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Muscles of TMS

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by blackdog, Aug 22, 2014.

  1. blackdog

    blackdog Peer Supporter

    One more question,

    I saw an excerpt from Sarno's Healing Back Pain in which he sated "The only muscles in the body that are susceptible to TMS are those in the back of the neck, the entire back, and the buttocks, known collectively as postural muscles." I read The Divided Mind instead and don't remember anything like that. Did he change his position on this as his career progressed? If not, how does he account for pain ranging from the feet to the eyes (I basically have it throughout my entire body)? Thanks again,

  2. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes blackdog he added new symptoms as time went by, look in the back index of "Healing Back Pain" and then look in the back index of the "MindBody Prescription".
    You will see a lot of places that you probably didn't even know pain could be. I believe it was in The Divided Mind that Dr. Sarno said he wouldn't have enough time or room in his books to put in all the symptoms that tms can cause.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
  3. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Belief is the only thing that will free you, in only one form, not from many. However, due to perception/ego/fear, it shifts forms according to our current need.

    Doubt in truth, is the constraint that binds you, and that you suffer by; through the mechanisms of ego and/or repression. Resistance is a natural progression toward truth because it provides time to reflect, dripping out, as opposed to drowning us.

    When you eventually stop trying to parse light into packets of information, and allow it to simply enter you, you will heal. Some people see truth, accept it, and heal. Others dissect it for the very reasons that Dr. Sarno described--"as a protective mechanism." The truth is more painful to some, than to others; that's where compassion enters.

    The good doctor is a brilliant man, not only in his thirst for truth, but in the way he phrased himself. He was very careful in the words he chose, and was well-aware of the impact of each word. I had this conversation with him on the wording of his endorsement of me in April, 2012. He knew what he was saying when he said it. He loves the arts, history, music, philosophy, language, and people.

    He's well-aware of the impact of each word, but like all writers, he can't control the interpretation. There isn't a word out there that can replace a feeling in the heart, or the meaning behind its intent. But better writers can tug on the heart-strings.

    He also knew that TMS was evolving quickly. It's his baby--a concept that he fathered, nurtured and fed, as it grew through the painful birth-years. He learned through those years that TMS was more than pain, and more than postural muscles. So when he used the word "susceptible" in HBP, that was the correct word. It simply means "likely" or most "vulnerable" to attack.

    If you want to heal, don't parse the words. I did that too, and it prolonged my conflict. Open yourself and allow it. I'm a witness to healing almost every day, but I can't make people heal. Sometimes they choose the longer road by trying everything except TMS healing. I saw a thread here about The Presence Process, that had many hits. Why would anyone want to go that far to freedom? I suppose it's the same reason that the concept of "time" is necessary. People are overwhelmed and prefer linear-steps to growth. It's normal and natural, not a fault, or weakness. I've never met anyone that needed The Presence Process to heal. But I'm sure someone out there liked it and swears by it.

    We all learn differently. Some need more to understand, and others need less, but I still believe it has to do with the need to be heard. We all need attention, it's the deepest need... gone the most unfilled. If we can't get it one way, we'll find another way to connect, or another, or another. It's all about connecting! When we aren't connected we suffer.

    We grow in our own time, according to the depth of our fear, which is a byproduct of our own separation-experiences. It's not genetic, it's universal. We're all working through different levels of consciousness. It's up to everyone to help people to see themselves, in themselves, through "ourselves." It's the only way to live a good life. Helping.

    Where light wants to freely expand, there will always be darkness trying to shadow it. The controversy then arises, as to what is true and what wants to be seen as true? So language is important. Language is the beginning of all action, whether it's internal or external. Thus is a conflicted life... in the desire to understand the differences, instead of simply accepting what is. It's nurtured by a mind divided.
    Zumbafan and angelic333 like this.
  4. blackdog

