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The need for oxygen depletion

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Sussex TMS, May 22, 2014.

  1. Sussex TMS

    Sussex TMS Peer Supporter

    A question keeps occurring to me and I wonder if anyone can help: if the brain wants to distract us with pain, why does it need to do something physical? Surely all pain is experienced by the brain and therefore the subconscious could just say "you're in pain" and you would be without the need for any physical symptoms. This was my hypothesis before I read about Dr Sarno; though I supposed it wouldn't explain the stiffness in my back, which can only be a physical symptom.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  2. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

  3. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Have you read Dr Sarno's Divided Mind? The deep conflict between the primitive brain (paleo-mammalian mind) and the prefrontal cortex (neo-mammalian mind) could answer the question you pose. So could the Freudian concept of 'unconscious intentionality', which I think is where Dr Sarno's TMS theory has its roots. Look at Germany too where during WWII unconscious drives in the collective unconscious of the 'volk' directly contributed to the destruction of a whole society (along with several other social groups along the irrational path to racial purity). We don't always do things in our best interests in terms of the pleasure principle do we? As Dr Schubiner points out in the video Walt posted above, physical 'triggers' in you environment can activate those contradictions between our conscious and unconscious minds and result in physical symptoms.
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  4. Sussex TMS

    Sussex TMS Peer Supporter

    I haven't read the divided mind yet; just "healing back pain". I only found out about TMS three weeks ago! Perhaps that should be my next port of call. Though I can see that believing it's ppsychological is the main thing.
  5. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    All this stuff is very much in the realm of speculation, you should remember; that is, until the neuro-scientists start dissecting live TMS patients! Want to volunteer? Getting closer to that with brain scans I understand, which are confirming many things that Dr. Sarno only observed and inferred from the behavior of his patients. It's an ongoing field today, that gray area where body and mind interact and merge.
  6. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Remember, there's no "oxygen depletion" in TMS, that's not what happens. There's also no "reductionism."

    The reason that the brain "must do something physical" is the reason why Dr. Sarno is a genius; because there's no difference between the mind and the body. What's in the mind is also in the body. The good doctor used Candace Pert's work as a proof. Those of us that healed are living proof.

    Mind = body = Mindbody

    DanielleMRD, mousemom and BruceMC like this.
  7. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    But, Steve, haven't the tissues in the backs of lower lumbar pain patients behind dissected recently and been found to be low in O2? I don't know where effect becomes cause and cause becomes effect though; that seems to reside in the Mind = Body = Mindbody equation you cite.
  8. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    They're not booing, they're saying "Bruuuuce!"

    Yes, the oxygen is low in pain patients; this is why they have pain. Dr. Sarno cited 2 rheumatology studies that showed a 50% loss of oxygen in the cells of fibromyalginianitarians. But my point is that it's not "depleted." Depleted implies it ran out. The brain cuts the flow off to obtain its desired state of diversion, with smoke and mirrors. If I turn the valve off on a full oxygen tank, the tank isn't depleted of oxygen.

    Remember Dr. Sarno jumping down the throat of Paul Sladkus when he used the word depleted? Also, in the Sarno/Rashbaum article of 2003, they stated that there was no reductionism. So, there isn't an emotional or structural depletion that gets you to a state of TMS. TMS is a purposeful and strategic move by the brain to cope through unavoidable circumstances. The body isn't compromised in any manner.

    I hope that confuses people good, or helps, either way.

  9. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    This helps, Steve.

    But I'm not a person who tries to understand the physiology of oxygen reduction.
    I just accept it and go ahead with the TMS healing process.

    I don't understand why a rose is a rose. Okay, it's rose. I just love its looks and aroma.
  10. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    TMS is not only physical/structural pain, there are also AFFECTIVE (emotional) TMS symptoms/equivalents such as depression, anxiety, OCD, addictions, etc.

    Edit: Let me add insomnia to that since it's a hot topic of late.
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
    nowtimecoach and Ellen like this.
  11. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Interesting in this particular context, Tom, how prednisone, which is used both to treat lower back pain and allergies, is likewise a strong anti-depressant and stimulant. I've heard about miraculous personality transformations while under its influence of really down, bummer people who turned into balls of optimistic energy who were much easier to live with than in their untreated states. One has to wonder whether a steroid like prednisone actually treats the underlying personality disorder behind allergic and TMS symptoms? Chicken or egg again, and again, and again . . .
  12. PaulBlack

    PaulBlack Peer Supporter

    Well, I know hormones effect moods and lots of chemical areas, transmitters etc. in the brain, so that is also another deeper study that is only in it's infancy.
    The thing I wonder sometimes is, depending on how angry or fearful I am, seems to have a direct impact on the intensity of the pain or a TMS symptom.
    I also seem to link (although I may be way off base here) if I have numbness say, in my hand, then I ask myself, is there is something I do not want to have to handle? I have to wonder if the brain works the TMS, in symbolic ways like that!? I often wonder, what I do not want to hear in my life, when my ears ring and ring and ring.
  13. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes PaulBlack, expressions like pain in the ass, neck and many others are no doubt rooted in real bodily pain areas. I've wondered about the origin of the psoas muscle? TMS is the "volume control" for the pain. For more on release of hormones by the unconscious see Candace Pert "MOLECULES OF EMOTION", she was the discoverer of the opiate receptor: candacepert.com
  14. Sussex TMS

    Sussex TMS Peer Supporter

    Thanks Tom, very good point.

