Dealing with fatigue

S

Shakermaker

Peer Supporter
I just thought I would start a thread on what is so far my most persistent and difficult TMS symptom: fatigue. I am starting this basically I think as a way to keep myself on track with dealing with it. And of course it would be great to hear from any others who might have advice on dealing with it. I will probably just update it now and again with progress reports. For my own accountability as much as everything else.

To cut a very long story short, my fatigue started in the 2016-18 period due to various stresses going on at work. Initially being promoted out of my depth without any support, then having to simultaneously cover the work of 2 sick colleagues. Then also having to deal with malevolent colleagues. This all led to me feeling that my employer was no longer safe, and I started just feeling constantly tired. I wouldn't say it is debilitating, but it does have a negative impact on my life.

I would say I feel like an old mobile phone when the battery starts dying. I get to maximum 70% battery at the best of times, and from that base my power levels reduce very quickly. Regularly getting down to 0% where I have to just crash and do absolutely nothing for a few days. And the frequency with which I get to 0% feels like it's always increasing.

All the bad situations at work have now stopped, and I get nothing but positive reviews from my superiors, but despite that my employer still no longer feels 'safe' to me.

I'm in my mid-40s and single, so I go out a lot which also reduces my energy I guess. I would say my lifestyle is more that of someone in their early 30s which I guess is not sustainable for someone my age. But then the only alternative is to sit at home alone which is depressing.

So up until recently I have thought that I needed to deal with all of this to get my energy back. Deal with the work situation, get a girlfriend and settle down etc. But I've been doing some reading on here recently and also Nicole Sachs' book, and it says that the energy can come back without me having to deal with these situations. So I am now trying to do the proper TMS work. I have started talking to my brain and doing journaling in the Nicole Sachs method.

I have dealt with numerous other TMS issues in the past (back problems, acid reflux, knee pain, rosacea, IBS) just from accepting they are TMS. But with fatigue it looks like I'm going to have to do some proper work.

I think the main problem with fatigue for me is not knowing when to push through and when to rest. Sometimes I cancel things I want to do because I feel and look exhausted and feel like I should lie down and rest for fear of making it worse. Maybe that is counterproductive.

I'm very curious to hear from people who have successfully beaten this.
 
I would also add, that after doing some reading recently, I found out about Nicole Sachs who seems to have helped many with fatigue, and I've also seen the Gupta method mentioned, so I will keep those in mind.
 
How enraging might it be to feel you are forced to “settle down” because you are at the age society expects it, when you really just want to continue being the life of the party?

I have a female friend who is in her 80’s. She goes to see live music probably 3-4 nites s week. Most of the time she’s on the dance floor banging her head to punk rock in her maxi skirt and support shoes (cute ones). She doesn’t give a flying f* what anyone thinks.
The Gupta method is $$$$$
Reading the Divided Mind by Dr. John Sarno is the cost of a cheap paperback. Nichole Sach’s was his patient and a protégée. Dr. Sarno and Nichole are all about getting in touch with your inner rage. The kinds we don’t even realize we have.
This forum also offers two free programs, neither are meant to specifically address fatigue, but are generalized to symptoms of all types because any chronic symptom is usually generated by internal stress: the mind.
Free programs can be found by scrolling down the pages of tmswiki. org
 
Shakermaker said:
I would say my lifestyle is more that of someone in their early 30s which I guess is not sustainable for someone my age.
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F*** me, @Shakermaker, but that is some judgemental bullshit going on right there. You would do well to ask yourself the following:

WTF????

This is also, obviously (to me, anyway, LOL) your brain on TMS. It is also (and I'm sorry) laughable - from the viewpoint of 73 years.

Okay: the good news, also obviously, is how far you've come and the success you've had. Finding Nicole Sachs is great, as I think she is one of our best resources. However, if you're not doing her program, @Cactusflower is right on to recommend one of ours. Nicole's Journalspeak will fit just fine with the expressive writing exercises of the SEP.

I'm also in agreement with @Cactusflower that this issue is a terrific one for examination. A great Journalspeak topic. Not just to examine the rage underlying the self-judgement, but I would want to examine where the heck this came from? Parents or other adults? Peers? An old ex, telling you to act your age? Writing to figure that out could be very freeing for different reasons, not the least of which is recognizing the damage that self-judgement inflicts.

