Ignoring 3 doctors recommendations for nerve ablations?

Kerrj74

Kerrj74

Well known member
Hi folks. For the past few months I have been committed to the TMS diagnosis and have been doing everything- reading and listening to every book, video, CD, Curable app, exercise, mediation, programs like Dr. Schubiner’s, etc. I use daily journaling and self talk and professional psychotherapy to get at my deep emotions and rage/fear. I dont have any traumatic events in my past. Just a perfectionist with all the TMS personality traits. Despite months of doing everything I am supposed to be doing for TMS, I never improve even the slightest bit. Then I was at my doc yesterday for a normal checkup and he asked about my back. I told him and he was like, “You know, 3 spine and pain doctors told you that you need to have facet joint nerve ablations to get rid of your pain. If you dont listen to them, you will never get rid of the pain.”. I was so upset. I try not to listen to the docs, but then this really shook my confidence that I have TMS. This made me start to wonder... may be if I haven’t shown ANY improvement in the pain despite all the things I am supposed to be doing for TMS, then may be they are right? May be my pain is different? Why else would this have no impact whatsoever. May be burning the nerves will give me some relief? I am really desperate for pain relief. Thoughts???
 
I hope you're able to get in contact with a TMS doctor! That will really help I think. Nerve ablations don't work for TMS because the TMS will just shift to another area. Of course a primary care doctor would tell you to listen to the spine specialists, they wouldn't know anything about TMS and this would be their only conclusion they would be able to draw. I highly recommend visiting a TMS practitioner if you don't want to go down the "conventional" route to help your confidence in the diagnosis.
 
MindBodyPT said:
I hope you're able to get in contact with a TMS doctor! That will really help I think. Nerve ablations don't work for TMS because the TMS will just shift to another area. Of course a primary care doctor would tell you to listen to the spine specialists, they wouldn't know anything about TMS and this would be their only conclusion they would be able to draw. I highly recommend visiting a TMS practitioner if you don't want to go down the "conventional" route to help your confidence in the diagnosis.
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Yeah I am making an appt with a TMS practicioner up in north jersey soon. Thanks!
 
Kerrj74 said:
Hi folks. For the past few months I have been committed to the TMS diagnosis and have been doing everything- reading and listening to every book, video, CD, Curable app, exercise, mediation, programs like Dr. Schubiner’s, etc. I use daily journaling and self talk and professional psychotherapy to get at my deep emotions and rage/fear. I dont have any traumatic events in my past. Just a perfectionist with all the TMS personality traits. Despite months of doing everything I am supposed to be doing for TMS, I never improve even the slightest bit. Then I was at my doc yesterday for a normal checkup and he asked about my back. I told him and he was like, “You know, 3 spine and pain doctors told you that you need to have facet joint nerve ablations to get rid of your pain. If you dont listen to them, you will never get rid of the pain.”. I was so upset. I try not to listen to the docs, but then this really shook my confidence that I have TMS. This made me start to wonder... may be if I haven’t shown ANY improvement in the pain despite all the things I am supposed to be doing for TMS, then may be they are right? May be my pain is different? Why else would this have no impact whatsoever. May be burning the nerves will give me some relief? I am really desperate for pain relief. Thoughts???
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Whenever I do any research on the procedure, the reports of its effectiveness seem to differ greatly, depending on the source of the information. Apparently, the fried nerves take time to die off so there can be continued pain for weeks, making it difficult to measure any degree of relief. Another friend is trying it next week.
 
Lavender said:
Whenever I do any research on the procedure, the reports of its effectiveness seem to differ greatly, depending on the source of the information. Apparently, the fried nerves take time to die off so there can be continued pain for weeks, making it difficult to measure any degree of relief. Another friend is trying it next week.
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Thanks Lavender. I feel the same way. The only reason I even consider it is because my friend in work has had the procedure a few times over the years and he said it is the only thing that has ever relieved his pain. Placebo? Possibly.
 
Yes there is compelling evidence that many of these procedures are placebo only, same goes for any pain treatment such as PT for pain, surgery etc. True they will cut off feeling to the nerve but the TMS could easily shift, come back or use a different neural pathway to produce pain. Any pain caused by the brain will not be solved by burning a peripheral nerve. I've had patients report relief from totally random things that physiologically have nothing to do with their pain! Like someone telling them to do one particular exercise and they report this "took their pain away"...just shows power of the placebo :) Good luck with your TMS journey, I know you can do it!
 
MindBodyPT said:
Yes there is compelling evidence that many of these procedures are placebo only, same goes for any pain treatment such as PT for pain, surgery etc. True they will cut off feeling to the nerve but the TMS could easily shift, come back or use a different neural pathway to produce pain. Any pain caused by the brain will not be solved by burning a peripheral nerve. I've had patients report relief from totally random things that physiologically have nothing to do with their pain! Like someone telling them to do one particular exercise and they report this "took their pain away"...just shows power of the placebo :) Good luck with your TMS journey, I know you can do it!
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Wow! Thanks. I suspect that is all it is- a placebo, but I am at the point where I would almost welcome the pain to move to somewhere else other than my back so I can sit and stand and enjoy life a little again. Like my little toe or something!
 
