Worsening Symptoms and Doubt

[warren23]

Hello all - I have spent hours reading some of the incredibly insightful posts and recovery stories on this board, so I thought I would ask for feedback from the community here.

I continue to struggle with very painful sciatic pain despite having worked with four TMS coaches in individual sessions, participated in groups with Dan Buglio and Dan Ratner, watched thousands of videos, and read or reread many TMS books.

I was able to use Sarno's teachings in the past to successfully resolve back pain many years ago and to fully resolve terrifying GI symptoms in 2022–2023, as well as other symptoms. I resolved my GI symptoms after an "A-ha" moment that my body was truly OK. Fortunately, I did no medical testing and fully overcame this awful symptom with the help of an incredible mind-body PT in Boulder, CO, named Charlie Merrill. The key was the realization that my body was OK, not resolving an underlying repressed emotion.

Shortly thereafter, I developed sciatica, and I have not been able to resolve the pain over the past two-plus years. Many prior medical tests suggest this pain could be due to nerve compression at L5-S1, or possibly spinal stenosis. However, Charlie and Dr. Schubiner reviewed my MRI/X-rays and don't think this explains the pain, which made me feel much better.

For the last 15 months, I have been working intensely with Dan Ratner and his Columns approach. I have participated in his groups and even had individual sessions. I have really dug into my emotional traumas and worked very hard on my doubts—both about my body and about whether "I can do it." However, the only time I consistently improved was in the fall of 2025, after an epidural injection. A second one in December 2025 failed to bring any relief.

I had very high hopes for the work with Dan, but now my symptoms are often worse than ever. He thinks I am listening to doubt, which I believe is true. However, I am completely stuck and not improving using his Columns system. He also thinks I am going through the "heart of darkness" in my emotional processing of past traumas from my horrific childhood and has led to worsening symptoms.

I am going to try EMDR, but something is not working!!! I would appreciate any thoughts the community has.

 

[Rabscuttle]

Sometimes I think being so immersed in this mindbody world can be a bit of this double edged sword. Sure, the support of a coach, or the inspiration from a success story can inspire. But it can also put a lot of pressure on us, and increase the stakes and the thoughts of what am I missing, why am I broken, what’s different about my situation.

Honestly I think after a certain point you need to ask yourself, what is the coaching accomplishing? Because beyond acquiring the additional foundational knowledge I imagine there’s a desperation building and handing over some of your agency to someone who you’re hoping can fix you or giving you the perfect path for how to fix yourself.

what are your thoughts like on a daily basis, how are you treating yourself, how are you reacting to the symptoms?

I’ve found non guided spiritual based meditation very helpful in terms of breaking destructive thought patterns and actually getting me to examine how I’m living. Not that I’m perfect, but I’m way more aware and catch myself way sooner when I’m living and thinking in a way that is conducive to the generation of severe symptoms.

 

[warren23]

I appreciate your feedback Rabscuttle, and you make good points. I have recently wondered what, if anything, I am accomplishing at this point with coaching. You are correct - my desperation to get better is increasing, because I have been at this a long time and not improved. I find myself obsessed with my symptoms because they hurt so badly at times. I also have a lot of fear about my symptoms because of the intensity of the pain.

Part of the problem now in the work with Dan is I am blaming myself for listening to my doubts, yet I don't know how to stop it. I feel completely stuck right now.

 

[Rabscuttle]

You have a history of TMS. Dr. Schubiner has said that your diagnostics don’t explain your symptoms. If I were in your shoes, I’d stop the coaching. I think you lack confidence in the TMS diagnosis due to the severity of the symptoms. But simultaneously youre putting unreal pressure on yourself to find some holy grail aha moment, some nugget from the past that needs processing. I think lots of people get lost in the sauce with concepts like trauma, and repressed emotions and their processing. Meanwhile our day to day our lives are utter shit because of the symptoms and our reaction to the them and then our projection of our shitty present into the future. The past is done, you clearly already have the TMS foundation, you clearly put work into addressing the past and emotions. Let. It. Go. Stop looking outward for answers, stop looking to coaches, honestly I even think emdr in your state of desperation is a bad idea and will just lead to a deeper hole when it inevitably doesn’t move the needle.

how can you treat yourself better, how can you find more joy in the present and start believing that things can be good in the future. Take a break from all this TMS stuff and dive into meditation and spirituality, it did wonders for me. Spirituality isn’t some woo woo term, it’s about connecting with our higher selves and believing that there’s more to reality than just this physical mess we are dealing with. Connect with god. Find some hope.

you need to believe you deserve better than this and take some agency back. I train dogs, and if I feel I’m not helpful after a month or two I let the people know and make recommendations for who they should see. I’d hope a coach in this space would have enough humility to say that a different approach is needed (especially after 1.5 years) than just saying vague shit like heart of darkness. I know nothing about Dan Ratner, so I’m probably being cruel.

