1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
    Dismiss Notice

Relapse and Confusion

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Sumol, May 13, 2018.

  1. Sumol

    Sumol New Member

    Hey Team,

    I've actually been on this site for awhile, but my other account has more positive posts, and I didn't want people to read this thread and feel discouraged, so I created a new account.

    All my life I was free of pain until last year. I went through all the pains you can think of: RSI, tendonitis in legs and arms, neck pain, back back, hip pain, knee pain, foot pain, and even blurred vision for months. I couldn't walk properly for months or squat down. I felt like I was becoming crippled. I'm only in my mid twenties and have been active all my life. I lost 40lbs and became so weak. I did blood tests, MRIs, nerve conduction tests, and everything came back fine. It was around November of last year that I read Dr. Sarno's work and Alan Gordon's 21 day program and healed about 80-85%. It was amazing! I 100% believed in it. I continued to apply the work, go to church, and live my life and my pain was almost completely gone. I even helped family members improve.

    The pain was never 100% gone though, but i did have a few days were there was no pain at all. Some reason, over the last 2 months, I've had new pain symptoms that bother me constantly. It started as nerve like pain that shoots into my feet, ear, and hands. I also get buzzing sensations and discomfort throughout my body(it feels like it's spreading). My tendons and ligaments feel weak and I'm always worried my body is failing. I was back at the gym for awhile and "threw out" my back, but the pain/stiffness hasn't left for 2 months now. I also get discomfort in my hips again and knees. I stay active though. I go for runs and do body weight exercises, but the pain comes back when I slow down.

    Some reason I started to lose faith in a lot of things including my religious belief and tms diagnosis. It's silly to think with all the evidence there on how I healed, but I dont know why it wont sink in deep down. I even tried listening to spiritual people like Wayne Dyer, Abraham Hicks, Eckhart Tolle, but my mind becomes negative. I just think about how maybe that stuff is all a scam and how some of them died of disease's so if they couldn't cure themselves, how can I?

    How do you adjust that negative way of thinking? I want to have faith in my religion and tms and in healing, but I'm so pessimistic now and my pain is getting worse again. I've even spoken with two TMS physicians who believe this is all TMS. They told me it's probably not emotional issues and journaling wont help and that it's probably fear related.

    How do I stop thinking about my body at all times of the day? It was easy when I first got better because I was excited to start living, but now I don't care about my job and I don't really have hobbies that excite me. It's also frustrating that it affects my whole body and not just one area.

    Thanks in advance to anyone who reads and replies. I don't mean to sound so negative, but I feel frustrated with my body and my way of thinking.
  2. KevinB

    KevinB Well known member

    I feel your pain an confusion. After many years of being free after much TMS work, I had a relapse and have run the gamut. It’s tough, I grapple with the same doubts, but I’m really seeing that it’s part of TMS to keep on questioning, in order to keep the pain and fear around. We become addicted and obsessed with our bodies- it’s an awful way to live, indeed. But it can and will pass if we persevere. Our stories are very similar to many others here- doubt, loss of belief, increased symptoms.... but those who accept that they are ok, they are already healed NOW, when that sinks in, that’s it.

    Unfortunately I don’t have a one size fits all answer, I’m still searching for my own truth. But we know that others have overcome this, we both have in the past, or at least mostly (I was never 100% either). Some of the stories on here and in the books are SO gnarly, and those people triumph. They’re human, we’re human- they can do it, we can do it.
    Sumol, Ellen, Lainey and 1 other person like this.
  3. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is achingly thoughtful of you and is a consideration that has held me back somewhat from posting about an issue and subsequent relapse in my own life so I have decided to throw caution to the wind in the hopes that my response will benefit both of us and anyone else in the same boat.

    This is nothing more than The Symptom Imperative. It's nothing to worry about because it is an entirely normal part of recovery. Pretty much everyone goes through it in some form or another.

