A word about outcome independence

[Zuz]

The fainting was probably vasovagal syncope which is temporary and harmless. Are you bedridden because you're tired(like actually needing more sleep or rest) or because of pain/being afraid to move? What area was the back pain(was it on the left side)? Are you feeling better now?

Thank you so much for writing clearly what I think it was! Even if a nurse on a phone service wanted me to go to the emergency.
I get these acute back pain, usually lower left every few months since twenty years. Usually two osteopath tratements would get me ok but it keeps coming back. Since i read drSarno it’s like the osteopath does not work anymore...
I was bedridden from severe pain. After three days with anti-inflammatoires and muscle relaxers and rest I am starting to move a bit in the house but I get tired ( physically, after the muscle tension ‘protecting’ from the pain and emotionally).
Meanwhile I am enjoying being able to lie down often. It has been two years that if I lie down during the day my stomach buldges horribly and hurts. Totally Tms of course. It’s exchaustong never be able to lie down and often having trouble falling alsleep with the pain. So I am totally at least enjoying lying down most of the day .
I have pain since twenty years and unfortunately last December I had scans that confirmed I had some stuff that matches the place of the main pain and my family doctor freaked out that I have to watch out or else i will paralyse. I think I would have paralyzed before... but bleehhh my anxiety was not helped.
But I still hope since it’s not always so bad that it’s not structural andI am used to move well and protect this area but because it’s tms...

 

[Balsa11]

It's better to lie down for a nap. If you're not napping, it's better to stay active. I find designating parts of a room or house to have a different use is really nice.

 

[Zuz]

I napped like a baby for a week now.
One of my old tms friends- stomach aches- decided for the last year and a half that if I lay down it will cramp horribly. So I was resting standing up for the last year and a half.
Being bedridden because of acute back pain I noticed the stomach gave me a break. Since a week, I manage it with breathing and sometimes a heating pad and I am able to nap during the day . With all the learning to calm fears in my head my body feels ready to nap all day long. Even straight after coffee hihi
I try to associate one nice activity per room. I managed to crochet in my office a bit I am so happy !! standing, not sitting yet, I don’t want to trigger my fear. I practice sitting almost pain free for eating for now.
I know usually you want to get active fast but when I tried I got so much pain I was passing out. I don’t think it’s a good idea in my case, it just got my pain a huge boost.
I am always on the run, since I remember. Actually staying calmly in bed, thinking, feeling, enjoying sloooowww is such a new good feeling.
I think my body used this last severe pain to scream at me to learn to relax, finally. i am enjoying this new inactivity so much, I can’t believe it’s not a good way. I have no idea but but it feels like this.

 

[CAC1977]

What an amazing post. Nearly ten years later and here I am. What I find so encouraging—besides the gist of outcome independence—is that Alan states we will revert back to outcome dependence, but don't worry! just pick up the next day/time and keep right on going. I can get SO discouraged when I have a bad day, or feel I'm failing because I feel I took two steps backwards, that I'll never really get better…but I just have to keep reminding myself to not measure everything all the time. Just do the best I can in the moment and keep going.

 

[Balsa11]

I napped like a baby for a week now.
One of my old tms friends- stomach aches- decided for the last year and a half that if I lay down it will cramp horribly. So I was resting standing up for the last year and a half.
Being bedridden because of acute back pain I noticed the stomach gave me a break. Since a week, I manage it with breathing and sometimes a heating pad and I am able to nap during the day . With all the learning to calm fears in my head my body feels ready to nap all day long. Even straight after coffee hihi
I try to associate one nice activity per room. I managed to crochet in my office a bit I am so happy !! standing, not sitting yet, I don’t want to trigger my fear. I practice sitting almost pain free for eating for now.
I know usually you want to get active fast but when I tried I got so much pain I was passing out. I don’t think it’s a good idea in my case, it just got my pain a huge boost.
I am always on the run, since I remember. Actually staying calmly in bed, thinking, feeling, enjoying sloooowww is such a new good feeling.
I think my body used this last severe pain to scream at me to learn to relax, finally. i am enjoying this new inactivity so much, I can’t believe it’s not a good way. I have no idea but but it feels like this.

