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Worsening Symptoms and Doubt

warren23 said:
Jan - thanks for that information. Because the forum is far less active than it used to be, I have been searching the archives by user names for folks that have healed (like you, RogueWave, Tennis Tom, Baseball65, Balto, miffbunny, etc.) I noticed that most of these posters have left the forum years ago, so I can't solicit their feedback now. It sounds like posts prior to 2012 will not show-up here?

Also, why is the forum less active - where did everyone go??
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I think it used to come up in the search engines a lot more in the past.
Now you have people going to places like (ugh) Reddit and Facebook groups rather than forums.

I personally think it would get more traction if it went back to being niche focused on the Sarno slice rather than trying to be all things Mind Body. There are a zillion Mind Body resources, versus almost no Sarno focused guidance except here.
 
JanAtheCPA said:
You're still looking for someone else to save you. This is your brain on TMS, distracting you from doing your own emotional work. The truth about reality is that you are accomplishing nothing. TMS wins again.

There's no need to increase traffic here, and we don't have the infrastructure to handle it, so please do not do that, guys. That's very self-serving if you step back and look at the bigger picture which I understand is difficult when you are suffering. But here's another harsh truth: You're both just hoping that increased traffic will attract or generate the source of your magical solution.

Most people who recover eventually get back to their lives and move on. This is normal. A few of us are retired, and have an inclination to serve. A few are not retired and still choose to be here to serve. I suspect that we are all the type of people who have always found ways to volunteer our time and skills to help others, and we just happened to find a niche here that serves our desire to be of service. But we will all eventually move on in one way or another.

My story is just one of many. I had an entire career that was devoted to being of service to others, and it was very difficult to give up that aspect of my tax practice, but I was getting too old for the stress imposed by the compliance. I came across an article many years ago, from the Wall Street Journal I think, about how CPAs are like therapists. That's probably why I landed here, immediately started participating and why I stayed. It's not the only volunteer work that I do, although at age 75 I have cut back. That's just one story. Every one will be different.

The bottom line is that there's sonething about the environment that Forest created here that lends itself to a very high quality of empathy in our interactions, which is not easy to achieve in an anonymous and essentially totally free environment.
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Well said!
 
JanAtheCPA said:
That's very self-serving if you step back and look at the bigger picture which I understand is difficult when you are suffering. But here's another harsh truth: You're both just hoping that increased traffic will attract or generate the source of your magical solution.
Click to expand...
It isnt self serving at all. There is an incredible amount of chronic pain subreddits. I want them to know the truth. Its bizarre to me so many people are on the wrong path in their recovery. I know its impossible to convince these people but with some natural traffic from Reddit we could reach more people. I’m not saying i want them to come here, but id like to provide a space thats easy to find. I know the subreddit would probably get flooded with frustrated chronic pain sufferers who will say that were full of shit, but I’d still want to help them
 
Mani said:
It isnt self serving at all. There is an incredible amount of chronic pain subreddits. I want them to know the truth. Its bizarre to me so many people are on the wrong path in their recovery. I know its impossible to convince these people but with some natural traffic from Reddit we could reach more people. I’m not saying i want them to come here, but id like to provide a space thats easy to find. I know the subreddit would probably get flooded with frustrated chronic pain sufferers who will say that were full of shit, but I’d still want to help them
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It's best if you feel the need to try and convert people to do so over there (Reddit). People seems to come over here when they are more ready to give it a chance.
I know it's hard to see people suffering unnecessarily.
 
yeah im not trying to forcibly convert anyone but id like chronic pain sufferers to see our posts on their reddit feed so they know whats possible. Going over there and telling then its in their head — yeah thats not the way
 
"versus almost no Sarno focused guidance except here."

That is simply not true. There are MANY facebook groups and specialty (not on social media) groups run by TMS pros who are direct protogee's of Dr. Sarno. They have used current science to expand on his theories. That doesn't make their current work bad or wrong. Dr. Sarno had lifelong contact with these people (most of whom he either tutored or were his patients at some point) who usually ran their ideas and theories by him. Dr. Schecter has said Sarno would often disagree until some data or studies were offered to him, and he would change his mind.
I think we've formed ideas on Sarno based on the work of his books - but he lived for 20 years after their publication and was privvy to some of the new and emerging science.
 
Mani said:
It isnt self serving at all. There is an incredible amount of chronic pain subreddits. I want them to know the truth. Its bizarre to me so many people are on the wrong path in their recovery. I know its impossible to convince these people but with some natural traffic from Reddit we could reach more people. I’m not saying i want them to come here, but id like to provide a space thats easy to find. I know the subreddit would probably get flooded with frustrated chronic pain sufferers who will say that were full of shit, but I’d still want to help them
Click to expand...
JanAtheCPA said:
You're still looking for someone else to save you. This is your brain on TMS, distracting you from doing your own emotional work. The truth about reality is that you are accomplishing nothing. TMS wins again.

There's no need to increase traffic here, and we don't have the infrastructure to handle it, so please do not do that, guys. That's very self-serving if you step back and look at the bigger picture which I understand is difficult when you are suffering. But here's another harsh truth: You're both just hoping that increased traffic will attract or generate the source of your magical solution.

Most people who recover eventually get back to their lives and move on. This is normal. A few of us are retired, and have an inclination to serve. A few are not retired and still choose to be here to serve. I suspect that we are all the type of people who have always found ways to volunteer our time and skills to help others, and we just happened to find a niche here that serves our desire to be of service. But we will all eventually move on in one way or another.

