. MB says that the first PP is to resolve the overall charge. I imagine that's fear--the fear of feeling dysfunctional emotions. After you do that, you're more likely to experience the anger more intensely, making it easier to work with. But who knows? You can feel it out and see what works best for you.

Good luck!

 

[painfreeB]

just starting my 1st session on my 1st PP ride have a few technical breathing questions if anyone can relate...

1- no problems keeping my breathe normal & connected but at times I discover it is real shallow. a few times I've almost fell asleep & MB explains this as resistance to consciousness. anyone else struggle w/ sleep & if so, how long did it take to build up enuff experience to overcome that?

2- when breathing normal & connected, I find that I have a great desire/need to breathe a very deep full breathe maybe 4- 6 times over the 15 session. of course the inhale/exhale is equal & still connected but it feels like I'm not getting enough & need more oxygen in my lungs. is this normal & OK? or should all my breathing be the same? anyone else notice this?

thx
ba

 

[BrianC]

I've only fallen asleep a few times. I'm not even sure I was asleep. When it was happening repeatedly for a few days, I breathed faster and it helped. I was only falling asleep because I wasn't sleeping quite enough. Easy solution was more sleep.

I do that deep breath thing sometimes for some reason. It doesn't happen if I breathe medium to deep, though, so I'm guessing the shallow breaths are your problem.

I've been trying to breathe really deep for the past few days. It helps, but isn't necessary. I think optimally, that's what we're shooting for, though--quick, full inhale, and quick exhale. And breathing everytime you think to do so during the day is extremely helpful. The goal is to be consciously breathing all day long, but it'll probably take several years and lots of emotional processing to accomplish that.

 

[tarala]

Hi Brian, I disappeared off to India for four months. Interestingly, my TMS always goes away almost entirely when I travel. Very telling!

I didn't actually find that all that much happened during the three weeks after my first TPP. But recently some family issues have triggered anger and now it's so much easier to 1) feel the anger in my body 2) recognize how much it comes from childhood suppressed anger 3) feel grief at the same time. I have given up trying to sort out the order of fear, anger and grief; they seem all mixed up for me. I just try to actually experience whatever is there rather than thinking I'm feeling it!

 

[tarala]

Hi painfree (like the name), I used to have asthma and discovered I'm an "overbreather." I am very careful to breathe in a way that works for me. I think that's fine in the context of TPP; I think most important is breathing consciously, and staying present, not how long, deep, etc each particular inhale or exhale is. MB might disagree, but as Jack Sparrow says, I prefer to think of guidelines rather than rules.

 

[BrianC]

Tarala,

Well, glad to have you back!

What do you do when you go to India?

For me, I keep seeing this trend where I'll be better at feeling after I do a 10-week process, then when I start the next one, my feelings get suppressed to some degree. It's because my heart knows anger's going to come up and it's still scared to feel it or scared of what could happen. I don't know why, though. I've never done anything crazy while angry, really. But I know there's a ton of shame around anger for me. I think each process I do, I suppress less and less when I start the next one, so my heart is slowly trusting that feeling everything is okay, little by little. But that's just my experience. Each person's experience is different, of course.

That's awesome that you feel quite a bit more now. It's the coolest thing. Gives life quite a bit more exhilaration!

 

[BrianC]

LUCID DREAMING & SHAME RELEASE

I had a very cool morning. I work early, as usual, around 4am. I typically lay in bed trying to doze till 6am. For the past several nights, I've been trying to lucid dream. That basically means you're in a dream and you suddenly become aware that you're dreaming, so you can start doing cool things since it's a dream. Things you couldn't do in real life--like fly or whatever. In the past year, I've noticed that I become lucid in my dreams pretty regularly and I'll try to do things in the dream that are fun.

Well, I found a forum where everyone likes to lucid dream and I was reading just a little about. These people are really into it and they have techniques for doing it. So I memorized an easy technique and tried it out. Totally didn't work for me. In fact, once I started trying to lucid dream, I stopped having lucid dreams or I stopped realizing I was dreaming. LOL Go figure! So I decided to stop trying to lucid dream yesterday since trying to do it wasn't working.

