it's my lack of results that's making me doubt

eskimoeskimo

eskimoeskimo

Well known member
I feel like I was pretty strongly on board with the TMS diagnosis when I first encountered it, 3 years ago or more. It's my lack of success that's made my doubt in the diagnosis grow. I've digested tms info consistently all along, in attempt to help it 'seep' in, but I've made no progress whatsoever. What to do?

Thanks,
Eskimo
 
Awfully close to giving up... I haven't gotten anywhere. After all this time, either the diagnosis is wrong, or I'm not following the treatment properly. But, I've run out of ways to attempt the treatment any differently.
 
Huckleberry said:
When you say 'pretty strongly on board' with the TMS diagnosis, what does that mean?
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When I first read the books, it made sense to me, I felt a little better, I felt like TMS described my symptoms and syndrome better than any of the multiple of physical explanations I'd previously had. I think that I still feel that way, but it's become so much harder to subscribe to this theory when I'm in as much or more pain now than ever before.
 
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I have been aware of TMS for at least 6 years and during this period I have had various degrees of conviction that this is what is responsible for my pain. I often get frustrated that nothing seems to work for me and that my pain must therefore be structural but then when I'm honest with myself I do see that whilst I've known about TMS for so long very often I've just really dabbled round the edges with it and have not gone at the treatment protocol with either conviction or consistency. I don't know if this is relevant to you of course but am only mentioning it as I don't necessarily think that the amount of time we have been aware of the concept is that important.
 
Huckleberry said:
I have been aware of TMS for at least 6 years and during this period I have had various degrees of conviction that this is what is responsible for my pain. I often get frustrated that nothing seems to work for me and that my pain must therefore be structural but then when I'm honest with myself I do see that whilst I've known about TMS for so long very often I've just really dabbled round the edges with it and have not gone at the treatment protocol with either conviction or consistency. I don't know if this is relevant to you of course but am only mentioning it as I don't necessarily think that the amount of time we have been aware of the concept is that important.
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I hear ya. I'm just not sure what I can do to commit more fully or induce greater conviction. I've read the books so many times, journaled, done the programs, talked to a TMS therapist weekly for a year or more.
 
I like the attitude that Monte Hueftle puts out there...he stated that he only ever read one TMS book and is quite scornful of forums and the like, the reason for this is that it is so easy to get drawn into the TMS'ing about TMS trap. I also visited a TMS therapist a few times but it dawned on me its a ridiculous thing to do, what more can they tell me...I was paying £40 to hear the same thing over and over, same with the books really I know people will say its good to reread Sarno or read all the new books that come out but what more can be said by anybody?

I have recently taken the attitude that getting so caught up in the whole TMS process just doesn't do me any favours and just causes more stress, anxiety, frustration and maybe even pain. Out of interest have you looked at Monte's approach? It may resonate with you.
 
TMS can be a bitch to get over.

If you've seen a TMS therapist for a year and nothing is changing, it could be the therapist. There are lots of therapists out there who aren't good. Or it may just be the wrong therapist for you. I was strung along for many years by a therapist that I trusted, who turned out to be wasting my time and money.

Don't be intimidated by your therapist, and don't be afraid to leave and try someone else. I know how hard that can be, but it may be necessary.

At very least, you should have a pointed discussion with him/her about your progress.
 
Just to clarify, when I mentioned about visiting a TMS therapist I wasn't referring to counselling so much but more to try and help me make the TMS/non structural diagnosis stick.

I have also had the same doubts that my pain isn't structural as it hasn't really improved and I actually realised I was getting so hung up on the TMS v structural doubts that in reality I hadn't moved forward in those years. I know Sarno was adamant that we must believe our pain isn't structural to recover but I'm not so sure that is correct...I've spoken to people who have recovered from chronic pain conditions who have no inkling of the concept of TMS but have turned it around by eliminating fear of the symptoms and importantly by stopping the future projection. This was pretty illuminating for me as I had a lightbulb moment that saw me realise that I had been thinking that 'if' my pain was structural then it would only get worse etc etc...I now know this to be false. I think that maybe believing wholeheartedly that our pain is psychological this then automatically helps reduce the fear and allows us to picture recovery.