 

[warren23]

You have a history of TMS. Dr. Schubiner has said that your diagnostics don’t explain your symptoms. If I were in your shoes, I’d stop the coaching. I think you lack confidence in the TMS diagnosis due to the severity of the symptoms. But simultaneously your putting unreal pressure on yourself to find some holy grail aha moment, some nugget from the past that needs processing. I think lots of people get lost in the sauce with concepts like trauma, and repressed emotions and their processing. Meanwhile our day to day our lives are utter shit because of the symptoms and our reaction to the them and then our projection of our shitty present into the future. The past is done, you clearly already have the TMS foundation, you clearly put work into addressing the past and emotions. Let. It. Go. Stop looking outward for answers, stop looking to coaches, honestly I even think emdr in your state of desperation is a bad idea and will just lead to a deeper hole when it inevitably doesn’t move the needle.

how can you treat yourself better, how can you find more joy in the present and start believing that things can be good in the future. Take a break from all this TMS stuff and dive into meditation and spirituality, it did wonders for me. Spirituality isn’t some woo woo term, it’s about connecting with our higher selves and believing that there’s more to reality than just this physical mess we are dealing with. Connect with god. Find some hope.

you need to believe you deserve better than this and take some agency back. I train dogs, and if I feel I’m not helpful after a month or two I let the people know and make recommendations for who they should see. I’d hope a coach in this space would have enough humility to say that a different approach is needed (especially after 1.5 years) than just saying vague shit like heart of darkness. I know nothing about Dan Ratner, so I’m probably being cruel.

Thanks for your thoughts, and I do agree a different approach for me is needed. I have done some very good doubt and emotional work with Dan, but it has not resulted in the symptoms getting better, hence the need for a new approach. From what I read on this site and elsewhere, and my own experience, I strongly believe the best option for me is a straight-line Sarno approach. To be fair to Dan Ratner, he's a devout believer in Sarno, has written a book called "Crushing Doubt", is President of the ATNS Board, and has helped thousands of people overcome Mindbody symptoms.

How are you doing in relation to your Mindbody symptoms?

 

[Rabscuttle]

Thanks for your thoughts, and I do agree a different approach for me is needed. I have done some very good doubt and emotional work with Dan, but it has not resulted in the symptoms getting better, hence the need for a new approach. From what I read on this site and elsewhere, and my own experience, I strongly believe the best option for me is a straight-line Sarno approach. To be fair to Dan Ratner, he's a devout believer in Sarno, has written a book called "Crushing Doubt", is President of the ATNS Board, and has helped thousands of people overcome Mindbody symptoms.

How are you doing in relation to your Mindbody symptoms?

progressing I suppose, back to work full time, can exercise how I want, speak how I want, eat a wide varied diet. A pretty huge improvement from being close to suicide back in January.

Well I wish you luck in whatever you choose. I hope you’ll keep the option of meditation and spirituality open. There’s a reason a lot of TMS coaches today are borrowing concepts from eastern philosophies like Buddhism or Hinduism, and repackaging them to align with TMS. They work, and they are very helpful in navigating this modern reality that can be very dread inducing, especially when it is piled on top of our own past and traumas.

 

[warren23]

progressing I suppose, back to work full time, can exercise how I want, speak how I want, eat a wide varied diet. A pretty huge improvement from being close to suicide back in January.

Well I wish you luck in whatever you choose. I hope you’ll keep the option of meditation and spirituality open. There’s a reason a lot of TMS coaches today are borrowing concepts from eastern philosophies like Buddhism or Hinduism, and repackaging them to align with TMS. They work, and they are very helpful in navigating this modern reality that can be very dread inducing, especially when it is piled on top of our own past and traumas.

Rabscuttle - that's great! To what do you attribute your improvement?

 

[Rabscuttle]

Rabscuttle - that's great! To what do you attribute your improvement?

