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Can chronic plantar fasciitis be TMS

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Forest, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    I was trolling the old wetpaint wiki today and found the following great post. The first two posts really stood out to me, so I thought I would repost them here. It can always be hard to understand the role that being active can have on our symptoms. My general understand is that most structural issues should heal (because that is what the body does) in no more then 3 months. After that TMS is most likely the cause. Anyways here are a couple of the posts from the thread.

    I really liked what peg said here because it is a great reminder that structural issues should not last for 3 years. I also love what she said about how fearing our symptoms perpetuates them. For the rest of the thread check out http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/thread/...ntar+fasciitis+be+TMS??offset=0&maxResults=20
    Calum likes this.
  2. veronica73

    veronica73 Well known member

    I had plantar fasciatis for years. I actually didn't know it had a name until my roommate came down with it and was diagnosed by a doctor. Then when I saw a podiatrist for another issue I was diagnosed with plantar fasciatis.

    When I started working with Dr. Sarno's books, plantar fasciatis was the first thing to go (of all my pain issues, it bothered me the least).

    I do wonder about the structural issues because have flat feet and pronation which can be seen on X-rays...my TMS doctor did say I have a lot of "torsion" one leg but didn't think that would be causing any of the pain. I think it's kind of like the herniated disc/back pains--more of a coincidence.
  3. Pandamonium

    Pandamonium Well known member

    I have currently got Frozen Shoulder (post trauma) and apparently it can take up to 2 years to heal, jeez.
  4. quert

    quert Guest

    Dr. Sopher weighted in on this. Chapter 19 of his book, To Be or Not To Be... Pain Free is entitled "Feet" and begins as follows:
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  5. quert

    quert Guest

    I read a little bit more of Dr. Sopher's book and came across this great success story. It's in Chapter 19 and as follows:

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  6. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Just to cite an example from my own experience, I know a young woman in PT down where I do Pilates who has been diagnosed with plantar fasciitis and heel spurs. Let's call her Mandy (not her real name). She's about thirty, very pretty, bright and personable and an over-achiever who works testing software in a gaming start-up. Well, she took a fall bouldering on some little rocks at Joshua Tree a couple of years ago and sprained her ankle. Then, she had surgery to clean out some of the scar tissue, but it never stopped hurting. In fact, she was in therapy for an extended course of treatments consisting largely of massage followed by ice & electrical stimulation. No improvement. All the MRI shows are some anomalies, but no real reason for the ongoing pain syndrome. Mandy even knows about BMS from classes she's taken at SF State, but still continues to return to therapy in an endless, but fruitless quest to stop the pain. It seems to me that Mandy is trying to stand in two worlds at once: the physical PT and the psycho MBS, and that just doesn't work, just as Monty suggests. She feels better for a few days after a PT session and then the pain returns again. Obviously something else going on here. If you sprain your ankle in 2009, it shouldn't go on hurting and persist as ongoing foot pain two years later. The anomalies in Mandy's right foot have to be triggering the pain syndrome and making it persist. Of course, I'm not an MD and cannot diagnose such a condition, but I can see in the PT's face that he doesn't really know what to do either. I even once mention to Mandy that "it used to be backs" and now "it's started to be feet" and she nodded in agreement. Maybe what she really needs is a new BF and/or a new job? Dunno!
  7. Enrique

    Enrique Well known member

    MorComm.... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!
  8. Enrique

    Enrique Well known member

    Of course, I have to concur on this. PF is certainly TMS. I mean, chronic PF... While it's possible to injure the heel, the extended pain that happens must be TMS. Fortunately, I haven't had any PF since I found out about TMS. Before that, I would get it inevitably every time I started a running program.

    I have a cousin who's a classic TMSer (chronic worrier-type personality). He had symptoms of IBS and PF in addition to just generally being a hypochondriac. While suffering with really, really bad PF he was not able to work and went out on disability. He's a PG&E gas meter reader here in the Bay Area (SF) and walks a lot for his job. He's been doing this job for 15+ years so if anyone's feet should be acclimated to walking it should be him. But no, he gets PF... and the timing is extremely suspect and obvious to me.... right after the real estate bust and his 2 real estate "investments" go belly up and he loses a lot of money and he's stressed out about it all. I tell him about TMS and my own RSI story. He listens... but he doesn't really hear. Days, weeks, months pass and he is guided by his doc to get surgery (plantar release or something like that). I tell him not to do it, to seriously take the TMS route seriously. Again he ignores that and gets the surgery. Now he's complaining about a collapsed plantar and ongoing pain.

