New Program Day 5: Changing Your Brain

[fbcoach]

Yes I wonder too whether learning about 'pacing' cemented my pattern of associating activity with pain. I became scared to go over my time limit, as I had learned in the pain management programme that if I ventured too much into the 'pain zone' that my nerves would become even more sensitised and the pain would get worse. I too, find that I don't know until later or the next day if I have overdone things, and sometime the 'flare-ups' can last weeks. Hence the great fear of overdoing things and having even more pain. When my pain gets worse with these flare-ups, I find I can't handle it at all, and spend a lot of time crying. I can just barely handle the normal pain, but if it's any worse than that, then I can't cope. So my main fear is of making the pain worse (not damaging myself structurally - I wouldn't even care about that, to be honest, I just care about the pain!) I would also like any suggestions as to how to react to this type of fear, when I know from experience that if I go over my time limits (sitting, standing or walking) then I will feel even more pain than I currently do. For me this is always consistent, and it's not worse when I am stressed or feeling particular emotions – it's purely based on what I do physically (which is why I wonder whether I do have TMS, or maybe I have it as well as physical issues?) It would be great to achieve outcome independence, but realistically, I know what I'm like if the pain gets over a tolerable level, and not sure I could cope with this!

Hi Kat,
Before I post a reply, I want you to know where I am coming from. I am by no-means an authority on this, but I am just sharing my limited experience. Long story-short....I am a 58 yr old male and have been a competitive athlete most of my life. In 92' I broke my neck in a Football accident. Since then, I have had every type of therapy, surgery, drug regimen etc. One of my biggest fears is overtraining (doing too much). I have been able to overcome this somewhat by gradually doing a little more over the last year. I wasn't afraid of heavy lifting, but by performing it too often. Eventually I proved to myself that I can do much more heavy lifting than I thought possible. It was thru trial-and-error, but it has worked. I am by no-means pain-free, but my fear of over-doing it has diminished somewhat. It takes a lot of courage to try, but I think we all have this inside of us. I wish you well in your journey.

 

[karinabrown]

Hi Alan,

Sitting here on the other side of the world reading your program en reading the replies from all the people with pain like me out there .. its great and i really think something really good is being created here.

Been on this forum for some time but this program really is a great new tool : Thank you so much for taking the time and all your effort !

And to Christy : Thanks too : you opened one of my eyes at least : always thought that truelly being cured' would mean : zero pain and never again : you pointed out to me that its Okay if sometimes a little 'twist' arises ..which means i can aim a little lower too ..
I am still learning .. and still working on it
Thanks for this great website and thanks for everone willing to share their stories.

Karina.

 

[caligirlgonegreen]

Alan- I love your approach, great series. As a layman I've coached a lot of pain sufferers over the years and one thing that makes them reject the Sarno approach is if they think he's saying "the pain is all in my head." I try to slay that notion by quoting Dr. Sarno who said TMS sufferers have some of the worst pain he'd ever seen in any kind of patient. You aren't saying the pain is all in the head, are you? Steve

I like to think of it like this: The pain isn't IN your head, but rather it's coming FROM your head. I hope that helps you.

 

[caligirlgonegreen]

You (and your wife) may find Yin Yoga more appealing. It is sometimes called Serenity Yoga because it induces such calm and peace and is so gentle and passive you can practice some poses in bed. There's no need to do routines, one pose is enough as it works very deeply. My hubby has Parkinson's and is not as fit or flexible as he would like to be yet he does his own version during the night when his body is at its most recalcitrant.

The most beautiful aspect of Yin is the way it profoundly calms the nervous system. I find Shavasana and meditation a breeze after a Yin session. My body naturally wants to assimate the goodness and my mind is serene.

Here is a link to the YouTube channel of the gorgeous soul I follow:

I've been doing her courses and following her YouTube channel for a couple of years now and I credit it with a large measure of my healing.