Next step: staying relaxed while resting, moving, eating, or working out! Saves the symptoms a lot.

 

[berlinale]

I absoluteley buy into the concept of outcome independence. Nevertheless I struggle to implement it because deep in my heart I really want my symptoms to disappear. It is why I came hear, it is why I am doing all this. I really struggle to convince myself that outcome does not matter as it actually does matter to me. Any thoughts what can I do to facilitate this?

 

[Cactusflower]

I absoluteley buy into the concept of outcome independence. Nevertheless I struggle to implement it because deep in my heart I really want my symptoms to disappear. It is why I came hear, it is why I am doing all this. I really struggle to convince myself that outcome does not matter as it actually does matter to me. Any thoughts what can I do to facilitate this?

I learned from this forum to be honest with myself. You believe outcome independence does matter. That's your motivating factor to keep working on it, and that's not a bad thing! Where this becomes a stress or a pressure on yourself is how you talk to yourself about it, and how "fast" etc. you push yourself.
You can have goals but keep your stress about the achievement of them manageable. The key is focus. It becomes stressful when you focus on what you DON'T have - or what you have no achieved. This perpetuates a negative thought cycle which sort of snowballs into us being really hard on ourselves. Focus on what you have already achieved. For some reason, many of us have been taught we can't do this until we achieve EVERYTHING - all of it, and "it" is some goal either we or when we realize it, a goal someone else has set for us. Achieve, do, strive, has become our daily mantra in a world that demands more of us to prove some sort of self worth to ourselves or others. This is all a complete distraction from the fact that we don't need to "do" anything. We are OK just being, and it's actually enjoyable not to do anything.
So what does this have to do with outcome independence? It's the pressure we put on ourselves to achieve the goal. The goal is great, good, healthy and makes sense. But it's HOW you achieve the goal that is important. It's the journey, the path, the way you do it that decreases stress surrounding it.
People employ various techniques: meditation which helps us learn to take our minds away from it's churning business.

Reading Claire Weekes - because much of this mind churning and negative thought pattern is function of anxiety and Claire has different names (or no names) for her methods but it's all the same work and she gives explicit directions.

Having more "fun" - or using purposeful distractions. Engage in things you enjoy doing often helps take away the fear of doing things with outcome independent because you are focused on doing them and having fun and not obsessing over if you are being outcome independent.

Using the Stop technique: when you have hyperfocus on symptoms or constant whirling negative thoughts - tell yourself to STOP and then put your mind directly on another focus. You still need to do all other TMS work while using this method (eg. focusing on emotions) but this is a great way to re-direct your mind. I had to do this 9 million times a day at first, and it was exhausting and I still do it several times a day (and not just about TMS, but about anything that sends me into a spiral of negativity or internal stress). I focus my mind on a task or something more pleasant - on a walk, I focused on the birds, or the blue sky. I am beginning to exercise more, and focus on my breath and congratulating myself every time I do something that I am fearful about - I turn my mind strongly away from every fear thought that tries to creep in.

It can take time. You learned to focus on these negative things and be fearful, for perhaps your entire life. Not just about the symptoms but about other parts of your life. You are changing the way you think. Have kindness and patience toward yourself in the process and enjoy every single little achievement. When you do these things you begin to realize how much impact they have over so many other places in your life, and the journey to your goal becomes so much sweeter.

 

[berlinale]

Thanks a lot. I guess becoming outcome independent is difficult for a perfectionist like me. As a perfectionist, i want to give me the best treatment possible and achieve the best results possible. I tend to worry that I am missing an opportunity or doing something wrong. Now that i know about outcome independence, off course I want to achieve it. I unconscously put myself under pressure to achieving this goal. So I am achieving exactly the opposite of what is the goal here. So I need to become outcome independent of becoming outcome independent. You mentioned meditation, purposeful distractions and the stop-technique. Are there any other good exercises etc. to facilitate this process of becoming more outcome independent and patient with myself and my progress?