    You feel sorry for this, but again, you can lead the horse to water.... it's up to them to drink.
  9. dabatross

    dabatross Well known member

    interesting you brought this up forest. i got diagnosed with plantar fasciitis in 2005 and i tried every possible treatment you can do for it except surgery. i did the shock wave therapy the other guy mentioned in the post you quoted up there as well which can be pretty painful as its like a hammer hitting your foot... the idea behind that was to create more inflammation in the area so the body would recognize it as an injury and begin to heal it. i dont know of any other condition where you inflict more harm upon yourself so your body will heal but thats what they told me.

    anyhow the last treatment i did before i stopped was around late summer of last year. i went to the chiropractor and he said my arches were collapsing when i walked on them. not sure if this is true or not when he put my arch back in it did feel different when i walked on it for a tiny bit but it quickly went back to being in pain again. i went back to see him a second time and he said my arches had collapsed again.. i guess the only way to check the validity of his theory is to keep going to see him but dont have insurance right now.

    i dont have the classic PF symptom of pain in the morning when i get out of bed mine only happens when i walk on my feet for like 30-45 minutes and then it just starts hurting more and more until i stop walking on them. considering i tried everything in the book except for surgery and putting my arches back in like the chiropractor said, id say there is a really good chance its TMS especially since enrique had PF as well and TMS cured his.

    the really interesting thing about my plantar fasciitis was that it happened very suddenly which makes me believe its TMS. i had worked standing up jobs for 2 years (the job previous to the one where i developed the foot pain i worked on my feet for around 20-32 hours a week and i dont remember any foot pain issues) and then i got a job at fedex where i only worked 12 hours a week and thats when the pain started and it hasn't left since. that was 7 years ago so i guess i could try what the chiropractor said which was to come back, put the arches back into place, and then tape them up and provide support so they dont fall back down again and see if that works. if that doesn't work.. im 100% certain its TMS because there is nothing else to do for it.

    this was the original chronic pain that got me into researching online for many many hours for a number of years, joining message boards, reading about every possible article on plantar fasciitis etc. and then when i went to my new job of being a web designer the pain shifted to my eyes. i still get pain when i walk on my feet though for a little while i was just at the zoo yesterday and had the problem.
  10. dabatross

    dabatross Well known member

    veronica what was the other pain you have now besides the plantar fasciitis that you had previously?
  11. veronica73

    veronica73 Well known member

    Foot stuff? I had something called "posterior tibialis disease"--basically chronic tendinitis which was supposedly related to plantar fasciatis...but they both seem to be gone now.
  12. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    One summer working for Outward Bound, I hiked nearly 900 miles and ran three half-marathons. Not once did my feet hurt although it sure felt good to put them in a cold stream at the end of a hot, dusty day on the trail. But . . . and this is a big But, I was in the Paysaten Wilderness and the Three Sisters Wilderness in Washington State and Oregon without any contact with so-called civilization and the media. In other words, I only experienced "natural" stressors, like staying warm and dry in a storm and taking care of students when they got hurt - the same kind of stress our aboriginal ancestors dealt with for thousands if not millions of years and for which we are all biologically adapted. No headaches, no backaches, no foot pain, no knee pain, no, no, no. But I also didn't have any of the psychological stressors people assume are "normal" in society - no exposure to media, no worries about money, no conflicts with relatives, or confrontations with "office bulleys" at work.