This morning, I woke at 4am and decided to lay there and breathe. I specifically decided to put my focus on the shame I knew was in my stomach area, because I recently became more aware that the chakra there is blocked as a result. I breathed for a little bit and the shame surfaced there and I was able to be with it unconditionally for a little bit. I could tell I was actually making some progress there. Then, I slipped into a dream. Quick sidebar--the lucid dreams like to ask this question, "Which would you choose to do in a lucid dream: have sex or fly?" I thought that was an interesting question, but I didn't understand why they were asking it. I'd seen people posting up that you could basically have really good sex with anyone you wanted in a lucid dream, so I just assumed everyone would answer that. I've never tried, so I had no point of reference really, and I didn't care about the question. Well, in this dream, I noticed something odd about a dog walking up to me that changed into a bear. Immediately, I got excited, because I realized that I was becoming lucid and this was a dream. In fact, I could feel this energy building inside for 1-2 seconds as I got excited at becoming lucid. Immediately, without thinking about it, I flew (which I've nearly been unable to do in dreams. At best, I could float up a little bit, and it took a lot of effort, and I'd usually drop back down and wake up--it wasn't anything special). But here's what's so cool--I felt this amazing power inside of me that built at my excitement that sort of launched me into flying. So, while flying, I felt really awesome inside. It was like part of me, internally, had been freed. The flying didn't last long at all before I woke up, but it was really cool.

After I woke up, I could feel energy coursing through my entire body. It was really cool. I think some of the shame integrated, from what I could tell.

I didn't realize just why exactly I'd been lucid dreaming, but I think this morning I finally understood. It was part of my emotional development for some reason. Cool stuff!

 

[yb44]

I have given up trying to sort out the order of fear, anger and grief; they seem all mixed up for me. I just try to actually experience whatever is there rather than thinking I'm feeling it!

I agree with you. If I get so caught up in thinking then I'm inside my head and no where else.

Welcome back from India. I'm glad you manage to lose your symptoms while away. I've just returned from a trip and my symptoms came with me.

 

[BrianC]

yb44,

I forgot to say, "Good to see you again!"

 

[BrianC]

I keep moving more toward not thinking about it, too. I think I'm just frustrated that anger's taking so long to integrate. I thought I could make more progress than this by now, but everything happens exactly as it needs to, so I'm okay with that.

I'm feeling more felt resonances more easily after yesterday's venture with dropping a big chunk of shame and lucid dreaming. I tried again this morning and it didn't work, because I was trying again instead of just letting it happen if it happened. But what I noticed is that my body was resonating all over or in specific spots where I have health problems, like my tendon at my elbow. It used to strain easily (both did). I think integrating some shame unlocked so ability to let anger start resonating, but it's nnot feeling like anger. I'm wondering if it was anger and grief that integrated, because that's kind of what shame is made of. Either way, I'm not really concerned with it. I'm just happy things are resolving and changing.

The reason I make an effort to accurately follow the emotional shifts in my body is because I want to be able to share my experience accurately with others to encourage them. However, I may need to forget it and just trust that when I speak to people, I'll be able to express it perfectly for them through the help of Presence.

 

[BrianC]

About dreams...there's a tribe in South America who get all of their instructions for what to do during the day from their dreams at night. They believe the waking world is the dream and the dream world is reality. When people die and have an after-death experience then get resuscitated, they always say the afterlife felt so much more real that this life, so much so that this world now seems fake--like it's an illusion. That's an interesting thought, and kind of creepy in a way.

I keep finding that it's vitally important to remember to breathe during the day as much as possible to stay present.

Oh, I forgot to mention that what integrated or broke that chunk of shame I had stuck in my gut was being genuinely thankful for it when I felt it resonate. I was exceptionally thankful for it and loving it by speaking to it as if it were a young child. I was also purposely feeling love toward it, so in my body, love and thankfulness were resonating all over, physically. That's what integrated it. I'm doing my best to remember that for next time I feel some emotion or physical pain that's uncomfortable.