Success story: CFS, Hip pain, MRI labral tear, FAI, IBS, Insomnia, eczema, tooth pain & many others

[Joima]

I've literally done every program there is. I've spoken to Steve O. I've followed Dan Buglio. Been coached by Jim from the Pain Pt. The list goes on. I'm across every piece of information.

I leave all of these forums and coaching sessions understanding what's actually going on.

Then I start asking myself, "now what?".

If I wrote down on paper what I do everyday you wouldn't even think I'm dealing with TMS. I go to the gym every second day, I ride my stationary bike, I run a business, take my kids to their sports, and spend time with my wife and family.

As some of the coaches say, I'm "living my life" as much as I possibly can, yet I'm seeing absolutely no improvement physically.

By no means am I the most intelligent person going around, but I'm certainly able to understand general concepts and explanations........yet I still don't understand what the work is.

I hear terms like letting go, surrender, acceptance etc etc etc.......What is the work?????? I'd run a marathon in excruciating pain if it meant beating this.

The only thing I can grasp, is that if you're meant to live your life despite the sensations etc, that you have to continuously remind yourself that the cause of what's going on is your brain, and if you keep attending to any other thoughts, then respond with that same notion......that nothing is wrong other than an overactive nervous system.....

I've literally done every program there is. I've spoken to Steve O. I've followed Dan Buglio. Been coached by Jim from the Pain Pt. The list goes on. I'm across every piece of information.

I leave all of these forums and coaching sessions understanding what's actually going on.

Then I start asking myself, "now what?".

If I wrote down on paper what I do everyday you wouldn't even think I'm dealing with TMS. I go to the gym every second day, I ride my stationary bike, I run a business, take my kids to their sports, and spend time with my wife and family.

As some of the coaches say, I'm "living my life" as much as I possibly can, yet I'm seeing absolutely no improvement physically.

By no means am I the most intelligent person going around, but I'm certainly able to understand general concepts and explanations........yet I still don't understand what the work is.

I hear terms like letting go, surrender, acceptance etc etc etc.......What is the work?????? I'd run a marathon in excruciating pain if it meant beating this.

The only thing I can grasp, is that if you're meant to live your life despite the sensations etc, that you have to continuously remind yourself that the cause of what's going on is your brain, and if you keep attending to any other thoughts, then respond with that same notion......that nothing is wrong other than an overactive nervous system.....

Hey Joel,

One of the things I tried to share in my success story is how I kept noticing that there was resistance to my symptoms, even after years of being coached and doing tms "work." And we know that until we get to a point where we don't care if they are there or not, the symptoms will persist. This is a pretty radical mindset to get to. Dan Buglio calls it indifference, but that seems a little cold to me. I call it "allow," which feels more inclusive. I don't like the word "acceptance" either, as that feels like resignation. So, maybe a slight shift in terminology could help you.

What was the game-changer for me was when I was finally in a place where I could "allow" every part of myself (IFS) to be here without getting all involved in fix-it mode. I then noticed that I was not resistant to my symptoms so much! So, this "allowing" came from a calm, confident Self that could allow all these expressions of the mind-body (emotional and symptom) to be here for as long as needed. It's like tending to small children. We don't ignore them, we don't push them away, we don't need them to grow up, or anything else. They are all simply fine the way they are. If there is a flare, it's just a child flaring, and I allowed it. This is what finally shifted the symptoms for me.

 

[Diana-M]

Hey Joel,

One of the things I tried to share in my success story is how I kept noticing that there was resistance to my symptoms, even after years of being coached and doing tms "work." And we know that until we get to a point where we don't care if they are there or not, the symptoms will persist. This is a pretty radical mindset to get to. Dan Buglio calls it indifference, but that seems a little cold to me. I call it "allow," which feels more inclusive. I don't like the word "acceptance" either, as that feels like resignation. So, maybe a slight shift in terminology could help you.

