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Can you improve without 100% belief?
- Thread starter zero76
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JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
I don't believe that I have to limit myself to any one definition of mind-body awareness/theory/practice. For me, Dr. Sarno's brilliant theories were only a starting point. My most alarming symptoms were not pain, but what he eventually called "TMS equivalents". I spent decades (even as a child) being told by doctors that there didn't seem to be anything wrong with me. Each time, I would relax, and the symptom in question would go away - only to be replaced by something else. And there were the ongoing symptoms as well, which came and went over the years, including frequent digestive upsets, headaches, chronic neck pain after a skiing accident, neuro symptoms, and dizziness. I've seen MDs and PTs for the dizziness, MDs for heart palpitations and stomach problems, and a chiro for years for the neck pain.
My first book was The Divided Mind, which turned my life around, but the next two books that helped me to change my life were "Hope & Help for Your Nerves" by Dr. Claire Weekes (who died in her 90s in the 90s so I doubt she even knew about Dr. Sarno) and "When the Body Says No" by Dr. Gabor Mate, who doesn't mention Dr. Sarno in that book, although I'm sure he's heard of him.
Dr. Mate blew my mind. I DO believe Dr. Mate when he says that the development of cancer requires a perfect storm: 1) a genetic predisposition, 2) environmental exposure, AND 3) long-term weakness of the immune system due to repressed emotional stress.
I would also recommend The Anatomy of Hope by Dr. Jerome Groopman. And look into the research that is actually being done on the power of the placebo effect (this excites me a LOT because I believe in the placebo effect, and I use it on myself quite successfully, I think).
You have to understand and believe that your brain is in control of every physiological process in your body before you can help your brain change what it is doing to you. I've done it, but it's not easy. And my brain still comes up with new symptoms. It's not always easy to banish them, because (as today's neuroscientists tell us) we are still wired to think negatively, to constantly be scanning the horizon for danger. Our thoughts are always heading for the negative, and it's really really hard to recognize that and turn them off. There have been some excellent replies on this thread about what works for different people. The key word being different!
Honestly, this stuff goes WAY beyond the excellent groundwork laid for us by Dr. Sarno. The phrase "TMS" is useful, but it doesn't even begin to encompass the possibilities and the potential for self-healing.
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riv44
Well known member
riv44
Well known member
Jan, I am so glad you posted! As I review my family history and my own history, I am placing all of this into the context of what I understand about family history, trauma, the brain/mind and internalized narratives. A lot comes together for me. The "TMS" framework and first reading of Sarno pulled me out of the mire of pain. I am reconstructing my sense of self, which is a good thing to do before I turn 60. My mother died when she was 60, after years of illnesses. I carry that body memory and internalized her narrative, but I think I can be free to have a different kind of aging.
P.S. Myneck still hurts. I'm not going to worry too much about it.
P.S. Myneck still hurts. I'm not going to worry too much about it.
Since beliefs are stored in the unconscious mind, one cannot simply just accept and say they believe in TMS 100% or know exactly how much belief they have.
I believe for a mind body connection to be made and to increase belief, one must learn, accept and believe on a higher conscious level on a repeated basis. Or until the thought becomes second nature and over rides any preconditioning. Only then will change be possible.
I believe for a mind body connection to be made and to increase belief, one must learn, accept and believe on a higher conscious level on a repeated basis. Or until the thought becomes second nature and over rides any preconditioning. Only then will change be possible.
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
Nicely put, Mike. I've bookmarked it!
kchung
New Member
I think I believe I have tms and have been following Dr Sarnos advice, namely, I do physical exercise everyday: jogging, swimming, cycling etc. My sciatica is a little more than 12 months old, and I consider myself about 80% healed. However, I remain skeptical of the underlying theory, namely, the Freudian stuff, childhood darkness etc. I have been searching my soul to find anything in my history but failed to identify anything. I also have very little stress at this point of my life as a retiree. So why didn't I develop TMS when I went through my most stressful years, like when I went through a painful divorce, or when I lost my job with two young kids to feed and a big mortgage? I am at the best time and most enjoyable years of my life. Why do I get TMS now? Perhaps it's this skeptism that stop me from healing 100%?
Hang in there, you don't have to find out exactly what your repressing. Sarno even said it himself it's fruitless to try and find the one thing, you may never find it.
It's about not trying to heal, which is hard for tmsers. We feel we always have to do something. We can't just let life unfold, we want control. Try letting go and trust what sarno has said. Your body is ok, you are just reacting from repressed emotions.
If you can't believe what sarno says, it may be hard to to fully heal. Doubt in the diagnosis is crucial to overcome. Belief is crucial in life, has a bigger impact on many things. Maybe try going to see s tms doctor, if your still skeptical.
Goodluck, keep chugging along and go have fun. Let go and be free.