I don't know if any of this makes sense to you or helps you in anyway but your situation sounds somewhat similar to mine and I have found this reframing has helped me. I read on here recently someone referring to TMS as a volume control for pain which made a great deal of sense to me. Basically I was applying black and white and all or nothing thinking to the very process that I was hoping would cure me. Talk about not being able to solve problems on the same level of thinking that created them.
 
David88 said:
Don't be intimidated by your therapist, and don't be afraid to leave and try someone else. I know how hard that can be, but it may be necessary.
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Hi David,

I've actually stopped seeing that therapist because I wasn't satisfied with the progress (being non-existant). I have yet to sign up with anybody new, due to finances and to my lack of success with therapists in the past (including pre-TMS for anxiety and depression / OCD). But, it may be time to investigate this again.

Thanks
 
Huckleberry said:
Just to clarify, when I mentioned about visiting a TMS therapist I wasn't referring to counselling so much but more to try and help me make the TMS/non structural diagnosis stick.

I have also had the same doubts that my pain isn't structural as it hasn't really improved and I actually realised I was getting so hung up on the TMS v structural doubts that in reality I hadn't moved forward in those years. I know Sarno was adamant that we must believe our pain isn't structural to recover but I'm not so sure that is correct...I've spoken to people who have recovered from chronic pain conditions who have no inkling of the concept of TMS but have turned it around by eliminating fear of the symptoms and importantly by stopping the future projection. This was pretty illuminating for me as I had a lightbulb moment that saw me realise that I had been thinking that 'if' my pain was structural then it would only get worse etc etc...I now know this to be false. I think that maybe believing wholeheartedly that our pain is psychological this then automatically helps reduce the fear and allows us to picture recovery.

I don't know if any of this makes sense to you or helps you in anyway but your situation sounds somewhat similar to mine and I have found this reframing has helped me. I read on here recently someone referring to TMS as a volume control for pain which made a great deal of sense to me. Basically I was applying black and white and all or nothing thinking to the very process that I was hoping would cure me. Talk about not being able to solve problems on the same level of thinking that created them.
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Thanks Huckleberry. Looking into Monte now. I think where I'm at - although, to be clear, I'm really disoriented and confused regarding TMS at this point - is that I'm quite confident that my pain is due to psychological processes (not always 100% but I think I'm pretty good on this, sometimes even 100ish)... and it helps that essentially everyone else in my life thinks that this is obvious. BUT, I'm not at all convinced that this means that I can get better. Even if it is psychological, I feel like I'm stuck with this pain forever. I think my sub-conscious is convinced that people just don't get better from chronic pain... that the neural network is so well trodden that it's there for good. Somehow the success stories on here haven't made me believe. I feel like I'm trying to unlearn riding a bicycle, and c'mon: can you?

E
 
Thats interesting Eskimo...that reads almost as if recovering from a structural problem that causes pain may actually be easier than recovering from TMS pain. I'd never actually considered that.

I think you can break into those neural pathways...the whole idea of neuroplasticity is so well documented now and its is being proved in so many areas. I think that is why probably not just accepting that the pain is benign is enough...you have to overwrite those pain pathways and this obviously requires dedication and consistency. Monte Hueftle is very much an adherent of this.
 
Huckleberry said:
Thats interesting Eskimo...that reads almost as if recovering from a structural problem that causes pain may actually be easier than recovering from TMS pain. I'd never actually considered that.

I think you can break into those neural pathways...the whole idea of neuroplasticity is so well documented now and its is being proved in so many areas. I think that is why probably not just accepting that the pain is benign is enough...you have to overwrite those pain pathways and this obviously requires dedication and consistency. Monte Hueftle is very much an adherent of this.
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Ah, you've made me realize something there when you said "the pain is benign enough." I'm more concerned with the way that having chronic pain is affecting my personality, my mood, and my brain. I'm much more worried that chronic pain is going to turn my brain into mush than I am worried that it's going to put me in a wheelchair or something physical like that. So, regardless of the explanation for the pain, having it never feels safe.
 