Plum x

Edit: Here's the link to the Yin Yoga part of Kassandra's channel:

Yin Yoga Classes - All levels:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW0v0k7UCVrmK5WvoJMCAof0LJxuQXqxk (Yin Yoga Classes - All levels - YouTube)

Thank you for this link, Plum!

 

[shmps]

I still have a question on destructive thoughts.. Catch the fear thoughts, but what do you do with them. And when so many come one after another and keep going on, how do you snap yourself out of it to be able to notice it than experience it specially if its related to a current situation in life.

do you do somatic tracking, cognitive soothing ? what when you notice the spiral of fear thoughts increasing and turning into a tornado. For me its fear thoughts related to people than pain itself.

 

[Alan Gordon LCSW]

I still have a question on destructive thoughts.. Catch the fear thoughts, but what do you do with them. And when so many come one after another and keep going on, how do you snap yourself out of it to be able to notice it than experience it specially if its related to a current situation in life.

do you do somatic tracking, cognitive soothing ? what when you notice the spiral of fear thoughts increasing and turning into a tornado. For me its fear thoughts related to people than pain itself.

I look at persistent fear thoughts as nothing more than an indication that your primitive brain is feeling unsafe.

You don't need to necessarily snap yourself out of it, you just want to attend to yourself. If the fear thoughts stop, great. If they keep going, that's okay too.

It's a long term strategy. Over time, the brain has the capacity to learn a feeling of safety.

With regard to which intervention to use, you can use cognitive soothing, somatic tracking, or both at the same time. It's a matter of whatever feels right for you.

 

[shmps]

Thanks Alan!

 

[shmps]

I look at persistent fear thoughts as nothing more than an indication that your primitive brain is feeling unsafe.

You don't need to necessarily snap yourself out of it, you just want to attend to yourself. If the fear thoughts stop, great. If they keep going, that's okay too.

It's a long term strategy. Over time, the brain has the capacity to learn a feeling of safety.

With regard to which intervention to use, you can use cognitive soothing, somatic tracking, or both at the same time. It's a matter of whatever feels right for you.

ALAN's POST on Another Thread:
"The purpose of mindfulness is to hone the ability to watch the thoughts, etc. and not get pulled in to the emotional response to the thought.

For example, let's say you have the thought, "My symptoms are never going to go away." The typical emotional reaction to that thought is fear, and the typical physical response to that is anxiety.

If you're practicing mindfulness meditation and that same thought comes up, the goal is to say to yourself, "Oh, there's that thought again," and then return your attention to the breath. So essentially you're watching the activity of your mind, and intervening before you have the emotional reaction or the physical response."


Alan, I found this post of yours someplace else but based on this what I understood from your previous reply is that, we want to reach a place where we don't give fear thoughts (pain related or not) any emotional reaction. That is when we can say our primitive brain FEELS SAFE?

 

[adria]

Hi everyone! Just wanted to drop in and let you all know that I love reading through your comments on this program as it rolls out. I'll be checking in on this post throughout the day, and am happy to answer any questions you might have about outcome independence, fear, or my TMS work in general.

Hi Christie
I would like to know if you do skype consultations and if so how much are they.

 

[adria]

With regard to which intervention to use, you can use cognitive soothing, somatic tracking, or both at the same time. It's a matter of whatever feels right for you.

Where can i find out about these interventions

 

[SebastianM]

Me too! The hardest time of day for me is when i wake up and am lying in bed. That's when my Eeyore kicks in. The first thing my brain does is scan my body and take pain inventory: "Where is the pain today? Is it still in my shoulders? Yup, well maybe I really do need a new bed. Or is it just in my head? What if I get the expensive new bed and my shoulders still hurt? How are my feet? Oh darn it, they still hurt too. Are they going to hurt when I step out of bed? Will it be better or worse than yesterday? Do my fingers still hurt? Let me just push on this one to test if the pain is still there. Darn it! They still hurt too." Then I scold my brain, knowing that that type of fear focus is not helpful. But I can't seem to turn the darn loop off! Then my Tigger kicks in and I get out of bed. My feet hurt on and off throughout the day but I push through it, my shoulders ease up with my yoga, and I try to ignore my 2 fingers as I bounce about my day. The pain in those 3 places never completely goes away but I just try to ignore it. What I would really, really, really like is to wake up in the morning and NOT automatically scan for pain. This is the habit or pattern I want to break.

