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Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Red Mountain, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. Dorado

    Dorado Beloved Grand Eagle

    Karim, have you spoken to a TMS counselor who can directly work with you to dig into your situation? You are on this board for a reason: you must still believe in or at least remain curious about TMS work. That’s great!

    Now, it’s not about you not believing that the pain can harm you. And regarding my comment on going back to living life, that is part of the overall plan, unless one is approaching life the same exact way they were when they developed the symptoms; if that is the case, you’ll only achieve the same negative results and repeat the same negative cycles over and over again. Because of this, I do recommend some considerations for changes.

    Ultimately, it’s about how you’re dealing with your daily emotions (including repressed emotions) and your past, your perceptions of life and your individual situations, how the symptoms are affecting you mentally, your beliefs, etc. I am not a counselor, and I am not the best person to directly work with you - I can only give you guidance in these directions.

    I say this with compassion and understanding: you’ve made multiple posts and comments in the last day, and you’ve also directly messaged me (unfortunately, I’m unable to keep up with my inbox, but you can speak to me on the public forum). I can still sense a great deal of emotion in your words (again, no judgment whatsoever - I’ve been there too many times to count and feel for you). This is definitely affecting you, and the symptoms are on your mind. Sometimes even wishing the symptoms were gone and feeling impatient or “stuck” is enough to perpetuate them. You said you wish you just had back pain - that is an example of fearful thinking and feeling “stuck,” even if it doesn’t seem like it. The truth is that I suspect you are not as content or carefree as you think you are. The good news is that there are wonderful people and great resources who can help you figure that out.

    As Steve Ozanich says, healing happens when you realize and truly believe there is nothing wrong with you.

    I recommend working with a professional who can directly help you and delve into your situation in a way that identifies the root of what’s going on and how to best respond. I wish you all the best! ❤️
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
    Eric "Herbie" Watson, plum and tgirl like this.
  2. Karim

    Karim Peer Supporter

    Thanks i really appreciate your Words AND kindness, Is not so Easy watching people heal AND me in pain
    Eric "Herbie" Watson and Dorado like this.
  3. Dorado

    Dorado Beloved Grand Eagle

    That is completely understandable. There is nothing wrong with you for feeling that way - I think a lot of us have felt that way at some point during our TMS journeys. I remember reading success stories and feeling like I was so incredibly far away from them. It really hurt me. I even felt like a failure and helpless. And that's something that can definitely affect the healing process and get in the way of us fully getting back to living our most satisfying lives. I really do believe there is hope for you. You are not helpless, I promise. You just might have to peel back some layers and talk some things out.
  4. Karim

    Karim Peer Supporter

    I am going to get therapy Mondays i hope it works
  5. Karim

    Karim Peer Supporter

    Why my pain after the Whiplash injury started one month after the injury AND i didn't got neck pain it started With facial pain
  6. Dorado

    Dorado Beloved Grand Eagle

    Why did I have symptoms of alcoholic neuropathy (nerve pain and autonomic dysfunction after drinking alcohol) when I didn't even know about alcoholic neuropathy until well after I Googled the symptoms (and this was a major reason why I swore up and down that I had a structural problem)? Why do some people not get TMS pain until they have an injury they just can't seem to recover from, even though they really did already recover? The only thing I can say is that body is a strange, funny thing. Sometimes it seems like the TMS process is opportunistic, doesn't it?

    Sometimes the questions can't always be answered in a way that makes sense to us. Why was I having symptoms even when I wasn't stressed out? Why was I experiencing the symptoms nearly 24/7 at one point? I now know that my nervous system was simply stressed out beyond my comprehension at the time, and it was reacting to things I didn't even know were bothering me that much. About a year before the very worst of the symptoms hit and didn't go away, I was majorly stressed out with work to the point of having a few meltdowns in private (yet everyone else thought I seemed so happy and relaxed), I learned through social media that my significant other got married to someone else behind my back because their parents wanted them to be straight, I caught was in the middle of some serious family drama that was completely out of my control, etc. When I learned how to deal with all of those things, I thought I had no reason to experience symptoms... but they were not going away. I was still reacting to stressors that were not as significantly terrible as those other issues. Even something as simple as resenting someone who isn't as independent as me and constantly requires my approval was making me in a heightened state of sympathetic overdrive.