What was the game-changer for me was when I was finally in a place where I could "allow" every part of myself (IFS) to be here without getting all involved in fix-it mode. I then noticed that I was not resistant to my symptoms so much! So, this "allowing" came from a calm, confident Self that could allow all these expressions of the mind-body (emotional and symptom) to be here for as long as needed. It's like tending to small children. We don't ignore them, we don't push them away, we don't need them to grow up, or anything else. They are all simply fine the way they are. If there is a flare, it's just a child flaring, and I allowed it. This is what finally shifted the symptoms for me.

Hi Joima,
I was going to ask you about this very thing! As far as symptoms, you’re saying they are expressions from our parts (IFS) as they grieve or get angry about whatever they went through? And they need to act out with these expressions of symptoms for as long as need be. They deserve it, for all they’ve been through. Just sympathize with them. Is that the idea? I’ve been in IFS for 3 years but my therapist isn’t familiar with TMS (although she’s learning!), so I’ve never really fully embraced that the parts are the ones doing this. It makes total sense, though. My therapist thinks there is a part of me (a 4 year old who hid in the closet after being sexually abused) who doesn’t want me to leave the house. She’s scared. So she locks me up. I literally feel like little arms are squeezing around my hips where a 4 year old could grab me whenever I go toward the door to leave. Can you describe a little more about how you helped these parts while they were acting out? What did you say to them? What did you think? Thank you!

 

[BloodMoon]

As some of the coaches say, I'm "living my life" as much as I possibly can, yet I'm seeing absolutely no improvement physically.

For some people 'living your life' might be the whole of the answer to getting better, but for others it's just one part of the 'recipe' (more on this below). Also, although we can't help but notice symptoms, what I've found is that when I stopped assessing how my symptoms were doing, with regard to whether they were improving or not, I subtly and very gradually started to feel better without realising it -- that is, not until I couldn't help but notice a profound shift. TMS symptoms often fluctuate and recovery isn't usually a linear process so you can discourage yourself if you don't think along the lines of 'it will take as long as it takes for my brain to learn that there's nothing to fear and for it to learn that my anger/rage isn't dangerous''.

I hear terms like letting go, surrender, acceptance etc etc etc.......What is the work??????

I used to ask myself that question a lot! Imo and from my own experience (and from having read numerous success stories on these forums) 'the work' is whatever works (no pun intended) on its own, or in combination with other things, in order for you to calm down your particular brain and make it feel safe. As you will know, these forums are full of ideas of how to do this, e.g. somatic tracking (a la Alan Gordon), meditating, mindfulness, journaling (e.g. a la Nicole Sachs), identifying stressors that make you angry/rage and talking to your brain (a la Dr Sarno), affirmations etc. Some people journal and/or meditate and get better, but for others they never found those things to be of any help (or never even tried them) but they did somatic tracking and/or talked to their brain and that worked for them instead, and so it goes... The process of finding the right 'recipe' for us personally to conquer our TMS can be exceedingly frustrating... but keep going -- it may take a long time, or just simply longer than you would like it to, but it's worth it. (I say this because I would class myself as a TMS 'struggler'. I've been a lot improved for quite a long time now, but it's only been recently that I've found what things really 'hit the spot' for me and my brain.)

 

[Joima]

Hi Joima,
I was going to ask you about this very thing! As far as symptoms, you’re saying they are expressions from our parts (IFS) as they grieve or get angry about whatever they went through? And they need to act out with these expressions of symptoms for as long as need be. They deserve it, for all they’ve been through. Just sympathize with them. Is that the idea? I’ve been in IFS for 3 years but my therapist isn’t familiar with TMS (although she’s learning!), so I’ve never really fully embraced that the parts are the ones doing this. It makes total sense, though. My therapist thinks there is a part of me (a 4 year old who hid in the closet after being sexually abused) who doesn’t want me to leave the house. She’s scared. So she locks me up. I literally feel like little arms are squeezing around my hips where a 4 year old could grab me whenever I go toward the door to leave. Can you describe a little more about how you helped these parts while they were acting out? What did you say to them? What did you think? Thank you!

