"If It's too heavy to Lift" revisited

M

music321

Well known member
Frankly, I don't know what to think about the Sarno teaching that if something is too heavy to lift, one wouldn't be able to lift it. I've read stories online of "power lifter" weight lifters that have torn muscles when trying to bench press 400 lbs. It seems that if something is too heavy to lift, that yes, it might cause a muscle injury.

There IS such a thing as muscle injury. How do these injuries happen? Surely, they're not all from violent blows to the body.

I'm in a profound state of weakness. My emotional tension is very high, living with my mom who has cancer, etc. For months, I have been walking with a walker. Earlier today, I stepped over an obstacle and slightly over-stretched my calf. No biggie, I've done this before. However, several hours later, I was walking up the stairs. Under the best of circumstances, doing this is a difficult task. Walking each step was very difficult, as if I was wearing a 100 lb backpack. Toward the top, I took a step, and my calf wobbled a bit, before giving slightly. I felt a sharp pain immediately in my calf. The pain is very localized, smaller than the size of a dime. It hurts, and is a tight little knot.

It would be wonderful if this were just TMS, but unfortunately, I think I just injured the calf. I don't know what to think of any of this anymore. Any thoughts?

Thanks
 
I am a caregiver also and know its difficult, but you do need to think about yourself and own needs. My wife's surgeon for her knee replacement said: " its all very well looking after your family, but you should have come to me 10 years ago" A lovely compassionate man who saw the real problem was her acceptance and unwillingness to take care of herself.

I think Dr Sarno was pointing out the conditioning issues of believing we are going to hurt our backs by lifting. Attached to this is the unwarranted fear of believing we are going to do ourselves harm and of course the fear of repeated pain. This is the psychological TMS concern.

The physical side of lifting too much is only too clear, people do get hurt, their muscles tear and cease up and rebel. Your body says: “no, too much, don’t do this again”.

I believe deeply that lack of movement activity, exercise and the joy of movement is essential for our TMS emotional state and overcoming fear. Were you prescribed a walker, if so for what reason? My wife has had reason to have a walker, two knee replacements. You can make the choice is the walker to support you forever or to help you recover.

Your injured calf will heal in time, a knot is a real injury, but certainly not TMS. TMS is your attitude towards your condition.

Good luck.
 
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I think Dr. Sarno just meant this (the lifting thing) to be an inspiring idea and not something controversial and provocative. He didn't expect people to do some kind of neurotic jujitsu move on the idea and turn it into yet another worry or doubt. But then, we are really good at that..... :)
 
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Well, this isn't what I wanted to hear, but it makes sense. I'm profoundly weak, and it feels like I strained seven muscles within the past few days. I tensed my arm so someone could pull me out of bed a little while ago. Though my grip did not fail, I immediately felt a sharp pain in my bicep. I guess it's just another injury.
 
Broken foot atrophy, pain started when cast was removed. Same as you! Any movement caused twangs, pangs, shooting pains of all descriptions. The worst hot and cold dips for my leg.
In the end I made a joke about it..
Boy did I need my cat!

Andy
 
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Muscle weakness if most definitely TMS. I could hardly lift my foot 6 inches off of the ground. Ten days later, after reading Sarno, I could lift it as high as I wanted. Your muscles are weak and tight from blood restriction, which is induced by the brain.

I don't believe you could injure yourself going up stairs or slightly "over-stretching" your calf. Also, the fact that the pain appeared later, not immediately upon "stretching your calf," indicates TMS. True injuries cause bursting pain immediately, which then subsides gradually.

I take Sarno literally. If something was too heavy, we would not be able to lift it. Also, even if you did injure yourself lifting, the pain would eventually subside because all injuries heal. Chronic or recurring pain cannot be explained by injury, because that is not how the bodies work. Nerves flare up in pain from an injury, then die off. I know someone who was hit by a van on his bicycle last spring, breaking both legs completely, and is this winter is now completely healed and shoveling snow.

If you can't get out of the structural mindset, you can't heal. You have to get a little wild in your thinking and start believing you have the body you want to have.
 
andy64tms said:
Perhaps you have atrophy, very real pain, I know first hand.