Meditation, spirituality, conscious decisions to treat myself better and let go of the past and ruminating thoughts. Detaching from the physical, understanding there is nothing to be gained by obsessing about physical sensations.

honestly I’ve been a broken fucking person and the whole Sarno this is about repressed rage or emotions never really resonated with me, and I did go that route. Did the bulk of the SEP, I tried a month of journal speak twice. I really regret digging up the past. Made me super resentful and I’d walk around bitter and wanting to fight people. I don’t think it’s talked about enough in the space how damaging constant rumination is. At a certain point we need to let go of shit. Because if we’re just in a loop of thinking the same awful thoughts and feeling the same emotions, what is changing?

spirituality, belief in god shed my destructive nihilism that had infected every part of my life. I’ve just begun to start loving myself, because I deserve better than treating myself like complete and utter trash (which literally every tmser does but most don’t see the extent because they’re so out of touch with their inner worlds). To give an example of what meditation did for me, I picked the skin on my hands and feet (dermatillomania- an ocd variant) to the point where the skin would be red and raw everyday for 26 years, since first grade, I’m 32 now. After 3 months of meditation, I stopped picking in March 2026 and haven’t done it since.

things are by no means perfect, I have so many things I still need to address, but I’m clearly trending up.

if I were to talk to my February 2025 self (when I became TMS aware) I’d tell them read a Sarno book, follow Dan Buglio’s appproach and start meditating to connect with god and start loving myself.

 

[Cactusflower]

I am going to try EMDR, but something is not working!!! I would appreciate any thoughts the community has.

Question about EMDR: how long have you been working through it and how often in between your sessions?
I had an excellent EMDR therapist who explained a lot of what works for her clients. She did not at all recommend it for working through physical symptoms, but suggested it would help end the mental and emotional suffering = constant anxiety. Which it absolutely did.

 

[Diana-M]

@warren23
I really sympathize with your frustration. I have had a similar journey in many ways. I was able to get rid of symptoms in 2017 by following Sarno. Only to have more and tougher symptoms return a number of years later. I think the biggest mistake we all make is assuming that there is a single key that will unlock the door. I don’t even think Sarno assumes that for many people. Sometimes it’s many things that heal you. And more importantly, it takes time. As it turns out for me, all the things I’ve learned over the past 4 years with symptoms are starting to add up and work together. So don’t consider anything you’ve done to be a waste. It might work together in a harmonious way. But I do agree with @Rabscuttle that staying in the past and digging through old wounds and histories can sometimes make you worse. There comes a point where that’s just no longer productive. And I also agree that a spiritual aspect to healing is beneficial.

 

[warren23]

Question about EMDR: how long have you been working through it and how often in between your sessions?
I had an excellent EMDR therapist who explained a lot of what works for her clients. She did not at all recommend it for working through physical symptoms, but suggested it would help end the mental and emotional suffering = constant anxiety. Which it absolutely did.

Cactus - I am just starting with EMDR, but really like the therapist. In addition to helping you with your anxiety, has EMDR helped you reduce with your TMS symptoms? I am not counting on that, and we’ll see how this goes.

 

[warren23]

@warren23
I really sympathize with your frustration. I have had a similar journey in many ways. I was able to get rid of symptoms in 2017 by following Sarno. Only to have more and tougher symptoms return a number of years later. I think the biggest mistake we all make is assuming that there is a single key that will unlock the door. I don’t even think Sarno assumes that for many people. Sometimes it’s many things that heal you. And more importantly, it takes time. As it turns out for me, all the things I’ve learned over the past 4 years with symptoms are starting to add up and work together. So don’t consider anything you’ve done to be a waste. It might work together in a harmonious way. But I do agree with @Rabscuttle that staying in the past and digging through old wounds and histories can sometimes make you worse. There comes a point where that’s just no longer productive. And I also agree that a spiritual aspect to healing is beneficial.

Diane - thank you for your comments. I actually believe I may have to use these coaches and therapists to get to a place where I can get better myself. There will never enough coaches/therapists to do for me what I have to do for myself.

 

[Cactusflower]

Cactus - I am just starting with EMDR, but really like the therapist. In addition to helping you with your anxiety, has EMDR helped you reduce with your TMS symptoms? I am not counting on that, and we’ll see how this goes.

No, EMDR did not help with my symptoms.
My therapist was clear that it is not a method used for physical symptoms. "Other Symptoms" of tms are things like anxiety, depression, disassociation, depersonalization - temporary states of mental confusion, brain fog, - these things were all helped by the EMDR. We would do blocks of sessions - every week for 3 months with 3 weeks off (to see how the mind and brain are doing with all this behind the scenes work). Then every 2nd week for 6 months with two weeks off. Every 2nd week for a few months and then two months off (which included holidays, since that was another measure of how well things were going). We left it with I can go back any time needed for a "touch up". Not only was EMDR helpful, I found the entire method fascinating. Because I had had physical symptoms with my eyes, we did not do much eye movement as such - little things like that can be discussed with the therapist. We used some buzzers (my eyes closed still moved back and forth with this) and then we simply used tapping on the knees so that I could utilize the method at home on my own at anytime I wished.

I hope you find as much benefit as I did.