    I was actually told to try a weak dose of some anti - depressant about a year ago by a pain clinician (I can't remember what it was called). But I didn't want to go down that route as I didn't want my personality changed.

    Having had OCD/ME when I was growing up I'm obviously keen to avoid replacing my back pain with anything else! Though I think that was brought on by the general stresses and strains of growing up and the hormones etc.

    On a side note, I'd be interested to hear how the "standard" treatment of back pain works over there (assuming most of you are American?) compared to here in England. All of my (seemingly pointless) treatment has been free, of course, but you have to wait a hell of a long time to get any non - urgent issues dealt with on the NHS. I will be writing to my GP, consultant and various others about Dr Sarno ' s work in due course.

    Think how much the NHS could save on drugs and treatments for back pain which could go towards better care of cancer and other serious illness!
  15. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Sussex.

    "Standard treatment" for back and other pain in the U.S. (not for "serious" illnesses such as the heart or cancer)
    means a doctor may prescribe a painkiller and have X-rays and MRIs taken and if the results look serious to him,
    he may suggest surgery.

    I'm 84 and had back pain two years ago and didn't go to my doctor, I learned about Dr. Sarno's theory about TMS, read
    his book Healing Back Pain, and did the journaling he suggests. I learned about childhood traumas that I repressed
    and they gave me the back pain.

    I suggest you read the Success Stories subforum and start the free Alan Gordon TMS Recovery Program.

    It would be great if you spread the word about TMS in England.
    Sussex TMS likes this.
  16. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Mild doses of anti-depressants have been found to be beneficial for TMS. A few years back I experimented with Celexa. I found it beneficial to a degree. It made me feel a bit removed, observing reality from above but not too zombied out. I stopped using it when I felt I had gained all the insight benefits it had to offer.

    Dr. Sarno and other mindbody doctors like Bernie Siegel feel cancer can also have psychosomatic origins. I agree, I've seen people who got cancer that I feel was due to long term unhappiness.
  17. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    I was one of those people that was transformed by prednisone--for two weeks anyway--all my TMS and TMS equivalents went away. This was prior to learning about TMS, and I thought I'd finally found the magic cure. However, at the end of two weeks, I suddenly lost all energy and could barely get out of bed. I stopped the prednisone and very slowly got back to where I was prior to starting the drug. I still clung to the idea that this was the cure for awhile, thinking I just needed to find the right steroid at the right dose. But I eventually gave it up and discovered TMS healing, which is the real thing, but certainly not as easy as swallowing a pill. There are no shortcuts.
    nowtimecoach likes this.
  18. The Fool

    The Fool Peer Supporter

    Ha ha! Still laughing at Fibromyalginianitarians.

    Sussex - I have been banging on to my doc about Dr Sarno and TMS for the last two years to no avail. Georgie Oldfield is spreading the word here in the UK with SIRPA. She has re-named it "Stress Illness".

    For me TMS healing is still just beyond my grasp. Not that I haven't had improvements, but I have been continually distracted by "pill-taking", which, as Ellen quite rightly mentions is the easy option.

    For some, healing comes purely from the information - there's nothing physically wrong with you, so just jump back in and resume all activities you may have put off because of the pain, and get back to enjoying life. I witnessed this first-hand recently with a friend I lent my "Healing Back Pain" to. She was literally housebound with excruciating back pain. MRIs revealed herniated discs and "nerve impingement". She had already had steroid injections, which had given her no relief, and was just about to have another round of more extensive injections, after a visit to A&E with a particularly severe bout, when on hearing about her struggle, I posted the book through her letter box. After just 2 months, she was completely pain-free.

    On a walk with her a couple of days ago, she remembered me telling her that she was the only person outside of my immediate family I had told about TMS healing. She, on the other hand, after reading the book, immediately began telling people that there was nothing wrong with her back, it was all in her head. I made a mental note to follow her lead, and tell everyone in future that I'm fit and healthy. And it goes without saying, that she's a real inspiration for my own healing.

    My own healing has been slow, and I'm holding up my hands to trying to take short-cuts. Some of us need more time, more information, and more work, but I have seen the miracle of TMS healing with my own eyes now, and it's given me even more impetus to carry on to a pain-free future.
    nowtimecoach and Sussex TMS like this.
  19. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi. The Fool. You're not, as far as I'm concerned. You are just like me, it took a while to heal the TMS way.
    Your woman friend whose back pain left her 2 months after reading Healing Back Pain is a wonderful success story
    and an inspiration to everyone.

    Dr. Sarno says it's okay to take some medication for pain, so long as you don't think it will cure you
    and you keep believing totally that it's froim TMS repressed emotions and/or the personality if you are
    like many others a perfectionist. My best friend was a perfectionist's perfectionist and had lifelong back pain.
    Neither of us knew about TMS but he had lots of repressed emotions to have caused it.

    We are so lucky to know about TMS and the techniques for healing our pain. Keep at it and you will be a
    pain-free happy man.
  20. Sussex TMS

    Sussex TMS Peer Supporter

    Thanks for your post Mr Fool.
    I've not continued to take painkillers but then I'd long since given up on them anyway - they never helped!

    Anyway, I managed to cycle 18 miles today which I couldn't have dreamt of a few weeks back. I hope you enjoy similar progress.

    I've had a sore throat for three days now, coinciding with me really believing in TMS. Now just trying to work out whether it's another manifestation or not!
    nowtimecoach likes this.

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