I'm brand new to the concept of TMS after 20 years of chronic back pain/alignment issues. I've tried prolo,, endless rounds of PT, accupuncture, and endless osteopathic manipulations and have been told my loose ligaments are the root of my hypermobility. My MD usually finds sacral torsion and in/out flares. My paraspinals are always ropey, much worse on the right, often pulling ribs out of alignment, too. I apparently had a slow-to-develop hip as a baby/toddler and walked late but didn't begin having symptoms until adolescence. Have never had xrays, weirdly enough, only MRIs, and wonder if there may be a structural problem. I am realizing that I should get xrays, probably. But I am desperate and exhausted by the daily pain and worry about pain I've been living with, that seems to be getting worse over time. I would LOVE for TMS to be the underlying cause of my pain. Grateful for any thoughts or feedback folks might have about this. Thanks!
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Can hypermobility/loose ligaments constitute a structural problem that precludes a TMS root cause?
- Thread starter taywald
- Start date
David88
Well known member
Loose ligaments and hypermobility don't sound like causes of pain in themselves.
It sounds like you're focused on pain, diagnoses, treatment, and the like, which suggests TMS at work.
Does the description of a TMS personality seem to apply to you? Do you have unrealistic expectations for yourself? Are you comfortable acknowledging and expressing feelings? Do you take adequate care of yourself, or do you put others first too much? These are all questions that TMS distracts us from.
It sounds like you're focused on pain, diagnoses, treatment, and the like, which suggests TMS at work.
Does the description of a TMS personality seem to apply to you? Do you have unrealistic expectations for yourself? Are you comfortable acknowledging and expressing feelings? Do you take adequate care of yourself, or do you put others first too much? These are all questions that TMS distracts us from.
Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)
Beloved Grand Eagle
Hi, taywald. You do sound like you spend a lot of time thinking and worrying about pain. It's understandable after 20 years of it, but don't give up hope of healing. I urge you to start the Structured Educational Program which is free in the subforum of this web site. It will ask you to do some short things each day and suggest you start journaling about repressed emotions or harmful personality traits such as perfectionism and "goodism," trying to please everyone and have them like you. If MRIs have not shown any structural problems, it looks to me like your symptoms are from TMS emotions. You'll find them and heal. Keep positive. With TMS belief, you will be healthier and happier than you ever imagined.
Blossom
New Member
Hi Taywald
I too have hypermobility, it didn't always cause me pain so I am also treating it as TMS and following the SEP. I know of people who have been fine most of their life with hypermobility and then been in a car accident and suddenly they are debilitated by their loose joints.
Best of luck to you
I too have hypermobility, it didn't always cause me pain so I am also treating it as TMS and following the SEP. I know of people who have been fine most of their life with hypermobility and then been in a car accident and suddenly they are debilitated by their loose joints.
Best of luck to you
Andy Bayliss
TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle
Hi taywald,
I don't know about hypermobility, exactly what that means. I have a friend who has been in pain all his life, did some genetic testing and found he had
Ellhors Danlos Syndrome
You might do some research on this.
Andy B.
I don't know about hypermobility, exactly what that means. I have a friend who has been in pain all his life, did some genetic testing and found he had
Ellhors Danlos Syndrome
You might do some research on this.
Andy B.
Crissyxox
Peer Supporter
Over a year ago now I was "diagnosed" with hypermobile ligaments and underwent prolotherapy. I then had imaging and it was re diagnosed as a herniated disc as well. The truth is the pain isn't coming from either diagnosis. My pain is caused by tms. I have developed a very powerful system of thoughts and neural pathways to trick my brain into thinking I have structural issues causing pain. I know this for sure because I can control (or let it run loose!) my pain level to be manageable through my thinking. But it takes soooooo much work. It gets easier as you retrain your brain but give yourself a chance and check out the symptomology of tms. Good luck to you.
AnnaSchweitzer
Peer Supporter
Andy I just had a conversation with dr schubiner today and he told me that he downs think loose joints (ehlers danlos syndrome) causes pain in itself.... I also have had more pain compound lately and had been looking for the hypermobility/EDS cause... is your friend still in pain?