Here are a couple of links:

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/003188.htm

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=bkayXNmWK-jl0gKL-bLABg&q=atrophy&btnK=Google+Search&oq=atrophy&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.1919.5306..5738...0.0..0.85.507.7......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i131.DlMoh-BII3Y

Be well Andy
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I'm sorry but this is terrible advice. This is a forum where we try and encourage people that they don't have anything structurally wrong with them, no? How is this helpful? Sharing fear-inducing medical information can actually increase a person's pain. I speak from personal experience.
 
Hi Grapefruit,

I can see your point to a degree. Most medical websites do contain an element of fear. Since Music is spending 20 hours a day in bed perhaps, he may have pain caused by atrophy.

In my opinion it would be helpful for him to investigate this area further: a mere suggestion not advice.

My response was directed to this statement:”It would be wonderful if this were just TMS, but unfortunately, I think I just injured the calf. I don't know what to think of any of this anymore.” Any thoughts?

Regards Andrew
 
andy64tms said:
Hi Grapefruit,

I can see your point to a degree. Most medical websites do contain an element of fear. Since Music is spending 20 hours a day in bed perhaps, he may have pain caused by atrophy.

In my opinion it would be helpful for him to investigate this area further: a mere suggestion not advice.

My response was directed to this statement:”It would be wonderful if this were just TMS, but unfortunately, I think I just injured the calf. I don't know what to think of any of this anymore.” Any thoughts?

Regards Andrew
Click to expand...

Actually many medical websites provide completely false information regarding chronic pain, because they are premised on a false paradigm (pain=injury/structural abnormality).

I also was in bed for 20 hours a day, for six weeks. Yet 10 days after getting out of bed because of reading Sarno, I was doing jumping jacks and push ups. This was astounding to me, because I thought that even if Sarno was right, and I didn't have a structural problem, my muscles should still be weak from disuse and take weeks to be able to use vigorously again. But I was wrong.

I think it would be interesting to hear the structural explanation for "atrophy". What is actually happening to the muscles on a physical/chemical level? Sarno's theory of reduced bloodflow is the only explanation that makes sense to me. Reduced bloodflow causes muscle weakness. You can easily see this when your fingers have been out in the freezing cold - they are stiff and weak (I can never play the piano after coming in out of the cold until my hands warm up and the circulation is flowing again, and I think TMS functions similarly. Increased bloodflow increases muscle power.)
 
Hi Grapefruit cup,:)

So glad to read about your recovery and healing.

Lets agree many web sites can indeed mislead with false information that induce fear and doubt. I have my own set of rules for surfing for the information I am seeking. Like most people I have had mixed results increasing my anxiety or satisfying my question.

From the year 2000 to 2011 the only TMS knowledge I had was Healing Back pain and Dr Sarno Tapes. Even though I had made a recovery from severe back pain, my psychological healing hadn’t even begun. I then discovered the TMS website, scores of U-tube videos, as well as many people and therapists that also had TMS leanings.

I once wrote that TMS is a “Typically Mysterious Syndrome” and this appears to be so for every one’s pain and healing is different to the next, with the only certainty being that our pain is emotionally or psychologically driven. I've seen many discussions as to what is or isn’t TMS and conclude it’s our individual set of beliefs that make it work for us or not. If we become uncomfortable with our progress, perhaps it might be time for new information or a change of beliefs.

In 2000 I remember healing from severe back pain by jogging against my pain. This I found later was contrary to TMS theory since you should not combat your pain, but it worked for me. So from day one my healing was an anomaly, kind of off putting. I also had a hard time with the stretching and exercise do’s and don’ts and I remember any kind of physical therapy was considered a “no-no” on the TMS Help website and Dr. Sarno's comments. I believe the good Dr was directing us from the physical to the psychological, now we have a user here called MindbodyPT, isn’t that great?

These anomalies in my opinion keep you in pain since they stop you moving forward to discovery. When I read: “The Great Pain deception” by Steve Ozanich, I was overwealmed with anomalies, but I read on, absorbing what was important to me and useful at the time.

By Music321’s own comments he is bedridden, by choice using a walker and self suggesting that his pain is not TMS. When I suggested “atrophy”, Music started a brand new thread, he did not comment, perhaps he is not ready, I am glad for it gave Baseball the chance to reply with a wonderful answer that is full of hope, I see you read it.

It would be nice if atrophy was simple and we understood it at a cellular level, but do we need to. Of the three types I choose this explanation taken from the web for “physiologic atrophy”:

“Physiologic atrophy” is caused by not using the muscles enough. This type of atrophy can often be reversed with exercise and better nutrition.”