    You're still asking questions, and I don't blame you for that at all, but it does show that you have some doubts (again, I've been there, as has pretty much everybody else on this forum!). This is something that can be overcome - it may take some time, so please do not be discouraged if you aren't healing as quickly as you hoped. Many of us had to learn how to be patient and take our time. :)
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  7. Karim

    Karim Peer Supporter

    Thanks brother
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  8. Drew

    Drew Peer Supporter

    hi Dorado,

    Big fan of your story and your posts.Would it be possible to talk to you directly. I have crps and neuropathic pain as well for last 3-4 years and what crazy I have seen some amazing improvement when I just pushed myself at the gym and became very active and got busy in life the pain subsided. The neuropathic pain was always mainly in my legs and certain times in last two years I have been working out like an athlete doing lunges, squats upto 200lbs, step up, leg press upto 500 lbs and a lot of biking and cardio. But last 4 months all neuropathic pain has come back with a vengeance and not just in legs but all over especially the burning skin, tingling, electric shocks, cold water feeling, fire ants biting crawling, you name it and I have that neuropathic symptoms. I had these nerve symptoms before too but they slowly faded I even travelled all around Europe and went to 16 counties on my own working out going to bars having a great time. But last 3 months my mom visited I panicked to her about still getting these symptoms and more I panicked it’s like everything came back and then we went and met 3-4 more doctors and the more I explained my old symptoms it’s like my brain was listening and I have debilitating pain in legs and all nerve symptoms back all the time, the nerve sensitivity and when my mom was still here my full body was having nerve symptoms shocks tingling burning, it was like in just the 3 weeks she was here the more I focused and panicked about my problems it just kept intensifying and now I almost feel like a cripple in just last two months. It’s astonishing to see I was lifting 200 lbs squats and doing Such hard workout again thinking I’m mostly past it with most of my nerve symptoms restricted to stressful times or night time while sleeping or in morning to now them being there 24/7 and some days I can’t even walk. When I started getting better 2 years ago I couldn’t walk anymore so I forced myself to Walk 10-15 miles everyday, I couldn’t wear jeans or any clothing pretty much would cause sensivity pain in knees classic CRPS allodynia sign. I have been overly obsessing and spending about 10-15 hours on forums everyday since this relapse and everytime I have to explain my stmptoms even right now as I’m writing I can feeling them Going up and up. If I pick up and call mom n dad and vent or start getting sad or panicky the symptoms go up 100 times but if I don’t call them every morning I wake up with full body burning tingling and every nerve symptoms everywhere. I can’t belive just 7 months ago I was dancing in Ireland and running around in Barcelona and here I am restricted to my bed unable to do anything and because of wrtiting and explaining my symptoms to so many people over the last 2 months it’s like every single one of them is back which I thought I had forgotten or loved past from. It’s like my nerves are so hyper and nervous system can’t seem to turn off anymore.
  9. Gusto

    Gusto Peer Supporter


    I have had the exact same symptoms as you for 5 years and it's all going away now that I no longer let my self obsess over it. Wearing clothing would hurt and shoes can be agony. Dorado/Caufield was a huge help to me by reinforcing my own eventual conclusion that this is ALL stress and obsessive focus related. .. and my attention and wanting to get rid of the symptoms was what was perpetuating it.. the more I take the "fuck it, bring it'son attitude" the more it goes away. It's the same thing that causes anxiety disorders and it's the same resolution and that is acceptance. Fighting and frustration and wanting to be rid of, and also researching etc is the main reason your brain is amplifying benign sensations and perpetuating the cycle... even working out heaps can be a form of wanting it to cure you, unless it's what you enjoy. The real cure is to get on with life, try and enjoy and relax in spite of how your body is feeling. Stress is the cause but the reactions to the stress and the symptoms is what keeps the ball rolling. Analysed every food I ate and every thing I did that would cause symptom increases. I developed reactions due to the sub conscious conditioning.
    I now eat whatever the fuck I want and drink booze (prob too much).. but I'm enjoying life again!

    It's the most bizarre shit I've ever experienced or thought could happen ... But there is a way out and that is acceptance indifference and being kind to yourself and believing in your body's inate ability to heal itself and reset give the right environment.

    Relaxation and sleep help a lot too .. but if you are struggling here too don't stress about it

    You can do this... By doing nothing !
    TrustIt and tgirl like this.
  10. Drew

    Drew Peer Supporter

    Omg gusto,

    thank you soo much for this I have read a lot of your posts and really identified with every word you said. And yes in the last two years whenever I got on with life traveling and just fun I have gotten better just this bout of 2 months where I panicked and like you said obsessively tried to get ride of it by going to doctors, reading for hours a day (which I still am), obsessing and panicking about every old symptoms coming back, getting frustrated that just 6 months ago I was traveling and enjoying life lifting bags, working out and here I am completely debelatated and crippled almost with the nerves firing constantly the minute I sit down or try to sleep and everything that had become a piece of cake or thing that I didn’t care about is not bothering agin and making me so anxious and mad that I lost all my progress and pain free days to have oain everyday just from my mothers visit me panicking to her every minute she was here that my pain never goes away and then us going and meeting 6 different doctors and explaining them all horrible nerve symptoms and allodynia I had and guess what I got every single symptoms back within those two weeks :(.