 

[warren23]

No, EMDR did not help with my symptoms.
My therapist was clear that it is not a method used for physical symptoms. "Other Symptoms" of tms are things like anxiety, depression, disassociation, depersonalization - temporary states of mental confusion, brain fog, - these things were all helped by the EMDR. We would do blocks of sessions - every week for 3 months with 3 weeks off (to see how the mind and brain are doing with all this behind the scenes work). Then every 2nd week for 6 months with two weeks off. Every 2nd week for a few months and then two months off (which included holidays, since that was another measure of how well things were going). We left it with I can go back any time needed for a "touch up". Not only was EMDR helpful, I found the entire method fascinating. Because I had had physical symptoms with my eyes, we did not do much eye movement as such - little things like that can be discussed with the therapist. We used some buzzers (my eyes closed still moved back and forth with this) and then we simply used tapping on the knees so that I could utilize the method at home on my own at anytime I wished.

I hope you find as much benefit as I did.

Thanks Cactus - very helpful to hear how EMDR helped you. How are you doing with your TMS symptoms?

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

You are correct - my desperation to get better is increasing, because I have been at this a long time and not improved. I find myself obsessed with my symptoms because they hurt so badly at times. I also have a lot of fear about my symptoms because of the intensity of the pain.

You're correct that only you have the key to an extent - but that doesn't mean there can't be some troubleshooting.

Obviously Dr Schubiner (and Charlie - Charlie's great and so is Dan) telling you that it's TMS is the holy grail of evidence, but is there more on your evidence list? Have you been able to link the symptoms to emotional triggers? What I would do is make a list next to the evidence list like a doubt list, all the reasons why I am doubting that there's nothing wrong with me. Then I would logically destroy that list using my evidence list. Perhaps you don't have enough evidence yet to fully do that, and that's ok, it builds throughout the journey.

Do you feel like you need more general evidence that TMS can cause that level of symptoms? Because it can, in fact Dr Sarno said that he had never found anything in medicine (anything structurally or biologically) that could cause the level of symptoms that TMS could, so if anything in a weird way it is evidence itself of TMS (after anything sinister is ruled out + after imaging has been reviewed).

When you get symptoms, does any part of you stop and reflect on your emotional state, or is it all focus on the symptoms and catastrophising on them?

Like @Rabscuttle alluded to, I'm confident for you in the sense that there's clear things to work on here to me - and once it clicks I think you'll on your way

 

[Cactusflower]

Thanks Cactus - very helpful to hear how EMDR helped you. How are you doing with your TMS symptoms?

I have gone from being bed bound and unable to walk or sit to being a very active person. I still have sensations but I live a pretty normal life. Occasionally anxiety or other non-pain sensations arise but they go quickly. I now have a disease (as in, it's not TMS) in the areas where I used to have the most pain, so it's been extra challenging but that's all part of the fun. I truly look at it as another means of personal growth.

 

[warren23]

I have gone from being bed bound and unable to walk or sit to being a very active person. I still have sensations but I live a pretty normal life. Occasionally anxiety or other non-pain sensations arise but they go quickly. I now have a disease (as in, it's not TMS) in the areas where I used to have the most pain, so it's been extra challenging but that's all part of the fun. I truly look at it as another means of personal growth.

Cactus - that’s amazing! What are your symptoms and how did you improve so dramatically?

 

[Fal]

Biggest advice is to stop putting pressure on yourself to be perfect, it is one realisation ive come to. Relax and just close your eyes and breath for a moment, meditation is great for it to just be present now .

 

[JanAtheCPA]

@warren23, I think that what @Rabscuttle is saying fits really well with this new thread about pessimism vs optimism - or the concept, which I have been referring to quite often very recently, as the importance of mindset:
https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threa...ive-to-a-positive-attitude.33701/#post-173210

And I see that you already saw and Liked another recent post, which I think is really relevant for those who find themselves stuck and returning to the same dynamic from childhood. Again - it's calling for a new mindset. Which takes a completely different kind of work:
https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threa...opinions-appreciated.20723/page-4#post-173033

 

[Booble]

I have really dug into my emotional traumas and worked very hard on my doubts

Warren, when you dug into your traumas, were you able to feel and express your anger about them? Like really allow yourself that anger and let your previous self that experienced the trauma get it all out? I think sometimes when a person works with a therapist they can identify, and discuss, and feel sad, and even a little bit mad about it but because they are with someone and have to be societally acceptable they aren't really expressing the anger in the fullest way. Especially if it's toward someone that you also love or are "supposed to" love. How would you say you've felt and expressed the anger on those traumas? If you were going to rate yourself on how much you felt and got that anger out on a scale of 1 - 10, where would you be?