Day 26 Talking about parents/parenting

[homorobothead]

Hey y'all,

Just in case it's too painful to read, this post contains some descriptions of child abuse.

Today the SEP recommended that I talk about the last time I spoke with my parents. This one was tough, I'll admit, especially after reading posts from parents who have been hurt by their children. I know that the folks on here probably didn't perpetrate the actual criminal abuse my parents did (CPS was called once by my coach who saw the bruises on my back - but I was never removed - no idea why) but sometimes I read about people's kids being dismissive, and wonder if I am being an asshole too. But, then I think, if a stranger stripped me and beat me, I'd file charges, why should I accept that from my parents?

A sidenote: Before this falling out, when my husband asked permission to marry me from my father (old-fashioned, but he wanted ot respect my father's belief system), my father told my husband to "not believe anything she says, because she lies."

The last time I spoke with my parents, I told them I did not want to have any more contact with them because they would not apologize for any of the painful things in the past. I told them I just wanted them to admit them and we would never talk about it again. That if they loved me, they would be honest. The wild thing is they did admit to it, but then said I was "defiant and willful" and a good whipping was the only thing that would settle me down. When I asked about some of the more sexually-oriented abuse, they said I needed "humbling." They have been a part of a religious organization, a very, small fundmentalist offshoot of the Baptist church, since I was very small that encourages this kind of discipline and indeed perpetrates it within the church. My mother has also been mentally ill for a long time after the birth of my brother with disabilities. She really wasn't capable of the kind of love I see a lot of women mourning for their kids on here.

I asked if they regretted it and they said no, so I said I never wanted to talk to them again because I can't be around people who believe that it is ok to hurt children.

So, I don't have a relationship with them any more because of all that.

It's definitely contributed to my pain. I wish my parents could love me enough to admit that they were wrong. But they don't think they were and they are surrounded by people who echo the sentiment.

Thank you so much for reading. It's been a tough week and this particular section was painful, but necessary. I do so appreciate you all. I'll do the deep breathing as suggested to let my body know that it's safe now.

 

[Mtnjac]

Hey y'all,

Just in case it's too painful to read, this post contains some descriptions of child abuse.

Today the SEP recommended that I talk about the last time I spoke with my parents. This one was tough, I'll admit, especially after reading posts from parents who have been hurt by their children. I know that the folks on here probably didn't perpetrate the actual criminal abuse my parents did (CPS was called once by my coach who saw the bruises on my back - but I was never removed - no idea why) but sometimes I read about people's kids being dismissive, and wonder if I am being an asshole too. But, then I think, if a stranger stripped me and beat me, I'd file charges, why should I accept that from my parents?

A sidenote: Before this falling out, when my husband asked permission to marry me from my father (old-fashioned, but he wanted ot respect my father's belief system), my father told my husband to "not believe anything she says, because she lies."

The last time I spoke with my parents, I told them I did not want to have any more contact with them because they would not apologize for any of the painful things in the past. I told them I just wanted them to admit them and we would never talk about it again. That if they loved me, they would be honest. The wild thing is they did admit to it, but then said I was "defiant and willful" and a good whipping was the only thing that would settle me down. When I asked about some of the more sexually-oriented abuse, they said I needed "humbling." They have been a part of a religious organization, a very, small fundmentalist offshoot of the Baptist church, since I was very small that encourages this kind of discipline and indeed perpetrates it within the church. My mother has also been mentally ill for a long time after the birth of my brother with disabilities. She really wasn't capable of the kind of love I see a lot of women mourning for their kids on here.

I asked if they regretted it and they said no, so I said I never wanted to talk to them again because I can't be around people who believe that it is ok to hurt children.

So, I don't have a relationship with them any more because of all that.

It's definitely contributed to my pain. I wish my parents could love me enough to admit that they were wrong. But they don't think they were and they are surrounded by people who echo the sentiment.

Thank you so much for reading. It's been a tough week and this particular section was painful, but necessary. I do so appreciate you all. I'll do the deep breathing as suggested to let my body know that it's safe now.[/QUOTE


Hey back Homorobothead!

Well, I’m on a roll today and your post calls out loudly to me.

Before anything else I might say, your awareness of the possible damage a cult-like system of belief can cause is in line with many other systems I’m seeing today. It is actually very healthy for you to recognize that influence on your parents and their severe, reinforced treatment of you. Had you personally bought-in to their beliefs as an adult, you truly might have dismissed this forum and spent the rest of your life in pain never knowing why. As it is, you seem exceptionally bright, at the same time compassionate so you have all the right stuff to find your rightful footing!