Hi Diana,

It’s great that you’re diving so deep into your inner self, and learning about those young, innocent parts!

But I want to be clear that I do not associate clearing out all the unconscious energies with our symptom recovery. We can overdo certain approaches, and IFS is one of them. If we’re using IFS to make our symptoms go away, we’re back in the fix-it mode.

I agree that a multi-dimensional approach is best. Getting out, having fun, and moving are all ways to give the brain a message of safety.
But IFS is an awesome tool for uncovering emotional repression. It works!

I did make the association that the more we can allow those parts/exiles to be, the more we can discover within ourselves a key to allowing our symptoms to be. If we can’t allow ourselves to be, it will be difficult/impossible to allow our symptoms to be.

As far as talking about my symptoms or parts, I don't really do that too much. Once in a while, I will ask what it needs or how it's feeling. It is more to give it a voice- to allow the repression out. I'm getting pretty good at sensing when there is an emotional energy under the surface, and that is when I like to give it my attention. Compassion always wins in repression work. No matter what we feel, it is super important to feel love towards those places. And we can do this with our symptoms as well.

 

[Baseball65]

If I wrote down on paper what I do everyday you wouldn't even think I'm dealing with TMS. I go to the gym every second day, I ride my stationary bike, I run a business, take my kids to their sports, and spend time with my wife and family.

I was right there. Suffice it to say when I finally hit bottom, I was right where you are in the salad days of my life...Bitchin' Jobs, Coaching my kids, Loving beautiful wife........

...and NONE of it was what I had planned.

Between 'positive thinking' and Tony Robbins types I had told myself that my life was so much more than I deserved for so long, I forgot I used to be a Pirate. I was a Pirate who was captain of a ship, dating Models and waitresses tootling around with celebrity types in Hollywood, and then she got pregnant.....and I was a 'GOOD GUY' tm

SO now I work at a 'bitchin job' that I really only do because its the best $ I can come up with to keep the wolf away from the door. Because I am a 'good dad'...I turned down a solo record deal, because I am a 'GOOD GUY'tm
I used to play Baseball....now I get to coach a bunch of spoiled Beverly Hills brats who have become feminized and soft playing video games...but my poor working class son will be stuck in a mall with his Mom if I don't save him from her. I am a 'good dad' so I never even think about how rage inducing it is.

I used to be a skater/surfer fit type, but now I am thickening around the waist mediocre toad ; The 'me' that I used to know is becoming a 'Good guy' and in spite of all of the warmth and affection (n't) and support(double n't) My back starts hurting

When I read "Healing Back Pain" I knew I had it from the first page...so I went though and turned every single suggestion into a drill....I also broke stuff, I unloaded rounds into abandoned furniture....I welcomed the Pirate back... I didn't have to be a dick, but I did have to be myself. Not a very popular character in 'adult' world, but my pain went away, and right soon.
I screamed... I wrote graphically violent songs, I made lists of every and any and everybody who made me the slightest bit angry and asked myself WHY? I wrote down stuff and told friends HORRIBLY honest things that most people are afraid to even discuss...not about them...about me

I never have ever in my life met a professional TMS coach. How are they gonna guide me to things in my life that are so f-ing obvious I can't see them? My friends who have known me on the other hand, could probably point me in the right direction in 20 minutes of 'whats going on with you man?"

The most obvious things will be the things that you are OK with. Buried in that "I am not angry about being a father, husband, business owner,etc" will be the reason why the pain is there...and the 'Good Guy' is busy staying busy so we never ask ourselves how we feel about the new furniture instead of the new guitar we wanted

and yeah, when I was in pain I could still throw batting practice, Push the whole stack at PT and work SOME of the time....But I was in pain ALL of the time with sciatica in both legs and Hip/lowback pain most of the time.

and i am now 58 and work harder...but what I am doing (other than proving Sarno right) is unimportant...what matters is how I perceive myself psychologically and what I do with that anger, and how vigilant I maintain the processing of it... My day is FULL of rage inducers now, but I 'talk to me' about it as I become aware of it's generation....if I don't? I get little warnings

and lastly...each one of us has to make a connection with their own Pirate, Rock star, Athlete..whatever that kid wanted to be that got changed on the way to being a 'good guy'

 

[Diana-M]

Compassion always wins in repression work. No matter what we feel, it is super important to feel love towards those places. And we can do this with our symptoms as well.