 

[feduccini]

Are there any other good exercises etc. to facilitate this process of becoming more outcome independent and patient with myself and my progress?

Maybe some sort of parts work, like Internal Family Systems, might help you. Understanding there are parts of your mind who will get stressed when you're having a flare up, and that doesn't necessarily might dominate what you feel. As there are others who are at the same time being very mature and telling you it's ok. It's just a matter to learn to listen to them.

 

[Cactusflower]

@berlinale - I see that perfectionism, but it's also some resistance. You want to be done with TMS and be done now, perfectly and never feel a single thing "like this" or stress or whatever again.
But those things are part of life, and like emotions, you are meant to feel and experience them. It's what helps shape us as human beings. I think this is very common with TMS and it's totally how people get here.
The sweep emotions under the rug.
They sweep "negative" experiences under the rug (or as I mentioned, live and wallow in them and bark at everyone because they "have to" live like that - being victims)
Numb and unfeeling - never experiencing the highs and lows. The lows make the highs of life all the more sweet.
It's not just perfectionism that does this, I think it's people who have had difficulties in life either imposed upon them or perceived (it doesn't matter to the subconscious!)
You can keep working on your personal and interpersonal skills as you progress in life. Stuff might come up again: you feel the same "old" sensations, emotions, symptoms but you also become confident that you know what's up and how to deal with it. This is by engaging in the work for a lifetime as part of your personal care. @feduccini is right - you'll feel stress. Sometimes lots, sometimes less than you used to. It's life.

 

[Diana-M]

@berlinale ,

Great thread!

This is all a complete distraction from the fact that we don't need to "do" anything. We are OK just being, and it's actually enjoyable not to do anything.

This is so true, and so painful to learn. I feel my entire life has been dismantled while I’ve been “urgently”waiting to heal. My ego, my goals, my relationships, my thoughts, my perspectives have all changed over the past year. At first I hated what was happening. Then I got just plain apathetic and depressed. Now I can see some amazing and great life changes that have come about while I’ve been on my TMS journey. For the most part, I’m starting to find peace and happiness. (Outcome independence, I guess you would call it!) But there are still moments and days when I backslide into impatience or self pity.

At this point, I’ve resigned myself to go the distance—whatever that may be. I’m having some fun. Im loosening the tons of pressure I used to put myself under. I’m good at living right now—just the way I am (which is really quite physically limiting). But I know if I stay the course, one day I’ll come out of this. And/or, I’ll stay the same, and get even happier.

It can take time. You learned to focus on these negative things and be fearful, for perhaps your entire life.

Yes! What a long time to be such a nervous and angry (victimized) person. An entire long lifetime! I didn’t even realize how many traps I was in. It has been almost a total inner overhaul. And I’m thankful for that. I think I’d rather be the TMS physically challenged me with my new insides over my old “normal” self, lacking this enlightenment.

(And many thanks to this forum!)

 

[Cactusflower]

"I think I’d rather be the TMS physically challenged me with my new insides over my old “normal” self, lacking this enlightenment."
I"m gonna pop open a big bottle of sparkling apple juice and passes the fancy glasses because lady, YOU WIN!

 

[berlinale]

@berlinale - I see that perfectionism, but it's also some resistance. You want to be done with TMS and be done now, perfectly and never feel a single thing "like this" or stress or whatever again.

yes, absolutely. there is resistance. I do not invited the symptoms, I do not like them and I really want to get rid of them. I do know that this attitude does not help me and that it is feeding the cycle of suffering (and this knowledge is actually feeding the cycle again). But it is not easy to switch this feelings off.

 

[Diana-M]

"I think I’d rather be the TMS physically challenged me with my new insides over my old “normal” self, lacking this enlightenment."
I"m gonna pop open a big bottle of sparkling apple juice and passes the fancy glasses because lady, YOU WIN!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Watch out for the Yes, But... " responses, @berlinale!

yes, absolutely.... But it is not easy...