Admittedly, you have a lot of work to do. But I am impressed with your insight. For example, you say you read about parents such as I, who want to find ways to have a relationship with their children and then you compare that to giving your own parents a way to reach you, which they then try to justify…by blaming you! That insight can be invaluable going forward. That hurtful insight can power you to the next level.

You can rail through writing, cry upon the ink, excessively freak out over your husband’s work situation, and/or you can continue with renewed determination on a multitude of necessary, incremental steps to heal thyself…not your brother or your misguided parents…you. If your parents never love you as you want them to, who will love you if not you?

Leave them to God, wish them well, and in time you may even begin the exaggerated process of forgiveness as I am doing with my long-dead mother.

Abuse of any kind is unacceptable. But to my way of thinking, we abuse ourselves because that is what we learned to do. To unlearn the abuse, is why we’re here.

Can you try to see yourself as entirely lovable and deserving of life’s joy? You are not your parents. You are you. A lovely light in the world.

 

[Diana-M]

@homorobothead,
You are a brave kind soul. I’m so sad to hear what you have been through. Don’t worry that you are being unkind to your parents. Sometimes—especially when it comes to abuse—drastic measures are needed to survive and heal. You are not being unfair. I’m glad you’re being good to yourself. Hugs!

 

[berlinale]

@homorobothead

My dear friend, I am so sad to read what you have experienced. You are such a strong person with such a beautiful soul - nobody deserves such parents and such childhood. I think you are doing exactly the right things.

I did not experience anything like you did, but I also have a mentally ill mother. Whenever she did or said something evil to me, it helps to remind me that it is not really her but her ill mind that is speaking/acting and it has nothing to do with me.

 

[Baseball65]

I read about people's kids being dismissive, and wonder if I am being an asshole too.

I once asked that question about Narcissism. I read the traits of one and said "Hey...Maybe I am a Narcissist because I have some of these things"...the therapist told me 'a real Narcy would never ask that question"'

Likewise, if your wondering if maybe You're the asshole, You're NOT the asshole.

I used to be Jealous of a kid who lived down the street. His Dad was a badass Marine Vet, looked like a Superhero in a pin striped suit , His Mom was the most glamorous woman in our community and he had a Beautiful sister and the nicest home.

We have been friends now since I moved to America ('71)Maybe 50+ years? .....His Family was beaten Daily by his pops for YEARS. I knew nothing about it and I saw all of them all of the time. It is one of the worst things as far as TMS creation. My Friend has all sorts of issues but HAS worked through them by being honest and open....not 'being the victim' open, but discussing it in the right places, like this forum for example. He also got in his Pops face about it and worked through some of it...his dad wasn't as in denial as it sounds like your family is.

Sarno cited it as the worst of the worst for Mindbody symptoms. I don't know where you are in the Program, but just cutting them off is a good START but you might want to find a way to express that grief and anger even if it feels a little staged at first. Screaming therapy? Breaking things? Going to the firing range? I did it. It was awesome and I always felt better.

Our conscious brain needs to tell the Unconscious it's 'OK' and knowing it, writing about it is a great start , but actually allowing the suppressed rage out into the real universe is SO therapeutic. I have done it many different ways, and credit that with a lot of my recovery.

 

[Cactusflower]

@homorobothead I am sorry for what happened to you.
Once my Mom asked me if she was the cause of my pain. This is after sort of kind of trying to explain TMS to her. Well, that was kind of insightful of her. I told her that I own my own issues, and to put it out of her head.
For my own self, confronting her would just mean her continued denial.
My Mom had undiagnosed mental health issues including anxiety, on and off depression, some narcissistic tenancies and on occasion hit me. It all culminated in my screaming at her after the worst incident (when I was 14 or 15), which she repeatedly brought up for the next 20 years but NEVER once ever once mentioned her role in the "incident".
But the moment she asked me if she was to blame, I knew she knew. Although I think she did love us, and built her life around us, she was never capable of selfless love, not even for a second. She wasn't raised with it either.
I had no idea that I'd been through any kind of abuse until my husband and I talked about the ACE's test, and then heard more about it on NPR where they discussed taking the test through the eyes of a child. I never considered I'd even scored on the test until I heard that segment on the radio, and my husband was so surprised that I didn't even recognize what had happened to me.
I also had some other unique things happen growing up that the ACE's test doesn't cover, but surely had an impact.
At some in my recovery, a couple of therapists I saw suggested I had probably been sexually abused, most likely as an infant. I remember many preditorial attempts towards me when I was a very young child, and had a keen awareness of what was happening and got out of the situation. Who at 3-4 knows what's going on unless you've had some experience? It was not from an immediate family member. Lots fell into place when I recognized that this may have been truth. I didn't dwell on it at all (because I don't remember) but just took it into consideration.