My story is just one of many. I had an entire career that was devoted to being of service to others, and it was very difficult to give up that aspect of my tax practice, but I was getting too old for the stress imposed by the compliance. I came across an article many years ago, from the Wall Street Journal I think, about how CPAs are like therapists. That's probably why I landed here, immediately started participating and why I stayed. It's not the only volunteer work that I do, although at age 75 I have cut back. That's just one story. Every one will be different.

The bottom line is that there's sonething about the environment that Forest created here that lends itself to a very high quality of empathy in our interactions, which is not easy to achieve in an anonymous and essentially totally free environment.
Click to expand...


I agree with you that I am still looking for someone else to save me. Pain has a way of warping my thinking process, but you make a very good point.

On the other hand, I think it’s harsh and inaccurate to say it’s self serving, unless you think everyone who came before me is self serving, too. People come here hoping to learn and get input - if you consider that self serving, I’m not sure what to say.
 
Cactusflower said:
"versus almost no Sarno focused guidance except here."

That is simply not true. There are MANY facebook groups and specialty (not on social media) groups run by TMS pros who are direct protogee's of Dr. Sarno. They have used current science to expand on his theories. That doesn't make their current work bad or wrong. Dr. Sarno had lifelong contact with these people (most of whom he either tutored or were his patients at some point) who usually ran their ideas and theories by him. Dr. Schecter has said Sarno would often disagree until some data or studies were offered to him, and he would change his mind.
I think we've formed ideas on Sarno based on the work of his books - but he lived for 20 years after their publication and was privvy to some of the new and emerging science.
Click to expand...


Okay, thanks. I'm a little behind the times on what's out there now. :)
 
warren23 said:
what are the 5 whys?
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It's a business problem solving technique. It's used for root cause analysis so that rather than trying to solve the surface level problem, you get to the root of the issue so that the problem doesn't keep cropping up. Basically you define the problem you want to solve and then just keep asking why 5 times. Supposedly by the time you get to the 5th one you will have the real issue causing the problem.

In business it looks something like this:

Problem: The team keeps missing project deadlines.

  1. Why? Tasks are taking longer than expected.

  2. Why? Team members often get stuck waiting for approvals.

  3. Why? Only one person is authorized to approve key decisions.

  4. Why? The approval process was never updated as the team grew.

  5. Why? Because no one was assigned responsibility for reviewing and improving workflows.
Root Cause: No ownership of process improvement → outdated approval workflow → bottlenecks → delays.

Solution: Assign a process owner and update the approval workflow so multiple people can authorize decisions


A more TMS-y example might be:


Problem: I get pain when I have to go out to an important event.

  1. Why? Because my body suddenly tenses up before I leave.

  2. Why? Because I start worrying about how the event will go and whether I’ll handle everything well.

  3. Why? Because important events feel like high‑stakes situations where I need to “show up” perfectly.

  4. Why? Because I’m afraid of being judged, disappointing someone, or not having control over how things unfold.

  5. Why? Because I learned early on that being accepted or valued depends on performing well and not making mistakes.
Root Cause: A deep belief that “I must perform perfectly to be okay” → anticipatory stress → nervous system activation → tension → pain.

Solution: Practice small moments of grounding or self‑permission before events — not to “fix” the pain, but to shift the underlying pressure to perform.


I do it all more informally like the example I mentioned above that landed on "Mummy will be mad at me!"
 
warren23 said:
I agree with you that I am still looking for someone else to save me. Pain has a way of warping my thinking process, but you make a very good point.
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I think everyone who has TMS is looking for HOW to get better. And since there’s no definitive way to get better (it’s different for everybody) we all just try to get our bearings, and that requires exploring what those who have gone before us know. Also, to hear success stories and tips from those who have healed is priceless. I don’t think this is looking for someone to save you. I also think coaching is helpful, just like it is for athletes. Mentors and programs can help. But the most important thing you need is to find the METHOD(s) that work for you, and stick with them. And don’t give up on them prematurely.
 
JanAtheCPA said:
The bottom line is that there's sonething about the environment that Forest created here that lends itself to a very high quality of empathy in our interactions, which is not easy to achieve in an anonymous and essentially totally free environment.
Click to expand...

This is very true and given what I've seen on Facebook, it can quickly become saturated and lose some positive aspects. This space is perfect in its size to ensure higher quality interactions in my opinion :)
 
warren23 said:
it’s harsh and inaccurate to say it’s self serving,
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I should have been more clear and reiterated that we are always talking about the the ways in which the TMS mechanism relentlessly serves its purposes. This kind of thing is not conscious - it's our brains on TMS. Always.
 
JanAtheCPA said:
I should have been more clear and reiterated that we are always talking about the the ways in which the TMS mechanism relentlessly serves its purposes. This kind of thing is not conscious - it's our brains on TMS. Always.
Click to expand...

Jan - TMS Brain? Curious what you specifically mean, though I probably have an idea.
 
warren23 said:
Also, why is the forum less active - where did everyone go??
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Wow, i’m very surprised by this statement because i’m floored by how active the forum is. Perhaps i have this impression because i click on the “all recent threads” on the blue bar at the top of the posts. There are so many people giving feedback, discussing the feedback that’s been given, linking to previous posts, and linking to external resources. I could easily spend all day and all night just trying to keep up and absorb it all.
I agree with whomever said it earlier, people will find this wiki when they are ready to really do the work of going into the mind part of mindbody. Just look at how many people are on this site struggling with that first hurdle! I know i did and it wouldn’t have done me much good to have gotten into the site and not read sarno book(s). It seems to me that if a sarno book doesn’t make sense then this site won’t help.
 
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