    Again, this is fairly common. We all pass through phases where we question our beliefs and values and it is entirely natural for these inquiries to arise during times of health, pain, illness and healing. It does well to seperate TMS from more serious conditions though. While unconscious emotions play a part in all health and illness there are other factors. I'm guessing you are refering to Jerry Hicks and Wayne Dyer who both passed with cancer. I felt pretty troubled when Jerry Hicks died as I was still unsure and learning about TMS. The truth is we cannot see into the minds and hearts of others, and we cannot know what they have endured or how they lived day-to-day. This mystery is something to hold in the greatest of compassion. We cannot know and control everything. This is quite different to overcoming neural networks that create and maintain pain and other autonomic nervous system conditions.

    Take a gander at this talk by Rick Hanson.

    http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/the-final-leg-need-tips.18154/#post-96490 (The Final Leg: Need Tips)

    It sounds like they are trying to nudge you out of pure Sarno thinking and more into an expansive approach to recovery..?
    Did they suggest any means or methods?

    Depression and it's gang of fools (apathy, listlessness, cynicism, sadness, obssessive rumination...) are a form of the symptom imperative.


    Ok. So I said I was struggling with a relapse too. Mine is due to an event that is currently and pain-stakingly slowly rolling out (the man who I have a restraining order against violated the injunction. This happened a little over a month ago. I am in a state of limbo waiting for the police to deal with it and unsurprisingly I'm extremely vigilant because I have no idea what the crazy bastards next move may be).

    Interestingly I feel very little emotion about it (big red flag billows in the breeze) but I am blowing other annoyances way out of proportion (mother-in-law is driving me nuts).

    I have loosened my TMS game a little which has undeniably not helped. I have had a fairly epic rant which also didn't help. I have been feeling discouraged (huge understatement).

    But what to do other than get back on the horse? I know how weary dealing with TMS can make one but in the end it's just another tussle that we will win. I'm thinking of getting out of my comfort zone by following one of the structured programs. I'm inclinced towards Schubiner (again. Previously followed 6 years ago).


    What's going on in your life?
    Especially during the last 2 months?

    Plum x
    Time2be, readytoheal, westb and 3 others like this.
  4. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    I understand the impulse to refrain from posting anything negative on this site, especially if you have previously posted about improvements in your TMS. However, I think it is important for people to know that relapse in very, very common. Also, important for people to know that for most of us recovery takes quite a bit of time and does not involve a linear progression. I've read a lot of posts by people who are frustrated that they didn't obtain the immediate book cure written by so many on Amazon's book review section. But those posts did not include what might have happened months down the road, and so are not the complete story.

    For most of us recovery from TMS is not a permanent state that we cross into one day. Recovery requires a change in our thoughts and behavior, and an acknowledgment and acceptance of our emotions. This is an ongoing process just as life is. It's a new way of being and it is very easy to fall back into old patterns.

    I relapse several times a year. But by accepting that my symptoms are TMS, I am able to recover from them pretty quickly now. I view them now as a wake-up call that I have gotten off track and need to get back to the basics of paying attention to my emotions, thoughts, and behavior. Usually I find that I've been on "auto-pilot" and have fallen back into old dysfunctional patterns. The sooner I realize this, the sooner I am TMS free.

    So as plum says, what's been going on in your life recently? You have experienced improvement in your TMS in the past, so you know what to do.
    westb, Sumol and plum like this.
  5. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    So sorry to hear about your continued issues with your past tragedy, and subsequent relapse. I think re-doing a structured program is always a good strategy, and Schubiner's is my favorite. Everything in his program is infused with his wonderful mix of knowledge, kindness, and caring.

    I wish you peace and healing, dearest Plum.
    Time2be, HattieNC and plum like this.
  6. Sumol

    Sumol New Member

    Yeah, I guess there is no reason in comparing ourselves to others. Some people heal right away and others take years. I guess it's a matter of full acceptance. Thanks for the encouragement!
  7. Sumol

    Sumol New Member

    Hey Plum, Thank you for taking the time to respond to each of my sections. I really enjoyed the video you submitted and have read a lot of books on similar theories, but I guess it's always hard for me to stick with it and apply every day. I'll definitely work on it. It's also true that we don't know what these other people deal with and cannot compare. I guess it's always tough to believe their methods if it didn't even work for them, but that's not fair to say. I hear none of them really suffered pain even while ill and honestly that's the only thing that really scares me(pain).