Here's the thing about Judgement. Self-Judgement leads to Pressure, which leads to Repression, which leads to Symptoms. We all do it - we judge others, which is bad enough (and ultimately does not make us feel good) but we spend more time and emotional energy judging ourselves. Can we stop doing it? Doubtful. But can we be more mindful and do our best to turn it down? Absolutely.

Another aspect could be unconscious rage about aging and its association with mortality. I only bring that up because that was my big TMS crisis trigger.

Shakermaker said:
I think the main problem with fatigue for me is not knowing when to push through and when to rest. Sometimes I cancel things I want to do because I feel and look exhausted and feel like I should lie down and rest for fear of making it worse. Maybe that is counterproductive.
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I'm going to say Yes, this is probably counterproductive. After all, getting back to living by doing what we fear, in spite of symptoms, is at the heart of Dr. Sarno's work, is it not? Just because you have fatigue instead of back pain doesn't change that basic recommendation.

Do you recall the concept of the "evidence sheet"? This is a place where you keep track of evidence that your symptoms are TMS. It's time for you to start paying attention to those times when fatigue was threatening to take you out, when something came along to distract you and the fatigue disappeared. Since it's a lot more subtle than pain, it would be easy to ignore when it happens (and your TMS brain is not about to remember it for you!) - but I'll bet you dollars to donuts it HAS happened. Make a commitment to paying attention and putting those times on your sheet.

Keep it up - you're on the road to recovery!
 
Thanks for the insight @Cactusflower @JanAtheCPA to be honest I don't think I really realised that this might be enraging to me. I have definitely realised I do put a lot of pressure on myself with regard to aging, but wasn't looking at it from that angle. I thought maybe I am enraged because I'm 44 and still haven't found a long-term partner, or I'm 44 and I'm not where I want to be in my career and not where I think someone my age "should" be in that sense. I didn't realise that maybe it's actually the fact that I'm judging myself in this way that is causing the rage rather than the situation itself. There's a lot of perfectionism in there I think. Regarding the partner aspect of that I basically almost keep track of every new wrinkle that appears and every hair that falls out of my head, and with each one telling myself its now even less likely that someone will be attracted to me. That must be very enraging.

As to where it came from, I really don't know, I would indeed have to journal on that, I guess I've always had the tendency to compare myself negatively against others, even since I was very little. But yes I will definitely journal on it. When I go to a bar I guess my unconscious biases only allow me to notice the people younger than me and not my own age or older. Likewise professionally I probably only notice the people who are doing better than me.

I do find it very hard to realise what could cause rage though generally, despite reading Sarno and Steve O's books. I'll have to keep at it.​

I actually had forgotten about the evidence sheet concept. I'll look into that again too. But yes I'm sure there are examples.
 
On the other side of this.. why do you go to the bar if it’s not s very happy place for you?
What do you truly enjoy, what liberates or relaxes you? What do you like that takes your mind off of being so self critical, that allows you to just be you?

It’s amazing that we will often do stuff we actually don’t enjoy much for reasons we don’t even know, isn’t it… and we often don’t do the stuff we love to do very often!

I think you are quite perceptive and you seem to get what Sarno was saying. It’s just putting into daily action.. for a lifetime.
 
Cactusflower said:
On the other side of this.. why do you go to the bar if it’s not s very happy place for you?
What do you truly enjoy, what liberates or relaxes you? What do you like that takes your mind off of being so self critical, that allows you to just be you?

It’s amazing that we will often do stuff we actually don’t enjoy much for reasons we don’t even know, isn’t it… and we often don’t do the stuff we love to do very often!

I think you are quite perceptive and you seem to get what Sarno was saying. It’s just putting into daily action.. for a lifetime.
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Those are really good questions. And the answer to all of them I think is I don't know.

Going to the bar is fun sometimes and the main reason I go there is in the hope of meeting someone. But also because it can be fun to hang out with friends and enjoy a drink or 2.