    blackdog Peer Supporter

    Thank you guys for responding. Herbie I really appreciate your presence in the discussion group call-in. It is easy to see that you have a compassionate heart. And Steve, of course your writing is so enlightening. It takes me awhile to digest it because, although it resonates with my deeper felt self, my mind has a hard time letting it get through. I have lived a life inhabited almost solely in my mind as a self-protective mechanism. It is no wonder that I have so much pain and find myself in the situation that I do. On the other hand, it would seem that this work has found me at the time in my life when I am finally starting to believe that there is goodness and peace to be found (it is still easier to see outside than inside myself). My mind is still so strong, though, as I sometimes see that there is a huge gulf of fear that I need to cross in order to accept presence and light (and I am sure the immense grief under that fear is pushing me back as well). Perhaps it is certain personality types such as mine that benefit from something like The Presence Process? For us mind-absorbed types, would not TPP allow for a more direct and accessible way to spot our aversion to emotions and therefore alter the process of "parsing light into packets of information?" (I like that phrase a lot!) I know that my mind, although active, also seems very "foggy" and I fear that this inhibits my ability to identify it with enough clarity to accept it and go beyond it. What was your "method" or way Steve of distinguishing what is true from what wants to be true (ego)? (Most of my thought remains an undercurrent that flows along without my conscious knowledge of it). Is most of this work a process of learning to become more comfortable with conflict after it has been identified, rather than an attempt to rid oneself of a divided mind?
    It is hard for me to give up parsing words, as the course of my symptoms occurred from a complicated experience of two accidents in which I was diagnosed with a MTBI centered around an experience of marijuana reigniting the symptoms after they had died down (and smoking also abruptly cut off an extended period of seeing increasing spots tingling behind my eyes which I had felt was a healing process). To hear that my head/brain may have been damaged in some way makes me feel queasy and squirmy inside. On the other hand, I think that is a very convenient term they throw out to people when they have no idea what is really going on with them. I have no cognitive impairments, but do have a constant visual disturbance and tightness in my head that serves to reinforce my anxiety continuously. I have had it cleared medically through vision therapy, but none of the TMS therapists I have spoken with have worked with anyone with this and the TMS doc said he thought it was most likely TMS (not as definitive as I would have liked). This makes it very difficult not to parse words, which is basically an OCD level tendency of mine to begin with. I feel like I am complaining when I write this, but that is, I hope, not my intention. I do feel that the symptoms make a kind of symbolic sense for me, as I have always looked so hard for meaning and purpose but could not find it. This has been a hugely disturbing part of my life and it would make sense that now my sight is disturbed following an accident and subsequent reinforcement. And I have less doubt or fear that many other issues are likely TMS, as I fit the bill very closely and the symptoms and patterns are more traditionally TMS. It's just that the worst one is more tricky.
    The depth of my fear is huge, my life is upside down (i.e. I do not feel like I can work yet don't have income, just lost my girlfriend of 11 years, don't know where I will live, blah blah blah) and I am concerned with the remaining stubborn power of my brain. If my life were more stable would that allow for greater or faster healing? Probably that is just a self-imposed anxiety producer. It is difficult not to feel on a timetable, though, with the work situation. But, I would feel on one regardless. Perhaps letting go of my preoccupation with money is something the universe requires of me. I aspire to what you wrote Steve and know that fear of not connecting is a huge part of my issue. I yearn for it, yet tend to be socially withdrawn and feel awkward. It seems so very difficult to balance a healthy need to connect with the need to be heard when I feel so out of control (or any other time really). How does one ultimately give up the need to hurt themselves and become more self-compassionate? And is this need for hurt located only in the mind or are there some whose hearts are in it too? You have written Steve, "...anyone can heal if that is what they unconsciously desire." Wouldn't everyone want that or are there some who don't? Do they deep inside, but they aren't ready to face the pain? How does one know if they are ready? What, ultimately, is truth? How does one find the balance between letting resistance do its work and holding onto it too long?


  5. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    For a fuller listing of TMS equivalents, Andrew, see the Appendix in the back of Steve's book, The Great Pain Deception. Because of symptom substitution, TMS can manifest and morph into so many other conditions and syndromes that the list becomes nearly endless. Same psychological process involving repressed emotions though. Last week, a friend of mine drove up to my campsite in Lee Vining Canyon, leaving his demanding job and second wife far behind in L.A. First day he was fine. After going climbing and starting to have a good time vacation though, he suddenly came down with an attack of gout in his foot that became so painful he couldn't walk. Suddenly, he had to take off to Sparks, Nevada a hundred miles away to check on the contents of a storage bin he had up there from the time his first wife served him with divorce papers. When he returned after completing his secret errand (what was in the storage box?), suddenly he was pain-free and could walk again. Sure sounded like TMS fired by guilt over leaving his second wife and job behind. In any case, you see how pervasive the unconscious TMS process is? The mechanism of repressed emotions and guilt can result in many symptoms and otherwise inexplicable behavior. Once you understand that, you won't be suckered into taking the pulse of your symptoms every 15 seconds.
  6. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    It sounds like emotional stress to me, and Sarno says that causes a lot of TMS.
    Andrew, your friend was undergoing some heavy stress with leaving a demanding job and second wife.
    Guilt probably was also part of it. And a trigger to the divorce of the first wife was set off when he looked
    into the storage box. I hope he can just put all the negative thoughts out of his mind and enjoy his life.
  7. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    It was me (Bruce) not Andrew who witnessed this TMS-gout attack last week, Walter, but your observations correlate with mine exactly! However, I don't think my friend is going to pull out of his negative spin easily. He had a half-gallon of Jim Beam whiskey hidden in a cooler in the back of his truck that I realize now he was attacking in secret when he thought I wasn't around or noticing the charade. Again: drugs and alcohol as a way to sooth or diminish unbearable unconscious emotions.

    It is interesting though Walt how once you've caught on to the TMS secret inside yourself how easy it is to recognize how TMS operates in other people around you! Enlightenment is like that. I immediately caught on to my friend's excuses that he had to get up to go to the bathroom when what he was really doing was hitting that JB in the cooler in the back of his truck when he began to suffer from insomnia in the wee dawn hours alone in his tent. He tried to go to the mountains to escape his guilt but it followed him inside his head into a beautiful outdoor environment. I'm sure that secret whiskey sipping didn't help his gout either! That's where mind and body really do meld, where physical actions reinforce psychological conditions.