Thanks, Joima! No, I don’t rely only on IFS. I am spreading the gamut on tactics, for sure. But progress is slow. I did feel more acceptance toward the pain today, per your advice. Even though I’m in a huge flare. Super discouraging. It gets tiring sometimes. And so tempted to feel sorry for myself. Stories like yours help a lot!

 

[Diana-M]

I forgot I used to be a Pirate.

, I unloaded rounds into abandoned furniture

I wrote down stuff and told friends HORRIBLY honest things

How are they gonna guide me to things in my life that are so f-ing obvious I can't see them? My friends who have known me on the other hand, could probably point me in the right direction in 20 minutes

each one of us has to make a connection with their own Pirate, Rock star, Athlete..whatever that kid wanted to be that got changed on the way to being a 'good guy'

Wow! Good stuff! I wish you’d write a book (on anything). You have an engaging way of describing things.

Being good does seem to cause a lot of anger. But in the end, it’s what we want to be. Right? So how can we be two people? That’s the part I ask God all the time. “Please look the other way, while I try and get this rage out. You created me. And you created my subconscious. I can only work with what you’ve given me.” Meanwhile my pain is still going strong. I need to write a violent song or unload some rounds, I think.

 

[Joel Basist]

I was right there. Suffice it to say when I finally hit bottom, I was right where you are in the salad days of my life...Bitchin' Jobs, Coaching my kids, Loving beautiful wife........

...and NONE of it was what I had planned.

Between 'positive thinking' and Tony Robbins types I had told myself that my life was so much more than I deserved for so long, I forgot I used to be a Pirate. I was a Pirate who was captain of a ship, dating Models and waitresses tootling around with celebrity types in Hollywood, and then she got pregnant.....and I was a 'GOOD GUY' tm

SO now I work at a 'bitchin job' that I really only do because its the best $ I can come up with to keep the wolf away from the door. Because I am a 'good dad'...I turned down a solo record deal, because I am a 'GOOD GUY'tm
I used to play Baseball....now I get to coach a bunch of spoiled Beverly Hills brats who have become feminized and soft playing video games...but my poor working class son will be stuck in a mall with his Mom if I don't save him from her. I am a 'good dad' so I never even think about how rage inducing it is.

I used to be a skater/surfer fit type, but now I am thickening around the waist mediocre toad ; The 'me' that I used to know is becoming a 'Good guy' and in spite of all of the warmth and affection (n't) and support(double n't) My back starts hurting

When I read "Healing Back Pain" I knew I had it from the first page...so I went though and turned every single suggestion into a drill....I also broke stuff, I unloaded rounds into abandoned furniture....I welcomed the Pirate back... I didn't have to be a dick, but I did have to be myself. Not a very popular character in 'adult' world, but my pain went away, and right soon.
I screamed... I wrote graphically violent songs, I made lists of every and any and everybody who made me the slightest bit angry and asked myself WHY? I wrote down stuff and told friends HORRIBLY honest things that most people are afraid to even discuss...not about them...about me

I never have ever in my life met a professional TMS coach. How are they gonna guide me to things in my life that are so f-ing obvious I can't see them? My friends who have known me on the other hand, could probably point me in the right direction in 20 minutes of 'whats going on with you man?"