The last 6 months, my Mom lost much of her memory in a steady decline, and my pain got way better.
You only have to believe that you are RIGHT, that your experiences and feelings about what happened are valid Sort out any ways in which your thoughts and opinions about whatever went on are not a form of co-dependancy about it all. That helped me IMMENSELY.

I am still considered to be incompetent, spoiled, willful etc by a family member. I decided they can think of me what they want. Their opinion has nothing to do with the person I've become, the things I've done and accomplished, and it doesn't tarnish my love for them. Perhaps some day if they want to truly listen I will tell them my truth, but for now, it's enough for me to know it.

Someday it will be enough for you too. You are doing the work, and it's hard and messy and ugly, but you get to the other side.

 

[homorobothead]

@homorobothead

My dear friend, I am so sad to read what you have experienced. You are such a strong person with such a beautiful soul - nobody deserves such parents and such childhood. I think you are doing exactly the right things.

I did not experience anything like you did, but I also have a mentally ill mother. Whenever she did or said something evil to me, it helps to remind me that it is not really her but her ill mind that is speaking/acting and it has nothing to do with me.

Hey friend,

You are also so strong and diligent, and I just appreciate you just being you. I think it speaks volumes that we are so similar in so many ways.

There was once a study done, where they put people in an MRI and measured what sections of their brains lit up when someone said mean things to them or they were asked to recall instances where someone said mean things to them and it turns out it was exactly the same pain that lights up when we are in physical pain.

Parents are powerful shapers, but you are absolutely right about not taking it personally when a mentally ill person says/does something cruel. It's more the sickness talking, but it's also ok to feel hurt.

I hope your stomach is feeling a bit better, and I know we can both do this! Thank you for the support. <3

 

[homorobothead]

I once asked that question about Narcissism. I read the traits of one and said "Hey...Maybe I am a Narcissist because I have some of these things"...the therapist told me 'a real Narcy would never ask that question"'

Likewise, if your wondering if maybe You're the asshole, You're NOT the asshole.

I used to be Jealous of a kid who lived down the street. His Dad was a badass Marine Vet, looked like a Superhero in a pin striped suit , His Mom was the most glamorous woman in our community and he had a Beautiful sister and the nicest home.

We have been friends now since I moved to America ('71)Maybe 50+ years? .....His Family was beaten Daily by his pops for YEARS. I knew nothing about it and I saw all of them all of the time. It is one of the worst things as far as TMS creation. My Friend has all sorts of issues but HAS worked through them by being honest and open....not 'being the victim' open, but discussing it in the right places, like this forum for example. He also got in his Pops face about it and worked through some of it...his dad wasn't as in denial as it sounds like your family is.

Sarno cited it as the worst of the worst for Mindbody symptoms. I don't know where you are in the Program, but just cutting them off is a good START but you might want to find a way to express that grief and anger even if it feels a little staged at first. Screaming therapy? Breaking things? Going to the firing range? I did it. It was awesome and I always felt better.

Our conscious brain needs to tell the Unconscious it's 'OK' and knowing it, writing about it is a great start , but actually allowing the suppressed rage out into the real universe is SO therapeutic. I have done it many different ways, and credit that with a lot of my recovery.

You're the man, @Baseball65!

Thank you for this clear and empathetic response. Storytelling is such a powerful tool and your friend's story is a perfect example of how people hide things they are ashamed of (me included). I'm sure his father had all sorts of mental health issues from the Marines. My husband is a Marine and the training alone tunes up their bodies and brains to see a lot of harmless things as threats, then they are sent off far from home to do some pretty inhumane things and are in turn treated pretty inhumanely. It's not an excuse. We are ultimately responsible for our actions. But, I'm sure that played into his behavior.

