New to forum- lower back pain/spasms.

That is interesting indeed. Since I heard about TMS I’ve had a lot “ah ha” moments. Whilenthw back pain is the scary one for me I’ve noticed some weird things happen with the symptoms. The moving around, changing, and appearing when I think about the pain has happened. I’ve also become more insightful into my overall history with pain. Have had shin splints plague me when I ran, developed shoulder/bicep pain when I started a pull up/push up routine. Swimming - shoulder and neck soreness, etc. Would get bad leg pain when I would go bowling.
I’m calling bullshit on it now.
About the stomach pain you mentioned, this is a little different but there are these times (seldom but enough) where suddenly my upper abdomen and middle back have a deep ache. I’ve had allergies to food- mostly grown out of those, but that feeling I described almost feels like a sudden allergy thing. I last had this happen about 2 weeks ago. I was completely stressed and angry. Broke my glasses and had a helliva time getting new ones. I was pissed to a point that was almost silly. That feeling occurred then. I started going down the mental road of “is this a heart attack” but I know myself enough to know that was not what was happening. I really can’t think of a medical reason why that would occur. In guessing now it’s stress/TMS.
 
SteveW said:
I’m calling bullshit on it now.
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That’s our ultimate goal. To really see the BS and call it. It is profoundly amazing what the TMS brain is capable of orchestrating. I think the biggest boon to me has been learning on this wiki how very many things TMS creates and each completely hand-crafted to terrorize the recipient. We all need to call bullshit and believe it!!!
 
JanAtheCPA said:
The moment that I thought "OMG I've only done a few of these and when I'm done I really should also steam clean the entire hall and the stairs" my lower back "went out".
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You know, Jan, you mention the modern stressors. But a lot of times, I think the stressor is me thinking of something I SHOULD do. I should on myself constantly. And my brain isn’t having it. I’m my own stressor! Your brain was like, “Nope. We aren’t steam cleaning, lady!”
 
I don't think that the hominids who became homo sapiens had an endless list of non-threatening household chores stressing them out. Their only chores were related to pure physical survival, and they only managed that for a few decades at most.

The point is that our brains are meant to operate in that very simple but dangerous primitive world. The concept of household cleanliness is a purely modern invention, and when we get stressed out over it, our brains respond as if it's a life-or-death threat. This is the neuroscience.
 
JanAtheCPA said:
The concept of household cleanliness is a purely modern invention, and when we get stressed out over it, our brains respond as if it's a life-or-death threat. This is the neuroscience.
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Quotable!!! (And laughable, about poor us!) Sheesh. We need to get life in perspective! :rolleyes:
 
Wanted to give an update on where I’m at in my TMS journey. I had decided to At least for now abandoned SEP. I was finding that I was not feeling much motivation at all to do the journaling and that stuff. That said, I did take a lot from the concepts that I think the SEP Was emphasizing and I’ve been mindful of those since. I’m currently on day 13 of Alan Gordon Recovery program. That is a lot more my speed. I like the content a lot, and frankly wish there was more of it each day. But that said, I think the lessons are kept intentionally short to emphasize the big importance of what is described.
One of the main things I’ve been trying to put into practice is his concept of “outcome independence”. This is very difficult to do, but I’m working at it and it’s probably a heck of a lot better than just being frustrated and nervous about the pain getting worse like I was doing before. I’m not exactly sure where my pain level has been at lately, because it’s been up and down. I will go out on a limb and say that there’s been some improvements in terms of my Willingness to do more than I have been doing physically. Although, the real big test for me is going to be in about a month when I start up doing my firewood again. To me, that’s my marker for how things are going. One thing that is cool I think is that I stopped using regular muscle relaxers about a week or so ago. I had whittle it down gradually, and then one day I was done with them. My thought going forward is that I will use them at times when the pain becomes very pronounced, but not any longer as something that will prevent pain (Like I had been). I wish I could say that the pain/stiffness is much improved, but I’m not there yet. I’m guessing that’ll be more gradual.
Couple of stressors going on is that I have a family vacation coming up with in laws that I’m not looking forward to. Another thing is that I’ve been dealing with more stress with my aging father making some poor decisions. My brother and I are going to be talking with him soon about the concerns we have.
Thanks again all for your help and support!
 
