Grateful17
Well known member
Markus,
I though about getting that book. Steve-O suggested it to me. Is it a long one?
I though about getting that book. Steve-O suggested it to me. Is it a long one?
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Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
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BACKLASH SHARING TMS
- Thread starter Richsimm22
- Start date
M
Markus
Guest
No, not really it's 281 pages, and has 19 chapters. And it's packed with information and life lessons. It's packed full of great information from his career.
It was at my local Barnes and Noble booksellers so, I couldn't pass it up.
IrishSceptic
Podcast Visionary
I was trapped in the pain/victim cycle and it isn't easy to get out of that rut. I wouldn't have entertained the notion of TMS only for several youtube videos and testimonials from trustworthy people. It's like entering another realm and its scary to confront yourself with that sort of honesty whilst being convinced that TMS is what is behind most of your maladies.
M
Markus
Guest
It's really true. But I was tired of being sore and sick. And when I first learned about TMS, I was intrigued even if I had to throw away my old thinking. I haven't used fibromyalgia to describe what I have for months. I'm even aware my tms began by the time I was 5. So, it's OK to admit that.
Grateful17
Well known member
Me too Markus. I was 5. Then began getting minor physical symptoms when I was 8.
By the time I was 43.....BOOM !!!!! Huge TMS explosion of over 40 physical symptoms Pain and TMS Equivalents.
By the time I was 43.....BOOM !!!!! Huge TMS explosion of over 40 physical symptoms Pain and TMS Equivalents.
M
Markus
Guest
I was late having major symptoms but, I was a little people pleaser early on, I also was afraid easily. I was 38/9 before constant pain started! It's amazing how when we're little we can adapt and that doesn't cut it when we're older. I've started writing down my physical and emotional symptoms I hope I have the list done in a day or so!
Last edited by a moderator:
IrishSceptic
Podcast Visionary
I had childhood asthma and went to speech therapy very briefly so I think its definitely related to early childhood things, really very minor things but they impact nonetheless. great to hear you are doing well Markus.
M
Markus
Guest
Thanks, irish, I am well as far as my optomism. I also feel a bit better physically, to be truthful I've a ways to go yet!
I used to belong to several of those groups before learning about TMS, and can attest to the relentless wallowing and self-perpetuating obsessiveness that often goes on in them. But as others here have already pointed out, there are good reasons for this pattern. When you’re diagnosed with fibromyalgia, what everyone in the medical profession tells you is that it’s ‘incurable’. You may try some of the meds, which may help some people a bit but they certainly are no ‘cure’. And people soon discover that there are sharks out there trying to make money from them. The ‘alternative’ health practitioners are also generally looking for organic causes and they too, are trying to sell magical cures. It’s not hard to start feeling cynical about anyone claiming to have a solution. It’s odd, because this cynicism is paired with a kind of hope that soon, any day, medical science will come up with the magic bullet. Anyone who claims to have a ‘cure’ is regarded as a charlatan but at the same time they keep believing in the possibility of a medically-based ‘cure’. In fact, I’ve seen it suggested on these groups that someone who says they’ve recovered ‘never really had fibro in the first place’. It’s kind of a Catch-22.
It’s not hard to understand how all of this plugs into the hopelessness and helplessness that having relentless, all-over body pain can engender. And it’s not hard to understand how people can come to feel ‘not understood’ by others. Fibro is indeed TMS on steroids, especially severe fibro (in fact it can sometimes be hard for even other MSers to understand just how debilitating it can be) and it can be hard not to jump on the self-pity train. So people start to call themselves ‘fibromites’ ‘or fibro people’ and come to see it as a kind of identity. They see themselves as misunderstood victims of a ‘medical disease’. It’s sad, and it only serves to perpetuate the disorder, as we know, but it’s perfectly understandable. Of course, once you understand the TMS process, you come to understand how you yourself are contributing to your suffering and you see it differently, but it does require seeing things in a way totally contrary to the way nearly everyone else around you does.
I think what I’m trying to say here is that to some extent or other, many of us with extreme forms of TMS have been where people in these groups are ourselves in the past. Speaking for myself, I certainly found myself mired in distress many times before learning about TMS and I would find the negativity on many of these groups too contagious to venture there now. In a sense, the feelings expressed there are ‘shadow’ feelings for us. It’s tempting to be critical and even condescending rather than compassionate. I’m not saying that this is the case for anyone else, but that I’ve noticed it in myself, and I’m still very far from recovered myself.