We all know how it is with specialists. Each tends to be certain that our symptoms fall within their specialty; be it neurology, orthopedic, chiropractic, surgery, etc.

TMS doctors are only human and can also be biased since their practice is focused on TMS. Perhaps their TMS diagnosis is made due to answers to questions about the patient’s traits, relationships, fears, or stress related additional symptoms. However the ideal visit and complete examination should allay health concerns by reassuring the patient that any previous medical diagnosis ( such as certain spinal conditions) cannot possibly be the source of the pain.

After all, some of the contributing authors and practitioners state that we all have TMS to some degree. Removing all doubt would be the ideal. I wonder if anyone has seen a TMS physician and been told that it's not TMS?
Food for thought. Hmmm.
 
I haven't posted in a while, but I felt like I should reply to your question about nerve ablation. First, I understand your desperation! When numerous epidurals didn't give me sustained relief, RFA sounded like a reasonable option (I didn't know about TMS). I had SI joint ablation on my left side in July 2016. I know it's different for everyone, but it was an incredibly painful procedure for me. No pain medication during or after. The doctor that performed the ablation was uncaring and disconnected from the amount of pain I was suffering. Worst of all, it didn't work!

Since then, the SI joint issue has lessened some, but guess what? The pain moved into my shoulder and upper back. It's been almost as debilitating as the SI joint! It's been a year since I discovered TMS and the pain has ebbed and flowed in intensity, but it's always there. To be honest, I've had a hard time believing in TMS. Now, I'm starting over. I pulled out Steve O's books last night, rediscovered Sarno on my Kindle, and plan to start journaling again. I'm leaning strongly toward consulting a TMS therapist. Ultimately, the RFA decision is yours. I thought it might help to hear from someone who has been there.
 
balto said:
You will be sorry when it does that. :(
there is no such thing as a pleasant tms symptom.
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I know . I was exaggerating, honestly, I would gladly trade back two years of elbow tendinitis for this back pain. It was more intense pain, but didn’t ruin my life like this back pain that hurts 24/7.
 
HattieNC said:
I haven't posted in a while, but I felt like I should reply to your question about nerve ablation. First, I understand your desperation! When numerous epidurals didn't give me sustained relief, RFA sounded like a reasonable option (I didn't know about TMS). I had SI joint ablation on my left side in July 2016. I know it's different for everyone, but it was an incredibly painful procedure for me. No pain medication during or after. The doctor that performed the ablation was uncaring and disconnected from the amount of pain I was suffering. Worst of all, it didn't work!

Since then, the SI joint issue has lessened some, but guess what? The pain moved into my shoulder and upper back. It's been almost as debilitating as the SI joint! It's been a year since I discovered TMS and the pain has ebbed and flowed in intensity, but it's always there. To be honest, I've had a hard time believing in TMS. Now, I'm starting over. I pulled out Steve O's books last night, rediscovered Sarno on my Kindle, and plan to start journaling again. I'm leaning strongly toward consulting a TMS therapist. Ultimately, the RFA decision is yours. I thought it might help to hear from someone who has been there.
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Thank you so much for sharing that! I tend to agree. Good luck to you.
 
Kerrj74 said:
Thank you so much for sharing that! I tend to agree. Good luck to you.
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Everyone of us understand your plight. Back pain- permanent Healing -Steve O. I keep reading Chapter 6....."to heal, you need to know there are powerful emotions that exist, and then begin to connect the pain to those emotions by seeing pain as an emotion, and not as a spine problem. These emotions are a side of you that the ego refuses to accept." Never thought of it this way. Great point. Pain is an emotion.
 
Kerrj74 said:
Thoughts???
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I felt the need to respond to this post because attending to the recalcitrant nerve is standard practice with my main condition (trigeminal neuralgia) but it often has undesirable (and sometimes catastrophic) consequences. Before you do anything that changes the structure of any part of the body please think long and hard. I say this to add awareness to the mix, as most medical lessons are learned too late.

Sometimes the very best thing we can do is stop trying so hard to heal because all this does is generate tension. I've found recovery much easier when I think in terms of tension rather than emotion. I am completely aware of both nuance and difference between these two states but I garner greater traction when I favour body-oriented and kinder considerations such as relaxation, pleasure* and the aforementioned tension. It's very easy to get stuck on the emotional front most probably because we are still learning about our emotional selves so this slight shift in focus back to the body (not the pain) can help a lot.

*It is a shame that pleasure has become virtually synonymous with sexuality. There is nothing wrong with sex but I use the term in the broadest, most sensual of senses. A sunrise, a pet, a good meal all bring pleasure.