Ryan
Tennis Tom
Beloved Grand Eagle
This ^
kchung
New Member
Thank you Ryan and Tom. Now, forgive me if I still don't get it. You don't have to find out exactly what you are repressing, but you have to "admit" or "realize" that you are repressing something, right? For arguments sake, what if I cannot feel I am "repressing" anything. What if I feel I am living very happily, no stress, no anger, nothing negative, and already living in complete bliss? I know I am sounding condescending and phony. But what if that is exactly how I feel.
To be a 100% believer, I need to admit I am wrong about myself, or I do not know enough about myself, or I must be deceiving myself? Under my happy self, I must have a lot of stress, anger, and childhood darkness, that I have been hiding?
My biggest worry right now is I still failed to kill all the dandelions in my yard after spending $50 on "Weed-Be-Gone", and I was angry watching Jon Snow stabbed in the last episode of Game of Thrones. I am a terribly sloppy person, but in fact must be a perfectionist in disguise because I am anxious in trying to improve my wife's orgasms. So perhaps I really am not myself. Should I begin to feel miserable about myself to be 100% in?
To be a 100% believer, I need to admit I am wrong about myself, or I do not know enough about myself, or I must be deceiving myself? Under my happy self, I must have a lot of stress, anger, and childhood darkness, that I have been hiding?
My biggest worry right now is I still failed to kill all the dandelions in my yard after spending $50 on "Weed-Be-Gone", and I was angry watching Jon Snow stabbed in the last episode of Game of Thrones. I am a terribly sloppy person, but in fact must be a perfectionist in disguise because I am anxious in trying to improve my wife's orgasms. So perhaps I really am not myself. Should I begin to feel miserable about myself to be 100% in?
Tennis Tom
Beloved Grand Eagle
As long as you are searching for reasons TMS won't work for you--it won't work for you--what you resist will persist. You say you are living in 1oo% "complete bliss", then why are you here?
The best thing you can do is to stop trying to nit-pick the Good Doctor's theory and curl up with his books until you fully understand what he said. All your questions will be answered IN THE BOOKS--there are holes in your understanding of TMS theory.
Read slowly, carefully, thoughtfully--and assume the gremlin will try be trying to gloss over the pieces of the TMS puzzle that apply to you.
G'luck!
tt
P. S. Look at the Rahe-Holmes list of life stressors that apply to you--there's your science!
P.P.S. As I'm writing this I am having intense pain in my right shoulder, I've had bouts of it before several times over the years and it's TMS. It's telling me to get out there and jump in the pool to warm-up for my 11:30 tennis. Prior to TMS Knowledge Therapy, I'd be off to the neuro or the ortho for a "frozen shoulder" pinched nerve C-6/C-7 DX, prescribed quack traction for a month--"Or I'll be seeing you for surgery". Instead I'll just wait it out, keep tossing the ball, and doing the back-stroke.
The best thing you can do is to stop trying to nit-pick the Good Doctor's theory and curl up with his books until you fully understand what he said. All your questions will be answered IN THE BOOKS--there are holes in your understanding of TMS theory.
Read slowly, carefully, thoughtfully--and assume the gremlin will try be trying to gloss over the pieces of the TMS puzzle that apply to you.
G'luck!
tt
P. S. Look at the Rahe-Holmes list of life stressors that apply to you--there's your science!
P.P.S. As I'm writing this I am having intense pain in my right shoulder, I've had bouts of it before several times over the years and it's TMS. It's telling me to get out there and jump in the pool to warm-up for my 11:30 tennis. Prior to TMS Knowledge Therapy, I'd be off to the neuro or the ortho for a "frozen shoulder" pinched nerve C-6/C-7 DX, prescribed quack traction for a month--"Or I'll be seeing you for surgery". Instead I'll just wait it out, keep tossing the ball, and doing the back-stroke.
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riv44
Well known member
K-chung,
Skepticism is healthy. You have your gut. What I believe is that I have symptoms over time that are consistent with a diagnosis of TMS. No diagnosis is an absolute, because diagnoses are disputaed constructs. However, for me, the shoe fit, so I wore it back to the gym.
Freudian theories of repression are ONE approach to psychological understanding.There are approaches that emphasize the impact of relationships and society, rather repressed Oedipal rage, on the development of self. Some emphasize cognition and conditioning. I always include a geneology perspective in my clinical work with others.
Being an obsessive over-thinker, which may be a kind of TMS of the brain, the journaling did not help me as much as getting back to the gym. i
What I can get behind believing 100% is that I need not be afraid of movement. And that there is nothing wrong with me. And this is what I hope will be true to you soon.
Skepticism is healthy. You have your gut. What I believe is that I have symptoms over time that are consistent with a diagnosis of TMS. No diagnosis is an absolute, because diagnoses are disputaed constructs. However, for me, the shoe fit, so I wore it back to the gym.