Likewise, my mother's family were Jewish refugees from the USSR and fled to the US during the Holodomor (she converted to Baptist when she met my father). There's all kinds of pain and fear there that was passed down to her. I'm sure she felt wildly out of control and probably panicked when she felt out of contorl of me. Again, not an excuse and the damage is done, but a sense of understanding does help. Honestly, I think I have exactly the same tendency as my folks to hide shame, but I was so convicted to never foist it on others that I hid it in my body instead.

But you are correct that I need to let my rage out. I live way out in the country and can go and shoot my gun, or whack some golfballs, or primally scream. I'm also a potter, so when something ugly comes out of the kiln I can just go and smash it good instead of sadly putting it in the trash. In fact, I think I will go and do that today!

Seriously, I'm glad to have your perspective and your advice has helped a ton.

 

[homorobothead]

@homorobothead I am sorry for what happened to you.
Once my Mom asked me if she was the cause of my pain. This is after sort of kind of trying to explain TMS to her. Well, that was kind of insightful of her. I told her that I own my own issues, and to put it out of her head.
For my own self, confronting her would just mean her continued denial.
My Mom had undiagnosed mental health issues including anxiety, on and off depression, some narcissistic tenancies and on occasion hit me. It all culminated in my screaming at her after the worst incident (when I was 14 or 15), which she repeatedly brought up for the next 20 years but NEVER once ever once mentioned her role in the "incident".
But the moment she asked me if she was to blame, I knew she knew. Although I think she did love us, and built her life around us, she was never capable of selfless love, not even for a second. She wasn't raised with it either.
I had no idea that I'd been through any kind of abuse until my husband and I talked about the ACE's test, and then heard more about it on NPR where they discussed taking the test through the eyes of a child. I never considered I'd even scored on the test until I heard that segment on the radio, and my husband was so surprised that I didn't even recognize what had happened to me.
I also had some other unique things happen growing up that the ACE's test doesn't cover, but surely had an impact.
At some in my recovery, a couple of therapists I saw suggested I had probably been sexually abused, most likely as an infant. I remember many preditorial attempts towards me when I was a very young child, and had a keen awareness of what was happening and got out of the situation. Who at 3-4 knows what's going on unless you've had some experience? It was not from an immediate family member. Lots fell into place when I recognized that this may have been truth. I didn't dwell on it at all (because I don't remember) but just took it into consideration.

The last 6 months, my Mom lost much of her memory in a steady decline, and my pain got way better.
You only have to believe that you are RIGHT, that your experiences and feelings about what happened are valid Sort out any ways in which your thoughts and opinions about whatever went on are not a form of co-dependancy about it all. That helped me IMMENSELY.

I am still considered to be incompetent, spoiled, willful etc by a family member. I decided they can think of me what they want. Their opinion has nothing to do with the person I've become, the things I've done and accomplished, and it doesn't tarnish my love for them. Perhaps some day if they want to truly listen I will tell them my truth, but for now, it's enough for me to know it.

Someday it will be enough for you too. You are doing the work, and it's hard and messy and ugly, but you get to the other side.

I meant to tell you that I took the ACE's test. I had never heard of it before y'all were talking about it in a thread, and so I went and took it and scored a 6/10 and was like "OHHH."

It was like when I was in college and told someone a story where my dad did something pretty brutal but then would tell the story in a jokey way like "what a bad kid you were" type of deal, so I told it in a jokey way and she looked at me and said "He thought that was funny? That was abuse." It all clicked then. I thought everyone's parents did the things mine did. They were always trying to control the narrative, I guess.

But, you are right, of course, that understanding my own narrative and being proud of my accomplishments independently of what others think is slowly coming into focus for me. It worked really well this weekend when I went to visit some friends and usually I'd be so focused on making them feel good, that I would focus intently on every word I'd said as to not hurt them and would be in so much pain by the end of the visit, but this time I remembered y'all's words of wisdom, trusted that I wasn't some kind of inherently hurtful witch-goblin, and I have zero pain this morning! Plus, the visit went great.

I can see the shore, and I'm still swimming, but land is in sight.

Today is my third day of being in zero pain!

Thank you for reaching out and being vulnerable with your own story. I really appreciate your insight. I hope your week is full of light and excellent luck.

 

[homorobothead]

@homorobothead,
You are a brave kind soul. I’m so sad to hear what you have been through. Don’t worry that you are being unkind to your parents. Sometimes—especially when it comes to abuse—drastic measures are needed to survive and heal. You are not being unfair. I’m glad you’re being good to yourself. Hugs!

There's that beautiful Pollyanna! Hugs right back at you, you sweet soul.