The most obvious things will be the things that you are OK with. Buried in that "I am not angry about being a father, husband, business owner,etc" will be the reason why the pain is there...and the 'Good Guy' is busy staying busy so we never ask ourselves how we feel about the new furniture instead of the new guitar we wanted

and yeah, when I was in pain I could still throw batting practice, Push the whole stack at PT and work SOME of the time....But I was in pain ALL of the time with sciatica in both legs and Hip/lowback pain most of the time.

and i am now 58 and work harder...but what I am doing (other than proving Sarno right) is unimportant...what matters is how I perceive myself psychologically and what I do with that anger, and how vigilant I maintain the processing of it... My day is FULL of rage inducers now, but I 'talk to me' about it as I become aware of it's generation....if I don't? I get little warnings

and lastly...each one of us has to make a connection with their own Pirate, Rock star, Athlete..whatever that kid wanted to be that got changed on the way to being a 'good guy'

This all makes sense. And without a doubt I need to make some of these changes to my life.

What keeps me stuck is that I don’t just have sensations. I have actually visible swelling and colour changes. Infections and surgeries were the initial cause, but for whatever reason my body is just not healing even though my scans show I have good cartilage and structure.

I need to find modalities that will enable my nervous system to allow myself to heal.

unsure whether those changes you mentioned, whilst helpful, will ultimately do that for me

 

[JanAtheCPA]

I've literally done every program there is...

Well dang, it would have been helpful to know about your TMS experience up front. Just sayin'...

By no means am I the most intelligent person going around, but I'm certainly able to understand general concepts and explanations........yet I still don't understand what the work is.

I tell you, I sometimes feel like the contrarian around here, because I often focus on the weird shit. Like this.

Joel, it really struck me how you felt you needed to express your understanding of TMS concepts in terms of your intelligence. Then I immediately flashed on a term I've heard, but have not studied, which is "emotional intelligence". So I looked it up and read a few things online. There is a ton of information about it. It is sometimes referred to as EQ, which is the emotional equivalent of IQ.

In other words, there's intellectual intelligence, which is one thing, and there's emotional intelligence, which is a whole other thing.

I have no doubt that you have enough intellectual intelligence to understand TMS concepts. You write well and make yourself understood, you're undoubtedly well-educated and I suspect that your IQ is probably well above average.

Keeping in mind that I have no professional mental health credentials whatsoever, and that I'm basing the following only on 13 years of experience doing this work for myself and watching many others do it over that time period - I am willing to take a bit of a risk and say that I suspect that your emotional intelligence - aka your EQ - is pretty abysmal. Probably well below average in fact. Remember that this is a completely nonprofessional assessment based on zero training - it's just my gut instinct. Which has served me fairly well my whole life, and that's why I'm going for it.

Check out these resources which IMHO are relevant. A lot of EQ information focuses on workplace relationships, which is not particularly useful to what we do. I found much better hits when I increased my search keywords to "emotional intelligence chronic pain".

How Emotional Intelligence Can Help Manage Chronic Pain (creakyjoints.org)
This is an RA-specific site which has accurate technical information but for my taste they cater too much to the fact that many RA patients also suffer from what we know are peripheral TMS conditions like fibro and CFS)

Measuring Emotional Intelligence Enhances the Psychological Evaluation of Chronic Pain - PubMed (nih.gov)
This is a short but super-interesting abstract of a research study. Be sure to click through on some of the associated and cited studies below the abstract. They are mostly quick reads and build on the basic premise.

Again, there is a lot more information if you keyword search "emotional intelligence chronic pain".

I'll be interested to hear what you think. Ultimately, however, my sense (there's my gut again) is that you might have exhausted your self-help options and whatever this forum can offer. I feel like you've got a more difficult path ahead of you if you're willing to take it. I wish you luck.

 

[Joel Basist]

Well dang, it would have been helpful to know about your TMS experience up front. Just sayin'...



I tell you, I sometimes feel like the contrarian around here, because I often focus on the weird shit. Like this.

Joel, it really struck me how you felt you needed to express your understanding of TMS concepts in terms of your intelligence. Then I immediately flashed on a term I've heard, but have not studied, which is "emotional intelligence". So I looked it up and read a few things online. There is a ton of information about it. It is sometimes referred to as EQ, which is the emotional equivalent of IQ.

In other words, there's intellectual intelligence, which is one thing, and there's emotional intelligence, which is a whole other thing.