What do I truly enjoy and what liberates and relaxes me? I really don't know. I enjoy going to the gym, to concerts (which I don't go to very often) and I enjoy watching sports especially soccer. That's about it I think. Travelling too. But yes you're right these things I mostly don't do often enough.

But I don't know what allows me to just be me. Even in the things I enjoy I am still self-critical :) I don't feel like my job or the city I live in are really a reflection of my true identity, and I often blame my TMS at least partly on that. But from what I understand TMS can be cured despite that right?
 
"I have dealt with numerous other TMS issues in the past (back problems, acid reflux, knee pain, rosacea, IBS) just from accepting they are TMS."
Obviously you have had a series of recurrent TMS chronic issues that "just accepting they are from TMS" dealt with in the SHORT term.
Jan states "Here's the thing about Judgement. Self-Judgement leads to Pressure, which leads to Repression, which leads to Symptoms." the Repression is, as Dr. Sarno states RAGE which is why he asks us to think psychologically.
Go through all the stuff you think may NOT be causing you inner rage, because I guarantee, that's EXACTLY where the inner rage resides. We often don't even really need to discover or have a huge archeological dig through the rage...just like "AHA! THAT TRULY PISSES ME OFF". Is often enough. Simply to accept and acknowledge that we have rage, when we think it is an unacceptable emotion in the situation is 100% part of accepting this is all part of TMS.
"What might be bothering me".
It takes vulnerability.
We've often masked this side of us, thinking that our positive thoughts and attitudes towards these things are how we "should" be feeling, when our subconscious is kicking and screaming about all the s*it we have to deal with.
 
Cactusflower said:
"I have dealt with numerous other TMS issues in the past (back problems, acid reflux, knee pain, rosacea, IBS) just from accepting they are TMS."
Obviously you have had a series of recurrent TMS chronic issues that "just accepting they are from TMS" dealt with in the SHORT term.
Jan states "Here's the thing about Judgement. Self-Judgement leads to Pressure, which leads to Repression, which leads to Symptoms." the Repression is, as Dr. Sarno states RAGE which is why he asks us to think psychologically.
Go through all the stuff you think may NOT be causing you inner rage, because I guarantee, that's EXACTLY where the inner rage resides. We often don't even really need to discover or have a huge archeological dig through the rage...just like "AHA! THAT TRULY PISSES ME OFF". Is often enough. Simply to accept and acknowledge that we have rage, when we think it is an unacceptable emotion in the situation is 100% part of accepting this is all part of TMS.
"What might be bothering me".
It takes vulnerability.
We've often masked this side of us, thinking that our positive thoughts and attitudes towards these things are how we "should" be feeling, when our subconscious is kicking and screaming about all the s*it we have to deal with.
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Ok thanks I'll try this. I guess I have up to now been focusing on the things that cause me conscious rage and thinking I need to deal with them. Namely things around my relationship with my ex-gf and things around my job. I hate my job and only do it for security basically, so this is always the first thing I come to when I think of TMS. But maybe that is the wrong place to be focusing. Or maybe there is something in those but I have been focusing on them in the wrong way and not going deep enough about why they upset me.

Also, funnily enough, for journaling I was making out the 3 lists according to Sarno/Sachs. When it came to choosing which items to journal on, when it came to both of my parents I felt kind of nervous about going to those ones and I kind of had the feeling that I couldn't be mean to them in a journal speak tirade. So maybe that is an indication of where I need to focus. There is sure to be some rage there following their divorce in my childhood and things like that.

I still haven't done much journaling yet. Up to now I have been treating fatigue more like TMS the last week or so. I've been talking to my brain, and also doing things when feeling tired instead of just thinking I need to lie down and rest the whole time. This has already helped quite a lot. But I do want to devote some time to journaling. I guess I've been procrastinating a bit
 
Shakermaker said:
When it came to choosing which items to journal on, when it came to both of my parents I felt kind of nervous about going to those ones and I kind of had the feeling that I couldn't be mean to them in a journal speak tirade
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BINGO!

THIS is your brain on TMS. It's that simple.

And yes, the subjects that your brain is trying to get you to skip over, for whatever reason, are the ones it is most important to force yourself to work on. (in my case it was childhood things that my brain was literally trying to convince me were too embarrassing or shameful)

Remember, you don't keep what you write - you immediately get rid of it. This gives us a lot more freedom to express the truth.
 