Un0wut2du
Peer Supporter
I didn't even know what hyper mobility was until I just looked it up. As a kid we called it "double-jointed." Looks to me likes its a TOTALLY NORMAL joint position for your genetic tree. I have a thumb that does this and never once caused me pain. It also looks like something a practitioner would "diagnose" as a cause for pain when that practitioner has absolutely no idea what to tell a person who has pain. Said practitioner would also probably have no idea what TMS was. Loose ligaments? This too sounds like someone telling you that 65,000 years of evolution someone how "got it wrong." I'm not a doctor but I have solved many 'diagnosed defects" by doing the TMS work and working through psychological issues. Our medical people have a terrible condition themselves. They don't really know what it going on and they scare us. Then TMS gets worse. You are now on the right path.
Gigalos
Beloved Grand Eagle
I am moderately hypermobile in my knees, elbows and wrists. In my case only the fear that came along with that fact had anything to do with symptoms.
I learned to be more practical about hyper-mobility. The only thing I need to be aware of is that I don't over-stretch my knees during physical workout, because suddenly putting a large force on a joint that is over-stretched (slightly bent the wrong way) can definitely cause damage to ligaments, cartilage and/or muscles. Many people tend to 'lock their joints' when they are standing, because it allows them to rely less on their muscles, in other words it saves them energy. When you look at a line of people waiting, you can easily pick out the hyper-mobile people, because they often lock their knees in an over-stretched position; especially women tend to do this, hyper-mobility in men is probably less common and less severe. Therefore when you are hyper-mobile, you should be aware of this risk during sports. Aware!!, not Afraid!! I myself lost the functionality of my cruciate ligament, because somebody jumped on my back when my knee was over-rotated. Now when my legs get tired I just use a brace to protect my 'bad' knee from over-stretching or twisting. For the rest I learned myself to always have my knees straight or bent just a little bit (in the right direction), it has become second nature and I don't really have to think about it nowadays.
But again, in my case it isn't the cause of chronic pain. I solved all that the TMS-way....
I learned to be more practical about hyper-mobility. The only thing I need to be aware of is that I don't over-stretch my knees during physical workout, because suddenly putting a large force on a joint that is over-stretched (slightly bent the wrong way) can definitely cause damage to ligaments, cartilage and/or muscles. Many people tend to 'lock their joints' when they are standing, because it allows them to rely less on their muscles, in other words it saves them energy. When you look at a line of people waiting, you can easily pick out the hyper-mobile people, because they often lock their knees in an over-stretched position; especially women tend to do this, hyper-mobility in men is probably less common and less severe. Therefore when you are hyper-mobile, you should be aware of this risk during sports. Aware!!, not Afraid!! I myself lost the functionality of my cruciate ligament, because somebody jumped on my back when my knee was over-rotated. Now when my legs get tired I just use a brace to protect my 'bad' knee from over-stretching or twisting. For the rest I learned myself to always have my knees straight or bent just a little bit (in the right direction), it has become second nature and I don't really have to think about it nowadays.
But again, in my case it isn't the cause of chronic pain. I solved all that the TMS-way....
Ftaghn!
Peer Supporter
So, some details on hypermobility:
- Most people who have hypermobility feel no pain. It's also very, very common.
- However, hypermobility is linked with a very sensitive central nervous system. This is believed to be the mechanism through which hypermobility is correlated with pain.
- Thus, hypermobility is linked to a lot of TMS style symptoms, from fatigue to skin symptoms.
So in common hypermobility, there usually is no damage at all. But as some of you may know, hypersensitive people are predisposed to TMS. In any case, it doesn't seem to have stopped people from healing at all. But it should make you aware of your overcharged central nervous system.
- Most people who have hypermobility feel no pain. It's also very, very common.
- However, hypermobility is linked with a very sensitive central nervous system. This is believed to be the mechanism through which hypermobility is correlated with pain.
- Thus, hypermobility is linked to a lot of TMS style symptoms, from fatigue to skin symptoms.
So in common hypermobility, there usually is no damage at all. But as some of you may know, hypersensitive people are predisposed to TMS. In any case, it doesn't seem to have stopped people from healing at all. But it should make you aware of your overcharged central nervous system.
MindBodyPT
Beloved Grand Eagle
Good points, everyone above! I definitely don't think hypermobility causes pain in and of itself. I have a good friend with Ehlers Danlos (EDS) and heres what I think- it does make you more susceptible to structural injury like dislocations (she has dislocated her patella and shoulder a few times). These would obviously cause some pain in most people. But during the times you don't have any injuries theres no reason you'd be in pain just from loose joints or tissue. TMS pain can definitely arise from these injuries, though, especially in someone who doesn't know about TMS and is convinced "something is wrong" with their body due to the EDS.