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Huckleberry said:
Thats interesting Eskimo...that reads almost as if recovering from a structural problem that causes pain may actually be easier than recovering from TMS pain. I'd never actually considered that.
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Huckleberry -- Absolutely, a structural problem can be easier to recover from. The body heals itself. The mind can hold on to anger forever.
 
eskimoeskimo said:
I have yet to sign up with anybody new, due to finances and to my lack of success with therapists in the past (including pre-TMS for anxiety and Depression / OCD).
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Eskimo -- yes, I've had the same frustrating experiences with therapists who didn't help. I finally found one who is helping. It's a personal thing, finding the right therapist. Your personalities have to work together, and he/she has to find an approach that works for you. Keep at it, don't be discouraged.

I think that belief in the diagnosis, while important, doesn't always come first. Sometimes you don't really believe until you feel better.

Try to turn you attention away from the symptoms, and whether you believe, and your worries about recovery, and toward your feelings. What else is going on in your life that needs attention? What would you be feeling if you weren't preoccupied? Something in your world is out of balance.

If you can get to the underlying feelings, you'll start to feel better, whether you have confidence in TMS or not.
 
David88 said:
What would you be feeling if you weren't preoccupied?
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Thanks again David. I like the above point. I haven't seen it phrased quite this way before. I'm going to use that lens. I do feel like there's a long list of things I'm preoccupied with besides TMS... real problems like insecurity, money, loneliness. And I've journaled on these. But I'll keep diving in. Maybe there's something I haven't hit on yet.
 
Since you're not sure it's TMS and may be structural, can you see a TMS physician for an objective DX?

Have you looked at the Rahe-Holmes list to identify events that caused your TMS?


Dr. Sarno theorized that TMS is a PROTECTOR, a defense mechanism, to protect the psyche from emotional pain that the unconscious has decided is more painful then the structural symptom. Perhaps you need to thank your unconscious for this favor--for the time being.
 
Tennis Tom said:
Since you're not sure it's TMS and may be structural, can you see a TMS physician for an objective DX?

Have you looked at the Rahe-Holmes list to identify events that caused your TMS?


Dr. Sarno theorized that TMS is a PROTECTOR, a defense mechanism, to protect the psyche from emotional pain that the unconscious has decided is more painful then the structural symptom. Perhaps you need to thank your unconscious for this favor--for the time being.
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Not sure if that question was directed to the OP or to me TT but it's interesting as I always thought getting a TMS dx from an TMS physician would help me accept it but this was never the case. I just came to the conclusion that whilst a traditional doctor would dx structural and a chiropractor would dx a leg length discrepancy then a TMS physician would by their nature dx TMS. After all, if you go to a hairdresser you get a haircut. ;)
 
"If you can get to the underlying feelings, you'll start to feel better, whether you have confidence in TMS or not"
@Huckleberry so so true.

Interesting thoughts about a TMS Dr making the comparison that you do as I would like to believe that a TMS doctors purpose is to tell you whether or not it truly is TMS or structural which is what sets him apart from a regular doctor. His thought process should be more broad than just seeing structural as a regular doctor would and yet certainly not tell you TMS when indeed you have a physical problem.
 
Huckleberry said:
... I just came to the conclusion that whilst a traditional doctor would dx structural and a chiropractor would dx a leg length discrepancy then a TMS physician would by their nature dx TMS.
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No, I've been to two TMS doctors and they both told me my issue was structural and NOT TMS based on my x-rays and MRI's. TMS doctors are on a higher plain then your average physician, because they understand the very powerful role of the mind in causing dis-ease. This is because most or all of them had chronic pain and the medical texts did not give them answers to their own chronic pain. Many of them saw Dr. Sarno for their enlightenment. I would trust a TMS physician for an objective opinion, and if they told me I had TMS, I would accept their opinion and do a 10K out of the parking lot.
 
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