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Hi, Steve! Glad to get an update. Some people gravitate toward Alan’s approach more. I think part of the journey is finding what resonates for you personally. Alan has a new book out called The Way Out. It expands on the class. I’ve been listening to it and trying to post some things I’m learning from it. The book is worth investing in, I personally think. Definitely changing my mind set. https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/what-im-learning-from-the-way-out-by-alan-gordon.28447/ (Book - What I'm learning from "The Way Out" by Alan Gordon)

That’s fantastic you feel strong enough to try and make a go of it without the muscle relaxers. That’s a sign of change. Don’t get discouraged that things aren’t going very fast. It really does take time, and you are making progress even if you can’t see it yet. You are changing your mindset. Here’s a post I just shared yesterday of my first signs of improvement. Maybe there will be something hopeful or useful for you in there. https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/how-i%E2%80%99m-getting-better.28476/ (How I’m getting better)
 
Thank you! I especially like your ideas of not feeling pressure to improve quickly and especially not taking on others problems as your own. That will be a challenge with dealing with my father now. It will be fine line of caring greatly for the guy but also not adopting the consequences of his decisions as my own.
 
I want to give a quick update about how I’ve been doing. Assigned from today, I have to say that I feel like I’ve been making some good progress with all things TMS. This morning, I “finished “ The Allen Gordon program. I realize that, I’ll have to go back and I think reviewing his different daily lessons will be a helpful tool and not something that someone can go through once and be fixed. I’ve been back home for a little bit and I know that My big test was doing some firewood processing. Fortunately, my neighbor belong to tree service has been dropping off Wood steadily, and there was plenty to work with. I found that I was better able to work physically with the firewood and able to do more and not feel the degree of soreness and pain that I would later or even the day later than I normally would, which was an absolute huge development! I worked on the wood for four days consecutively. I made it a point to not do so much that would sort of put my Fight or flight brain into a tailspin, but maybe 50% more than I would’ve done prior to learning about TMS. I still have a bunch more and I look forward to doing that in a few weeks when my schedule will allow that again.
Something has been high interest to me is that I’ve had a very stressful situation going on with my Elderly father. I really would have thought that this situation would have created TMS pain for me, but I do think that it’s had the opposite effect. This way, I think that it has served as sort of a distraction to the pain that I have been having. I will obviously have to find a balance for this because I can’t rely on high stress situations to be a distraction as a long-term solution.
Another thing that I’ve noticed today, which I would describe as a day I’ve had more pain than I have been having is that I’m going to be heading out tomorrow morning for a family vacation that I am not looking forward to at all. I’ve definitely been dreading it, and I feel like these sort of situations in general, definitely spike the anxiety. Almost “on schedule” I’ve noticed today that they’ve had several times where my lower back has felt like it could almost “go out”. I’ve been relegating the brief concern I have with that to Alan Gordon’ s “ Outcome independence” and telling myself that I sort of don’t give a shit what the pain does. Throughout the day today, the pain has been sporadic, So I suppose I will just keep on going with that mindset of “who gives a shit?” I will say, though, and with the spirit of TMS acting as TMS does, the timing of this pain is almost stupidly predictable. I would say in the last couple weeks, my use of muscle relaxers has decreased significantly, although I have been using them in the last 24 hours to sort of get me through the hump of the stress/pain Symptoms Associated with the day of travel, we’ve got to do to get to the family vacation.
Again, really appreciate all the support that you guys have provided here to me. It is really helpful to be able to get my thoughts out on paper and to get the feedback that you’ve given me.!
 
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Nice update, @SteveW, and such a good illustration of the ups, the downs, and the back and forth that comes not just as we're actively "doing the work" but, you know, just in everyday life. Acknowledging and accepting this is a huge step on the journey.
SteveW said:
reviewing his different daily lessons will be a helpful tool and not something that someone can go through once and be fixed.
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This is 100% the right outlook.

SteveW said:
I think that it has served as sort of a distraction to the pain that I have been having. I will obviously have to find a balance for this because I can’t rely on high stress situations to be a distraction as a long-term solution.
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Excellent insight! It reminds me of the same insight I had when I was doing the work initially in 2011. My marriage of 23 years had ended a couple of years prior, and a year later my lifelong mild TMS started to build up with multiple worsening symptoms, leading me on a downward spiral that was threatening to leave me housebound. There was an assumption by others that my suffering was due to the divorce, but that didn't feel right to me. Stumbling on Dr Sarno saved me just in time.