I do think some fibro groups might be more amenable to TMS ideas than others. One group I belonged to for a little while was on FB and was called ‘Fibromyalgia and Food’ or something along those lines. The moderator believed that ‘food is medicine’ and was a big believer in a gluten-free diet being the key to fibro recovery, and there was a lot of interchange about recipes and things that seemed to help pain. This seemed to me limited but better than the emphasis in other groups. I remember there being some talk about the role of emotional states but no-one ever suggested they could be central, and unfortunately the emphasis was almost entirely on what you choose to put into your mouth so it remained ultimately based on the materialistic model.
I think it would be important to choose a group that’s likely to be less toxic and more amenable. The hardest thing to do would be to convince people that you aren’t there to 'sell' something that would end up being yet another gimmick that would lead to yet another disappointment, and take their money to boot. I don’t yet have the emotional fortitude to try at the moment, but I do think it’s worth a shot for someone who has.
It’s not hard to understand how all of this plugs into the hopelessness and helplessness that having relentless, all-over body pain can engender. And it’s not hard to understand how people can come to feel ‘not understood’ by others. Fibro is indeed TMS on steroids, especially severe fibro (in fact it can sometimes be hard for even other MSers to understand just how debilitating it can be) and it can be hard not to jump on the self-pity train. So people start to call themselves ‘fibromites’ ‘or fibro people’ and come to see it as a kind of identity. They see themselves as misunderstood victims of a ‘medical disease’. It’s sad, and it only serves to perpetuate the disorder, as we know, but it’s perfectly understandable. Of course, once you understand the TMS process, you come to understand how you yourself are contributing to your suffering and you see it differently, but it does require seeing things in a way totally contrary to the way nearly everyone else around you does.
I think what I’m trying to say here is that to some extent or other, many of us with extreme forms of TMS have been where people in these groups are ourselves in the past. Speaking for myself, I certainly found myself mired in distress many times before learning about TMS and I would find the negativity on many of these groups too contagious to venture there now. In a sense, the feelings expressed there are ‘shadow’ feelings for us. It’s tempting to be critical and even condescending rather than compassionate. I’m not saying that this is the case for anyone else, but that I’ve noticed it in myself, and I’m still very far from recovered myself.
I do think some fibro groups might be more amenable to TMS ideas than others. One group I belonged to for a little while was on FB and was called ‘Fibromyalgia and Food’ or something along those lines. The moderator believed that ‘food is medicine’ and was a big believer in a gluten-free diet being the key to fibro recovery, and there was a lot of interchange about recipes and things that seemed to help pain. This seemed to me limited but better than the emphasis in other groups. I remember there being some talk about the role of emotional states but no-one ever suggested they could be central, and unfortunately the emphasis was almost entirely on what you choose to put into your mouth so it remained ultimately based on the materialistic model.
I think it would be important to choose a group that’s likely to be less toxic and more amenable. The hardest thing to do would be to convince people that you aren’t there to 'sell' something that would end up being yet another gimmick that would lead to yet another disappointment, and take their money to boot. I don’t yet have the emotional fortitude to try at the moment, but I do think it’s worth a shot for someone who has.
I used to belong to several of those groups before learning about TMS, and can attest to the relentless wallowing and self-perpetuating obsessiveness that often goes on in them. But as others here have already pointed out, there are good reasons for this pattern. When you’re diagnosed with fibromyalgia, what everyone in the medical profession tells you is that it’s ‘incurable’. You may try some of the meds, which may help some people a bit but they certainly are no ‘cure’. And people soon discover that there are sharks out there trying to make money from them. The ‘alternative’ health practitioners are also generally looking for organic causes and they too, are trying to sell magical cures. It’s not hard to start feeling cynical about anyone claiming to have a solution. It’s odd, because this cynicism is paired with a kind of hope that soon, any day, medical science will come up with the magic bullet. Anyone who claims to have a ‘cure’ is regarded as a charlatan but at the same time they keep believing in the possibility of a medically-based ‘cure’. In fact, I’ve seen it suggested on these groups that someone who says they’ve recovered ‘never really had fibro in the first place’. It’s kind of a Catch-22.
It’s not hard to understand how all of this plugs into the hopelessness and helplessness that having relentless, all-over body pain can engender. And it’s not hard to understand how people can come to feel ‘not understood’ by others. Fibro is indeed TMS on steroids, especially severe fibro (in fact it can sometimes be hard for even other MSers to understand just how debilitating it can be) and it can be hard not to jump on the self-pity train. So people start to call themselves ‘fibromites’ ‘or fibro people’ and come to see it as a kind of identity. They see themselves as misunderstood victims of a ‘medical disease’. It’s sad, and it only serves to perpetuate the disorder, as we know, but it’s perfectly understandable. Of course, once you understand the TMS process, you come to understand how you yourself are contributing to your suffering and you see it differently, but it does require seeing things in a way totally contrary to the way nearly everyone else around you does.