The more I resolve my neuralgia, the more my back plays up...the joys of the symptom imperative ;) however I experienced a beautiful, visceral reminder today. As I drove home from the swimming baths I saturated my mind in the deeply relaxed feeling of my body. I'd spent the best part of an hour in the Jacuzzi ensuring every possible inch of my body was massaged. All tension melted away and with it all the pain and stiffness. In this super relaxed state it is very easy to feel the physiogical impact of thoughts and emotions. This is such a vital insight into TMS. It is the body's response to the mind.
 
plum said:
I felt the need to respond to this post because attending to the recalcitrant nerve is standard practice with my main condition (trigeminal neuralgia) but it often has undesirable (and sometimes catastrophic) consequences. Before you do anything that changes the structure of any part of the body please think long and hard. I say this to add awareness to the mix, as most medical lessons are learned too late.

Sometimes the very best thing we can do is stop trying so hard to heal because all this does is generate tension. I've found recovery much easier when I think in terms of tension rather than emotion. I am completely aware of both nuance and difference between these two states but I garner greater traction when I favour body-oriented and kinder considerations such as relaxation, pleasure* and the aforementioned tension. It's very easy to get stuck on the emotional front most probably because we are still learning about our emotional selves so this slight shift in focus back to the body (not the pain) can help a lot.

*It is a shame that pleasure has become virtually synonymous with sexuality. There is nothing wrong with sex but I use the term in the broadest, most sensual of senses. A sunrise, a pet, a good meal all bring pleasure.

The more I resolve my neuralgia, the more my back plays up...the joys of the symptom imperative ;) however I experienced a beautiful, visceral reminder today. As I drove home from the swimming baths I saturated my mind in the deeply relaxed feeling of my body. I'd spent the best part of an hour in the Jacuzzi ensuring every possible inch of my body was massaged. All tension melted away and with it all the pain and stiffness. In this super relaxed state it is very easy to feel the physiogical impact of thoughts and emotions. This is such a vital insight into TMS. It is the body's response to the mind.
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Thanks plum!
 
plum said:
I felt the need to respond to this post because attending to the recalcitrant nerve is standard practice with my main condition (trigeminal neuralgia) but it often has undesirable (and sometimes catastrophic) consequences. Before you do anything that changes the structure of any part of the body please think long and hard. I say this to add awareness to the mix, as most medical lessons are learned too late.

Sometimes the very best thing we can do is stop trying so hard to heal because all this does is generate tension. I've found recovery much easier when I think in terms of tension rather than emotion. I am completely aware of both nuance and difference between these two states but I garner greater traction when I favour body-oriented and kinder considerations such as relaxation, pleasure* and the aforementioned tension. It's very easy to get stuck on the emotional front most probably because we are still learning about our emotional selves so this slight shift in focus back to the body (not the pain) can help a lot.

*It is a shame that pleasure has become virtually synonymous with sexuality. There is nothing wrong with sex but I use the term in the broadest, most sensual of senses. A sunrise, a pet, a good meal all bring pleasure.

The more I resolve my neuralgia, the more my back plays up...the joys of the symptom imperative ;) however I experienced a beautiful, visceral reminder today. As I drove home from the swimming baths I saturated my mind in the deeply relaxed feeling of my body. I'd spent the best part of an hour in the Jacuzzi ensuring every possible inch of my body was massaged. All tension melted away and with it all the pain and stiffness. In this super relaxed state it is very easy to feel the physiogical impact of thoughts and emotions. This is such a vital insight into TMS. It is the body's response to the mind.
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What ever rocks your socks...LOL.
 
I agree with Plum,

I think Kerry’s wife should slap a leash on him and take him on the longest walk of his life to make him exhaustingly tired. When you are in this state you don’t care about anything!

Maybe you are in pain because you care, and maybe you care because you are so overwhelmed with too many facts in the physical realm about your body and its pain. Perhaps one could say your cache is so full of physical facts that there is no room for any thoughts of healing enlightenment.

César Milan of the “Dog Whisperer” uses this technique to train his dogs, when the dog becomes tired it becomes more receptive to commands and new training.

I can verify like Plum, that being tired not only places you in a position of surrender and reception, but gives your brain a break. Here is a personal thread that describes this further.

http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/diong-absolutely-nothing.16372/

Wuf, Wuf:)
 
andy64tms said:
I agree with Plum,

I think Kerry’s wife should slap a leash on him and take him on the longest walk of his life to make him exhaustingly tired. When you are in this state you don’t care about anything!

Maybe you are in pain because you care, and maybe you care because you are so overwhelmed with too many facts in the physical realm about your body and its pain. Perhaps one could say your cache is so full of physical facts that there is no room for any thoughts of healing enlightenment.

César Milan of the “Dog Whisperer” uses this technique to train his dogs, when the dog becomes tired it becomes more receptive to commands and new training.

I can verify like Plum, that being tired not only places you in a position of surrender and reception, but gives your brain a break. Here is a personal thread that describes this further.

http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/diong-absolutely-nothing.16372/

Wuf, Wuf:)
Click to expand...

Thank you Andy! Wuf!
 
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