Try rewriting this response without the "but" or anything that is essentially the same as a "But" (phrases like "it's just that..." for exsmple".

This is your brain on TMS. You ask for feedback. You receive feedback. You are a goodist, you want to be polite, so you express agreement with or gratefulness for the feedback - and then you turn around and reject the feedback, because your TMS brain has you in the grip of resistance, and possibly victimhood.

You've got to break this cycle or, I guarantee you, you will get nowhere!

You have to replace victimhood with a willingness to be emotionally vulnerable. Vulnerability feels frightening and risky, but it's where you must go.

 

[berlinale]

Watch out for the Yes, But... " responses, @berlinale!

Try rewriting this response without the "but" or anything that is essentially the same as a "But" (phrases like "it's just that..." for exsmple".

This is your brain on TMS. You ask for feedback. You receive feedback. You are a goodist, you want to be polite, so you express agreement with or gratefulness for the feedback - and then you turn around and reject the feedback, because your TMS brain has you in the grip of resistance, and possibly victimhood.

You've got to break this cycle or, I guarantee you, you will get nowhere!

You have to replace victimhood with a willingness to be emotionally vulnerable. Vulnerability feels frightening and risky, but it's where you must go.

Thanks a lot. I appreciate your feedback. But I do not think it is fair to say that I rejected the feedback as i was only saying that i struggle to implement it. But maybe this is language problem as english is not my native language.

i understand that i need to get rid of the resistance and i am totally willing to work on this. the question is how facilitate this process when just saying it does not do the job for me.

 

[Cactusflower]

the question is how facilitate this process when just saying it does not do the job for me.

This is very common, especially at the beginning of your journey to learn the skills for TMS work. The brain rejects it. It is new, and so different, and it is not yet part of your belief set way, deep in the mind.
So patience and kindness to yourself.
Set a schedule to do the work, that is task oriented such as journaling. I started my day with it, to clear my head. It was hard, but I wanted to find quiet time, safe time where nobody will disturb you or question what you are doing. At times, when I would write, in about 10 minutes my mind would want me to get up, or I'd get very itchy, start sneezing, be cold ... it was all the mind trying to do ANYTHING else but the work. So I would sit for my 20 minutes and do the work. If nothing came to mind, I would put on the paper "There is nothing to write" over and over and finally something would come up.
After many months (about a year), I was able to journal when I felt like it. Now I do it rarely, as I learned to do the work in my head. Some people always need to journal - whatever works for each person.
As to doing the other TMS work that is your mindset, or outcome independence, you need to reinforce the behavior you want to see in yourself. This is simply learning new habits and takes mind training like learning any new task does. So every time you can take your mind away from obsessive thinking, reward yourself "wow, great job!", and be honest "this work is hard, but you are doing great". When you struggle, just be kind and recognize that this moment is simply not the moment it's going to happen. There are 86400 seconds in a day, so you have plenty of opportunity. This is not a race, there is no good or bad, there is nobody watching or judging you ...only you. Be kind. It takes some people a day, some people a week, some people a month, some people many months, some people many years.... it does not matter.

 

[berlinale]

thanks a lot, that is very helpful. can you recommend a good article / book etc. about journaling? I have gone through the Alan Gordon's program the last few days and I also read his book, but he is not really talking about it much.

 

[Cactusflower]

@berlinale
The other free program here called the SEP teaches journaling. You can also read about it here: https://www.yourbreakawake.com/journalspeak (JournalSpeak | BreakAwake by Nicole Sachs)

 

[feduccini]

i was only saying that i struggle to implement it

The thing about "outcome independency" is that although it's an amazing tool, it's also hard to implement and may create pressure on yourself.
From what I've seen on success stories, people finally reach it when they're really close to healing.

I think once you've understood what TMS is, the foundation of this healing is self-compassion and emotion release.