I think what I’m trying to say here is that to some extent or other, many of us with extreme forms of TMS have been where people in these groups are ourselves in the past. Speaking for myself, I certainly found myself mired in distress many times before learning about TMS and I would find the negativity on many of these groups too contagious to venture there now. In a sense, the feelings expressed there are ‘shadow’ feelings for us. It’s tempting to be critical and even condescending rather than compassionate. I’m not saying that this is the case for anyone else, but that I’ve noticed it in myself, and I’m still very far from recovered myself.
I do think some fibro groups might be more amenable to TMS ideas than others. One group I belonged to for a little while was on FB and was called ‘Fibromyalgia and Food’ or something along those lines. The moderator believed that ‘food is medicine’ and was a big believer in a gluten-free diet being the key to fibro recovery, and there was a lot of interchange about recipes and things that seemed to help pain. This seemed to me limited but better than the emphasis in other groups. I remember there being some talk about the role of emotional states but no-one ever suggested they could be central, and unfortunately the emphasis was almost entirely on what you choose to put into your mouth so it remained ultimately based on the materialistic model.
I think it would be important to choose a group that’s likely to be less toxic and more amenable. The hardest thing to do would be to convince people that you aren’t there to 'sell' something that would end up being yet another gimmick that would lead to yet another disappointment, and take their money to boot. I don’t yet have the emotional fortitude to try at the moment, but I do think it’s worth a shot for someone who has.
It’s not hard to understand how all of this plugs into the hopelessness and helplessness that having relentless, all-over body pain can engender. And it’s not hard to understand how people can come to feel ‘not understood’ by others. Fibro is indeed TMS on steroids, especially severe fibro (in fact it can sometimes be hard for even other MSers to understand just how debilitating it can be) and it can be hard not to jump on the self-pity train. So people start to call themselves ‘fibromites’ ‘or fibro people’ and come to see it as a kind of identity. They see themselves as misunderstood victims of a ‘medical disease’. It’s sad, and it only serves to perpetuate the disorder, as we know, but it’s perfectly understandable. Of course, once you understand the TMS process, you come to understand how you yourself are contributing to your suffering and you see it differently, but it does require seeing things in a way totally contrary to the way nearly everyone else around you does.
I think what I’m trying to say here is that to some extent or other, many of us with extreme forms of TMS have been where people in these groups are ourselves in the past. Speaking for myself, I certainly found myself mired in distress many times before learning about TMS and I would find the negativity on many of these groups too contagious to venture there now. In a sense, the feelings expressed there are ‘shadow’ feelings for us. It’s tempting to be critical and even condescending rather than compassionate. I’m not saying that this is the case for anyone else, but that I’ve noticed it in myself, and I’m still very far from recovered myself.
I do think some fibro groups might be more amenable to TMS ideas than others. One group I belonged to for a little while was on FB and was called ‘Fibromyalgia and Food’ or something along those lines. The moderator believed that ‘food is medicine’ and was a big believer in a gluten-free diet being the key to fibro recovery, and there was a lot of interchange about recipes and things that seemed to help pain. This seemed to me limited but better than the emphasis in other groups. I remember there being some talk about the role of emotional states but no-one ever suggested they could be central, and unfortunately the emphasis was almost entirely on what you choose to put into your mouth so it remained ultimately based on the materialistic model.
I think it would be important to choose a group that’s likely to be less toxic and more amenable. The hardest thing to do would be to convince people that you aren’t there to 'sell' something that would end up being yet another gimmick that would lead to yet another disappointment, and take their money to boot. I don’t yet have the emotional fortitude to try at the moment, but I do think it’s worth a shot for someone who has.
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
That's exactly what I always say about this book - it blew my mind wide open and showed me the possibilities WAY beyond TMS.
I'm sure you would be doing someone a favor if you could do that. I found The Divided Mind by surfing a migraine forum after the dizziness PT I was seeing said I should go on a migraine diet. The forum member who was recommending Dr. Sarno was horribly abused by the other members, but I got the book from the library the next day and never looked back. Sadly, by the time I realized I wanted to thank him, I had no idea where I'd seen that post - I might have signed up as a member just to do that, but then maybe he was already a member here! My point being that you never know who is going to see your post - even if you have to suffer some abuse to make it. Perhaps you could say something like "Just in case there is anyone who is thinking they might want to try something else, this brought me a lot of relief..."