Freudian theories of repression are ONE approach to psychological understanding.There are approaches that emphasize the impact of relationships and society, rather repressed Oedipal rage, on the development of self. Some emphasize cognition and conditioning. I always include a geneology perspective in my clinical work with others.
Being an obsessive over-thinker, which may be a kind of TMS of the brain, the journaling did not help me as much as getting back to the gym. i
What I can get behind believing 100% is that I need not be afraid of movement. And that there is nothing wrong with me. And this is what I hope will be true to you soon.
Firstly, thanks for spoiling Game of Thrones for me. Damn you... I am now feeling my TMS symptoms at an all time high. 
I don't believe anyone in the world is truly happy. What we think on a conscious level v our beliefs on an unconscious level will always vary and hence we feel this conflict within our body.
Try not to ascertain exactly what is effecting you, it's highly likely you will never find it. But try and observe your emotions / thoughts and any pain sensations and replace any unclean thoughts with positive thoughts.
Like I stressed earlier, you will be able to gauge how you feel on a conscious level. But belief is on an unconscious level, you will not be able to establish how much you believe, it will just happen through knowledge and understanding and cementing these ideas in your unconcinciousness. Eventually that belief will transform your thinking on a deeper level and your physiological being
Please be gentle with yourself on this journey as obsessing can trigger the intensity and severity of symptoms.
I don't believe anyone in the world is truly happy. What we think on a conscious level v our beliefs on an unconscious level will always vary and hence we feel this conflict within our body.
Try not to ascertain exactly what is effecting you, it's highly likely you will never find it. But try and observe your emotions / thoughts and any pain sensations and replace any unclean thoughts with positive thoughts.
Like I stressed earlier, you will be able to gauge how you feel on a conscious level. But belief is on an unconscious level, you will not be able to establish how much you believe, it will just happen through knowledge and understanding and cementing these ideas in your unconcinciousness. Eventually that belief will transform your thinking on a deeper level and your physiological being
Please be gentle with yourself on this journey as obsessing can trigger the intensity and severity of symptoms.
wonderwoman
Peer Supporter
I had back and leg pain for 4 years and was confined to the house. If I left the house, I needed a wheel chair. I am pain-free now and do anything that my heart desires.
I found the answer for me was to accept that my pain was 100% due to psychological issues. This belief took a year before I made a full recovery. The more confidence I had in the belief that this was due to psychological issues, the faster was my recovery. I also found that I was a perfectionist and a goodist. I could not accept the shadow side of my self, because I thought it was a bad part of my person. Once I accepted and honored the shadow side of myself, my recovery became a miracle. One of the best days of my life was the look on my family doctor when he asked me what I did to make a full recovery. Here is the patient teaching the doctor.
I found the answer for me was to accept that my pain was 100% due to psychological issues. This belief took a year before I made a full recovery. The more confidence I had in the belief that this was due to psychological issues, the faster was my recovery. I also found that I was a perfectionist and a goodist. I could not accept the shadow side of my self, because I thought it was a bad part of my person. Once I accepted and honored the shadow side of myself, my recovery became a miracle. One of the best days of my life was the look on my family doctor when he asked me what I did to make a full recovery. Here is the patient teaching the doctor.
kchung
New Member
Tom, you are right. I was just joking. I have read Sarno's "Healing Back Pain" twice, and Sopher's "To be or Not to be In Pain" once. Perhaps I will pick up another good book. Thanks for the wise words.
Yes, Riv44, I feel the same. I feel like an obsessive over-thinker myself, and I also dislike journaling. I am thinking too much but "feeling" too little.
Mike, Jon was stabbed at least two months ago, so you are really behind. You have some catching up
Thank you all for the warm and wise suggestions. I think I am very firm in believing I have TMS. That part (the diagnosis) is fine after several months struggling with various treatments/therapies and remained in pain. That was in the past. After reading Sarno the second time in January, I finally gave up all the therapies and returned to the gym and pool. I spend two hours everyday there, starting slowly and now I can swim 30 minutes, jog 30 minutes and cycle for 30 minutes. I feel I am full of energy and am healthier than before I had TMS a year ago. There was a breakthrough about 3 months ago when I finally gave up on using the Nordic poles prescribed by one of the therapists, and stop using ibuprofen completely. However, I can only get to the point I am which I consider myself about 75-80% recovered. I am still not able to do certain things and I am still have pain from time to time. The pain has spread from my leg to my arm, even it is a lot more bearable now. I will continue of course like many of you. One thing I am grateful is that I feel I have come out stronger and healthier. Perhaps TMS is a good thing to have after all, haha.
Ken
IndiMarshall
Well known member
Hi Wonderwoman it will great to hear your success story if you can find time to write up.
kchung
New Member
Tom, I had a careful look at the stressor inventory, and no matter how hard I tried, I can never score higher than 100. In fact almost none of he items applies to me. I cannot find one that says "filling out your income tax return", "clean toilet bows every week", or "Dandelions in garden", because these are my only stressors.