I think it portrays hope.

Be well Andrew
 
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grapefruit said:
Actually many medical websites provide completely false information regarding chronic pain, because they are premised on a false paradigm (pain=injury/structural abnormality).

I also was in bed for 20 hours a day, for six weeks. Yet 10 days after getting out of bed because of reading Sarno, I was doing jumping jacks and push ups. This was astounding to me, because I thought that even if Sarno was right, and I didn't have a structural problem, my muscles should still be weak from disuse and take weeks to be able to use vigorously again. But I was wrong.

I think it would be interesting to hear the structural explanation for "atrophy". What is actually happening to the muscles on a physical/chemical level? Sarno's theory of reduced bloodflow is the only explanation that makes sense to me. Reduced bloodflow causes muscle weakness. You can easily see this when your fingers have been out in the freezing cold - they are stiff and weak (I can never play the piano after coming in out of the cold until my hands warm up and the circulation is flowing again, and I think TMS functions similarly. Increased bloodflow increases muscle power.)
Click to expand...

Belatedly, thanks for the reply . I'm still dealing with TMS all these years later, which is why I'm poking around here, but how long were you in bed for? Are we talking a few weeks, a few months, a few years?
 
andy64tms said:
Hi Grapefruit cup,:)

So glad to read about your recovery and healing.

Lets agree many web sites can indeed mislead with false information that induce fear and doubt. I have my own set of rules for surfing for the information I am seeking. Like most people I have had mixed results increasing my anxiety or satisfying my question.

From the year 2000 to 2011 the only TMS knowledge I had was Healing Back pain and Dr Sarno Tapes. Even though I had made a recovery from severe back pain, my psychological healing hadn’t even begun. I then discovered the TMS website, scores of U-tube videos, as well as many people and therapists that also had TMS leanings.

I once wrote that TMS is a “Typically Mysterious Syndrome” and this appears to be so for every one’s pain and healing is different to the next, with the only certainty being that our pain is emotionally or psychologically driven. I've seen many discussions as to what is or isn’t TMS and conclude it’s our individual set of beliefs that make it work for us or not. If we become uncomfortable with our progress, perhaps it might be time for new information or a change of beliefs.

In 2000 I remember healing from severe back pain by jogging against my pain. This I found later was contrary to TMS theory since you should not combat your pain, but it worked for me. So from day one my healing was an anomaly, kind of off putting. I also had a hard time with the stretching and exercise do’s and don’ts and I remember any kind of physical therapy was considered a “no-no” on the TMS Help website and Dr. Sarno's comments. I believe the good Dr was directing us from the physical to the psychological, now we have a user here called MindbodyPT, isn’t that great?

These anomalies in my opinion keep you in pain since they stop you moving forward to discovery. When I read: “The Great Pain deception” by Steve Ozanich, I was overwealmed with anomalies, but I read on, absorbing what was important to me and useful at the time.

By Music321’s own comments he is bedridden, by choice using a walker and self suggesting that his pain is not TMS. When I suggested “atrophy”, Music started a brand new thread, he did not comment, perhaps he is not ready, I am glad for it gave Baseball the chance to reply with a wonderful answer that is full of hope, I see you read it.

It would be nice if atrophy was simple and we understood it at a cellular level, but do we need to. Of the three types I choose this explanation taken from the web for “physiologic atrophy”:

“Physiologic atrophy” is caused by not using the muscles enough. This type of atrophy can often be reversed with exercise and better nutrition.”

I think it portrays hope.

Be well Andrew
Click to expand...


Thank you as well for the reply. I can't recall why it was that. I didn't reply further all those years ago, at some point, possibly then, I was having trouble using the computer. Though I am still on the journey, and for a lot longer than I thought I'd be, I've made some remarkable progress just over the past few months, that had been sorely lacking for quite a while. I feel like I'm starting to finally get somewhere, and look forward to the time soon when this is behind me.

there were some deep seated issues from long ago that I had not even gone to Russell with half the time of this original posting. Things are going in the right direction.
 
music321 said:
.... My emotional tension is very high, living with my mom who has cancer, etc.
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To continue with the teachings of Dr. Sarno, he'd strongly suggest that you stick right here and dig under the surface of what's going on. That classic phrase that is all over the forum: Think psychologically, not physically.

music321 said:
.... It would be wonderful if this were just TMS, but unfortunately, I think I just injured the calf. I don't know what to think of any of this anymore. Any thoughts?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Continuing with Sarno, he wrote quite a bit about injuries that just did not heal. He talked about minor sports injuries (runners, tennis players, etc.) that should heal quickly, but turned into TMS and just kept going. We can injure ourselves. If we over-stretch our calf, we might have some pain and need to rest it a little bit. But minor strains should resolve themselves very quickly.
 