    would love to talk to you sometime if possible might help calm me down a little.soth everything going on I’m obsessing so much about all symptoms and just can’t get myself ofve forums and back to life cause every morning I wake up my legs and body is burning tingling ants crawling or almost like someone is electrocuting my whole body within 3 second of me waking up and the allodynia symptoms are back to which is disheartening cause I felt I beat it. Definitely see the stress emotion correlation but can’t calm
    Myself to belive that that’s all I have and not some crazy neuropathy or neurological disorder for life.
    Thanks again bud.
    Stay safe
  11. Gusto

    Gusto Peer Supporter

    Yeah man, I've been there... you have pretty much the same shit I've had to deal with, i always struggled to find someone with the exact same symptoms (although many were simillar), but you seem pretty bloody close... it sucks hey. But you know what, it's goes away! How fucking cool is that! You've experienced this yourself when you got back to living, it's merely your body's overreaction and you can retrain it again. You already know what you have to do, and that is stop caring and eventually your brain/body gets the message that there's nothing to be afraid of.

    Fear is the main motivator behind all off this, and the lack of acceptance. And the fact that it's so bizarre is what perpetuated it for Me for so long, I could easily grasp it intellectually, BUT because the symptoms seem so much like physical damage I don't think deep down I believed there could actually be nothing wrong.

    Sorry to the sarno purists but the repression bit never rang true for me, maybe it does for some but in my opinion thats maybe one of several types of mechanisms that can lead to this hyperstimulation, which at the end of the day is just conditioning.. for Me it was stress, how i let it overload me, then I ran my body down, got some symptoms of stress, stressed about those symptoms, next thing I know I had a full blown health anxiety (Yeah but I have physical syptoms, this ain't mental!), and this non acceptance and fighting and trying to fix, and find the cure, and the quickest way to deal.. etc.. this all kept the fire lit., I then dealt with the stress, simplified my life, let logic in and decided not to be anxious and go back to being that though fucker that I know I am... and slowly got My head straight again, chilled the fuck out..

    But no matter how zen I got, I still had daily messed up symptoms.. which I still kept trying to resolve... I'd occasionally go down the next rabbit hole trying to do everything right... end up seeking reassurance on anxiety forums, tms, fibro, cfs, neuropathy, chronic pain (I managed to resist the crps hole, of which I'm sure i would have diagnosed with), but mate im utterly convinced all these things are the same and hence why this TMS forum resonates most with me as others in here have come to the same conclusion, and that is that this is all stress and fear based and it's just a snowball that I and you have let get out of control.

    For me this has been a fairly recent shift in mindstate to real true indifference to the symptoms, the Alan Gordon program on here hits the nail on the head, he gets it, and I gel With that as I'm a science based guy.. .. some of the other stuff is a bit out there for me.. but the point I think is whatever works for you. Its all about convincing yourself you are ok, and then letting your body catch up to that conclusion in it's own time... In the mean time get out there and live your life!

    Sorry for the unedited verbal salad, it's late and I wanted to pen you a reply.

    Just know in yourself there is nothing wrong, reframe the sensations as not pain, just merely a sensations and you will be just fine.

    I had for a LONG time the most debilitating pain and mental anguish.. I'm laying in bed now, pain and stress free.

    You can private message me on here if you want, you know what you need to do though, and that's nothing, don't fall in to the trap that I did of needing reassurance all the time.. that in itself is a rabbit hole. (I used to feel better physically after being reassured... that in itself should have been a massive clue my body was not damaged).

    Take care dude, you got this
    TrustIt, tgirl and Drew like this.
  12. Karim

    Karim Peer Supporter

    Same story here. I am struggling doing cardio, by chest my back of the head and temples get sot hot i feel total suffocation. Everytime i do cardio my gets so hot i have to stop ans my chest gets red. I feel like my head is inside an oven and super dizzy too. What could be that??
  13. Gusto

    Gusto Peer Supporter

    Dorado is on point with everything.
    Stop trying to understand the why was a big one for me, not everything has to compute for you to progress. Get off Google, get off forums.. Stop needing reassurance (although some is good when you are really struggling just to get you back on track), this all only enforces to your subconscious that there is something that needs fixing, and thus something that is wrong. You need to come to the understanding that there is actually nothing wrong, this sensitization is just part of the human condition, it's how our bodies work... remove the focus and you end up eventually turning down the amplification...