My lightbulb moment occurred after reading The Divided Mind, when I saw that the dysfunctional marriage had been enough to distract me from my real trigger, which was aging and mortality as I approached age 60. Ironically, at the time I was quite aware that I was approaching 60 attached to someone that I didn't want to grow old with. What I was unaware of was that the growing old itself was the primary trigger, and when I got rid of the first distraction, my poor TMS brain had to come up with the physical symptoms in order to maintain the repression.

Now at age 73, it's not that I'm any more in love with the idea of aging and mortality than I was 13 years ago - because it sure as shit doesn't get easier. The difference is that I have no problem acknowledging and accepting those thoughts when they threaten to engage the old stress/fear response.
 
JanAtheCPA said:
Nice update, @SteveW, and such a good illustration of the ups, the downs, and the back and forth that comes not just as we're actively "doing the work" but, you know, just in everyday life. Acknowledging and accepting this is a huge step on the journey.

This is 100% the right outlook.


Excellent insight! It reminds me of the same insight I had when I was doing the work initially in 2011. My marriage of 23 years had ended a couple of years prior, and a year later my lifelong mild TMS started to build up with multiple worsening symptoms, leading me on a downward spiral that was threatening to leave me housebound. There was an assumption by others that my suffering was due to the divorce, but that didn't feel right to me. Stumbling on Dr Sarno saved me just in time.

My lightbulb moment occurred after reading The Divided Mind, when I saw that the dysfunctional marriage had been enough to distract me from my real trigger, which was aging and mortality as I approached age 60. Ironically, at the time I was quite aware that I was approaching 60 attached to someone that I didn't want to grow old with. What I was unaware of was that the growing old itself was the primary trigger, and when I got rid of the first distraction, my poor TMS brain had to come up with the physical symptoms in order to maintain the repression.

Now at age 73, it's not that I'm any more in love with the idea of aging and mortality than I was 13 years ago - because it sure as shit doesn't get easier. The difference is that I have no problem acknowledging and accepting those thoughts when they threaten to engage the old stress/fear response.
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It’s very interesting the things that people get triggered by. You’d think that divorce, even if was a positive change would be the stressor but it wasn’t.
I would have figured that the stress related to my father would have been the thing, but it appears that the thought of hanging with my in-laws for 4 days straight makes me more stressed in the TMS world.
 
Diana-M said:
Vacationing with in-laws is reaaaaaaallyyyy hard!!! Treat yourself kindly.
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I often get some pain in my right upper butt cheek/hip area. Been a bit better lately but wouldn’t you know it acting up during the travel/driving day today. Fitting bc this trip is going to be a pain the ass, lol
 
SteveW said:
I often get some pain in my right upper butt cheek/hip area. Been a bit better lately but wouldn’t you know it acting up during the travel/driving day today. Fitting bc this trip is going to be a pain the ass, lol
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Don’t underestimate the significance! Lol
 
JanAtheCPA said:
My lightbulb moment occurred after reading The Divided Mind, when I saw that the dysfunctional marriage had been enough to distract me from my real trigger, which was aging and mortality as I approached age 60. Ironically, at the time I was quite aware that I was approaching 60 attached to someone that I didn't want to grow old with. What I was unaware of was that the growing old itself was the primary trigger,
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Wow, Jan! This is an amazing tale. It really shows that we can’t often know the triggers right off the bat. Aging is a big one.
 
Diana-M said:
Aging is a big one.
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This is why I love the theory and practice of Existential Psychotherapy so much.

Isolation
Freedom
Meaning
Mortality

So simple to remember, and not at all difficult for anyone to employ on their own behalf, particularly if they already have the skill of self reflection (via expressive writing, aka journaling or JournalSpeak or writing shit down) in their toolkit.
 