    Enrique, I was wondering if anyone recorded any spike in MBS symptoms after the collapse of the housing bubble in 2007? People around the Bay Area definitely "got meaner", but I wonder about the frequency of back aches, head aches and other TMS pain symptoms? I've heard that the ERs were filled with people with imaginary complaints after 9/11 and the World Trade Center catastrophe. And I believe because the myth of American invulnerability was so challenged by the events of 9/11 that for many, many people their whole psychological and philosophic grounds were disturbed.
  13. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Enrique: Was thinking about your description of the onset of your cousin's PF symptoms last night and comparing them to the chronology of my own back pain episodes:

    "He's a PG&E gas meter reader here in the Bay Area (SF) and walks a lot for his job. He's been doing this job for 15+ years so if anyone's feet should be acclimated to walking it should be him. But no, he gets PF... and the timing is extremely suspect and obvious to me.... right after the real estate bust and his 2 real estate "investments" go belly up and he loses a lot of money and he's stressed out about it all. I tell him about TMS and my own RSI story. He listens... but he doesn't really hear."

    I noticed that I had a "herniated disk" in July 2001 six months after my mother's death, but coincident with my inheriting her house in an expensive area of the SF Peninsula. Well, 2001 is also exactly when the Dot.com bubble popped and I lost a lot of money on the market in telecom stocks at the same time that the cable test outfit I was contracting with went through a restructuring and drove me out the door. The old Marxist trinity: Capital, Consciousness, and Insecurity! Then, in 2007 I had a TMS relapse at exactly the same time that the housing market imploded and the value of my ritzy property plummeted. I don't think it was accidental that my TMS attacks coincided with two economic downturns, especially if I already had unmet dependency needs left over from my parents' conflicted relationship while I was growing up. No more mommie to protect me at the same time I confronted the capitalist system head-on. Sure glad now I didn't pour all my equity into a nice little spec house in Yuba City!
  14. Enrique

    Enrique Well known member

    MorComm, good observation. Now that you mention it I should thank my lucky stars that I found out about TMS in 2007. The years since then have been devastating (I should write that in ALL CAPS) to my personal net worth. Frankly, a lifetime of savings was wiped away, I lost my dream home AND my credit was ruined. BUT I also learned to be thankful for so much... Like my health for one. In 2007 I found out that my body was very, very resilient and strong. I was capable of more that i thought. In the midst of the darkness I was lead to discover a brilliant light. The light of PPD/TMS. Sounds kind of corny as I'm writing it, but that's how I perceive it.
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  15. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    It's like a friend of mine who basically has nothing but training: This summer at 55 y.o. he's going to be riding his new Specialized fiber bike up and down Tioga Pass again. How many other 55 year olds in the Silicon Valley are going to be enjoying themselves all summer in Tuolumne Meadows? Come to think of it, I was having a way better time when I was teaching freshman English at University of Denver and spending my impoverished summers wandering around the Rockies and the Sierra. All that stuff you think is so important and you're beating yourself up to hang on to, you discover, wasn't really that important anyway, just a bunch of added stress and resentment! On that note, I'm making a firm commitment to having a way good time this coming summer. Did a nice 25 mile bike ride yesterday in Portola Valley and, guess what?, I'm improving my times and not feeling as beat today. What the heck! What me worry?
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  16. happystar

    happystar Peer Supporter

    I was also diagnosed with Plantar Fascitiis and then neuropathy. I've had it for one year. I also have legs pain sometimes. The PT and orthotics are not really helping much. I will start the Structured program to get rid of my pain. I've had an extremely stressful year as I had to visit tons of doctors to rule out MS. My MRI one year ago showed spots, the dr. told me to do another one in a few months to see if anything changed. If not, it was nothing. I got it done last Monday and it showed not changed. I've been worrying about MS for a year now. On top of that, with all the blood tests, they found a protein in my blood that should not have been there and they sent me to the oncologist. I was freaking out! Thankfully it was probably a lab error as the oncologist did extensive testing and he said there is nothing. Of course all of this created massive stress in my life. Now I am a bit more relaxed and more able to accept the pain I have as TMS. Any advice will be great guys! Thank You!
  17. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Having so many tests done like that can really cause a lot of stress. I think one of the reasons TMS persists in people is that going to so many doctors creates so much fear, anxiety and stress. Having test after test after test done will definetely create fear and an idea that you are fragile, even if there is nothing wrong. From medical news to commericals, our society creates so much fear that we may have something really serious. I still remember how many things I avoided because of my fear. You really have to consume yourself with TMS knowledge to break this cycle of fear and anxiety.