100% me .

I Wish u the best to reach this State... I also try to wake up without scanning! That would be great

 

[Livinginhope]

So today, after taking a new supplement for candida, I awoke with raging stomach pains, nauseous and unable to do anything. Is there any surprise that my original pain for coming to this site seems to be receding and that I am due to go to a traditional ortho doc on Monday to see if there is any structural problem? I do believe that this supplement did not agree with me, but not to this extent.

 

[Hpsage721]

Alan,
I have a question regarding pelvic pain. I have spoken to you and Dr. Schubiner over the phone and via email. I even had sessions at your practice with one of your therapists. Many of us who have pelvic pain, pn, or cpps, have pain when sitting. The longer we sit the worse the pain gets. Starts off ok in the morning and progressively gets worse as the day goes on. Now, in the recording with Christi you say to her if it was a structural issue her thumbs would hurt more the longer she typed. So, this is the biggest hurdle for me. Thinking how can it not be structural because when I stand up, the intensity of the pain diminishes tremendously? I know that there are people with pelvic pain who have gotten over this hurdle and want to know what did it for them? I've had anxiety, tmj, back pain, etc and have dealt with them. However this pelvic pain is a real bear because it's so conditioned and in the worst possible area. I would appreciate your feedback and also anyone else that is familiar with pelvic pain. Thanks.

 

[Hpsage721]

Hi everyone! Just wanted to drop in and let you all know that I love reading through your comments on this program as it rolls out. I'll be checking in on this post throughout the day, and am happy to answer any questions you might have about outcome independence, fear, or my TMS work in general.

Christie,
I have a question regarding pelvic pain. I have spoken to Alan and Dr. Schubiner over the phone and via email. I even had sessions at your practice with one of your therapists. Many of us who have pelvic pain, pn, or cpps, have pain when sitting. The longer we sit the worse the pain gets. Starts off ok in the morning and progressively gets worse as the day goes on. Now, in the recording with Alan he says to her if it was a structural issue her thumbs would hurt more the longer she typed. So, this is the biggest hurdle for me. Thinking how can it not be structural because when I stand up, the intensity of the pain diminishestremendously? I know that there are people with pelvic pain who have gotten over this hurdle and want to know what did it for them? I've had anxiety, tmj, back pain, etc and have dealt with them. However this pelvic pain is a real bearbecause it's so conditioned and in the worstpossible area. I would appreciate your feedbackand also anyone else that is familiar with pelvic.. thanks

 

[kkcarlton]

I have a question about on-going pain although I am not in fear. I came to this forum due to back pain. However, sometime end of May I started having pain in my right heel when I walk/run. As soon as it started I figured it was due to an old neural pathway since I had this same pain in the 90s (and was told to stop running). So I just keep on walking, jumping rope, running, etc. and every time I do the pain gets worse and then improves after a day or two. Because I have been preoccupied with outcome independence for the back stuff, I have not paid any attention to my heel. I don't think about it, worry about it, I don't fear it because it's not horrible, I don't pay attention to how long it takes for pain to set in when I do walk, actually, I pretty much forget about it until it starts hurting again. Despite all of this it is still here. Am I expecting too much? I figured since I am not concerned or preoccupied with it that it should have improved by now.

Thank you...

 

[Alan Gordon LCSW]

The longer we sit the worse the pain gets. Starts off ok in the morning and progressively gets worse as the day goes on. Now, in the recording with Christi you say to her if it was a structural issue her thumbs would hurt more the longer she typed. So, this is the biggest hurdle for me. Thinking how can it not be structural because when I stand up, the intensity of the pain diminishes tremendously?

