1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this link: http://go.tmswiki.org/newprogram
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A word about outcome independence

Discussion in 'Alan Gordon TMS Recovery Program' started by Alan Gordon LCSW, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I think "outcome independence" is more about adopting an attitude of indifference to whether or no the pain goes away, staying in the moment without anticipating some time in the future when the pain will resolve itself.
     
    westb, Ollin, suky and 1 other person like this.
  2. Kozas

    Kozas Peer Supporter

    I think that's great attitude to any pain, even if it's something structural. Question is, how to do it, when pain grabs you attention so effectively... I feel like everytime I'm trying to be indifferent it's just 'trying' and not a genuine feeling. How can I be indifferent when being pain free is something I so badly want? Trying to be indifferent feels like a lying to myself...
     
  3. Dorado

    Dorado Beloved Grand Eagle

    @Kozas, you have to remember that the mind-body connection, which can cause endless symptoms including (but certainly not limited to) pain, is a normal part of life every single soul on this planet faces to some degree: eyes twitching after a stressful work deadline, headaches while fighting with a relative, turning pale when upset, etc. It's important to view the symptoms as temporary and accept that they will go away when your nervous system has had a chance to calm down.

    I've posted a success story detailing how I got rid of an incredibly long list of symptoms. However, I'm having a medical procedure soon (for a non-TMS issue that is completely unrelated to any symptoms I've posted about on these forums), and I've been stressed out about it. Because of this, I've been experiencing joint pain, muscle soreness, and anxiety. The joints in my fingers felt so sore while I was typing at work today and it got to the point where the discomfort was feeling awful, but I had to remind myself that it's from stress and that it would eventually end. And it did. This is a stark contrast from two years ago when the symptoms would go on for months and months on end because I couldn't accept the symptoms and feared and obsessed over them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  4. Kozas

    Kozas Peer Supporter

    I understand that but I have problems since early 20's and I don't know anyone who is in such pain as myself. Surely there are some that don't want to speak about it, but being nearly disabled in your 20's is not normal. Besides all that happened after long use of antibiotics(for acne) and I always blamed that on my problems. Although some of my problems(teeth sensitivity and constant pain) are rather not linked to any use of antibiotics(maybe fluoroquilones? But I've never used them anyway).
    How can I view symptoms as temporary if I feel them every second of my life in last 8 years? It seems like feeling normal was temporary for me, and pain is all that awaits me, it's like diabetics. Once you get diabetes something switch in your body, and your never the same.
    In last year I found some methods to cope like meditation and positive thinking and visualisation, but all those only helps me better function and alleviates depression but does nothing absolutely nothing to physical symptoms. I don't feel even 1% better after months of tms aproach. It's not like I will stop it, as I don't have anything left to try, I've tried classical medicine and alternative(accupuncture etc) for last 7 years, so tms can be my last station in trying to help myself
     
  5. RonnieTL

    RonnieTL New Member

    Thank you for the great article. I am on day 29 of the Educational Program and feeling that I have not made much progress. Much of my shoulder and neck pain comes at night. It wakes me up with the throbbing and pain. I readjust my sleeping position, go back to sleep and get woken up two hours later with the pain. Does anyone have any recommendations on how to deal with ignoring pain when it wakes me up?
     
  6. Karim

    Karim New Member

    What if you go to the gym, you do sports and still you have chronic pain widespread arms and legs for 10 yrs 24 7 and you are not afraid or fear doing any activity since nothing produces the pain the pain is noy broughy by fear of movement or movement , i was diagnosed with crps / rsd and i do everything a normal person does but with pain, i became intolerant to heat and cant do sports like before because my body heats so much i feel suffocation . I must be in mindfullness 24 7 lol i dont understand i can understand that this will work for dome who has ocassional pain by certain movements and positions but mine is all the time. What should i do?????????????
     