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
That's okay, Porpoise - I often skip videos (intending to watch them later, which never happens) and I was able to read your post in less than 17 minutes which is the length of the video. I absorb more from reading anyway. That was a great post and I appreciated learning about the dynamics of these groups.Just listened to the whole of the video mentioned above and see that some of my comments are redundant because he's already mentioned them - apologies for the repetition!
I am also amused that a member named Porpoise describes these scammers as sharks
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
So maybe someone posting about TMS could phrase it as "...some folks who have found relief from their symptoms by using the TMS approach have been told they didn't have fibro to begin with - which is fine, but there may be people reading this who aren't really sure, so it can't hurt for them to give TMS theories a try..."
That's okay, Porpoise - I often skip videos (intending to watch them later, which never happens) and I was able to read your post in less than 17 minutes which is the length of the video. I absorb more from reading anyway. That was a great post and I appreciated learning about the dynamics of these groups.
I am also amused that a member named Porpoise describes these scammers as sharks
I didn't even pick up my own pun, Jan!
That sounds like an excellent idea.
North Star
Beloved Grand Eagle
Markus - I am listening to the audio version of Dr. Mate's book....for the second time. It really is amazing. He has several talks on Youtube that I've listened to as well. Not only is he one smart cookie, his love and concern for people is evident. A truly wonderful human being.
PS Grateful, I just saw your inquiry about the book. I HIGHLY recommend it.
PS Grateful, I just saw your inquiry about the book. I HIGHLY recommend it.
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
I was looking up mind-body and stroke factors today for my ex, who just told me about two recent strokes in his family - one of them a nephew who is only in his forties. I found this interesting page hosted by the NIH, summarizing studies of mind-body techniques for various health issues (including stroke). Here is the fibro paragraph:
Fibromyalgia
Studies of mind–body interventions for fibromyalgia have been inconclusive. In a systematic review, mind–body therapy was found more effective for clinical outcomes compared to waiting list/treatment as usual or other control groups. When mind–body medicine was compared to active treatments the results were inconclusive, except for moderate/high intensity exercise where exercise was more effective. There was also moderate evidence that combining mind–body therapy with exercise or antidepressants may provide the most effective option and where future research should be directed. Since that review, tai chi was found to significantly improve the Fibromyalgia Impact Questionnaire and health-related quality of life scores and guided imagery plus usual care vs usual care alone showed improved functional status and self-efficacy. An additional RCT compared EMG biofeedback vs sham biofeedback and found significant decreases in mean pain VAS scores and tender points. One negative RCT (n = 128) revealed no difference between an education group and a mindfulness meditation and qigong group on various fibromyalgia outcomes, although both groups improved on the Fibromyalgia Impact Questionnaire, pain, and depression scores.
Fibromyalgia
Studies of mind–body interventions for fibromyalgia have been inconclusive. In a systematic review, mind–body therapy was found more effective for clinical outcomes compared to waiting list/treatment as usual or other control groups. When mind–body medicine was compared to active treatments the results were inconclusive, except for moderate/high intensity exercise where exercise was more effective. There was also moderate evidence that combining mind–body therapy with exercise or antidepressants may provide the most effective option and where future research should be directed. Since that review, tai chi was found to significantly improve the Fibromyalgia Impact Questionnaire and health-related quality of life scores and guided imagery plus usual care vs usual care alone showed improved functional status and self-efficacy. An additional RCT compared EMG biofeedback vs sham biofeedback and found significant decreases in mean pain VAS scores and tender points. One negative RCT (n = 128) revealed no difference between an education group and a mindfulness meditation and qigong group on various fibromyalgia outcomes, although both groups improved on the Fibromyalgia Impact Questionnaire, pain, and depression scores.
M
Markus
Guest
I will have to look at his YouTube videos. His book amazes me,and even though I need to get back to reading it, I was blown away by his revelations! That diabetes is an autoimmune disorder floored me. (I don't have it, but it could very well change how it is treated, if big pharma developed a heart.) His face is weathered by life. Both the wonder and disappointment of what he's been witness to is there. I believe his book along with Steve O's and maybe the divided mind, will be the books I use to move forward and take life back. Along with the SEP!
North Star
Beloved Grand Eagle
Interesting article, Jan. Much of my TMS healing has come through TMS awareness, first and foremost. But the other biggies are mindfulness and daily exercise. I lift weights, do Zumba and will start jogging soon as well. I feel like the benefits for exercise are almost more mental even though I am enjoying feeling my body get in better shape.