For most people, the pain is very consistent. The longer you sit, the worse the pain gets...when you stop sitting, the pain starts decreasing, etc. Although having an inconsistency can be more evidence that it isn't structural, having no inconsistencies certainly isn't evidence that it is structural.

I have a question about on-going pain although I am not in fear. I came to this forum due to back pain. However, sometime end of May I started having pain in my right heel when I walk/run. As soon as it started I figured it was due to an old neural pathway since I had this same pain in the 90s (and was told to stop running). So I just keep on walking, jumping rope, running, etc. and every time I do the pain gets worse and then improves after a day or two. Because I have been preoccupied with outcome independence for the back stuff, I have not paid any attention to my heel. I don't think about it, worry about it, I don't fear it because it's not horrible, I don't pay attention to how long it takes for pain to set in when I do walk, actually, I pretty much forget about it until it starts hurting again. Despite all of this it is still here. Am I expecting too much? I figured since I am not concerned or preoccupied with it that it should have improved by now.

Great question. It's not about preventing the pain from coming on, it's about changing the way you respond when it does. When it does come back, how do you respond? If you are literally indifferent and the pain persists, I'm guessing there may be some doubt over whether there's anything structurally wrong with you. It's always a good idea to consult with a TMS physician to A.) rule out physically causes, and B.) confirm to the primitive part of your brain that it's not physically caused. It can serve as both a physical and psychological intervention.

 

[kkcarlton]

OK so far so good, but if a pain patient's back hurts you do not (or do you) try to convince them that the pain is all in his/her head?

I am not a therapist but thought I would share my experience talking to people with pain. I have found that the wording I use is important. If I tell someone their pain is all in their head, without explaining further, the person usually has a negative reaction to what I am saying. So if I am talking to someone with pain, I usually don't even say that the pain is in the head. I just try to explain (as best as I can) how pain and the brain works. The story about the construction worker with the nail through his boot really helps, too.

 

[kkcarlton]

Great question. It's not about preventing the pain from coming on, it's about changing the way you respond when it does. When it does come back, how do you respond? If you are literally indifferent and the pain persists, I'm guessing there may be some doubt over whether there's anything structurally wrong with you. It's always a good idea to consult with a TMS physician to A.) rule out physically causes, and B.) confirm to the primitive part of your brain that it's not physically caused. It can serve as both a physical and psychological intervention.

Hi Alan, thank you for your response and all the time and effort you have put into this program and helping people. It is very, very much appreciated. With the heel pain, I really don't even think about it or try to prevent it from coming on. The other symptoms (back pain, fatigue) are pretty overwhelming right now, and I am working on outcome independence, etc. on those, so that I don't even think about the heel pain until it starts to hurt. I did see Dr. Schubiner who felt that it was most likely due to TMS. He asked if I had any x-rays, which I didn't, but then said that even if it's a heel spur it shouldn't cause pain. So maybe there is still some lingering doubt about the cause of the pain. Thank you again!!

 

[Phyldancer]

Christi's audio was so helpful. I've been struggling with knee pain in one leg for 20 years and have favored the left leg, so much so that my right thigh is atrophied from lack of use! I've been slowly building up strength again in the right leg but every day struggle with unpredictable knee pain. Some days it hurts like hell just to lift my leg off the gas pedal and other days I can practice squats. I've spent the last hour or so testing my right leg (straightening and bending from a chair). At first it was killing me and now I feel no pain. I tried it 15 minutes later and pain again. Waited...no pain. Hard to know what my brain is doing but nice to know there is change!

 

[Ko'olina27]

I read this last night and when I read the Winnie the Pooh quote at the end it gave me an extra boost of confidence. I just happen to have it hanging on my wall! I didn't even know it was from Winnie the Pooh. Now this poster will be an extra reminder that I will not always be afraid!