Here’s the difference I think. For sure you can still injure yourself if you have an accident or doing things that humans aren’t meant to do like lift 400 lb. Our ancestors never lifted 400 pounds. But they sure did walk everywhere, run, and carry (ruck) heavy things… but not 400 pounds. I don’t believe you can injure yourself by trying to be a human being. We are meant to walk.

That being said, I “injure” myself all the time by going up the stairs, or moving my foot quick if I almost drop something on it (my startle response is crazy), or stepping on uneven ground. I’ll find anything that makes me feel slightly weird like oh a little pain in my ankle as I stepped on a rock and it slightly turned or my knee felt wobbly on that step. 99% of my fake injuries are stupid stuff where I think I’m not paying attention and do something weird, yet I’ll go for a run and be fine. It’s a complete over sensitization to bodily sensations and pain. I tripped 2 days ago and I knew I was gonna land on my right knee “the bad one” and I might hurt it. I think I felt a zing of pain before I even hit the ground. Then ensued panic which was the real driver of the pain, not that I did anything.

Long story short, I get you, but I highly doubt you injured yourself just walking. Your body is meant to do this. It is not meant to lift 400lb.
 
dystonicrunner said:
Here’s the difference I think. For sure you can still injure yourself if you have an accident or doing things that humans aren’t meant to do like lift 400 lb. Our ancestors never lifted 400 pounds. But they sure did walk everywhere, run, and carry (ruck) heavy things… but not 400 pounds. I don’t believe you can injure yourself by trying to be a human being. We are meant to walk.

That being said, I “injure” myself all the time by going up the stairs, or moving my foot quick if I almost drop something on it (my startle response is crazy), or stepping on uneven ground. I’ll find anything that makes me feel slightly weird like oh a little pain in my ankle as I stepped on a rock and it slightly turned or my knee felt wobbly on that step. 99% of my fake injuries are stupid stuff where I think I’m not paying attention and do something weird, yet I’ll go for a run and be fine. It’s a complete over sensitization to bodily sensations and pain. I tripped 2 days ago and I knew I was gonna land on my right knee “the bad one” and I might hurt it. I think I felt a zing of pain before I even hit the ground. Then ensued panic which was the real driver of the pain, not that I did anything.

Long story short, I get you, but I highly doubt you injured yourself just walking. Your body is meant to do this. It is not meant to lift 400lb.
Click to expand...

I can picture 400 pounds causing an injury. 2 pounds certainly will not. But I've always had trouble with is the in between.
 
dystonicrunner said:
Here’s the difference I think. For sure you can still injure yourself if you have an accident or doing things that humans aren’t meant to do like lift 400 lb. Our ancestors never lifted 400 pounds. But they sure did walk everywhere, run, and carry (ruck) heavy things… but not 400 pounds. I don’t believe you can injure yourself by trying to be a human being. We are meant to walk.

That being said, I “injure” myself all the time by going up the stairs, or moving my foot quick if I almost drop something on it (my startle response is crazy), or stepping on uneven ground. I’ll find anything that makes me feel slightly weird like oh a little pain in my ankle as I stepped on a rock and it slightly turned or my knee felt wobbly on that step. 99% of my fake injuries are stupid stuff where I think I’m not paying attention and do something weird, yet I’ll go for a run and be fine. It’s a complete over sensitization to bodily sensations and pain. I tripped 2 days ago and I knew I was gonna land on my right knee “the bad one” and I might hurt it. I think I felt a zing of pain before I even hit the ground. Then ensued panic which was the real driver of the pain, not that I did anything.

Long story short, I get you, but I highly doubt you injured yourself just walking. Your body is meant to do this. It is not meant to lift 400lb.
Click to expand...

I have been rereading this post twice a day ever since you posted it. I think everybody else for the replies that you've made, but just reading about these little fake injuries that you get constantly is a good way of reassuring myself that all of these pains that I get are not injuries either. Good luck on your recovery
 
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