  7. TG957

    TG957 Well known member

    Karim, I recovered from CRPS, I had constant neuropathic pain in hands and arms, spreading to shoulder blades and to legs. I was lucky to have found Sarno 6 months after the symptoms appeared, so my brain was able to unlearn the pain signals fairly quickly. I came to understanding is that my CRPS is caused by the distress of the nervous system and my solution was meditation, qi gong and yoga. I was pain free within about a year, but then I spent another almost a year dealing with dystonia (involuntary contraction of the muscles). I am pain-free and no longer have dystonia. You can do it, too. But you have to take mindfulness seriously and work on relaxing your nervous system. With 10 years of CRPS it is likely to be a very hard and long journey, but you can do it. Best of luck!
     
    Forest and JanAtheCPA like this.
  8. Karim

    Karim New Member

    My worst symptom isn't pain Is dizziness woozziness my neck AND ears get red i feel like my horas AND black of my horas are boiling AND suffocating. I can't excercise for a long periodo of Time cause i get diZzy AND red hot. I am afrId it night be some serious health issue
     
  9. Karim

    Karim New Member

    I need help i have all books bit i dont know if i have some serious disorder that hasnt been ruled out
     
  10. Karim

    Karim New Member

    I tried mindfulnesa but ir worsens my simptoms AND panics
     
  11. TG957

    TG957 Well known member

    This is exactly an indication that you have TMS. Explosion of anxiety and pain is very typical reaction of the brain. Keep meditating, it is working for you. If I was able to meditate for 45 minutes or more in one sitting, next day I felt better.
     
  12. Karim

    Karim New Member

    I have pppd postural persistente perceptual dizziness
     
  13. Karim

    Karim New Member

    My crps started a month after a car accidente
     
  14. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    The problem is that we are not medical professionals here, so we don't know either. All new concerns must be checked out by a qualified medical professional before you can proceed to do the TMS work.

    IF you truly believe that you have TMS, you have to do the work. Just reading the books is not enough. Listen carefully to episode 85 of The Mind and Fitness Podcast, which is an hour long interview with Dr Schubiner, who specifically addresses the problem of being stuck.

    It's really important to understand that you can't do the work without commitment and belief.
     
  15. Karim

    Karim New Member

    How would i know i have done Lots of tests during 10 yrs AND no one knows some ir my friend doctors AND a funcional neurologist that Is my friend Said thatIs my sympathetic nervous sistem that Is on high
     
  16. TG957

    TG957 Well known member

    Your friend is right. Your nervous system is overstressed. Once you start getting diagnoses like PPPD, it is all coming from the nervous system. You need to heal it.
     
  17. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    You should know by now that you are suffering from conditions created by your fearful brain, not by a disease. Everything you have told us indicates this to be the case, but you are allowing your fearful brain to ignore the truth about reality.

    You are engaging in what we call Reassurance-Seeking, which is an endless cycle of not believing what you've been told. This leads you to keep seeking new doctors and getting new tests and coming on forums like this, telling us all the details of your symptoms, but not listening to what people are telling you.

    I don't blame you, I blame your brain and your fear.

    You have ignored all of @TG957's good advice. All you do is continue to list symptoms and diagnoses which are clearly mind-body conditions. You have to stop doing that. And you MUST do the deep, honest, and perhaps scary emotional work that you have been avoiding.
     
  18. Karim

    Karim New Member

    Am not ignoring he only suffered for 6 months compared to me, i am not afr aíd of pain cause i do weights y played basketball i dont do it now cause i torned my ACL ligament. I acepted the pain AND went On with my life but it never went away it only diminished AND i wasn't afraid of it. Why it didn't go? Pain un fore
     
  19. TG957

    TG957 Well known member

    It didn't go away because you accepted pain and agreed that it will be with you for the rest of your life. You can change it if you agree with Jan and me, but you keep fighting with us instead of accepting that problem is in your brain. I told you it would be hard to beat it. The choice is yours.
     
  20. Karim

    Karim New Member

    Ir i excercise AND my body heats un a Way that i almost can't breath what should i do, keep pushing my body to see if i end up un the ER? Cause no one mentions this heat intolerance suffocating symptom that tour chest AND neck get red AND face
     

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