    I actually talked to Dr. Schubiner (over the phone) about my symptoms and he believed journaling probably isn't the answer for me, but reducing the fear. I tried journaling in the past and though I had some bad moments in childhood, I never feel much emotion or have a lot to write about while journaling.

    I guess my main fear comes from the lack of similar stories on here about my symptoms. The main one I get that bothers me is tingling, buzzing, nerve like pain in my feet. It feels strongest when I'm wearing shoes and at work, but I get them even when I'm at home. I can be at the park bare foot and I feel okay(usually). I feel these sensations randomly in my body, but mainly my feet(and groin area) and it's frustrating because the foot pain has intensified and the groin pain was never there until this last month. There are moments I'm confident in TMS because the improvement I had in the past and how the pain comes and goes throughout the day.

    I'm sorry to hear about your current struggles. I can see why that would be stressful and cause physical symptoms. Hopefully you find a good resolution to this problem and a healthy way to let out the emotions(journaling or therapy). I'll keep you in my prayers.

    Last few months, I guess the main thing is returning to a job I dislike. I feel nothing here and want to escape, but I'm not confident enough in myself and dont know what else I would do for work. My partner also wants us to move into a place together so I have the pressure of having to keep this job. I feel like I acknowledge these issues and accept them for what they are right now. I wont make any changes until I return from a trip we're going on in July. I also worry that changing jobs wont solve the issue, so I want to conquer this pain and then move on just to prove it doesn't have control over me.
    plum likes this.
  8. Sumol

    Sumol New Member

    I definitely feel like my TMS is trying to teach me something, but I never know what. I feel having faith and not being negative about things is what I'm suppose to learn now, but it's quite difficult. I keep looking for reassurance and I find multiple things that are positive in my beliefs, but of course, the moment I see something negative, I start to give in. I've never been confident in myself and I almost feel like TMS is too go to be true and that so many suffer so why should i heal? Why haven't doctors acknowledged this? But I know the answers to these questions.

    I've printed out a few posts from Balto. He's the only person I saw on this forum that had similar pain issues and healed 100%. I started keep them in my bag at work for whenever I get a bad flare up.
    plum likes this.
  9. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    Dr. Schubiner is a real love. I had a chat with him a few years ago so I know how generous he is with both time and knowledge. I place faith in his opinion so if he believes fear is the thing to target it is fear you ought challenge.

    Interesting that you mention @balto in your reply to @Ellen because he's the person who speaks most sagely on fear. I'm not sure if he's covers fear in the posts you've printed out so if not do explore his words on this.

    The immediate thought I had after reading your reply was that you had foot pain and you felt the desire to escape. I had foot pain in my early 20's (before it was replaced by something else) and for pretty much most of my life I felt like I lived 'with running shoes on'. I later read about this same thing (in a book called Women Who Love Too Much if memory serves) and essentially this concerned the emotional underpinnings of the flight response. Paradoxically I also felt trapped. Unrooted. Ungrounded. Trapped. Unloved. Homeless. Hopeless. You get the picture. I don't know if any of that rings true for you, I only offer these as insights from my past. I have to say though to this day I dislike shoes and kick them off the first chance I get.

    I relate to having no one who shares your symptoms. Precious few people share mine and I tend to receive more questions then answers. It is what it is. Not especially reassuring at first but once you get past the peculiarities of your pain and soften into the generalities of TMS it gets easier.

    I was reading Schubiner earlier and was reminded how he draws a very clear distinction between TMS and tissue breakdown conditions like cancer. He acknowledges the imput of thoughts and emotions in those more extreme illnesses but doesn't consider them to be mind~body in the same sense as the stuff we deal with here. I tend to agree with him and find it made those concerns lighter to bear.

    Lastly I want to thank you for your kindness regarding my situation. It's all too easy to forget how immensely supportive and encouraging the kind souls here can be, especially if you're not the type of person who easily asks for help or support.