I have no doubt that you have enough intellectual intelligence to understand TMS concepts. You write well and make yourself understood, you're undoubtedly well-educated and I suspect that your IQ is probably well above average.

Keeping in mind that I have no professional mental health credentials whatsoever, and that I'm basing the following only on 13 years of experience doing this work for myself and watching many others do it over that time period - I am willing to take a bit of a risk and say that I suspect that your emotional intelligence - aka your EQ - is pretty abysmal. Probably well below average in fact. Remember that this is a completely nonprofessional assessment based on zero training - it's just my gut instinct. Which has served me fairly well my whole life, and that's why I'm going for it.

Check out these resources which IMHO are relevant. A lot of EQ information focuses on workplace relationships, which is not particularly useful to what we do. I found much better hits when I increased my search keywords to "emotional intelligence chronic pain".

How Emotional Intelligence Can Help Manage Chronic Pain (creakyjoints.org)
This is an RA-specific site which has accurate technical information but for my taste they cater too much to the fact that many RA patients also suffer from what we know are peripheral TMS conditions like fibro and CFS)

Measuring Emotional Intelligence Enhances the Psychological Evaluation of Chronic Pain - PubMed (nih.gov)
This is a short but super-interesting abstract of a research study. Be sure to click through on some of the associated and cited studies below the abstract. They are mostly quick reads and build on the basic premise.

Again, there is a lot more information if you keyword search "emotional intelligence chronic pain".

I'll be interested to hear what you think. Ultimately, however, my sense (there's my gut again) is that you might have exhausted your self-help options and whatever this forum can offer. I feel like you've got a more difficult path ahead of you if you're willing to take it. I wish you luck.

I understand all what you’re saying. I truly do. And I know this is my path. I don’t question it for one second. I just find it difficult to articulate in my mind the actual work in terms of it healing my physical body.

I’ve done therapy. I’ve done some emotional work.

but it has had minimal impact on my body.

I’m still not understanding what the work is other than telling myself I’m safe and that I’ll get well

 

[BloodMoon]

I’m still not understanding what the work is other than telling myself I’m safe and that I’ll get well

I have advised you what I believe 'the work is' in my posting above and @Joima has said in their posting (also above) that the key to their recovery was not caring whether the symptoms are there or not and they describe how this happened for them (and therefore could happen for you too). I'm not having a go at you for not acknowledging our postings, I really don't care about that (and I do appreciate that maybe you just haven't had the time to respond to all of the replies you have received) but I feel compelled to point out to you that this may be a very significant thing --I surmise that your TMSing brain has probably got you scooting over them so that you will take no notice of them. It doesn't want you to listen to what 'the work is'!

You replied to @Baseball65 with the following:

unsure whether those changes you mentioned, whilst helpful, will ultimately do that for me

Maybe you're right and what @Baseball65 suggested might not help you in the long run, but I again surmise that this is likely to be your TMSing brain creating negativity and ruling the roost. Of note is that just because @Baseball65's circumstances and physical symptoms may be/were different to yours, it doesn't mean that what he's suggesting won't work for your symptoms, if that's what you were thinking... You're dealing with a TMSing brain here -- what kind of bodily symptoms it decides to give you is irrelevant (the brain can create all manner of physical symptoms in the body).

I’ve done therapy. I’ve done some emotional work.

I'm not suggesting you list what you've done on here, but have you tried reading Dr Sarno's books over and over again to hammer the message home to your subconscious mind/brain that the game is up and you know exactly what's going on and/or journaled (e.g. about daily stressors, what angers and enrages you) and/or meditated and/or practised Somatic Tracking etc., and given them a really good go on daily and consistent basis for quite a while? If you haven't, then you need to override your TMSing brain and persist and stick to a routine of doing them -- imo, and from my experience, that's the way to go. For some people it's not just a case of 'getting on with normal life', we need to augment 'getting on with normal life' with other practises and experiment to find which practises work, in combination or own their own, for our particular brain.

I wish you all the best.

 

[Mando]

That's a very detailed and helpful post. Well done. It provides hope for others going through this journey