I want to give an update on how the TMS has been going. This may take on the form of journaling, so forgive me already if this goes a little long.
I made it through the family vacation. It was about what I figured it would be. Nothing general stressful about it aside from all the travel, but one of the things about vacations like that is that I’m just not a big fan of hanging out with people outside of my immediate family for days on end. Like at some point, I tend to feel stress about the whole thing.
One of the big stresses in my life has focused on health anxiety. My father had two strokes at a relatively younger age, and I know myself I have Vein insufficiency, which, from what I understand puts me at a slightly higher risk of stroke . I had a lot of anxiety About developing DVT In relation relation to it, and with the history of stroke in my family. I’ve had checked out a number of false alarms. Anyway, I noticed that I started getting some tightness in my thigh area of the leg that normally feels some discomfort because of the existing Vein insufficiency. Messaged my doctor, and we talked it over and are currently treating it as a muscular, although I had been on a longer car ride the day before it started, and I think that was playing in my head ( I.e. I thought about the concept of DVT literally while driving) . Honestly, I know when I get out of the car for a long ride I feel like someone literally beat me up physically, so I wonder if that could be it and part anyway. Anyway, in the message, my doctor sent me back, she mentioned that it also could be related to my SI joint And history of back and hip stiffness. I mention that in part because mentally I think it’s sort of brought me back to the physical versus the psychological mindset ive been trying to have with this TMS stuff.
Another Significant thing that happened was today was the day that I decided to make a report of suspected elder exploitation for my father. He’s been head over heels about this new person he’s seeing, and This person is completely shady. Anyway, so definitely a lot of stress there.
And…… Wouldn’t you know it… But a short time after that I got a couple of good twinges in my middle to lower back which historically have been pretty frightening, and that they often lead to Much worse pain/spasms. I will say, though, that my attitude towards the sensations is different than it was before, where I’m taking the attitude of, “Who cares”. And if the pain wants to get worse, so be it. We’ll see I suppose.
Another big thing that I learned today is the importance of not talking about the pain with people not well-versed in TMS stuff. At least with people who aren’t currently in the TMS world. I say this because after I got that first twinge, I decided to continue my plan of going “aqua jogging”, Which is basically a floaty belt thing in mimic jogging just in the water. I did that for A little under half a mile today. Although I was thinking about not saying anything to my wife about it, I decided to mention how I did have some back twinges before and actually during my jogging and I mentioned that, true to TMS, With the stress of stuff today, I developed some back pain . My wife said almost as if not missing a “ Right, but I also think it’s also that you haven’t really exercise much in the last two weeks”. In that moment, it hit me, it makes absolutely no sense to really ever talk with someone outside the TMS world about paying or the whole process in general, there’s just no benefit to it at the end of the day.
 
Hi Steve,

Glad you made it through your vacation! It is a drain for me too, to be nonstop around people. I also agree with being careful who you talk symptoms to. A. They can dismantle your security in TMS theory and B. It just makes you feel worse.

It does sound with the vein thing, you’re having to think more about your health anxiety— and that may be legit. But be careful not to dwell in catastrophe land. That will just shoot your anxiety through the roof and make your symptoms worse.

Sounds like you got some good journaling topics to choose from!
 
I have a “Is this TMS?” question. I’ve noticed overtime both of my shoulder/top of bicep part of arm area become quite sore at times when I’m doing exercise with them. I’m not talking about incredibly intense physical activity but like a reasonable exercise routine. . At one point, I noticed that I had some significant shoulder soreness when I would throw a football around with the kids at school. And then noticed that after I started a push-up and chin up routine, which I would do every other day, involved that shoulder getting even more sore. Overtime that shoulder appeared to get better, but then I noticed that doing some lights swimming cause the other shoulder to get sore in that same area of the other arm. I’m not talking about the normal soreness you would get after a good workout, but the kind of soreness that feels like something is “pulled”. Anyway, I haven’t done much in the way of working out my arms in quite some time and haven’t noticed anything in terms of pain. During this summer, I’ve been doing aqua-jogging probably every other day For about half an hour. The activity is exactly as it sounds like, you’re basically jogging in the water. I suppose there is some resistance from the water with your arms, moving back-and-forth, but certainly not a lot. It wouldn’t seem. I’ve noticed that both of my shoulders have that familiar discomfort. While I say shoulder, it really does feel like The area about 3 inches down my arm from my shoulder bone. At one point, I had PT for this and the guy said it was “referred pain”, After I told him that I wasn’t experiencing it in my shoulder per se, but rather a few inches down. He stated that it was the shoulder itself.
Anyhow, I will do some of the generic exercises to try to make these feel better, but I’m wondering if this could be a TMS response. I say this because I seem to have a history of developing “overuse” type injuries when the activitites are not all that crazy, shin splints and the like .Please let me know what you all think, and thank you again!
 
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