Hi all, thanks again for all the advice and support you have given me here. It's been a while since I posted here. Unfortunately in that time I have not really done anything. At least nothing constructive. Again I've been focusing on trying to change external things in an attempt to alleviate my fatigue/depression, i.e. trying to find a girlfriend, go to bars etc. Probably unsurprisingly, it hasn't helped much. This week I caught yet another upper respiratory infection (my 4th since October last year) and the fatigue is very elevated. It's really time to do some proper work. I am going to sign up for Nicole Sachs' course. The book is useful but I think I need something a bit more structured.

Although I'm starting to think the issue is not fatigue but depression, and the fatigue is just a by-product of the depression. But I guess most say depression is TMS also so I guess Nicole's course will help with that too
 
I just read this thread because I'm having some similar struggles.

Thanks for your advice, Cactusflower and Jan.

Shakermaker, any updates since your last post?
 
Things said:
I just read this thread because I'm having some similar struggles.

Thanks for your advice, Cactusflower and Jan.

Shakermaker, any updates since your last post?
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Unfortunately not much. I'm just not very good at doing the work. I still feel tired every day.

I've got multiple little self-improvement projects going on in my life (which might incidentally be a source of rage for me), as well as trying to keep my social life, hobbies and job going. I find amongst all that it's quite difficult to make the time for journaling.

Maybe journaling isn't for me and I need to find another way. I have been reading about some other things on the This Might Hurt Film website as well as the Recovery Norway website. Things like lighting process, dynamic neural retraining, Mickel Therapy etc. So I might give those a try.
 
I hadn't read those testimonies, but I read them today. I thought the idea of expressing myself and emotions helpful (from the Patsy article). I have a tendency to not do that.

I don't have debilitating fatigue (though I did sometimes in the past, pre-Sarno), but I just feel like I am getting more tired than I should be.
 
Things said:
I don't have debilitating fatigue (though I did sometimes in the past, pre-Sarno), but I just feel like I am getting more tired than I should be.
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Well, @Things, the world today is pretty exhausting... and I'm being deadly serious about that.

These days I am really feeling the burden of information overload combined with what feels like unsolvable world dysfunction. It's quite disheartening, and, at my age, disappointing, as I used to have hope for a better future. And I went through several weeks recently where I had a vague sense of fatigue that was quite unusual, but I noticed that I could easily be distracted from it with exercise and social activities.

I had an appointment today with my TMS "coach" (I'm not allowed to use the "T" word but she is actually a fully-licensed LCSW in another state) and we talked about the toll of unresolved emotional conflict which is at the heart of TMS, and also about what self-care looks like. It would be great if a hot bubble bath and a box of chocolates is all it would take, but what self-care probably looks like is acceptance. Acceptance and forgiveness. Especially self-forgiveness. I find that writing stuff down (aka journaling) helps bring these two things into focus.
 
I have been reading a few success stories on here and it seems that journaling is not necessarily the right fit for everyone although obviously very useful for some. I think I might fall in the camp for whom it doesn't fit for whatever reason. I have booked a free consultation with a TMS coach with a view to maybe doing some pain reprocessing therapy to see if that might help.
 
PRT has strong appeal for anyone who resists (edit: whose TMS brain resists) doing the emotional work. I think that Alan Gordon started focusing on this aspect of TMS recovery because there are so many people who want a black-and-white, clearly defined, and non-emotional solution. There's certainly a lot of validity to the science behind it, and many of us here recognize that TMs recovery is a combination of emotional vulnerability and rational brain retraining.

However, back in the day, Alan used to be all about the emotions, and I got a TON of benefit from these two live chat/webinars that he did for us:
>>> Alan Gordon webinar June 9, 2012
>>> Alan Gordon July 21 webinar
 
Thanks for those links, Jan, I found them really helpful. I was already familiar with some bits that were included in the recovery program, but it was good to get the wider context/experience.

I tried to 'join in' as I was listening, and I feel like I better understand the process of connecting with emotions. I don't think anything changed for me as far as the theory goes, but as with most things, you need experience to understand the theory better.
 
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