    Here's to a return to full health and well-being and a natural, passionate response to life for us both (no more applying techniques or trying every day).

    Plum x
    readytoheal and Sumol like this.
  10. Sumol

    Sumol New Member

    Yeah, I was surprised when he said, "Don't worry about journaling. There isn't a hidden emotion, this is fear. You need to stop fearing it". He made the problem seem simple and so I started to apologize and he replied, "No, it's fine. If I can help in anyway with a short call, I'll gladly do it." And yet, I'm still here scared of my pain haha.

    Balto's posts just seem so strong. I also resonated with one post about how he felt like ending things, but it was his love for his mom that kept him going. I felt that way last year, but my mom never gave up on me and through it all, HER symptoms of 20 years left. His approach is simple and strong and it worked for him. Having scrolled through the forum for similar symptoms, he was the one person who had the same and healed completely. Most others I see never seem to heal or they don't follow up with their progress. This creates more worry for me because I feel like there is something wrong with my body or nerves.

    My hope is to recover and create a video detailing the pain I had, the tests I did, and how I recovered. Then I would go to all those posts I visited and post the video. This way if anyone has the same issues I did and search the same way I did, they will find that video and have confidence in recovering. It's like SteveOs wall of victory. I think if more people posted videos it would be so helpful to people who are trying to believe in the process.

    I hate shoes too and clothing in general haha, but I dont want to stay that way. I used to like dressing up for stuff. I have good stuff in my life, but I think my main problem is not allowing myself to be happy. Not really sure what prevents me, but I just dont find joy in anything really. I thought of seeing a TMS therapist again, but I feel like i know what I'm suppose to do/practice, but it just doesn't settle. It always feels like I'm doing these things to heal and so my focus goes back to my body. I want to find something I lose myself in or just have so much confidence in TMS I don't fear the pain, but everyone who has TMS wants that.

    It's interesting because I have read of people healing from cancer using the TMS approach. I also hear about things like how you can't throw your back out and there isn't a need to stretch before lifting, but others say the opposite is true.
    plum likes this.
  11. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    This calls to mind the difference between religion and the mystical experience. I'm for the mystical all the way but somewhere along the line I got lost in the minutiae of scripture. You can't find the divine in a book or an idea. I don't think any of this is as mind boggling as it seems. We just need to trust our bodies again.

    I look forward to the day you post the video. That's a gorgeous idea. It's also wonderful to hear that your mom healed. You're blessed to have a good relationship with your mom. My mum is one of my best friends.

    I've come to appreciate how unique healing is for us all. You'll find your way sweetheart. It's only a perceptual shift away.

    (And I'm happy to say I'm feeling much, much better already).

    Plum x
    readytoheal likes this.
  12. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

  13. Time2be

    Time2be Well known member

    Sumol, we all relapse! It's nothing to be afraid or ashamed of. It's annoying, yes. I don't think that human beings ever can be totally pain free. And the same goes for diseases. Of course can a spiritual person be hit by cancer or a heart disease. They are not immune. A very beloved colleague died today of cancer.I cannot imagine anything he did or not did that would make it necessary that he developed a specific and aggressive sort of cancer in the lungs (he never was a smoker!).
    More serious seems to be your religious crisis. Maybe doubt is an integral part of faith? Otherwise faith would be blind or dogmatic.
  14. Time2be

    Time2be Well known member

    And this is to Plum: so sorry to hear about your trouble, seems to be most unpleasant to say the least. I hope the problem will be solved soon! Not to be safe in your own house is a horrible experience. As Ellen says: peace and healing!
    plum likes this.
  15. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    Thank you sweetheart. I really appreciate your kind words and support. Hopefully matters are moving towards a resolution. xxx

    Ellen, it's quite fascinating to revisit Schubiners program especially as I'm no longer possessed of the doubts I held first time through. I'm experiencing less resistance and a much slower, softer exploration prevails.

    Thank you for your loving kindness. xxx
    Ellen likes this.

Share This Page