    Even more interesting too how when I suggested that my friend's gout was caused by underlying repressed emotional conditions that he instantly became angry and defensive and described the uric acid crystals growing in his foot. Again: The structural diagnosis as an evasion and excuse. I just kept pointing out that there was some other process driving the formation of those crystals that he had better attend to. Then, when I went off to breakfast one morning I returned to camp to find he's just taken down his tent and cleared out without a word. "Go, go, go, said the bird. Leave the first room. Mankind can only bear so much reality" - to crudely paraphrase T.S. Eliot in the Four Quartets.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  8. blackdog

    blackdog Peer Supporter

    Is TMS sometimes not so much of a symptom substitution pattern as an onward march of additional symptoms across a lifespan? My symptoms will stay in one place for awhile (often weeks or months) and then go to another, but it follows a typical pattern to some degree. As my life goes on, though, I have more and more symptoms. Are there times when symptoms of TMS are constant and do not really go away until they are uncovered?
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  9. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people out there than myself, but it's my general impression that 'classical' TMS involves reduced oxygen (ischemia) to nerves, tendons and muscles, typically in the lower back, hip and leg and often in the shoulder, resulting in soreness, stiffness and weakness. Sometimes during a massive back attack there is acute pain. However, there are many other symptomatologies and syndromes that are intensified, some would even say caused by repressed emotions, such as asthma, allergies, GERD, IBS and autoimmune disorders like lupus, rheumatoid arthritis and ALS. The one common denominator lurking behind all of these so-called illnesses it seems to me is repressed emotionality and emotionally repressive coping styles.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  10. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    blackdog learning to be at peace with who you are is very important, so you have some things to work on, don't we all. Learn to love who you are the way you are but watch the reactions that cause you stress and all those times you beat yourself up in your own mind cause something didn't go right, well lighten up there. If you can get out and get some sun rays, breath the fresh air in and call up some old friends you havent spoke to in a while, love life with as much gratitude as you can muster each day. Don't be afraid to make mistakes and do some deep breathing till you feel jiggly. Learn some new mind games and challenge folks across the world to beat you at them, make connections -- let lose -- don't hold so tight to your muscles and do everything in flow. Take up some mindfulness meditation and practice affirmations. Then read back over Sarnos books and do it with patience and faith.
    See by doing most of these above you won't be repressing anything, repressing is when you feel to do something but you never do so it gets repressed, or when you get hurt because someone hurt you or said something mean to you and you tried to get it off your mind by thinking of something else, there still something there bothering you yes but if you don't take the time to feed the inner child with happiness and good times then the next thing to add to the reservoir of rage will be your super ego and id battling it out over your peace and structure causing more tension. Which is probably already happening, main idea, smile, lighten up and practice peaceful thoughts of detachment, you will do great in time. The lessons are being conditioned as you study, take it easy, bless you.
    PS. This is a great post with My friend Bruce talking about some great advice, keep it up, don't let me stop you two. Just don't forget the basics ok, thanks.
  11. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Such good advice, Herbie. I envy the way you can cut to the heart of the matter without introducing a bunch of theory. Reconnect with old friends. That's some very good advice. Instantly gets you out of your self-centered rut and preoccupation with your own symptoms. Cuts right to the heart of the issue. Yes.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  12. tarala

    tarala Well known member

    Hi Blackdog, I'm sure I can't possibly improve on all the good advice above. I have been doing the Presence Process, however, and am also a totally mental sort of person. It was rather enlightening when Alan Gordon pointed out somewhere that "knowing" what you are feeling and actually feeling it are two different things. I've found TPP to be super helpful for this, and have been able to release a lot of emotion doing the process. A few people on the forum have been doing it so there are a couple of threads if you're interested.
    BruceMC likes this.
  13. blackdog

    blackdog Peer Supporter

    Thank you everyone for your support. I also appreciate your down-to-earth style of communicating compassion to others Herbie. I really liked your phrase "don't hold so tight to your muscles and do everything in flow." Flow is something that I aspire to, perhaps what I would like the most to have in life. I do hold to my muscles, though, so that is a pointer or reminder to me that I am not in flow in my life. Probably learning to discern this tension will be extremely helpful in allowing me to tell when I am straying farther and farther from flow. I sometimes tell people that I feel like a newborn in that I am just awakening to the possibility that life can be lived in a state of appreciation and recognition of goodness rather than despair, fear and the cynicism that results as a protective factor. I have been working for a long time to get here, but have a lot yet to learn. I am hoping that my learning will grow exponentially, as I have finally found some manner of trust and can see more clearly that my heart wants to be alive. I aim to step out of my emotionally repressive coping style that I have utilized throughout my teenage and adult life. Peace,
    BruceMC and Eric "Herbie" Watson like this.

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