    Anyways I've said my piece, I'm off to enjoy life, you should do the same

    Cheers for listening
    tgirl and Drew like this.
  14. Drew

    Drew Peer Supporter

    God dude,
    Thanks a ton for such a detailed and helpful reply man. It all makes so much sense as to why when on several occasions like going on vacation to Europe n Australia or just getting back to life before made me feel so much better cause I wasn’t sitting and reading and tryin to figure this out I was enjoying life.
    I do totally get the emotion/stress correlation and how instantly sometimes it’ll turn up my symptoms like sometimes I’ll not even be in a stressful situation but be thibking something that scared me or I’m worried about or really stresses me and boom I’ll get tons of symptoms it’s like my body does the thinking instead of the brain.
    That’s my one major concern that I do see my emotions affecting me so how do you de link that like I’m an actor in LA my whole life career is gonna be full of stresses and rejections and god knows what so like if I just crumble and get so many symptoms right before an audition from worrying and hoping “oh god don’t give me symptoms at my audition today” (and always when I do that I get the worst symptoms and have the worst audition :) go figure haha) then how will I handle bigger worries and things in life. Work career finances dating health/pain o constantly have so much pressure and stress and worry on me like once let’s say I do start giving my symptoms less focus.. then everytime I’m in a stressful situation or worry and they become heightened again I won’t be able to live a proper life.. do u get what I am saying? Like how do I de link this emotion/stress (mind) and symptoms (body) reaction which is so instant. Just by not caring? oh and it’s so crazy I am a science guy so have to get into the funniest of detail of what the hell is going on the last two neurologist were like what is he talking about central sensitization and nervous system being turned on lol
    But it really doesn’t help cause everyone tells me something a little different and then I latch on to that details and google and forum the shit out of what they told me.. in the last two months I visited crps, BLS, restless leg syndrome, Annxiety and TMS forums like every freakin day no wonder my body kept getting worse n worse man.
    So yeah like first stop stop all this talk, reading, writing and giving focus to my symptoms which I started from yesterday but then how do I not let emotions affect me. Like just yesterday I didn’t read a thing and symptoms were like so much better then sitting in a room alone
    ( damn covid) just a little worried they might attack any moment and not having the luxury to just get up and go out I could feel my skin burning a lit some tingling starting but then I started watch the Dave chapel le special and didn’t come on like it does :) haha
    But you know especially sitting in casting rooms for auditions or even on dates sometimes I’ll start overthinking or hoping symptoms pls don’t comes cause that will fuck up my date or audition and they do. So how do I go about that?
    Thanks a ton again man
  15. Gusto

    Gusto Peer Supporter

    You have your proof man, your first sentence says it all, first of all stay the fuck off those forums, trust me on this, you're effectively in a suggestive state, as odd as it seems I had bizarre symptoms after reading about them, your brain is a powerful tool. Stop looking for Clinical answers, it's all about retraining your mind and body to be less reactive and less internally focussed, but you effectively are doing the opposite by searching anxiously for a cure, treatment program, etc.
    When I say to "retraining" I don't want that to be interpreted as that there is some kind of schedule or program that you have to follow, I'm referring to the thing that every other human that dosnt have these severe symptoms does everyday and that's get going with just living life, I'm referring to how you used to be before you got so caught up internally focussing... Although maybe approach this life less reactively, with less stress on yourself.

    I can relate, I felt I had a better understanding of the nervous system than every doc i have ever seen.

    As far as the main fear that you have, being that you are going to be this reactive to stressors your entire life, luckily that's not how recovery looks, your body slowly but surely builds it's resiliency to the stress over time, this bit can drag on, but as long as you stop reacting to the symptoms of stress with more stress and worry it will eventually stabilise... but don't try to timeline this, and that is stressful :)
    I find I am a much less reactionary and worried guy than i have ever been, and that's something that has to come with recovery.

    Stop living in the future and worrying how you're body is going to react to things, live more in the present, just enjoy the now, and everything will stabilise and revert back to a normal sensitivity and homeostasis..

    It's not the stress itself that's got you wound up like this, it's always your reaction to it. Above all else STOP OVERANALYSING

    A bit part for me also was to slow my life down a bit, focus on the fun but also the relaxation, rest etc.

    tgirl likes this.
  16. tgirl

    tgirl Well known member

    Gusto, your posts are fabulous. I’ve had weird leg sensations for a long time. They went away twice, quite some time ago, but they now seem so stuck. Doctors can’t find a thing. Your attitude about your past symptoms is so encouraging. Thanks for posting.

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