    The quote from Dr. Sopher really stood out to me. The shoes we wear now offer so much support. It doesn't make sense that there are more cases of foot pain now then in the past. It is our fear that we can't do something, or that walking a certain way is going to hurt our feet that creates these symptoms. It is great to hear all of these stories of people overcoming PF with the TMS approach. Once you overcome the fear and gain confidence that it is TMS, you can begin to recover rapidly.
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  18. Graham

    Graham Newcomer

    I couldn't let this go. I'm a huge believer in TMS, but this one quote from Dr. Sopher's book makes me think he or she might be an idiot. Who ever heard of an ailment (aside from ADD) being "in vogue"? That is a ridiculous statement and one of the most offensive things I've read from someone who is supposed to be a supporter of those suffering from TMS. I'd like to say to Dr. Sopher, if I could, "Hey, Dr. Sopher, I'm not sure how old you are, but I was diagnosed with plantar fasciitis about 23 years ago. It only bothered me when I was on my feet a lot. It is bothering me again now 20 some odd years later...yes things are stressful...yes I think that it could be related to TMS which is why I was googling it and ran across your book excerpt. Your statement that foot pain is a new thing makes you sound like a inexperienced fool. You should revise this section of your book if you have any new editions come out. " Whew. I guess I'll stick to Dr. Sarno's books!
  19. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    I recall a few years back when the attractive wife of my club's pro came down with PF, with-in a short period of time many of the other ladies came down with PF like it was the flu. That outbreak of TMS PF has since subsided.

    As far as TMS symptoms being in "vogue", the Good Doctor has mentioned that's the norm, for example TMS/"ulcers" were popular until they were found out to be stress related. Having read Dr. Sopher's book and referencing it numerous times, I'm certain Dr. Sopher never meant that "foot pain" was a new thing. I'm sure it's been around since Ulduvai Gorge. TMS symptoms are culturally dictated, subconsciously of course--misery loves company. Most people in the hot-tub, when they are done talking about the weather, talk about their aches, pains, alternative remedies, body-workers, and ultimately upcoming surgeries. It's a common ground and much safer then discussing the tension and anger producing topics of religion and politics, (not to mention sex). TMS is a psychological crutch as well as real crutches are. I've seen many week-end athletes sitting on the sidelines injured weather from TMS or structural and proud of it--their ice-bag, bandage, brace, their badges of courage. They are off the battle-field and can now talk about their battle experiences--a way of transcordifying as SteveO has termed the need to associate.

    Dr. Sopher is a close associate of Dr. Sarno and even helped him rename TMS from Tension Myositis Syndrome to The Mindbody Syndrome to encompass many other forms of psychosomatic afflictions. I'm sure Dr. Sopher knows his TMS stuff as well as anyone on this planet can.

    Not quite sure what Graham's beef is with Dr. Sopher, maybe it's a weekend thing. Everything old is new again, including foot-pain, calling it PF makes it sound all that more scientific.

    This thread has reminded me that when I get on the court my left foot hurts, after about 20 minutes I forget about it, it goes away. I figure it's a TMS distractor tied to the tension of beginning the competition. If I allowed it to serve it's purpose as a TMS defense mechanism, I would pack up my bag, probably start seeing foot doctors, stick a feather in my cap, call it PF and have a Chardonnay or a Stella Artois on the sidelines. Coincidentally, in the old days there was a brand of tennis shoes called PF Flyers, maybe a premonition of plantar fasciitis.

    Does anyone know if there ever was a real Dr. Scholl?
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
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  20. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Tennis Tom.

    Those Dr. Scholl ads made me laugh. As if soft shoe pads can be such a miracle cure for foot and leg pain.

    I just looked Scholl up and found this:

    Dr. Scholl's is a footwear and foot care brand owned by British-company SSL International and manufactured in China. The brand was started by podiatrist William Mathias Scholl in 1906, in Chicago, United States. The original company expanded globally to design and patent over 1000 foot care products, and became a member of the Fortune 500 in 1971.

    After William Scholl died in 1968, Schering-Plough bought the brand. Under parent Merck & Co., Schering-Plough imports the product line from China, and has a North American distribution agreement with the Brown Shoe Company. In 1984, Schering-Plough sold the global brand and non-North American operations to European Home Products, who today as SSL International continue to manufacture footwear and foot care products distributed under the Scholl brand.
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